Have had several of the W163 benz - currently still own 2 of them. Tips for letting 4-ETS work its best: 1) Leave traction ON. 2) Do NOT floor it. 3) Keep the speed around 15 MPH - the 4ETS is a bit slow under extreme conditions and after a few seconds it usually routes and modules the braking correctly in order to get you out of some of the worse places
TFL y'all continue to impress me with your selection in perfectly aged SUV's like this merc and VW toureg . Keep up the good work! i love seeing vehicles people can afford, and odd ones that allow for unique ownership without breaking the bank. one need not spend loads of money to have a quirky vehicle that scratches the itch of "the one" vehicle you keep.
@@wildbill23c also.. i bet you didnt know that all 8 control arms on the first gen ML are forged.. hella solid. boxed frame massive trnasfer case.. etc.. aint no mawl crawler. but its certainly not a rock crawler either.
With a little bit of work these cars are as good or better than many modern cars - Jeeps included. Every trail I go on I’m left amazed at how capable it is and does it reliably and very comfortably.
I really wish someone built a rear locker for them. Being stuck in 2wd with no limited slip or anything sucks. I dont want to ruin my daily drivability by welding it but thats really the only option short of a transplant. Again, not worth it. I love my ML430 but as far as off roading, my 97 4Runner with e-locker was far superior. I'll take the comfort, v8 power and awkward looks for driving a modded Mercedes over crawl capability.
I have a 2001 ML320 with 140K miles. Lifted front with adjusting torsion, $100 spacer kit for rear, and big Cooper ATs makes this thing amazingly fun off road. I love it!
The key with this vehicle is that after building some momentum you must keep going, otherwise the system will cease working and you'll end up spinning in place (also ice, I've been on bad trails that weren't icy and never spun like you guys did). Other than ground clearance I've been able to keep up with Jeeps and Toyotas off road. While it definitely isn't a rock crawler, it definitely can take you more places than you'd expect. Glad to see you guys playing around with one of these! Also: check your brake pads and make sure those don't need to be replaced or soon to be replaced. On my last trip with my ML I was trying to get over something but couldn't because one of my brake pads was really worn down (it was slowing the wheel but not enough to make it). I replaced them with some new pads and now it stops the wheels when needed!
Annette Bening drove an ML in the movie, American Beauty. I wanted one after that. Bought my silver 2001 new and love it. It’s at the dealer now having $3500 in updates and maintenance. Getting new radio with Bluetooth plus new keyless entry fobs. Budgeting $2400 annually to keep it going. For $200 per month I get to drive an old car that I really enjoy. Plus it looks pristine.
Years ago in Toronto I was driving around one of these with a set of Michelin winter tires after one of the biggest snow falls in decade. It was the only vehicle moving.
I had a 2004 diesel version of the w163 where the auto in reverse would allow the engine to rev up to 2-3000rpm with little to no movement. It was like a high stall converter. Other than that, the gearbox is tuff as nails, handled deep sand on the beach really well.
@@jaimechapa418 6 bolts to drop the pan. 10 bolts to drop the valve body. You’ll need a 7mm socket to remove the electrical connector. 29 bolts to separate the valve body halves. Clean it up well & it’s good to go.
I have owned and loved these Mls for about 14 years, I have four of them now (because they’re so cheap to buy😀!!) They are so reliable, put a new conductor plate on the transmission and change the fluid if it ever goes into limp mode, air the tires down a little, get some momentum and I think it would walk right up those razor rocks. I’ve been shocked at how well mine does Offroad. It’s easy to lift the front torsion bars and put a spacer on the back and go with 32 inch mud tires, looks and works perfect. Thanks for the Video!
@tflclassics I thought this was a cheap build and you guys were going to give it hell?! Moment is your friend Tommy and Not cheating... Next time give it the beans bro it's an old merc that cost 4k!! That little light suv will bounce and climb right up those rocks with some speed🤘
@@tomasmica325 bahahaha that makes more sense then 😅 let's make a skid plate and install a spartan locker in the rear! Thing serious has potential but just needs a few mods, love seeing it be built, how you keep it and build it up over the year
@@tomasmica325 the transfer case will not, because its well under part of the frame, but you have to protect the gas tank, add some metal protection to the gas tank, its easy to do in the w163
bfg's are snow tires, they are M+S rated. The "real' snow tires you're talking about wouldn't cut it; sure they will stick to the snow, but they won't bite and grab into the rocks.
Stepping on the brakes stops the off the ground wheel from spinning and redirects traction to the grounded wheels. It is easier in a standard, but works on automatics too. This is old school off roading that seems to have been lost.
Another great video. The snow is a tough monster. One thing I think you've failed to mention when it comes to your review is how much safer the ML is compared to a XJ or other American built SUV's of the time. Side Airbags are a huge plus!
Nice, I was waiting for the ML off road video. It'd be nice to see you try the same trail with the LR3. After all they are almost in the same price range.
Yep exactly what I thought too. All the trucks they drove at a constant speed until the rocks stopped them. In the MB he stopped right before then tried to do it from a dead stop
In my experience with it in Portugal, since we all drive diesel here we tend to off road using torque instead of power. Thats why when using my friend's ML320 wherever stuck in sand since snow is rare overhere , we had to reverse it and give it momentum by flooring in order to bail out of stuck situations. I feel bad for you in America how much gas is wasted and engine internals/transmission components for keep pushing gas hogs in this conditions. Diesel is way better for this situations. But I'm glad you are making the most of the ML320 like I did in the past. Its a blast and that exhaust sound can't really neither forget it!
I have this model. I love this car!! I have done snowy and mud hill climbs, pulled a Ford truck out of thick mud, and have experienced similar rocks to drive over. The key is to have the space to swerve left to right as you move forward, and yes, floor it - slow is okay, but this car needs a lead foot to operate in trail conditions. I did not have those tires, just standard all-weather Michelins. I love my old, little car... and all our adventures have given it a place in my roadtrip memories with my daughter. Thanks for this video, I need to get back on the road soon :)
@@jonardalejo9687 good so far, just had as major service at 320,000km replaced asll the injectors, rocker cover and fixed a leak on the turbo oil feed pipe.
I would still really like to see yall test an 05-10 grand cherokee with the quadra drive 4wd system. They've got front, center, and rear electronic limited slip diffs that are unstoppable with a good set of tires.
4ETS is like using locking diffs just needs more gas to work ! Also i 11:05 its not pure momentum in order to build momentum you meed grip amd the 4ets delivered because je floored it
This trucks are more capable off road than a Subaru (no CVT limiting the torque to the tires like Subaru ) or a regular SUV with open difs, I own an ML 320 and have taken me through intermediate off road trails, following new 4Runners and Jeeps. It's not a rock crawler but it's better than any average off roader, the traction control for off road is robust and it has not let me down. Tomas kindly please uploading more videos testing this truck further and also please! do the slippe test, it should pass with 100%. Thanks for the video, loved it
You can't keep trying to compare this to the Touareg. The second gen ML of the same year as the Touareg also had rear and centre diff locks with low range, air suspension and crazy underbody protection (which the Touareg doesn't have).
You should pick up a Chevrolet Trailblazer. I'd love to see how the proper transfer case and in line 6 would stack up against some of the other cheap 4x4s you have come up with. It was also marketed to soccer moms. Can be pretty capable with a few mods.
@@Jackmerius_Tacktheretrix G80 rear, same as that trail boss. My Envoy has the G80 + 3.73's; Not as nice as an e locker but once it kicks in it helps. Think it'd go farther than the ML would stock, at least these early ML's.
1- the ML need a good off-road driver 2- the 4ETS can do this job but you have to give it at least 7-8 seconds 3- even if you have BF tires you need to air down on snow but you have the problem I said in 1 4-you're right about the independent suspension but remember its an utility vehicle not a wrangler made only to be driven in farm. 5- the Mercedes ML is a Very safe vehicle you should mention that.
Ive been following your channel with this ML W163. I also follow anything on the W163 using all the comments as a consumer guide. The more I see the more I want :) :)
This older guy is like the italian boston gangster dad and the little guy is like his goofy son... Thinking about this makes it more fun to watch... I even dub them with an accent in the back of my mind...
When the "visionaries" finally realize that an electric motor on each wheel is perfect wheel control with no diffs, lockers, transmission (though individual wheel multiple ratio control will be a thing) , transfer case, axles, driveshafts etc. the focus will be entirely on suspension dynamics. Suspension geometry will become more vertical rather than horizontal (not connected with an axle) and independent suspension will be essential. The discussion will be way beyond "can you get the correct wheel to turn" to how the system will "elevate/extend" the suspension on the individual wheel for the optimum reach and traction. Depending on the engineering of course, each wheel can be raised/lowered to an extreme to maintain the best possible traction per wheel and yaw of the entire vehicle. Even a weight transfer and/or weight pulse on each wheel (for extreme traction) would be possible. What you would see, within the limits of reason, is a vehicle maintaining a level yaw with each wheel raising and lowering to fit the extreme terrain while maintaining the ideal traction on each wheel. Even the extreme extreme articulation seen on the radical implementations with axles will be nothing when real independent suspension is implemented with an electric motor on each wheel!!!
A hydraulic motor on each wheel would work also. Don't understand why this was never used. It's been successfully used in heavy mining vehicles for decades.
Listening to you talk about this truck makes me think you know nothing about the chevy blazer zr2. Go and pick up a 2002 zr2 for about $3k put bfgs on it and run it stock (with stock bilsteins) against the ml. I think that you will need to change your song.
@@InformalGreeting Agreed. IMO, the accolades being delivered to the $4000 ML did not seem warranted in comparison to other ignored market competitors. Given the perfunctory dismissal of my on-topic comment, I can only assume that this content isn't genuinely independent. I don't know what the angle is, but there's an angle here somewhere, preventing comparisons with a more competent same-era vehicle. I'm not saying that the Chevy is better all-around; I'm just saying that the Chevy does everything Tommy likes about the ML, only better and cheaper. And maintenance on a Chevy is about a tenth the cost of a Merc. I'd argue that the Chevy is a bit less reliable and feels cheaper, rattles more, but for less money, better performance. But then again, I'm not being paid for this opinion, so it's merely objective.
This project was so good! I enjoyed it from the beginning! Great job👏 I always wanted a 2005 ML-350 or a 2011 ML-350. If possible, can you guys review a 2002 Volvo XC-90?
I watched a video of another W163 ML approach a 40 degree hill at about a 45 degree angle, creeping, presumably in low range. The right front tire was first on the hill, and the left front and right rear lost grip almost simultaneously, and each left the ground a bit, yet, it kept creeping until the back bumper wasn’t scraping, but actually planted in the ground, and the truck didn’t seem to have enough power to climb this extreme attempt. The guy just backed up, no drama, no bumper damage. Had the ML been able to proceed another foot would have been incredible. What it did was incredible. Any more would have maybe been a recipe for flipping backwards.
As a german - we do have a little bit of off roading, but there are reasons why dont go as crazy: First and foremost we arent allowed to. TÜV is very strikt and bigger tires for example are very hard to get legalized - we need to correct the speedometer, we need to guarantee that the tire will never rub the chassis under any circumstance and it cant stick out past the fenders. If only one of those isnt archieved, no registration. Then secondly our gas is very expensive, so we cant afford big cars with big tires since they use usually a lot of fuel. Also big tires are very unsafe on our high ways, since it doesnt help high speed stability. BUT we do have some offroading. We use just mostly smaller cars, most popular are the Suzuki Jimny (new 2020 Samurai) or Lada Nivas. And some Ford Rangers or Nissan Pathfinders (both Diesels)- those are the biggest we see as Offroaders on the roads pretty much. Those get modified to some degree - but not as crazy, just TÜV approved bolt-on parts. And some time ago I saw a new two door Wrangler and couldnt believe how big it was! They look huge to us. VW Golf sized cars are the norm here.
Aldo due to environmental reasons, you can't just go anywhere offroad in Western Europe, only on approved trails, so the hardcore off-roader scene is pretty limited. Here in Eastern Eruope the legislation is more loose, or people just ignore it, so you'll see more off roaders in the mountains, some aren't even registered, as police cars can't even get there.
I have a 99 and made in Alabama....159,000 miles and it works like day one......But it has never left Arizona..... I love the suv and love the 3.6L engine....
It's been interesting to see these European SUVs that one wouldn't normally think of being off-road capable. Would like to see you go in a different direction with your next cheap SUV. Maybe non-Jeep American SUVs like a Durango, Explorer, Tahoe, S10 Blazer, Trailblazer or sister vehicle like a Buick Rainier, 1st Gen Escape/Mazda Tribute/Mercury Mariner (AWD, no low range, locking center diff) or go Japanese with a Mitsubishi Montero or 1st gen RAV4. Basically vehicles that if you break them, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg just for the parts. Something you can buy and lightly modify for under $5000 to a reliable off-roader.
Wow these things are still fetching good money in the states ! I paid around NZD $2800. For an 04 fully optioned facelift diesel. With 19400 kms I think that's about USD $1700.
I believe in 4 low, all traction control is disabled in the Silverado's. Had you been in 4 high (which is very do-able offroad with the 10 speed) you might have seen a different outcome. Food for thought!
I've had my '98 ML320 in some semi-serious off-roading situations up to and including fording a creek that was WAY deeper than it looked. I've only ever gotten stuck when it had bottomed out due to heavily modified trucks leaving very deep ruts that my stock size tires just couldnt cope with.
Hello chaps. By the way, don't use low range in the snow, read the manual, where it says this. Thanks from the Morvan, France, where we go off road in ours all the time in the mountains and snow, and don't have that trouble.
Bought my ‘97 4Runner for $3800 just over a year ago. 230,000 miles and it would blow this Merc away on the trail using the same tires. Underbody protection and the low range transfer case are some stock features that were mentioned in the video that would be useful on this trail. I live down in Colorado Springs so I’ll have to come try this trail sometime soon!
Good work! That's what I wanted to see since you first bought it. Since there was snow, I guess we didn't get to see how the traction control works on dry sand, with only one wheel on the ground per axle. But I will watch the video again. Just out of curiosity, I've seen in real-world the Audi Q7 4.2TDI on a really muddy terrain with stock summer tires (ultra low profile), and I was really impressed on what it was able to do (even without lockers or even low range). It does have a more sophisticated traction control than the ML (with a specific "offroad" mode on the MMI), air suspension with height adjustment, and while I truly believe that low-range would be a great benefit, maybe the massive torque of the V8 diesel makes up for some part of that. I believe that it's still head and shoulders above the X5 of the same age, and it would fare better than this ML with the same range of tires. I'm not a fan (fanatic) for any particular brand, but maybe someday you should try the Q7 offroad and see what it really can do. I was truly amazed! (Just be prepared, because that torque will leave marks on tires...lol)
Its the previous owners that are at fault by not servicing the vehicle ,mine is very reliable traction control is automatic in low range with esp off it will go any where ,great work 👍
I have no experience with snow, but if I was driving off-road I would have deflated way more than that so tires would grip better around those slippery rocks
I was checking the video, when you passed the Gladiator through the razor rocks you gave it momentum and with the ML you did not, I am sure it could have made it with some momentum and lowering the tires pressure to 14 Lbs, but not sure if the ground clearance would have being an issue, Tomas add a skid plate to ( the gas tank) Thanks great video.
I've heard of people swapping the rear diff from the AMG models but they failed to mention that later versions had updated drivetrains. The ML350 has locking central and rear diffs.
I would love to see this ML back in another video soon! I have a 2001 ML320 and I would love to see how yours does in a slip test or other off-road trail
i did all this in my $1000 volvo xc70 with 265k miles. car would go offroad thru snow anywhere haldex awd this should be your next cheap offroad build i am a dealer i can get you a awd xc90 or xc70 at auction for about $2000 after we get past the pandemic
3 Things i want to bring up: 1.About the difference between the ML in general and the Touareg/Cayenne was that Mercedes built a Soft Version because they had/have the G you could buy if Offroad was the aim. VW and Porsche didn't have another more offroady car in their lineup, so they put lockers in their first SUV. Nowadays the Touareg doesn't have any locking diffs anymore, and even low range is gone. Because VW wants to market the Touareg as Luxury vehicle instead of the Phaeton. 2: When germans buy something just for offroading (they have a few offroad parks) they usually get old Military G Wagons or old Defenders. With or without mods, they are very capable, and don't break the bank with spare parts. (a good ex mil G costs you around 10-15 k € in central Europe. It has no creature comforts and in most cases not even a metal roof and the extreme enthusiasts get themselves a Pinzgauer :-) ) 3. It might just be my impression but i think in your conditions you would have had an easier time with winter tires.
They never came to US, but a second generation Suzuki Grand Vitara from about 2006 onwards was surprisingly good off road. Much better then gen 1 Vitara.
Unclear if they turned ESP off, which you are supposed to do off road, otherwise the on road stability system will kick in an prevent the ETS working properly.
I was with you when you bought the LR3, I was even with you when you bought the Touareg, but you guys have flown too close to the sun with this one. In any case, I'll be watching :)
Ok I watched it again and saw the front left wheel spinning. BUT, my 2006 Z71 does have a front diff lock actuator that does sometimes not engage. That truck looked new. AND it was a Z71. What gives?
Also wrong. You say they're now not engineered to go off road? They are. Part of their testing is making sure it can do fairly hectic off road courses. The reason why they don't market it as such, is because no owner ever does actually take it off road. But they can.
Seriously considered a 08 GL Bluetech diesel a while back, but after researching issues and more importantly COST if something goes bad it just scared me. 65k vehicle when new and they were asking 20k very nice vehicle but cost to fix was to risky for me.
Running an lsd in the rear of mine. 33" BFG's and 3.5" lift and rear swaybar delete. I can't stress enough how this combo changes the ML''s off road capabilities. 👍
@@ekhc I used 30mm longer king springs in the rear. (Out of Australia.) Part number KMRR-91. + 20mm strut spacers. Both available on Ebay if not locally available in your country. Front suspension was raised by winding up the front torsion bars to maximum height + turning the torsion bar adjustment arm by 1 spline. Some have gone 2 splines, but I wouldn't recommend it. As I think it would lead to premature ball joint wear and binding. Front shocks are Boge brand. Aprox 3" longer than stock. Just went through a whole selection to see what would fit. So your kinda on your own there. Also added a 1" body lift for approach angles and added tire clearance. 1" is about the max you can go before you run into problems with the steering column, Abs brake lines and fuel filler neck etc. You can go higher, but I feel it would be pointless and expensive. As no lsd or locking rear diff is available for the ML W163, we sourced an lsd unit from a BMW 5 series. (3.46 ratio to suit ml 270 diesel factory gearing). Utilizing custom diff cradle brackets and custom inner CV joints and machined drive flange adapters. Lsd was also set up very tight. Almost like a locker, but still very streetable on paved roads. The 4 ets system still seems to function properly, leaving the front wheels to fend for them selves 👍. Search RU-vid for video : indexing torsion bars/lifting a Mercedes w163. Very helpful video and should explain everything you need to know. Good luck with your project. I've had a lot of fun with mine, and have surprised a few 4x4 guys on the trails 👍 No cutting or welding of the chassis was required, so everything can be returned back to stock in the future if needed. Edit. I plan to do some offroad testing over Easter. So will try to do a bit of a video on what the ML can do. And a little info on the LSD install if anyone is interested. 👍
