@@dr-ok3sn We get almost no requests to switch to 4k. This is the first request in maybe two weeks. From our perspective its not worth the crazy editing and exporting times. We switched to 4k in 2015 and then switched back because nobody wanted or appreciated it
I was thinking it would be the ML during the intro, as the Touareg was built when VW was going tank mad with it and the Phaeton, and Land Rovers of that period usually don't have that kind of an issue, they tend to just be stall happy.
@@na-cg8pc Yeah well most people don't know how to use tire pressure to their advantage. On another note, I don't think the terrain comes across on camera. So reading about how the ML owners all do WAY HARDER terrain on a regular makes me wonder....😂
@@Theoneandonlyearthhuman I have an ML320 01 and have driven it on similar or worse terrain, I think Tommy forced the truck to many times and did not take the correct path till the end and that is why it made it up, but he already caused some internal damage to the transfer case, this ML's are built like real trucks, my ML is well maintained with fresh oils and it has served me 120k miles with nothing major broken, going through hard terrain
@@gpaje if its not a crazy long run or super "hard" trail, they don't always air down at all, you can see tire bouncing not flexing. I'm aware these guys are good, I have wheeled with them a few times, but again all the trucks will benefit if taken to 15-18 psi. Many times im sure they don't have the time to always air up and down while shooting video
They said it a couple of time that they test it the same way a average person going off road without experience would go so that means without airing down tires
@@Alienking01 common let's be real here does the average person even do off-road like this the most they see is a gravel road and you defeneatley don't need to air down
He should have been in mud and ruts, and manual gear, in 1 or 2nd gear. Rock crawl mode limits the throttle response so bad, it;'s almost impossible to bump anything.
Lr3 with HD package. Best cheap off roader you will find. Learning to use the other terrain responses will greatly improve your outcome. Lifting with the air suspension removes too much articulation. Use your iid tool to just slightly bump up over stock to preserve as much articulation as possible while gaining that touch of needed clearance. I prefer mud/ruts for most everything. Think you will find that combo in low much more useful.
I've owned about 5 ML's over a few years (good flipping cars) and i've taken them off road in the dunes, rocks, mud and they do pretty well. You are incorrect about pushing the "Low Range" button and that's it for 4x4. You have to push the ESP button as well or the vehicle will think you are using the on road traction control. The ESP button changes it from on road to off road traction control. these things are amazing. I was cruising the dunes at glamis with jeeps and buggies and those things are pretty capable.
True the ESP off with low range 71.1 Kroll was at the time the lowest Kroll ratio you can get on an suv, improvements to the 2000 to 2004 ML W163 ware made and more reliable too, easy to fix because it has great access to all the main components like the alternator, starter, my 01 ML320 has being nothing but reliable, also note that Tommy's ML was a 99 model this vehicles were improved and corrected after 2000 models, the transmission and traction ratio was changed the back wheels 52% and 48% to the front also the transmission tuned better
Thanks for sharing the both the highs and lows of the day and not editing out the misadventure with ML! What you guys are doing with these older SUVs is pretty unique (at least in US). I am hoping you will get a first gen X5 and XC90 and do a similar comparo!
The X5 would do terrible. Had one. Ran like a bat outta hell but my stock disco II had a much better traction control and had far less wheelspin even with open front center and rear diffs.
@@boundish1 exactly, these crossovers were never meant for real offroad, just added traction in the wet and snow. People need to understand that. Vehicles with a body on frame like the LR3 and ML are much more robust with heavier duty suspensions, tie rods etc. That BMW awd setup is more for performance than offroad. Thats why these vehicles don't have 2 speed transfer cases or any suspension travel.
@@jackshotton9222 No it does not. Hint: no low range. X5 were always known for being terrible off-road. Unless you really just mean off the paved road. ✌️
I am stil driving an ML (270CDI- 2003). I have driven him in much more difficult Offroad paths (mud, stone&dust, snow&ice). And I strongly belive that the ML can much more than that if you at least disable the ESP.
You guys forget, they’re making reviews for the average driver.. not “Profesionals” like yourselves. They did an awesome review, the likes and views go to show.
@@Prawjekskinyblack ... and THEY FAIL MISERABLY. The average driver better never take off roading tips from this channel. Tommy and his dad are 2 of the WORST off roaders on RU-vid. FULL STOP.
For an under $5000 offroader, y'all should get an early 2000s Mitsubishi Montero. They are Japanese reliable and off road capable. They are popular here in Uganda and allover Africa, as the Pajero, for their ability to handle these harsh roads and remain reliable while doing it. Would like to see y'all test one out in those trails. I feel they are underated there in the states.
I haven't seen this kind of inept driving ever. You have to use a little momentum sometimes. Not creep up to a step, then give it 25% throttle and be afraid to give it more.
yeah, im starting to feel that they are setting a VERY dangerous example... especially since they dont have a disclaimer or anything. They hardly know what they are doing and it is going to cause someone some serious harm one day.
The young Man really need to go for offroad driving lectures........... They just made the ML look incapable when a good offroad driver with a corolla can pass with ease.
@@dericklegall4581 lol... so..... that means it would just break that easily? I've done some effed up stuff way worse than that to lesser vehicles and never broke a car that easy.
The 4matic computer on the '99 ML is too slow to efficiently move the torque around in those conditions. Later models have significantly faster reaction time and more effectively move the torque around as needed. Very true about the engine, the M112 V6 (and M113 V8 its big brother) are some of the best engines ever built by MB. Failure is very rare.
I am glad someone noticed. You drive so slow almost as if you want to stick the vehicle. You never hit a huge obstacle and then accelerate. Come on guys. Get off roaders next time to drive.
@@cameronreynolds9264 Slow and steady wins the race. Rock crawling is not about speed, its about precision and strategy. The idea is to complete the course (or get to your destination) without breaking anything.
Very entertaining and enjoyable video chaps, but a couple of observations if I may. The Disco 3 got its front wheels over the obstacle fairly easily, square on, and if the momentum wasn't impeded, would possibly got the rears over also? Whereas the Touareg got the fronts stuck square on, and needed to practically go around the obstacle to get past it. I think a rematch is needed to see if the rear locker really dose give the Touareg an advantage?
100% correct; the VW and Rover both went around the obstacle, just the Rover right where the VW went left. The only challenge there was the step up over that one root. At that point, tire height is more important than lockers as a taller tire will more easily roll over a vertical step like that. So while of course a locker is superior (and a manually selectable one is always more desirable than a computer controlled one assuming a basic level of driver skill) in this particular instance I don't think it was a deciding factor. Given the all important nature of line choice even on ultra-mild trails like this a rematch is in order.
@@donhappel9566 Thanks for the reply Don, and agreed re lockers. I'm no off-road expert, but experienced drivers have always told me that correct and consistent, speed/momentum is critical. Not sure if it would of made much difference, but can't help but feel, a tad more speed without hesitation, would of got 3 over on first attempt?
@@shepchester3567 You're absolutely right, these guys are shooting themselves in the foot every time they do one of these videos because they don't hit the obstacles with momentum. I'm sure its because they think they will break something if they hit it with speed, but the truth is the way they are loading up the drivetrain by trying to throttle over the obstacles when all 4 wheels are spinning is far more likely to cause damage as is evident by the ML breaking.
I bought a new ML 270 diesel in 2001 and I still have it. Never had trouble with it. Exept 3 battery changes. That car is assembled in Austria I think. The ML have more capabilities than this driver have skills and knowledge. I also have a BMW X5 530 diesel. Super Car! Fast comfort and capable to do this hill. This look more like Family Flinstone testing cars.
I have an ml320 and I could have made it up that easy peasy 🥰 Definitely the driver. I've drove mine up a rocky river leavy and it was way more steep and had no problems. You have to know how to handle them and drive it 🤦
I was just gonna add that they need to get a 2nd Gen Montero SR and even get a 3rd Gen. My 3rd Gen with the OME lift has 12-13 inches of ground clearance.
Other than IRS architecture and European origins, this trio shares one more distinction: MotorTrend SUV of the Year winners 2006 Land Rover LR3, Touareg 2004, and ML320 Truck of the Year 1998 Good taste and great videos. Glad to see someone takin them out there
In all honesty that is the poorest off road driving I have ever witnessed, these vehicles have way higher tolerances than you have shown, what a shambles you guys need to grow some........
In all honesty you don’t know squat. Tell you what....Why don’t you shut up and show us how it’s done. Bring your rig to cliffhanger 1.0 and let’s see what you got. Otherwise, in all honesty, it’s all just so many lame words in a lame ass comment.
@@TFLclassics I really like all of your channels (especially classics), & I've loved many of your videos & have watched several of them more than once (including this one). I mean this with the utmost respect; there's actually some merit in what Carl Girvin stated above 😕 I'm not claiming to be an off-road expert, but I would've driven all 3 of those vehicles to the top without stopping & on the 1st attempt. The key to off-roading is to go as slow as possible but as fast as necessary, & nothing (& I mean absolutely nothing!!!) is as important as correct tyre pressure. 18 to 25 PSI & all 3 vehicles would've easily crawled to the top, over the roots & through the ruts without a challenge. I read another comment on this video where a bloke stated you guys don't drop tyre pressures to simulate what an average off-road driver would do. I'm not trying to start an international pissing contest, but even an average off-roader would drop tyre pressures here in Australia, & only an absolute novice wouldn't. I truly appreciate what you're trying to do, but you're never going to show people what those vehicles are truly capable of unless you air down. For the record I own a facelift 2001 ML320 riding on Radar Renegade 265/65R17 AT5 rubber. With traction control on & 18 PSI & low-range engaged I'd easily crawl up that hill blind-folded. I run 40 PSI on-road, & at that pressure I would need lots of momentum to "bounce" over obstacles (tree roots, etc) putting a lot of unnecessary strain on suspension, steering, & drivetrain components. Once again I mean absolutely no disrespect, but you're never going to be able to show the true capability of any vehicle off-road without airing down. Anyway, thank you for the many hours of entertainment & G'day from the Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia 🇦🇺✌🏻
the russian market touareg had a front diff lock too. also the running gear is the same across all touaregs meaning the v10 tdi torque monster has the same as the base v6.
🥱 these three vehicles are just sitting there, unable to contain the excitement of meeting a trail captained by Mark Thorpe… Also the word you were looking for was those not them… At least you’re a professional off road driver, not a person who can write…
Ouch ! A really bad noise when it broke. I would choose the LR3 for my part (even if my favorite budget family offroader would be an old Cherokee XJ or a Toyota Land Cruiser SW 8 series but forbidden choice ;-) ).
I have a LR3 and I have gone through over those kind of roots without any problems, you just have to go easy with the throttle and let the Landy do the rest...
I really love these off road videos! In a way I wish Tommy would bring back his off road trail series he started a while back- forgot what you guys called it? Also it should be noted the “unreliable” Land Rover was used to tow the broken vehicle down the mountain(where are all the Land Rover haters) 🤷🏻♂️
Do your homework first Benzar. I'm not trying to criticise your plans or deter you in any way, but it can be bloody expensive to import a car into Australia, & very few models are actually allowed to be imported unfortunately 😕 Australia is however a fantastic place for off-roading, especially in my home state of Queensland. Best of luck with your plans mate 🇦🇺✌🏻
The cliffhanger is difficult because the root ditches are as deep as half the wheel diameter. When that is the case off roaring with small wheels is difficult for any drive system. Big diameter tires like 36” or a 35” verses a standard tire is the way to go. The problem with SUVs is that it’s nearly impossible to install those bigger tires like you can in a jeep or a pickup truck. All wheel drive SUVs are for light off roading. I would not attempt to climb over a root wall 1/2 the height of the wheel height in an SUV.
The skill is driving a car to it's strengths and finding a line that works. Ploughing into an obstacle which is not makeable isnt great. Watch the channel 4WD 24/7 channel. Some proper offroad in Australia
I cannot believe how cheap that used LR3 is. In my country, that one would cost around USD 55,000 ! Best videos as always, TFL team. BR from Bali Island, Indonesia
ESP needed to be off on the Ml320, if you read the manual it tells you for extreme off road you need to turn ESP off. This will apply the breaks stronger on the wheels that needed traction, simulating lockers
The Land Cruiser, aka GX470 is more of a Jeep competitor that any of these, since it was designed for old-school rock crawling (rather than technology) and has been around much, much, longer.
Those land rovers are awesome offroad. My friend has one. But... air suspension just gave out and its sitting on tjres now. Switching to mechanical springs soon and getting rid of the air bags. Its the 2nd set of air suspension on it too and under 150k miles
Most times the suspension goes out because the air dryer doesn't get changed. A sure sign is it being low when you go to start it in the morning. The LR has a much higher pressure air system than the others, and that's why it can raise up and down so much faster. It's somewhere in the neighborhood of 200psi.
Easy fixing. Like the other guy said: change the air dryer which is like $40. Also change the seals on the compressor for about $80. Can do this stuff yourself with $30 worth of Harbor Freight tools lol.
I bought a 1999 ML320 with 160,000 miles and paid $1,500 for it (very clean)...... and runs great and has cold AC......But then started replacing things: 1. New Michelin LTX tires $1,000.00 2. New Rotors and brake pads $1,000.00 3. New Amsoil oil change $150.00 4. Replaced the Crank position sensor $325.00 5. Front and Rear Differential service $400.00 6. Transmission flush service $350.00 7. New fuel filter and pump replacement $800.00 I have invested over $5,500 invested but man she looks and runs like a new truck and I love her !
Just came back to watch this video as this is the video that made me buy an LR3. What a great decision. Never loved a vehicle this much! Thanks for making this video!
ML was only made originally for US market, as a soft SUV, open diffs with simple TC software for poor weather and seasonal snow in certain states. It’s around 7+ years older technology than either of VAG and LR, they have Rock/crawler/uphill mode and downhill systems through sophisticated TC software and lockable diffs. The ML is a nice road vehicle but a serious off-roader it isn’t unless it’s modified with aftermarket “stuff....”
I do stuff harder than this in my LR 3 all the time. I do have rear locker which helps. But you’re not gonna take out an airbag on an obstacle like that. Should have kept momentum going.
Even better, put the tow strap loop inside the receiver and then connect the crossbar pin through the eyelet. Adapters work, but like you said they're usually not necessary.
Shaun Meldrum they’re pretty cool rigs when you can find one in good condition. Off readers they are not lol. Though it has a decent 4wd drive system but not for this kind of driving
Thats cool you guys took an ML off road. I got my 2002 chevy tracker for $700 and got some uniroyal AT tires for $57 a pop on amazon and i think i could keep up with your rigs. I guess our idea of a budget off roader is a little different. I love your vids though, keep it up.
I only wish they hadn't by-passed the only obstacle on the trail with the VW so we could see if it would have actually made the same line they tried with the Rover. I actually think both could have done the harder line with lower tire pressure and a small bump. As it was at least the Rover got it's fronts over the root.
4 года назад
@@donhappel9566 If the LR had the rear locker it would have dominated totally.
I have a 2001 ML320 and it has done so well in every terrain even harder than cliff hanger, crossed country with it and no problem, I think Tommy's ML transfer case was not maintained properly
I own a stock LRD3, V6, 2700cm3, diesel, manual gear shift, 265/60/R18 all terrain M+S reinforced tyres and i tell you that this car has a secret. On low range, second gear at 10-12km/hour speed, mud program selected with tyres at 1,6 -1,8 atm pressure, suspension at normal height this car will go almost everywhere. LRD3 is a heavy car, about 2,7 tones empty, so using it as an offroader it's not an easy task, but if you manage to crawl with enough speed , you will pass easy on hard terrain. Only backdraw is when ridding with low tyre pressure you must manage to avoid sharp stones and edges.
I had a 2009 ML430. I went off-road on a fairly well kept fire-trail except for some potholes. I hit one of these potholes with the LHS rear tyre at 5km/hr. The front tyre got through but the rear tyre came to an abrupt stop. The ML then made a roaring noise from the tyre after I managed to get going again. When I checked I found that the tyre was pushed back approximately 30mm. When I got back on the bitumen the noise turned into a screech and left a feint skid-mark on the road.The mechanic said that the lower arm was bent and so was the body or chassis. He said that everything needed to be taken off the chassis and put back on straight. My insurance company wrote the ML off. The heavy ML combined with a full payload appears to be a bit fragile off-road.
You guys mention "budget off-roaders for $5,000" but haven't included a late-model Mitsubishi Montero? Come on. Those things can be had for $5k all across the country all day long.
I've run them for years along with a ton of other mods and agree that for a dirt road like this they should have left the suspension in normal height as that's the equivalent of the stock off-road setting when using rods. The would have had more down-travel in that setting which would have helped in the cross-axle areas. However it wouldn't have helped get over the tree root. In that situation a taller tire would have more easily rolled over the vertical step; hitting it at an angle would have helped by causing one tire at a time to step over; or using a bit of momentum to carry the car over. Or you could just go around it entirely like they did with the VW. :)
Don Happel why not just leave it stock then? No hate just don’t see the point of running it in tall mode at all times. My LR3 does just fine without the lift :)
@@blaises1748 It depends on how far you want to push the truck. They have minimal ground clearance at the rockers which on this vehicle translates to the same clearance everywhere, so they high-center easily. Having the option to go up a bit more can be helpful here. The fact is most owners don't really push these trucks - a simple dirt road like this video showed is about as 'off road' as a lot of them ever see. But if you actually want to play in the rocks having the ability to go up is handy even if you don't want to run there all the time.
It seems to me that tire diameter/axle height is the key to such a high and abrupt obstacle. Basically if the obstacle is higher than the axle you can apply all the torque with all the traction you’d like and nothing happens.
The VW is clearly the most capable of the bunch, but all 3 of them could have walked over this obstacle if they had a competent driver behind the wheel.
@@AnissaEx The Veedub is not more capable than the LR3 by a long way. Give them an LR3 with locking rear diff the same as the VW and see what's more capable. And what vehicle did they use to tow the ML uphill with? Yep the LR3.
I know this is an old video, but.... ...while I agree that the LR3 would have walked up if set up (and driven) properly, at least the driving style was consistent across the models. In general I think the LR3 would eat that Toureg for breakfast, especially an HD variant. I enjoy these TFL videos. Oh ...and Tommy, Hill Descent Control isn't really doing the work, Lo-Range is! HDC is nice to have in Reverse though, and it's a great torque arrester when you hit big holes.
I like the Mercedes-Benz ML320 but I think it would look good with the OEM fender flares & the ML320 in this video is the same year & color of my family’s old ML320
really guys..A matchup that would never happen. This video works only to prove that if you try very hard to make vehicles fail on camera, you can do it.. No one is comparing these 3 vehicles. If your looking for a off road vehicle no way these 3 would be in anyone's comparison list. You guys are very good at attracting viewers though. So in the end this video proves that people must be extremely bored to accept this as great content.
Waiter: "Would you like to try a little Momentum?" Tommy: "What vintage?" Waiter: "The VERY cheapest of the 1990's" Tommy: "Yes sir, put it on my tab."
Unbelievable, don't drive the vehicle if you don't know how to and/or your'e not willing to use all it's features. You're worried you'll blow out an airbag on the LR3 and you don't like the height. I've owned an LR3 for a number of years now, they are a tough old beast more than capable.