I geeked out when I heard them huge fans kick on, the sound insane when the start. Got to love moden tech and what it can do for us. Thank you for the tour of the system.
Thanks for watching I hope you enjoyed this video I certainly enjoyed making it as I spent a lot of time over the last three or four months making this one I want to add all of the information in this video is just from my understanding I could have some details off I hope you enjoyed
Well done Nic. I love the "Hello fans" scene. Bet that musta felt good doing that on that super hot day. Those open doors are like a guide saying "here's the exit; come this way to safety"
Yeah! Not only do they help with pressurization, they also serve as extra convenient exit routes, since you don’t even have to open the doors: they’ve opened themselves!
I think these fans are integrated into the building management system for monitoring and control, these fans can be remotely override depends on the control panel selector switch for auto/manual. Building management system provides real time status of the equipment, these are all integrated into the fire alarm system. Thanks mate for this video.
These fans are strictly for emergency/life safety purposes and are not part of the DDC system they have no other purpose but to evacuate smoke in the atrium and stairwell
17:57 - The first time that I was watching this video, that exhaust fan startled me when it started… but hey that is certainly better then being turned into a smoothie! But nonetheless you did an amazing job making this demo video! Another thing… it’s like a disco party in the school with the unsynced horns and horn/strobes.
Wow that is a very sophisticated system and those fans are HUGE and scary but the amount of lives they would save would be beyond amazing however I wouldnt want to be locked in there when they start up nor be near the pressure fans either. Excellent video, well done 🎉
Nic, I absolutely adore and love your videos. I like to hear you explain how things work, generators, and fire alarms. Thank you for making awesome videos!
Interesting usually it’s only big buildings so makes sense none of our middle schools are big enough to have them as they don’t have any big atriums how many floors is the building and square feet if you know?
@@nics-systems-electric I would really enjoy seeing this with some industrial hazers/foggers so that the evacuation could be visualized. Chauvet makes inexpensive foggers of sufficient power. Something like the Hurricane 1600 would be sufficient, about $200 I believe. They use non-toxic glycerin/glycol based haze and are typically used in concert/night club settings. I use two during halloween. If I run them hard, I can fog up about half my street when the wind is relatively calm. Haha
@@SilentGloves that test that was done when the system was first verified when the building was completed. But I am not going to spend my personal money for a test of the schools system. It would be cool to see though.
That’s a really cool system! I’ve heard of systems like these before-and seen a few in action here on RU-vid-but I’ve never seen anyone explain how they work as well as you have here! One thing, though: if those fans are as powerful as you say, then they’re probably powerful enough to suck you right off your feet and STRAIGHT THROUGH THEM… Don’t get me wrong, this system is AWESOME! But after hearing “You don’t want your body in there with them unless you want to be turned into a smoothie,” I’ll probably be having nightmares about that exact scenario for the next few nights…
Thanks I'm glad you enjoyed the video as far as being in the room with them I think you might be OK if you were standing off to the side of them as there is no where for air to come in if you're standing on the side of the room opposite to the air intake however if you were standing in front of the louvres into the school you may be moved to in front of them and if you did get pulled in you would definitely not turn out well at least you have quite a bit of warning if they are going to go off as you will hear the fire alarms first and then the dampers opening
I'm thinking that the fans could be aerovent as I looked up for the aerovent fans, they have a similar design to those featured in this vid but I'm not sure about the brand of the fan room hood fan and the soffit fan but the soffit fan is likely a centrifugal fan as it does not have the loud sound of an axial fan
Wow! I’m glad your school has the system separated to only go off by smoke detectors. Our entire system goes off on every alarm. They want all the shutters and fire doors to close because they remain locked from one side in case a shooter pulls the alarm, this keeps them from getting further into the building, but I’m sure on a 3030 system there’s a way to close all the doors and shutters without setting off the smoke exhaust.
Yeah it wouldn’t really hurt anything by coming on on any alarm but just more unnecessary things operating which would be often times with all the false alarms that the school has
Now you’re talking my language! If we worked together I’d be the one who would have engineered these bad boys. What has my interest is how is the integration for the MUA get the E/E doors to open via the handicapped door opener when combined with the FA, access, & even other security measures? You’re also correct that there is always an on/off delay to allow for the situation of dampers as you eloquently explained. Nonetheless, in just trying to figure out how an output signal is sent via the FACP to the access control to the handicapped door in order for you to achieve MUA via the atrium doors. I’m speculating it’s just another module to integrate but it’s got my interest nevertheless! Also, how does this integrate with the BAS for the HVAC, ie is this yet another “path” it takes throughout this system in order for signals and commands to be sent, interpreted, and executed? I apologize if I’m asking a million questions but I have never personally had interaction when facing more than 3 systems and by my count you’re about 5 possibly? Regardless, well done and as an HVAC mechanical engineer, you knew what you spoke about and didn’t miss a beat! I’m in agreement with ya & proud of your aptitude. What I’d give for you to be with me cuz we’d have a blast for sure! 🤣😁. Have a good weekend & sorry to bother again!
No bother at all, thanks for the comment. I haven't got a ton of experience with these systems has not a lot of buildings have them around me so I can't speak as far as how common that is to have the handicap door openers used as make up air. In fact not all of the handicap door openers in this building are used for handicap purposes one set of them is only operated by the fire alarm system. I don't believe they are tied in to the security system at all. The system as a whole is almost all controlled by various fire alarm control modules mounted in the local location of what they are controlling that includes where they are tied in to the door openers.
I don't believe it has any integration into the rest of the DDC system. I could be wrong on this but I don't believe there is any HVAC shut down in this building as there are not any systems where air is taken from one and forced into another fire partition which is typically when shut down is required if air is being moved zone to zone as I'm sure you know
Sorry I answered in three comments I can only remember so many of the questions when I go to reply lol Either way I'm happy for the questions and glad you got something out of the video! If you don't mind me asking what is your title as you sound like you really know your stuff?
@@nics-systems-electric you don’t need to apologies at all. When you have Nic and Nik (2 “Nic(k)s”) and our brains, it will be a pleasant endeavour 😉. In other words I get it as multitasking is a must! Or just replying 3 times LOL. You’re the first other Nic I’ve ever (sorta) met LOL! Answering your question first & foremost, I’m a mechanical engineer specialized in HVAC and electrical up to 600V L-L delta/wye configs but pretty much stuck to the HVAC side. I began by being part of the Detroit revitalization and my portfolio consists of many multi-story rehabs & new construction as well as a handful of high rises. Most were commercial, some residential, all were “interesting” to say the least LOL. Boilers, centrifugal chillers, & air handlers are my thing but life safety comes in all stages and trades! Having to integrate FACPs with my HVAC BMS or other automations is when you need KNOWLEDGEABLE folks so you work hand-in-hand to get the job done effectively, efficiently, with pride & quality, and of course safely. Now I have 3 apartment communities and am comfortable but of course they always need attention and I won’t let folks live in trash! Don’t ask me to cut a 2x4 or carpentry as you’ll end up with a 10x16 somehow 😝😝. Hey can’t be good at everything right? So basically this is just a matter of following the routes & installing the proper equipment necessary to effectuate the desired outcomes, such as this MUA that has me excited in a way….. I won’t lie there was a reason & it’s bcuz that opening of E/E doors will solve a huge issue for me. My one building has 67 units and no windows open and is a residential setting. I can save a significant chunk of change if I could mimic those doors opening to serve as my MUA for the first floor without me having to add an additional mechanical AHU. This would allow me to just kick on the exhaust fan and the doors open and voila - make up air! No anything required major other than some wiring and programming. The current MUA only serves floors 2-4 and is multi-functional, ie it also heats and cools while ventilates but is NOT a “dedicated” exhaust setup for the FA - that became a secondary blessing and I’ll get into that at some other time as it’s a weird one….. But nonetheless, since that floor is served off the same AHU already and getting fresh air in is my issue, if I can trigger the doors??? Ohhh problem solved. That air handler is served by the boilers and chiller too so it’s always conditioning BUT in the event that the FA triggers, by specific smokes that is just like in this video or another one of the 50 I’ve watched today LOL, then it shuts off any conditioning and goes into pure exhaust mode at full speed with MUA coming from static ducts on each floor that have louvers that will open similarly to your setup. Actually Nic - i don’t know how to write privately in here but I’ll give you my email and once you have it, delete it, as it would be ten times easier to write that way. We can talk more in depth and so forth amongst ourselves when you’re able if you’re able that is. I know I have my HVAC where it would need to be to perform as such but it would be the nitty-gritty of FACP playing nice with Access & HVAC!!!!! 🤷🏻♂️😥. I have pics and videos galore but can’t send em here or I just don’t know how LOL!! But yeah thats where I am and I really think I can pull this off except I’m not as good on the FACP as you. FYI I have a silent knight 5820XL with (I think) 4 modules - one for each floor - and the sprinkler system is part of floor 1’s module. Yep I sprinklered the place alright! Safety first! And when I silence the strobes don’t stay blinking and the FD is griping over that yet in the programming they’re set to be sync’d during silence……. Well thats for another day I’ve already taken enough of your time. Shoot me an email and we’ll talk. I appreciate it Nic and hope you enjoy your Friday night Sir. Nik
Louvres and fans much less powerful fan compared to the smoke fans I believe they are part of the buildings normal HVAC system nothing to do with smoke control
They are somewhat uncommon for schools to have but lately in the last 10 years they have become a much more common thing in the high schools in my province as they are being built bigger and bigger with large multilevel atriums
So, the way you tested the system, if you set off one of the smoke detectors, will all of the intake/exhaust fans kick on, or will only the ones in the localised area that set the detector(s) off?
The smoke control system all the fans and doors is all or nothing as it's determined if they need to come on they will all come on it's just what actually activates them that can vary not all detectors will activate them
Many students at this school probably have no idea that the huge atrium that they have been in probably thousands of times has such a complex and powerful fan system.
@@nics-systems-electric They really are missing out on awesome stuff for sure. My old school had fans like that in a system of Wheelock NS horn/strobes.
@@nics-systems-electric love the videos BTW! Oh and my profile picture is not me! It’s a face swap of my mum and tammy from 1000lbs sisters 😂😂 🤣 really need to change that! Also I saw your nest protect video, is there any way of ingergrating them into a pre existing fire alarm system with panel? Thanks! 🤩
@@Finlays.Crazy.Kitchen I don't believe the nest detectors have a relay add-on first alert and kidde detectors have the capability of a relay that can be connected to the interconnect which you could trigger a fire alarm system with
It has nothing to do with the motors the motors are sized properly and engineered for the fans they get up to full speed within a second you can't start turning on fans creating negative pressure if make up air doors and dampers have not opened yet it will create a huge amount negative pressure and it would make the building very difficult to evacuate if you can't physically open the doors the starting of the fans must be delayed to give time for the doors to open
@@nics-systems-electric those are mounted in a safer spot. the ones i saw in the secondary high school testing video looked like they could try sucking the go pro right out of your hand or even one of the posters off the wall since they are lightweight objects. those too sounded like they have 600 volt 3 phase motors.
You know those fans may help visibility but dam will it it feed that fire! More oxygen for the fire meaning the fire will spread faster while producing a LOT more heat than if it was smuggled
I do understand your thought process on that but it’s not just visibility smoke causes more deaths than fire itself and in a modern building like this with flame and fire rated materials and fire suppression systems smoke is the real danger which is the reason these fans are there to remove the smoke for safe evacuation
I believe that there is a code that doesn’t require it if there is a certain distance between strobes or if two Un-synced strobes cannot be seen at the same location. I might be wrong.
Sync modules would not make a difference it is a notifier system that supports system sensor products with synchronization enabled so there is no reason they shouldn’t be synced we have been told that the sync cannot be fixed and that it is just the echo from the large atrium but I disagree I think there is more to it than the echo not sure what the problem is
The start of the fans are delayed from the initial door and louvre opening to ensure all the doors and louvres are open before they turn on otherwise it would put so much negative pressure on the building like a big vacuum you would not be able to open the doors and the door openers would not be powerful enough to overcome that pressure so the system would not work and you wouldn’t be able to evacuate easily as it would require a lot of force to push the doors open
The same way they opened in this video, when this was filmed the doors were also locked. Access control will pull in panic hardware and door openers will open the doors.
The air shouldn’t be rotating there would be no reason for it to be so it should just be pulled from the first floor up to the fourth floor straight up
That system will greatly accelerate a fire. More fire doors would be better. This system is too complex in my opinion. It will be very expensive to maintain as it ages.
Fire doors will not help in an atrium where you have bridges that are suspended in the open. modern non-combustible construction is a very low risk for fire in a sprinklered building that is why the system is in place to control smoke which is the real danger
@@nics-systems-electric yes but additional fire curtains would or you have fire doors at the bridge both sides and use the stairwells. I stand by my opinion of it's overly complicated. To many moving parts to this system. I also see fire doors that the system could cause the fire doors to fail to close and latch. Also all that tech and no ability to monitor the systems remotely?
@@nics-systems-electric I am saying that because It saves a trip. That part of the comment was for the power outage with the generator running. The system should not require babysitting.
