As a Pentecostal of many years (including serving as a pastor and Bible College teacher) I have only encountered Oneness Pentecostals who consider tongues (along with baptism in Jesus name) to be evidence of salvation. I know of no trinitarian Pentecostals who believe this.
As a Foursquare Pastor I 100% agree on all 5 points. It is really important for us as Pentecostals & Charismatics to recognize our weaknesses so that we can become the best we can be.
From a very conservative Lutheran: Really interesting list, especially your Bible-based understanding of the role of women in the Church. Your points, if implemented, would radically change the ethos Pentecostalism. From an outsider's perspective, your points aren't just fringe points, they appear part of the fabric of who Pentecostals are. I find your channel very interesting. I like the focus on the Word of God in its various translations, I've learned a lot about books and publishing, and you are thoughtful and faithful in your theology. Respect.
Speaking as a retired A/G minister, I agree with your list and believe the points are presented in a good logical order. I would add that numbers (in attendance) and money (both in individuals and churches) are too often treated as signs of favor and authority even in churches, sections, and districts that do not promote prosperity teaching.
In agreement brother. If I would have had a pastor like you in the AOG Church, I may not have left and gone to a Reformed Church. There just seemed to be too much immaturity and shallowness in the study of the Word, and too much focus on emotions. It was difficult to have a deep conversation on Theology with brothers and sisters because... they just didn't seem interested.
I love this video, as an ex Pentecostal who became Lutheran I think all of these critiques are honest and necessary. I have no ill will towards the church that God brought me into repentance in but I wish them the best and these critiques would deeply help all Pentecostals.
I’ve really received a lot of Pentecostal insight from the late Derek Prince. He has many books available and teachings online. Many are very theological in nature and from a staunch Pentecostal perspective.
To have a catechism would be so helpful. Problems that would arise would be people saying that you have a religious spirit when you disagree what they are convinced that God gave them a revelation. Dr Michael Brown put out a document about testing the Prophetic and many refused to sign it. A catechism would get rid of a lot of the fringe and abuses in Pentecostal movement.
I am not Pentecostal, but I have attended quite a few services at Pentecostal churches and have many friends who attend Pentecostal churches. Your points are correct especially the first two points. The lack of discipleship is very apparent, and not to be mean but many Pentecostal people will fall for false teachings because “it sounds spiritual”. And I have found that many of the pastors and leaders are unwilling to further their theological education out of fear that it will challenge their beliefs and traditions. Also I am dealing with a number of atheists who post on RU-vid. Most claim to have deconstructed out of the Christian faith. The vast majority of these folks are former Pentecostals, with a few IFB’s. They talk about the emotional abuse that they experience in the church mostly due to asking questions and being told they don’t have enough faith or they need to pray more, all very superficial responses. They report that when the “emotional high” went away they felt empty and believed that there was something wrong with them. Many also noted that they faked the gifts of the spirit (tongues and prophecy) so that they could fit in, but over time they realized it was just them faking and they concluded that it was all fake. When I challenged them on what they believed, they would talk about the practices that they participated in, no substance or knowledge of what Christianity is, it was very much an emotional experience. I think Pentecostal pastors need to be aware of this and start dealing with these folks. Lastly egalitarianism is unbiblical. 1 Timothy 3 makes it clear that the position of Pastor is for men only. 1 Timothy 3:2, and repeated in Titus 1:6, that he must be the HUSBAND of one wife. A woman cannot be a husband. The word is not spouse in the Greek it is husband and it is the same word used throughout the New Testament. So if the Pentecostal Church wants to be faithful to the Biblical teachings it must adopt male only Pastors.
I agree with you. While in a period of crisis I went to the local Pentecostal church because a lady I knew went there. After about a year then chose to leave. The female pastor of the husband and wife team took most sermons, the doctrine was severely lacking and confused, and when I called on the pastors to come help me with a major crisis in my home they threw their hands up, on the phone, and said they did not think they could help. The one person I met there, now my closest friend, he stepped up when I cried out for assistance, so this is the blessing of God over my life. 🙏📖✝️💟
As a Reformed Baptist, I would point you to Gordon Fee for good theological work from a Pentecostal-leaning Evangelical perspective. God's Empowering Presence, and his Pauline Christology are both 1st rank works of Biblical Theology.
Although not as voluminous as I'd like them to be, there are two theological works I would like to mention: - Apostolic Theology, A Trinitarian Evangelical Pentecostal Introduction to Christian Doctrine, by Jonathan Black, and - Tongues of Fire, A Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith by Frank D. Machia. They are not the end all, be all, but they are worth reading.
My Pentecostal Church is pastored by a husband and wife pastoral team with our lead Pastor being the Reverend head over the whole church. I agree this feels like the right divine order to me. Our lead Pastor guides the whole church and supports his wife who is the head of women’s and youth ministry but I’m not sure I would be comfortable with a church where a single woman was leading without a husband. That would feel out of order. I agree.
Hey brother, I've subbed for a while now and I live in Sweden and I am a member of a pentecostal church. I feel like my church has done away with some of these errors, however I'd like the Swedish pentecostal denomination to have some sort of confession of faith that is exclusive salvificly (Christ alone) but inclusive (arminians and calvinists) like the SBC in USA has. Pentecostalism is basically the last denomination standing against liberalism in Sweden and I pray that we remain so.
Great video! While it’s true that it doesn’t quite hold up to Grudem’s Systematic Theology, I love the AG work you mentioned from Stanley Horton and others. As well as the commentary set. Some other great Pentecostal systematic theologies are * Foundations of Pentecostal Theology - Guy Duffield & Nathaniel M. Van Cleave * Tongues of Fire - Frank Macchia * Apostolic Theology - Jonathan Black * Christian Doctrine: A Pentecostal Perspective - French Arrington (though more on the Wesleyan Pentecostal side). I’ve also seen Amos Yong’s Renewing Christian Theology described as a systematic theology, but have never explored it myself.
As an Assemblies of God minister, I hold the M.Div. from Fuller Seminary. My former colleague Dr. Allen Tennison could write a formal catechism for us.
Good points. As one who has spent a good deal of life in Pentecostal circles, I find many of the points well made. Just a few considerations: Theological depth is important but sometimes I think a "systematic theology" consists of filling in the blanks (mysteries) in the Word with human reasoning. That is, in fact, what I consider to be a weakness of reformed theology. I don't think it's necessary to reinvent the wheel just because it isn't Pentecostal, take what the Lord has already gifted the church with and use it. Your points about excesses are well-stated. Sadly, what Paul addressed the Corinthians about is still going on today - and being used by the cessationists to divide the church. A creed is good, but why not take a standard one, like the Nicene Creed, and add a statement about the continuation of the gifts? Again, it seems like there is little need to start from scratch. Better to hold fast to the "faith once delivered to the saints".
I have attended Pentecostal churches for most of my 66 years. Thankfully, I have had pastors who were excellent expositors of the Word. On the subject of theology, I recently told a friend that I know so many Pentecostal preachers whose theology is about skin deep. Again, my pastors preached and taught the Word, and put little emphasis on experience, which can lead one down a very bad path, and to me this is one of the worst things going on in Pentecostal churches today.
Great points all around.Tim. I am part of Foursquare and we have tne Foundations of Pentecostal Theology (can find it on Amazon, Logos etc.) But like you said, we need more. I too wish we had a Catechism. Alao, can you suggest any good RU-vid channels that focus on Bible study done by Pentecostals?
Check out Apostolic Theology by Jonathan Black. Also, Renewal Theology by J Rodman William. These two are the only solid Pentecostal Systematic Theology that exists.
Renewal Theology: Systematic Theology from a Charismatic Perspective by J Rodman Williams is a solid and good source for Charismatic - Pentecostal theology, Gordon Fee's book a AG pastor and Craig Keener books too ....
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews I do admit that Dake has some issues with the Trinity and a few other things but I agree with him on more than I disagree with him. As far as his personal life he did make a few bad choices but he is human and I think we all have personal issues we have to deal with as well.
Great video. I recently went from a traditional Bible church to a more charismatic church where I see the emotion and feelings really raise some red flags to me I am not sure are always of the Holy Spirit talking but is presented to me as such.
You should have come over to the upci. Yes I'm one of them. I couldn't understand the bible till I saw Jesus Christ is The Lord of Glory, The Father incarnate.
My father says that all believers should speak in tongues. Basing this off of Paul’s writings where he says that he wishes that we all spoke in tongues. And since Paul’s writings are inspired of God that’s the same as Jesus saying we should all speak in tongues. However, my reading of the surrounding passage, that doesn’t hold up in my mind since Paul is saying some will have this give and some this and others this. Then he says tongues, (I’m paraphrasing) I wish you’d all have this gift if you could, more so the gift of prophecy. I don’t get from that that everyone should have all the gifts.
While I understand your points and mostly agree, I would like to remind you of resources for theology. First, the AG website has several features. The 16 core beliefs, a number of position papers, and some other helps are out there. That’s at least a start. There are some works by Derek Prince on Holy Spirit Doctrine which, does not cover everything, but is quite extensive. Another source which I personally find quite valuable are the editions of the Pentecost Evangel that are included each week as an addendum to the AG News I get by email. They are available for most of the 20th Century. Some of those teaching articles from the early decades of the Assemblies of God go very deep and intense. I think someone should publish a series of books, or at least online collections , of articles by topic. So much meat there.
Derek Prince taught Christians could be demon possessed while spirit filled. I’m well aware of our position papers. Notice I mentioned systematic and in print.
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews So I guess my two were different and more doctrinal. Two things that many Pentecostals (especially AG churches) teach that I'm not in full agreement with are: 1. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is evidenced by speaking in tongues 100% of the time. I think it's the norm, but I wouldn't make that blanket statement personally. 2. The pre-tribulation rapture of the church. I just don't see solid evidence of it in scripture. I see more evidence of being protected through the tribulation. (Just for the record, I'm a tongue talking Pentecostal Christian who goes to an AG church. LOL)
I was just using the AG doctrine as an example since this was specifically about Pentecostal issues/concerns. You're absolutely correct though, most main line Evangelical churches have held that belief for the last hundred (plus) years. All that said, that's a secondary doctrine as I see it. 👍
The whole speaking in tongues WITHOUT interpretation goes against 1 Corinthians 14. I'd like to point out that some UPCI churches are heavy KJV Only, even the pastors in those churches are hardcore KJV Only. What are your thoughts on that @anickelsworthbiblereviews? Could you do a video about that?
About Systematics etc: As a part of the tradition, not sure why we'd need a whole Pentecostal systematic, as the distinctives are second, third, forth tier ideas. Read a solid evangelical Systematic then pickup Stanley Horton or somthing else from AGTS. ;)
On your first point, I kept waiting for you to reference _Renewal Theology: Systematic Theology from a Charismatic Perspective_ by J. Rodman Williams, but you never did. Are you not familiar with it? It was first released in 3 separate volumes from the late 1980s to the early '90s. Then in 1996 Zondervan Publishing released a "three volumes in one" hardback edition. That's the one I have. I'm not enamored with catechisms or creedal statements, so i differ with you on that point. But I'm with you on testing "words" and experiences against the Word of God, on the "promoting too early" problem and on the Biblical roles of man and woman versus the "egalitarian emphasis" that is so prevalent today.
I enjoyed watching this video. I have visited some Pentecostal churches and was put off by some of the things you listed. I know every church is different, so I may have visited churches that are outliers. Since I grew up Reformed, I am curious what you meant when you said some Pentecostals and Reformed churches can get carried away with the extreme Grace gospel. I respect your opinion, and I am interested in what you have to say. (I don't mean any offense by asking.) Since I am in the Reformed bubble, I am genuinely interested in hearing a different perspective.
If someone is very cautious about subjective, present-tense leadings of the Holy Spirit, why even be Pentecostal? I don't know you so wouldn't want to judge your own stance, but when I hang around theologically-inclined corners of the internet that claim the name Pentecostal (or Charismatic or Continuationist) and they seem overly wary, or always emphasise the dangers inherent in these practices, I wonder why they even identify with the movements at all. There's one very popular RU-vidr I followed who described himself as a believer in the gifts, for example, but then in one recent video he said (almost as a point of pride, probably to bolster an image of intellectual giftedness) that he only "once or twice" has had any prophetic or "revelatory" words. It is something I've observed a number of times - academically gifted Pentecostal theologians who want to distance themselves from appear to *actually* have supernatural experience. I can think of people I know in real life like this. I don't know, at that point I think you may as well just be a Baptist and be done with it. I personally am tired of the "open but cautious" thing now.
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews I apologise brother for what I implied in my comment here. I have now watched the video about why you are a Pentecostal and better understand the context from which you were speaking. I think this can happen to people - when one experiences a pattern or behaviour that is negative...one can accidentally read it into other places that appear superficially similar. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of your previous work. 🙂
May I ask are the Pentecostal church’s in Canada similar to those in the USA? Also I disagree it’s not confusing at all. I think we need to stop massaging men’s egos we don’t live in Paul’s time
Fellow Canuck here. the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada is the 🇨🇦Cousin to the the AoG. Although it’s a separate denomination there are some close ties. I trained at a PAOC college and had the AoG’s publications for some textbooks. There’s also the Pentecostal Assemblies of Newfoundland - if that’s were your at. ( a separate entity due to being formed b4 Newfoundland joined Canada) Another great Pentecost fellowship is the Fellowship of Christian Assemblies.- theologically the same but more strictly congregational in polity. I was part of a FCA church for over a decade.
It’s almost as if the Church has no History and there is no looking back to what has transpired over time. I hear a lot of this is what the Bible says with different interpretations and outcomes. This is what the Word of God says, but you have no idea what the Greek even means and how it was used in the Church. I have listened to “Biblical Scholars” with PHD’s who only really understand their own denomination or worse no denomination that can’t agree with other Biblical scholars. I’m not a Theologian but History is my forte. If you want to learn begin with The Shape of the Liturgy by Gregory Dix he was a Protestant. Liturgical History would answer so many of your questions. Hopefully if you’re unable follow or understand it’s History you might need a gentle introduction to Liturgical History. Remember the Liturgy came before the New Testament Books put in the New Testament where derived through the established Liturgy.
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews The Liturgy already existed in the same time frame. What then was derived from Acts how did we Worship, the Apostles did not leave them without a way to Worship. So you understand totally what Worship was just from Acts and how it was accomplished. You are at a very high level of understanding and knowledge please share the Early Church worship with us. I know that your response was fast and off the cuff lacking thoughtful historical analysis, but please consider researching this it will surprise you.
Acts Chapter Two vs 42 and they were attending constantly in the teaching of the Apostles and in the fellowship and in the breaking of bread and in the prayers. The last word in Greek is Leitourgia. (Liturgy) work of the people. In the. Greek Orthodox Church it is a. Reference to a set pattern of liturgical prayers. So yes the Liturgy is in Acts but not defined by the Apostles in Scripture, but always there in Scripture and in practice in Church history
@@anickelsworthbiblereviews Cohesive, sure. But if "systematic theology" is synonymous with "theology", why would we need to have a category called "systematic theology"?
