Maths isn't just calculations ....as a physicist, I promise I can show you the beauty of maths outside of dry calculations ...the patterns are there and are beautiful ...the maths to calculate how long a wind instrument needs to be to make beautiful sounds, that's maths, the length of the strings on your guitar, that's maths, the shape of the cavity in your guitar, that's maths, the size of your drum heads, maths ....its all there together making a beautiful symphony of symbols and sounds :) big up to you both
@@dirksilver khan academy, patrick jmt, veritasium, vsauce ....if you want to watch lectures, MIT open courseware is a priceless resource ....don't be afraid to pick up a freshman level text book (Haliday and Resnick is decent) and start working your way through that ...best of luck!!
There’s so much physics and overall science-based content on RU-vid. You should have no issue finding sources of easy-to-comprehend information. As suggested, Veritasium is a good one. PBS Space Time. Physics Girl. Tim Dodd the Everyday Astronaut. Lectures from The Perimeter Institute. TED Talks. So many I can’t even think - maybe I should give you my login info do you can just check my feed… 🤣 Today is such an exciting time to be alive.
Math is the code of life and nature. It’s in everything. It’s in your music. You were using it in every song you wrote you just did it organically. Time signatures, tempo. Pitch, vibrations of strings, volume, ohms, wattage, drum sizes, velocity of your stick swings, distances between the mics on your set… Everything is math.
Well said and I agree. I think it's true in principle. However, it is also the little imperfections making things in music special and it is facinating that you don't need to follow or know "the math behind", but can express the voice and feel of your "code" without knowing.
@@schlurosaurusrex2827 That’s where improvisational Jazz comes into play. Expression.. Also, the flaw is reflected in nature. The Japanese painters used to purposely incorporate a flaw into their work to mimic nature.
If you watched a little bit more of that conversation, you would see where Maynard describes looking back on writing that song: he sees it as an immature thing to do because all well-structured art already has the fi ratio in it as a fundamental feature. So trying to force the ratio into the song by composing it around the Fibonacci sequence was, he said, "sophomoric." I understand that perspective, but, in my opinion, Lateralus was so well composed that the imposition of the Fibonacci sequence doesn't seem heavy-handed--it seems organic. As I understand it, the band didn't set out to compose a song based on the Fibonacci sequence, they discovered that a riff they were working on transitioned from the time signatures 9/8 to 8/8 to 7/8. 987 is a Fibonacci number, so they based the rest of the song on that structure. This seems like they were just taking advantage of a geometric concept to help explore an artistic idea that originated organically. For me, this helps explain why the song doesn't come off as ham-fisted or overwrought.
I’m so glad you made this comment. I wanted to say this, but you described what I wanted to say much better. Some Tool fans might be trying to make it more sophisticated, but I took away the same thing you did from hearing Maynard talk about it.
It's in the syllables of the verse of Lateralus, the song you reacted to that gave you the chills. You add the current number to the one before it. 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21 etc etc. The verse goes to 8 then back down... "Red (1), Then (1), White are (2), All I see (3), In my infancy (5), red and yellow then came to be (8), reaching out to me (5), let's me see (3)" It's not massively important but kind of cool that they found a way of incorporating it. There's a lot of maths in music aswell as feeling. Nice one
So, it isn't as arbitrary as it may seem at first glance. The Fibonacci sequence is one of a number of mathematical concepts that appear in nature all the time. Fractals, as mentioned, are another. Fourier transforms are yet another example where Fourier created these equations to translate interference patterns of light waves into visual images, then realized that our eyes do the same thing. For Tool and many others, this is evidence of "God" or a designing intelligence within Nature. It's a deeply held spiritual conviction that can be verified beyond mere faith. You can actually measure these mathematical patterns in, say, the ratios of how certain plants flower, in the shapes of coastlines, etc. They do lots of stuff like this; for instance, Danny Carey incorporates sacred geometry into his patterns across the drums and discusses them as drawing magic sigils. Still, you can be totally unaware of the arcane stuff and still dig the music.
Man I so wish I could find a way to write a response that is short, simple, and understandable. It’s so incredibly hard to explain the simple but incredible depth that’s actually in this song. My friend asked me about it the other day and after an hour long convo, I finally had to just say, Lateralus gives you chills because it was recorded in the same sequence that’s found within all of us and surrounds us. As a Native American Geologist that’s also been a fan since 96, it still blows my mind that they were able to pull it off. I actually think you’re scratching the surface because you do have that deeper understanding. Our ancestors had it. It has slowly been suppressed from us for decades. We have all lost that deep connection with nature that actually binds us all together. My ancestors in the Amazon could feel the earth breathing and pace it with their heart beats. They say the universal language is mathematics, because it’s the only thing that crosses all cultures unlike spoken languages. The Fibonacci sequence is a breakdown of the universal connection we all share by using a ratio. The Golden ratio is the sequence that ties us all together as one. It’s why the iris of our eyes looks like the spiral of our galaxy. It’s natures code that’s found within us. Our DNA carries trace elements found only within stars- hence the saying, we are made from stardust. It’s a design that no human can actually replicate because it’s of a divine purpose. Hence the saying, we are created by design with purpose. From the smallest trace minerals that I see under a microscope, to the largest fossils I’ve unearthed, that sequence exists in us too. The distance between tree rings to the arrangement of pine cone points all correspond to this sequence. Recording a song in the golden ratio is not only damn hard, but actually genius. He was tapping into something that our brains would naturally enjoy. Almost like a universal truth that we all hold, yet don’t know why or where it came from. As above, so below- the principles of correspondence. Whatever happens in nature or the stars is reflected in the human body. The biological link we all have. Sometimes you feel it in a song, at a spiritual teaching, or out in nature. People record songs in certain tones and frequency’s that audiologists have shown are pleasurable to the human ear. Dr. Dre was the first to actually record a whole album (Eminem) by using this technique. The music industry now does this on a majority of songs. It’s why crappy songs with a catchy hook sound good. They are simply tapping into a part of your brain that enjoys those tones. It’s also why we have unfortunately lost our ability to feel a real connection to our surroundings and people. If any that makes any sense😂. Now that I’ve wrote a thesis….again, at least it’s kinda a starting point for anyone who wants to look a little deeper into what the spiral 🌀 actually is. I can see that your brain is picking up on the small details in the polyrhythms and enjoying the experience the music makes you feel. There’s no right way to listen to TOOL! Anyone who says you’re doing it wrong, is being technical and not feeling the music. You never just listen to music, you need to feel something from it. Only look as deep as you want. It’s your own interpretation that matters, because that’s how it makes you feel. Don’t let the pretentious fans keep you from enjoying music that reaches levels you can’t find in todays market. I hope you guys try a few songs from his band A Perfect Circle. It’s definitely a pallet cleanser and more straight forward, but the same craftsmanship with a more mellowed approach. IMO -🖤 From Louisiana
I'm a long time Tool fan but I never dig too deep into this stuff. Yes, I know of their use of Fibonacci sequences and other fun time signatures, but I don't want to know everything about it. I want some mystery as well. Just listening to and appreciating the music is enough for me.
The whole point of using the Fibonacci sequence is how you may keep expanding the equation and going further and further, the song is also about expanding and spiraling out beyond your boundaries. These two relate to eachother. That's why it's perfect.
Firstly, Dig you channel. I have a bit of an obsession with watching people listen to Tool for the first time. I pretty much grew up on Tool, so it's cool to see someone gravitate to it. Regarding Lateralus, and it's use of the Fibonacci sequence as a basis for a song, and not really attempting to speak for the artist, I believe the idea of the song and ultimately the Album as a whole is about growth. the sequence mathematically defines a spiral. This is why it is so common in nature. It literally is the equation to fill space. I believe the point is about growth and a song to encourage growth, be it personal, spiritual, etc. This is just a song in what is really an album about a concept. Every Tool album tends to be around a struggle... this one (to me) is about growth and assentation or descension dependent on your relative perspective. the struggle to grow and the struggle of growth. Consider the lyrics and the idea of widening your view of reality and/or what is "possible".
Completely understand what you mean. Just remember the song that you heard when you heard it, and not what you learned about it afterward! When you listened to it, got goosebumps, and let it touch your soul, you weren't thinking about anything other than what it made you feel in that moment. THAT is what is important when listening to, not only TOOL, but any other music that moves you. Much love, brothers.
The lyrics of the song also make reference to the sequence - “swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human” - the sequence occurs naturally in spirals including DNA which is what makes us humans. “spiral out, keep going” 🧬🌀
To me, this is more about the celebration of nature and everything around you than just creating music around numbers. Like stated in the interview, you can see it in the ratios of different parts of human anatomy, in flower structures, in nautilis shells, etc. I know you say you don't care what's under the hood, you just want to drive fast, but there are people do want to see what's under the hood. I don't think it necessarily takes away from the magic, but adds to it. Seeing how everything universally comes together is just as beautiful. Keep in mind, your body, your brain, every cell of your being can be broken down to some form of mathematical equation. This is what creates you as a conscious being. It's within you, it's without you. So in the end, it is not trying to use the math to be deep, it is celebrating what is here, there, and everywhere. It really puts things into perspective. If things can be intrinsically broken down to smaller and smaller parts, it goes the same in the opposite direction. We are all super tiny in the grand scheme of what we know of the universe. Love your videos. keep them coming. And don't listen to the fanatics. They're nuts.
anyone else laugh when he said ' part of me' thinks maybe they are taking this too far? i was like yeah. thats a song too. TBH these guys ARE DEEP. If things like divine proportions, the golden ratio etc are fundamentals in nature, sure it makes sense that its actually a CORE power of reality - using that in the song is natural too.
Mathematics is a natural thing, just as music is it is actually a perfect fit. I don't really believe someone "invented" math. It was discovered, like music was.
If you think about it, we are all born with a built in abacus on our hands. Its a 10 digit metric system. We are intended to work out math in nature. We are born with this ability, its natural.
I find it hilarious that they used the sequence in the song and got everyone counting, dissecting, and focusing. Then drop the chorus “Overthinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.” Lol. It’s like a little prank on the listener. Like leave the counting to us and enjoy the ride. Feel the rhythm, feel connected, feel inspired. Then draw it all together with Spiral out and keep going. Spiral being a representation of the sequence just like the spiral of a galaxy that is never ending, but they’re telling the listener to quit overthinking and self sabotaging yourself and just start acting and doing productive things that align with your rhythm, connection , and inspiration. And don’t stop. Keep going . Which everyone knows now that line”spiral out” has become pretty much the mantra of Tool Army.
It's really not that complicated or intricate, it sounds more advanced than it really is. The fibonacci sequence just refers to a sequence of numbers that build on the numbers before them; 0+1=1, 1+1=2, 1+2=3, 2+3=5, 3+5=8, 5+8=13, etc. This sequence can be found all throughout nature in the way that things grow and develop. The length of your fingers for instance can be broken down by the length of each bone, the smallest bone representing the length of 1, the next bone is the length of 2, the next bone 3, and the last bone 5. Each step of the sequence is larger than the step before, but it grows at the same ratio, which is referred to as the golden ratio. Tool didn't build some complicated musical structure that follows this sequence in some intricate way. All that really happens is Maynard sings the syllables in the verse in this sequence, and references spirals as the sequence often creates spiral structures in nature. The music itself really doesn't have much to do with this idea at all though some will argue the time signatures are related to it in a very roundabout way, but really this is just about the vocals and lyrics. So the verse syllables follow the sequence up and back down again and are as follows; Black(1), then(1), white are(2), all I see(3), in my infancy(5), red and yellow then came to be(8), reaching out to me(5), let's me see(3). There is(2), so(1), much(1), more it(2), beckons me(3), to look through to these(5), infinite possibilites(8). As below so above and beyond I imagine(13), drawn outside the lines of reason(8), push the envelope(5), watch it bend(3). What is most interesting in this song to me is how Maynard takes this idea of the golden ratio, implements it in the syllables he sings, and connects the larger meaning of the song to the natural phenomenon of the fibonacci sequence. However, for many years Maynard played this off as if it wasn't his intention and it was just a coincidence, they also didn't include lyrics in the booklet for this album, so they really didn't want people thinking about this too much but people figured it out anyways lol.
So here is what I consider to be a no bullshit take of why this is cool. When most people first hear the song Lateralus, they just hear it fir the sound of the song. It's a compelling and verymuch felt vibe. People listen to the lyrics and interpret them as something like a call to exponential personal expansion as evidenced in the fractal nature of life "as below so above and beyond I imagine". Then later they find out that the very rhythm of the song that they felt is based in the mathematical equation that describes that phenomenon in nature. It's the unity of the song meaning with the musical elements of the song itself that makes it intriguing.
The connection made between Tool writing Lateralus using a bit of the fibinacci sequence and Maynard's inclusion of the lyrics about a spiral was completely unintentional. This was detailed in the Revolver mag issue they did. This moment however was a healing one for that band, who at the time was facing a lot of internal drama.
I would assume that they just decided to do something different, especially Keenan, he's quite prolific so he's probably always looking for new ideas to avoid just doing the same old same old. I'm also pretty sure, maybe in that interview, he admitted it was kind of pretentious and that they didn't take it all that seriously.
Math and music are inextricable. Music is math AND art. The fibonacci sequence is present everywhere in nature and is linked to our perception of beauty. It's a perfect match with music.
I think it's just a cool creative exercise that they wanted to try. The fact that you don't know or didn't notice it when you heard the actual song makes the creative challenge that they undertook a success. To force the Fibonacci sequence in a musical composition is probably extremely challenging and I think could easily sound off. Tool's extraordinary ability to make complex music sound "simple" whilst retaining it's groove is their most precious quality.
I’ve seen a few quotes from Danny, the drummer, that they don’t really count it until later. It’s possible this happened here and then continued to work it once it was showing up.
The math and that particular sequence come into as the expression of a Spiral. Of reaching further and further, fulfilling within yourself, that sequence of expansion. Consciousness. The lyrics and the whole song try to wake us to this nature's sequence. They could have just used the lyrics for that but went a step further. And the journey of this song, even if you are not aware of the sequence within it, if you hear it enough times you start to feel it instead of listening. The same goes for other things you can find like the rithmes that may induce or change your brain's perception. All that are just adds-on to the experience of listening.
The Phi ratio or golden ratio is not only in nature but artist, architects and even consumer electronics manufacturers use it. It is a proportion that we relate to beauty and pleasing esthetics, hence it is prominent in Greek architecture and even the 16:9 ratio on your HD display. I think it is such an interesting concept known for centuries that is not known as well as it should. I applaud them for singing about and not just another silly heartbreak song
TooL is different. They are thinkers and push the boundaries of understanding. It makes their sound different. It's super technical, simple and structured. They look for conundrums and levels, so their music time signature is always the first thing people notice. It could be anything. This time The Lateralus used this sequence as a guide to their sound creation.
TOOL used the fibonacci sequence (ie. 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, ...) in the construction of the song Lateralus. As discussed in the video, this sequence shows up in nature all over the place and is related to spirals (wikipedia is a thing) and the golden ratio (Maynard talked about the golden ratio, ~1.618, in the interview you watched). If you listen to the lyrics in Lateralus you'll see that the syllables rhythmically follow the fibonacci sequence (going up or down). Here's a good video to watch if you're curious: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uOHkeH2VaE0.html
I havent watched the full video with you yet but when it comes to math in music you are actively doing math in music even when you "feel it" but that "feeling" you get is a natural inclination to understanding the mathematical stuff in music that you're playing. when it comes to compositions like TOOLs they are trying to take the music and pulse to another level and sometimes that does require math but I think something that most tool fans get wrong is that the beat for lateralus was thought up, then as a post-creation thought they realized that it followed the fibonacci sequence in a way, just based on how you can subdivide/count it - But it wasn't them hitting the drawing board and saying "lets make a song based on the fibonacci sequence". It was simply something they were smart enough to recognize and expand upon but yeah I don't want you to have the impression that these are a bunch of nerds cranking numbers before writing the music, the feel always comes first and thats the magic of tool. As much as you and I may hate math it is a core component of every fabric of our being and nature itself so while you may not realize it subconsciously every element of music is built upon math and the relationship of numbers.
Numbers however are very important to TOOL as they focus on numerology at times in their themes and sacred geometry is a massive interest for adam and danny mainly but the rest of the band too. Its why you see so many geometric symbols in their works and on danny's drum heads as an example
It was done by accident at 1st, the bass player come with a riff that went in 9 8 7, which is a fibonnaci number and sum1 pointed it out and then they went from there with the song
I think it happened on accident and they recognized it and leaned into it. It does have a spiral effect in the song though, not sure if it’s from the sequence.
I'm pretty sure the whole Fibonacci thing was an afterthought, what you watched wasn't the whole discussion, there's a part where maynard downplays it and calls it a juvenile stunt or something to that effect, i'm paraphrasing here but i think they just noticed after they started creating the song that it kinda followed the sequence. They didn't start the creation with fibonacci as the base of the song. Feel free to correct me if im wrong.
People are impressed with the depth of thought put into the song. The intent. When you play gospel chops that is full and sounds amazing to you, you recognize the artistry and inspiration but do you take time to break it down and understand the measurements that went into it? To understand why people find it beautiful? How something seemingly so chaotic, spontaneous, off beat, can be symmetrical and intentional?
As far as I'm concerned, the whole thing is just really cool trivia about this song in particular. Even Maynard says the tool army takes their music too seriously
If you listen to the rest of the interview, Maynard says he felt that the use of that sequence in the song (Lateralus) was "sophomoric". He lamented it and said it was unnecessary
So essentially this sequence can be found in all organic life on the planet. It's the building blocks for life That's why it's called the golden ratio. It's found in spiders webs the segments of insect bodies the spirals on shells it is the relation of one part of your arm to the other. So in the lyrics he says "black(1) and(1)" and then you add those two together for the next part of the lyrics "white are(2)" and then you add the sum of the last part plus those two together for the next part of the lyrics "all I see (3)" so the next part of the lyrics should be five right? "In my infancy" (5) and this is where you see that he's using the syllables not the words themselves. "Red and yellow then came to be (5+3=9 syllables) then he starts working back down "reaching out to me" (5 again) and this whole time the instruments are all playing in the Fibonacci sequence as well. It's not simply adding it's the proportional significance That's why you find it in everything proportionally correct in life. it's really quite mind-blowing I'm not religious but I am spiritual and as a religious man as you study this more you will see it as evidence of a higher power.
I like Tool and I like math, but it's a very simple sequence and really not too hard of a job. We all did poetry at school and did things like talk in Haiku. It's a unique song and I like the quirk of it, but it doesn't automatically make it a great song purely because of the math
Dude you’re already going to deep. The Fibonacci sequence is just a metaphor for a spiral. Everything in life uses the Fibonacci sequence, you don’t have to purposefully put it in, it’s already there. Look at the pictures of galaxies, or nautilus shells. It’s just a metaphor, ride the spiral dude.
If you watch the video and look at the album art it makes more sense. Danny is actually the one that uses the math when he writes the drum parts/time signatures
i hear you, but the point is shapes and arrangements that have fibonacci ratio (golden ratio) as their dimension coefficient are considered more beautiful. so maybe they wanted to see if there's a way to combine that idea of visual beauty in fibonacci series with music
Would love for you to listen to more music that SOUNDS a bit mathematically constructed, but isn't. Certain bands within the prog-metal/tech-metal genre definitely do this well. Animals as Leaders, TesseracT, Plini. Would love for more deep dives on those bands and songs! Some recommendations - Plini - Electric Sunrise, Handmade Cities TesseracT - Of Matter (Proxy, Retrospect, Resist), Of Mind - Nocturne Animals as Leaders - The Brain Dance, CAFO, Kascade Love your stuff guys :)
For some of us, knowing what's under the hood IS the magic. I think that is pretty common among STEM-focused individuals. Not to say artistic-minded people can't enjoy that kind of deep dive, but it is definitely more common with those of us who focus heavily on science and technology.
As far a I know Lateralus is the only song Maynard has done this on. I think most Tool fans probably thinks it’s kind of cool that he did it and just leave it at that. But there are some that really geek out on it.
So the message of his lyrics is as important to the understanding of fibonacci, as is the cadence of lyrics moving to a section of fibonacci (and adams guitar in sections). Fibonacci sequence traces the golden ratio which turns into a spiral. About growing from one simpler state of being and reaching out to keep on growing and experiencing life. From black and white is all I see (infants see black and white only for a while). To the outro. Spiral out. Keep on going.
A lot of people are overthinking it, which is odd when you consider the lyrics to this song. They've explained it interviews as something that just happened by accident and then the vocals added to it slightly for a small portion of the song.
Listen to the song again. Studio version. He is fusing nature and math because they are working together and used in some of the most famous artworks, so yeah it's deep but that's kick ass and the song needs to have lyrics pulled up. I loved the song before I knew anything about the math relationship, now I just appreciate it more.
I'm not great at math either, I can't completely grasp it, and with time I've come to understand the sequence and concept and I certainly appreciate the whole art of it.
very simple sequence when broken down properly: (0+1)=1 , (1+1)=2 , (2+1)=3 , (3+2)=5 , (5+3)=8 , (8+5)=13 , (13+8)=21 , (21+13)=34 , (34+21)=55 , etc.. 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,etc.. every step you just add the current answer to the answer before it.
You should have finished the video. He whent further into it. He also explains he didn't actually create the song with the fibonacci sequence in mind. It was just happenstance. He then goes on to accept that it is a thing, and explains maybe ALL songs are inherently using some form of Fibonacci. Which makes since, we do have common pattern and progressions within music that we all follow. Even after this interview Tool fans insist it was fully intential, and this amazing creation. I get it, I am a Tool fan myself, but it's even more impressive to me that this actually just happened organicly.
Phi, the golden ratio, turns up with any two numbers, if you add 7 to 213 and keep going, so 220 to 213, 433 to 220 etc you will always get the golden ratio
There's this movie called The Order of Chaos (Pi). It may help you grasp the idea of Fibonacci in Lateralus and the universe. Leonardo Da Vinci also used a golden ratio to frame his portraits, which in theory, makes everything inside the frame look more aesthetic, despite being a simple line.
The end of this section has Maynard saying he did it as a joke. Because Fibonacci is already in all music. The relationship between notes and harmonies.
But it's like they say in the bridge, 'over-thinking, over-analyzing separates the body from the mind'. They're talking about the need to take a step back and see the bigger picture. and using a form of neuro linguistic programming along with the competing instruments using different patterns is meant to do a number on your subconscious and help you be a better person. It's a bit like hypnotherapy but on the down low, shifty but for good reasons lol.
IMO, music can be anything from simple to overly complicated. Whatever methods/techniques someone uses to bring music to life, can be quite intriguing or fascinating. However, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters to me is, whether the music vibes with me or not.
I think you missed the point. Maynard didnt bring up the sequence. It is a mystery that you can discover in the entire album if you want to look the spiral mentioned is the hint but the song also talks about unhealthy obsessions. The point is not that you have to unwind the puzzle but that it is their if you want too.
You're not too dumb to get it... Those are all fair questions. I had a lot of the same questions... I think the idea is that the Fibonacci sequence is something that is all around us in nature and seems to be appealing to us as humans... So they tried to see if they could apply it to the pattern of the song... Which is a novel idea. As far as I understand, they only applied it to the number of words/syllables in each sequential measure. The Fibonacci sequence adds a number to the previous number in order to derive the next number, as follows: 0,1,1,2,3,5,8, etc. This is how the syllables of the lyrics line up to the sequence: 1: "Black" 1: "And" 2: "White are" 3: "All I see" 5: "In my in-fan-cy" 8: "Red and yell-ow then came to me." And so on. I don't think they applied the Fibonacci sequence to other aspects of the song. Like I said, it's a pretty novel idea... And it's interesting to think about... But enthusiastic fans can come on a little heavy in telling you how mind-blowing they think it is.
... to quote the Lyrics from the Tool Song you´re referring to : Over Thinking - Over Analyzing - Separates The Body From The Mind : yes, Welcome to Tool. Peace S.-)
So, the music was written before the lyrics, which is how Tool has always composed their songs. The song's working title was "987"... it was based on the main "chorus" riff which has a count of 9, followed by 8, then 7. It was a bass riff that Justin came up with initially, then the rest of the music elements of the song were kind of based off that starting point. One day a friend of theirs came into a rehearsal session and said, "oh, 987.... like the number in the fibonacci sequence". It was just kind of by coincidence really, the band never plotted to write a song based of the sequence. Maynard, at that time, was finding the more progressive music ideas to sing over. But based on their friend pointing out the number, Maynard took that and kind of made it a little inside joke with the band... "oh, you want to write a bunch of crazy time signatures its hard to sing over... here's a pattern I'll sing representing a nerdy math sequence."
Everything is math. And the Fibonacci sequence is the mathematical equation of a spiral, which seems chaotic at first, but then you see it has a pattern.
Guys, please react to Descending. I can't put into words what this song means to me and I only got to know Tool a year from now. Keep up the good work. Cheers from Brazil.
There is so much math behind music When you're used to it and dont count things its like counting without writing it down and doing only with your head... But prog usually tries to push a lot of their limits and they write some really weird or different things that without math it would be hard! So its alright to not use math and you can get a great song by feeling, but knowing the math behind it makes it easier or consistent
Music contains lots of maths. 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34.... you add the last number to the previous. The further up you go the closer you get too phi 1.618....... a number like pi that is irrational. The finger print of god. You probably use it in your music, without realising it. And knowing it just makes it more beautiful. It's in the spiral of sea shells or galaxies, or hurricanes. It's the average distance from the floor to your belly button, and your belly button to the top of your head. It is in the manibrot set, or the logistic map. Phi is every where. And trying not to sound like some new age hippy it is worth checking out. You may not like maths but this is more number. And it is absolutely fascinating.
I believe a channel that did a video on the whole sequence and Tool's usage of it is called Polyphonic: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uOHkeH2VaE0.html As far as math in music, the sterile nature of the subject for us in classrooms may have an influence on how you perceive the former being attached to the latter. That being said, music has many different ways of interpreting math for different means. There are swing feels, polyrhythms, and odd time signatures that can impact how a song is made and where a musician can find inspiration, and that's not even including stuff from outside Western musical practice. Most of us would balk at these numbers written in a textbook, but in the language of music it is just another medium to explore.
You need to hear the song to understand and appreciate it. “Lateralus”. The lyrics and music are amazing on their own. Then you find out about the Fibonacci and what it means and how they use it in the song and it’s kinda the cherry on top of a great song.
I feel you about the looking to deep bit. Can come off pretentious. The thing is, it's not like they came out with "hey we used fibonacci to make the perfect song." It actually just fits what the song is about and makes sense artistically that is all. It is math related, but it's one of those things where we use math to describe the objective truth of nature. The sequence is our attempt at explaining a fundamental truth of life, or god's design if that is your preferred flavor. People make so much of the fibonacci bit, but this isn't a math thing. The song "lateralus" is about finding truths and evolving discovering about self and life. It all just fits. It isn't a fucking math song lol
Good question about whether or not it's a too deep of a process but some people don't care about the process and some people do. So it's only too deep for people who don't care. Just my two cents but I enjoy your channel
Snarky Puppy - Lingus is a f-ing must! If you've ever trusted anyone before and it backfired, I assure you this is an impossibility of that outcome. Out of this world musicianship.
Yea bro, if you've never heard of this band, you very seriously gotta react to this track with your homie. The drummer is a monster. Everyone is an ace on their instrument. Listen to Shofuken or Outlier as a test run, and then react to the other. There's a very excellent live video for each song off of the album We Like it Here.
ok, dude it's like them saying, look we used this indian type of drum in this song that produces a different drum sound than the others we used... it's just a cool additional thing to keep making music that's fun and stimulating for the artist making it it's no more than that... it's just ANOTHER WAY to inject some variety... no one is calling it the perfect way to make a song or anything like that.... don't be defensive about overthinking it or worried that other people are overthinking it and will come after you if you don't
If you just want to be mesmerized by the emotions and musicality of a TOOL song, react to Aenema. You’ll get the same feeling you got from the Pot. That and it’s simply a song about them shitting on LA and asking Mother Earth to flush it all away. Incredible fucking song that just builds in that TOOL way you love
also, id definitely suggest welcoming the Tool Army and trying to 'get it' vs discounting it lightly - many a chan been stunted to hell n back with low level takes.
I like what you said with the wizard of oz! I totally understand where you’re coming from! I just think with lateralus and the Fibonacci sequence it shows that something so technical and great sounding was created through something that already exists? If that makes sense haha idk still glad you looked into it
For a better explanation/understanding of how the Fibonacci sequence is actually included in the song check out " How tool used mathematics to write "Lateralus"! This video breaks down how it's applied! RU-vid it brother! 👍🏼 It blows our minds that they can pull this off so effortlessly .........it will blow your minds!!! :)
Calm Down, Music is Maths, time signatures, the musical scale, the endless combinations of both, it's all maths but expressed in sound, which is also maths..
One thing to point out is that Tool doesn't use this for all of their songs. It was a one-time thing. Somebody came up with the idea and the rest of the group went "sure, why not?!". And we now have Lateralus! :) Why they did it? Well, because they can! Should they have done it? Why not! There's a billion songs in 4/4, and 1 song in Fibonacci... Cool! Does this mess with the natural creativity and magic that we appreciate in music? I don't think so. Creativity is exactly that! Come up with shit and implement them. Tool fans can sometimes be over excited about this and be like "greatest song ever, fibonacci in music, how amazing, aaaargh"... But in the end of the day, that's not what's great about this song. Lateralus is great because it sounds great! I mean, I loved it before I knew about the Fibonacci thing, and I still love it today!
the way to look at it is this. The Fibonacci is the pattern that nature follows in many things. And it always presents in ways that are pleasing to our innate senses. For example, how flower petals are arranged. How Arches are built. The ratios of our bodies, and limbs follow this pattern. What if someone were to take that pattern and present it in Music. Would our beings react in the same manner - finding intrinsic beauty in it? That is what these guys attempted to do, in the song Lateralus. Spiral out!
The Universal Language of Creation/The Universe, simply put. To answer your question, no. You can never go too deep on attempting to understand the nature of reality. Why else are we here. In my opinion/belief, we are nothing more than an expression of source consciousness experiencing itself.
Fibonacci sequence is the ratio of life.. i mean the only reason its significant is cause it shows up all over the place in random seemingly unrelated things, and no one knows why...
Thats the interest. Music is maths, whether we're aware of that or not. Rhythm, scales, pitch, harmony. They all depend on maths. This sequence is already out there in the world, with or without our intention or our awareness. The idea behind the song (Lateralus) is growth and development. Hence 'spiral out' and why the Fibonacci sequence works. It's not essential the enjoying the song, it's just a small Easter egg they put in there. 😉
It's funny how he works out making songs by writing the music before the lyrics. I recently watched 'Rocketman' about Elton John and most of his career he had a friend write the lyrics for him and he was able to make the music from after. Some people's brains just work different.
Hmmm, I think you should've finished the video as it would gve you a slight more insight into it. Also, I've seen Maynard go into a little bit more detail regarding this subject (I think it's actually on this same interview) where he actually explains that they did not plan it to happen, they just realized at some point that the time signatures being used were refering to the Fibonacci sequence and from there on he decided to add the sequence also into the lyrics.
This video of Joe and Maynard discussing it doesn't show how it was practically used in the song. They're just talking theory. There's a video called "The Mathematics of Lateralus" that explains it in detail. I doubt you'll do another video to show how it plays into the song. But if you feel like spiraling out on your own I would recommend that video. It's much better at explaining how it was technically used in the song.
Math isn't something you invented. Mathematics is something that has been discovered. Math is in everything. Especially in music. Even if it's about the feeling of course. But it's not like there's no feeling in it. On the contrary. The chorus changes from a 9/8 to an 8/8 to a 7/8 bar. The working title was therefore 9-8-7. The band later determined that 987 is the 16th number in the Fibonacci sequence. That's why the singing is partly based on Fibonacci numbers. (1) Black, (1) then, (2) white are, (3) all I see, (5) in my in•fan•cy, (8) red and yel•low then came to be, (5) rea•ching out to me, (3) lets me see. (2) There is, (1) so, (1) much, (2) more and (3) beck•ons me, (5) to look through to these, (8) in•fi•nite pos•si•bil•i•ties. (13) As be•low so a•bove and be•yond I im•ag•ine, (8) drawn be-yond the lines of rea•son. (5) Push the en•ve•lope. (3) Watch it bend. It´s not like the whole Song is played from a calculator 😅
