I really like having a simple OSD. For one thing the voltage & armed/disarmed. voltage warning flash up. & I like having a centre target. (I disble the horizon) Thats handy, but of course you could do without it. However the indispensable useage in my opinion is to be able to change your PID settings.
I run a separate "free wired" circuit for all my video gear with the wires twisted together (for what little it's worth). I run 4S, so I have a 12v regulator to drop the voltage which also takes out the surges and spikes from active damping (biggest source of interference). 12v wires then run to the VTX, up to the OSD, then to the camera. Putting the video signal through the PDB is just madness!
I don't fully agree with you on not having an osd. Yes I definitely concur regarding not needing a horizon display BUT I can't rely on my taranis these days to tell me when my battery is low as a good punch out will get the taranis lady telling me that it's time to come back and land as my voltage is critical. So a mah and voltage osd readout is imperative IMO
I don't know anything about taranis but I think you could set a switch to tell you exactly mAh burned or voltage. I think finalglide did something similar in a video somewhere
Not without a current sensor, which is added weight. And voltage changes depending on capacity and also how much is being drawn at any given point. It's much easier to visually see reliable data than have it announced to you anyways. Now i do agree with the horizon line, absolutely pointless. I've been using an osd+pdb for a while now, and it sucks flying something else with fpv without an osd
You can do what I do. I use one of the switched I am not uiseing that is easy to get to while flying and pull it back once and she tells me the voltage and what ever eles I need. There are so many options out there bro.
Bruce, I think shielding is only half of the problem, the other half is lack of star grounding. When you're dealing with high pulsed currents like those generated by ESCs, ground bounce becomes a huge problem.
I read somewhere that the Beerotor ultra PDB has some extra capacitors in-line with the ESCs to minimize the noise. I guess they are not working at all? There is also an electrolytic capacitor provided with the kit.
Mr. Bruce. Would twisting the ESC and all long run wires together help cut down on overall noise? I agree that some OSDs simply provides too much information. Like flying looking thru partially closed Venation blinds. I would like a battery level, out of the direct line of sight, in a corner of the screen. Very informative video. Do the Chinese actually ever test the quads they are peddling to us consumers?
I would say the problem is not "camera-osd-vtx distance" only. Its also the amount of noise on power line from ESC. Those big capacitors had a purpose after all. Luckily good LC filter fixes the problem. Too bad cheap PDBs have crappy filters
I fly with a setup with no telemetry so I do like an OSD but I don't like having all the information on most of them. About all I want is battery voltage and the timer to show.
Well these continuing issues with off the shelf quads only serves to reinforce my conviction that carefully self constructed multirotors are the way to go always (except I would agree that it would be nearly impossible to make your own high quality DJI Mavic or Phantom 4 from scratch). The only off the shelf quad I ever bought was an eachine 250 and it needed rebuilding as well before I was happy with it (hopeless CMOS camera, etc), it now sits on the shelf unloved since my homemade quads are way more fun. However it's true that not everyone can solder and can invest the time needed to build their own quads but the rewards if you do so are huge, and if you want to seriously race quads you must understand all technical aspects of them anyway. I find Bruce's troubleshooting very educational as it could apply to problems with any home built quad (RF interference, etc).
Bruce, ever tried to check the capacitors on each ESC? I would check those capacitors on them to make sure it's working properly. If needed, I will add bypass capacitors as well. That would help clear noises. But that wouldn't be necessary as my DYS Lightning's video is working nicely.
I also used to think that OSD was just a waste, but I don't any more. I put a micro minim on all builds now. I have volts and flight timer showing, which when you are used to it is really nice and I now much prefer that before telemetry. Also it allows you to change rates, pids and all that jazz without hassle. Try running OSD a few weeks and see if you don't feel the same Bruce. It's a but more work when building, but once it's there it's really nice to have. Much less intrusive than a lot of false voice warnings due to voltage sag.
It is probably noise from power lines or something coupled to the lenght of wire needed for osd. Perhaps you could just bypass the osd (jumper the video diretly to transmitter). Antenna coax should not be the suspect, they aren't sensitive like the input side of the transmitter.
I agree to a certain degree on the OSD reasoning, but I like having the voltage on my display since even telemetry gives alot of false warnings when the burst voltage in a throttle punchout dips below the voltage limits. Need a time delay on the voltage dips (only trigger warning if voltage is below voltage limit over 10 seconds as an example) which may be possible on the Taranis, but I have not figured that part out yet. And I also like to have a visual indication ofmthe floght mode. Sure I can probably set a switch to read that for my, but that removes stick-focus from flying the quad. But the artificial horizon line need not be there, nor the tilt angle unless you have a quad with servocontrolled fpv camera, then it is a must.
Watch the rotor riot video on setting up the taranis. In that Chad sets it up to wait for the voltage to be under the cut off for 2 seconds before announcement. For summary. Logical switch A
Jens Petter IkkeOppført A perfect OSD is only battery voltage and a timer I think. I personally hate flying with a group where everyone uses their Taranis...as all I hear is everyone's TX making obnoxious sounds and voices the whole time making it impossible to hear anything useful.
I was out testing the Ideafly F210 today (probably the one you mentioned with Ali) and it has the same noise. I am curious though, as all my custom builds I have the cam up front, run the wires to the matek pdb in the middle, and run the other wires to the back with the VTX. I do select 5v for the cam and 12v for the vtx, but I didn't think it filtered it, yet I have never had ANY noise on anything custom.
I have an Emaz Nighthawk 200 Pro and cant get rid of my crap video. I have tried several PDB's including a high end £30 one but still no good. Used to have a ZMR with a nucleus PDB and that was perfect but I am running out of ideas on this one. Looking forward to part two.
RCModelReviews How do you feel about pigtail extensions? Would it be better for me to direct solder a pigtail to my VTX instead of use an extension to a through-hole sma antenna mount?
Hey RCModelReviews I am planning on making a quad, not meant for 100% racing and I was wondering if their is a way to get camera signal about 300m away?
In my early days I almost ruined two batteries by thinking I would notice the OSD telling me the voltage was getting low instead of using an audible alarm. I never bother with them on a miniquad these days.
actually i found osd on miniquad very helpful.. agree that horizon is bs, but voltage, current, mah consumed, and flight time are very important to me.. i want build any mini without it.. i got same fc on two minis working perfect.. both are very tight buids (even tighter than that one), and no interference at all even at 70+ amps throttle punchouts.. "will i puff my battery or not?", i wont take chances on that.. osd is friend..
That's switched mode power supply issues.. Unfortunately they are now the norm taking over from Linear.. But In this application Linear would be far better for video performance.. I run a switched mode from the battery and cascade it into a linear reg.. That way I can keep the efficiency of the linear reg high by only sending about a volt more than it wants into it.. Doesn't have to burn off the battery voltage as heat.. Clean video every time..
Hi RCModel I have the same problem. so much noise in my video isn't funny. Im new at building been trying to solve the trouble. Im at the point I don't fly it anymore just to much noise in it. Thanks for this learning video. Helps me understand more. Left a like and thank you bless
Having an OSD is much more than an artificial horizon and voltage readout. I have voltage and mah consumed on screen as well as time armed. Just those 3 on the bottom. But, the biggest reason I use these same exact boards with built in OSD on 3 quads is tuning. Tuning is so much easier with the OSD. No need to lug around a laptop and connect every time. But I'm here because on my 130 frame ,my video is horrible, gonna try this out!
Hi Bruce! I would like to ask about the buzzer that this beeRotor has. how loud is it? I've found a similar one but the comments say that it's not loud if it's on 5volt that gets from the FC
l have a couple mini quads and the ESC interference in video signal is much worse than yours. l use a standalone 3S lipo for FPV and l do not connect any of the FPV wires to the PCB. Even though l neither can fix the noise it with LC filters between small lipo and FPV transmiter or a common bank of 6 capacitors just before ESCs. Only idea left l have is to warp ESCs with a wire mesh or aluminum foil to break the eletromag field. Any further clue?
Does the fact that carbon actually resists and challenges electron paths, somewhat conductive and the noise is not properly isolated between processors and resistors?
I love your comments.. " who the hell has time to look at an artificial horizon" so true.. I agree. I hate OSD it's an absolutely unnecessary accessory.
Hi Bruce great channel I need some help I'm building a skywalker 1900 and I'm putting a immersionrc 700mw 2.4ghz in the wing what is the best way the run the wires back to the fuselage I'm worried about rf noise etc thanks for your time
I have a weird FPV noise problem...Could you please give me an advice. ,,,and help....;) I have a QAV X 214 using an Omni bus F4 V3 FC , FVT Little Bee 20A ESC. I have already installed 470 uF Low ESR cap (damaged, its bended during crash and i havent replaced yet) in Lipo XT60 connector in PDB (matek Mini PDB). I wired Camera and and Vtx direct to Omibus. they are V bat and AGND (common video ground). the problem......the video is clean enough, but when i punch out the throttle the video is wavy but i still see them. this is very annoying to me to do some fly maneuver.....what was goin on? - do i have to replace my cheap 12V camera? - do I have to replace damage cap? - do i have to instal LC filter - do i have to install low esr cap in each little bee (there's no room sir for QAV X....) your help and advice will be highly appreciated.
Very good video Bruce. Do you have a video talking about quadcopters (or tricopters for that matter) for photography? I dont want to spend hundreds of dollars on a name brand overpriced shiny quad that has a 10 minute flight time. *cough phantom cough* Right now the plan is to buy a turnigy transmitter and do the frsky mod which you made in another video, and build my own frame and slap the electronics and cameras on. 1 for FPV and the other for photography. any tips or places to look to help? i haven't been in the RC game for a while, and i dont have experience with quads/tri's. Thanks
I hate to break it to you but the DJI Phantoms are not shitty or overpriced. You won't be able to build anything with the same kind of video quality for less.
The stoned scientist is absolutely correct. There is no way you'll manage to match a Phantom 3 (or newer) on video quality, flight time and price. Sorry, that's just a fact. Take it from someone who used to think that it was possible. However, you might match it on photography quality, using a 450-ish size quad, BL gimbal and og good compact camera like a Nex or similar will beat a Phantom on photo quality, but not video. Also it will have way less flight time, probably only the half of a Phantom that has 20+ minutes.
This is coming from a DJI hater from way back. I hate to admit it but the Mavic has to be the hottest thing on the market right now for what you want. I have tried building a budget camera platform and have never quite achieved the results I am after. By the time I put better motors and props on what I have, and buy a decent camera I will have spent close to what a Mavic will cost and still end up with an inferior result. It may be good, but not as good as DJI is offering with a plug and play solution.
As the others have said, if your intention is to put a good quality camera in the air for 20 minutes for cheaps, that's what DJI's are for. At this point, DJI is the "flying GoPro" company, and do it well. HOWEVER, if you want to be flying hard in unusual conditions (high wind, proximity, volcanoes) that's when something like my David Windestal v4 Tricopter starts looking damn good. The agility and "swooshiness" of the Tricopter can give some fantastic dynamic shots, compared to the stiffer and more robotic moves of the quads. Tricopters fly with personality! Takes a _lot_ more skill though. ie: If you're filming a house flyover for a Real Estate site, go DJI. If you're doing a Star Wars trench run recreation, go the Tricopter. Every tool has it's appropriate uses.
Lol, you just said every single word I had on my mind, after seeing how the phantom 3 got his price around 500$ I started to regret so much the decision of make a homemade aerial platform.. Too late, I guess we have learn't man.
terrellma Yep thats what I thought. Just have some shielded cable from the camera to the VTX and then depending on if this still does not fix it entirely put the camera and VTX inside shielded cans. Also I think there is a way to make a virtual ground using two diodes that may help.
If you want an OSD which works amazingly well out of the box and doesn't have any artificial horizon rubbish, have a look at the Matek hubosd. Cheap, reliable and not really any bigger than a standard PDB.
I can't fault the technical analysis at all. I would say that the OSD "issue" is highly subjective. You obviously don't want the additional information, and other people do. I'd say the optimum solutions are to either make it optional, or make it switch selectable. Making the OSD optional has obvious price advantages and obvious stocking and logistics disadvantages. A switch requires a minor bit of engineering, which the manufacturer is clearly weak on. I'm a technician by trade, and one who was primarily skilled at repairing instruments, not improving them, so you probably have the advantage of me when it comes to engineering. Would you think that simply shielding the cables would create enough improvement to be worth the effort, in the absence of the skills to re-design the power distribution board?
The short lines are mainly spikes in the picture. First add a capacitor 470 micro F/ 25 V /low ESR type at the side of the fpv cam. Low esr is very important ,I repeat ;-)
Good video Bruce. I like an OSD on my quad, for voltage., although I am unsure on the accuracy during current draw. I agree the artificial horizon is pointless. Unfortunately with spectrum I do not have telemetry.
Instead of doing away with the PDB, which actually looks like it's laid out well for the frame and ESC locations, wouldn't it be better to simply do away with the video line going through an unshielded foil trace? Run a small shielded wire from the camera to the OSD so it is not impacted by the EMF/RF noise of the high current wires.
i have the Beerotor Synergy F3. it works great. no problems with the video. just remove the pdb and run the cam wires directly to the "sd" port of the F3 ;)
I think the first thing I would have tried is putting a small capacitor in the power side as well as some LC filtering which are both super cheap to buy. One thing to note though is I NEVER buy ready-made anything, I build everything to avoid ending up with garbage like that. No way in heck do you need 12 gauge wire leads that are 2" long for those ESCs, you could probably use 20 gauge for that small of a wire lolol although I probably would have used 16 gauge myself. Most of the time you aren't going to be pulling 20A per ESC, more like 4 or 5A in level flight if that.
I slid a few Ferrite beads onto the power leads to the vtx and the video lead from the vtx to F.C .... Cured the issue hands down ......I've just done the video of it ready for RU-vid.
I think it's good that you report what is bad and it's also good when you show on one example how to fix the problem. But that should be it. If people continue to send your bad designed quads then I think you should just tell them (in private or in public) that their product is bad. Let them look at your videos and let them fix it and next time maybe they send you right away a decent product. In the meantime you will have time to enjoy good products. Just one example is the Bolt 210 which you reviewed on the bench many month ago. According to you it is a very good product. But your part 2 is overdue since months. Instead you spend time on crappy products. Obviously it's your time and your channel but I am pretty sure many subscribers would be happy to see more good products. Mention the bad products if you like but don't waste time on them.
Notice there is no sheilding in any of this stuff? Mabe because its all digital but I agree,you get too much interference from the bad design. Throwing smoothing caps on it adds weight,thats all that does. I heard that particular brand and type is junk . Mabe it was your review too,cant remember I was pretty tired that day.
most protocols in a quad are digital, but the video signal is still analog. there are IP cameras, but they're not sized for FPV, and neither are our current OSDs and video transmitters compatible with them. they could be a welcome improvement for the hobby...
I love having an osd with atleast voltage, amperage, mah per min, mah consumed and timer. but it HAS to have good video quality. I have the tarot 130 and it has shaky/jello video just about makes it useless.
Maybe it's easier to connect the video cam output directly to the vtx; no OSD and it saves alot of hassle and not to mention time, you can leave the PDB all in place ;)
I mean, there is something you could do. Twisted shielded wire. Dump shield to ground. Or just keep your ESC leads short and not make them big loop antennas. I like OSDs and hate talking transmitters! I don't want some lady nagging me my whole flight. *looks over shoulder* Getting away from the nagging is one reason I go flying. Agree with artifical horizon and all that, but volts, milliamps consumed, flight time and RSSI. These are things I like to have at a glance.
i had a ares cross fire and the wiring on them are just aweful, the esc's, motor wires and wiring to the lights where all crammed under the pdb which was the power source to the vtx, unfortunately the thing was a betting game at a couple feet away, just terrible
OSDs are one of the BEST inventions ever - alone the fact that you're able to change ALL Betaflight settings (stick menu) and even your PIDs on the field without using a laptop is a good reason to have one. You can even change your PIDs IN FLIGHT, no landing required anymore. With an RSSI transmitter you're able to see the RX reception quality directly in your OSD while FPV flying. There are so many reasons for using an OSD. Don't want to miss it anymore.
I think it's great you are prepared to constructively criticise things, better than that fawning "X-company sent me these and the are just great!!" That said I do read your channel as "Arsey model reviews" but that is probably too british to work overseas (and no offence intended).
I dont race I fly for view only so video Quality is paramount to me ......The video problem can be worse on carbon framed quads , due to shadowing reflection blocking etc . I realize this is not the problem that Bruce has ..different kettle of fish altogether :) The Prosight really is affected by this . My Prosight was originally fitted to a Plastic King kong .. fantastic range and reception .. I moved all the equipment including motors esc all electronics including the Prosight to a DALRC 265 carbon frame .Only thing that changed was the pdb which is esc distribution only. Every thing is well insulated from the frame with heatshrink standoffs etc . The prosights range is now only 1 third that it was due to partial shadowing of the video antenna in flight . I pulled it all apart and refitted it to a non carbon zmr 250 and all is good again , but the zmr 250 is too small to carry a decent battery. So I will be making a quad from scratch for the prosight more suited to it .
Same. I see no use for osd. I use my timer on my dx8, works perfect no telemetry either. I check my batteries cells before and after my flight always with no problems of running my batteries low.
I dont have a radio with telemetry. I have my trusty old JR PCM 9XII and its still awesome 10 years after I bough it. I use Spektrum and FrSky modules. The radio is fine and I don't want to buy a new one so I like having as OSD to see my battery voltage.
Bruce just to let you know I built a BeeRotor 130 ultra and didn't have any interference so I think yours is just weird. I even modified it by slamming the top plate down and squishing everything together and still no interference. Then I sliced the coax by accident and spliced it together and used a copper mesh around the break with PVC electrical tape LOL and still no interference and the splice sits on the FC! I'll put this comment in your 130 vid as well just in case you don't see it here. I can take a video of it if you would like to prove it and show you my unhandy work.. Bottom line.. yours is just fudged for some reason..
6:30 Of course there is something you can do about it. Especially if you know a bit of Electronic Engineering like you seem to have. Here's a hint... properly grounded coax.
hi, i have signal loss when i trottle up on my mini quad, for testing i hooked my fpv set up to an external power supply, the problem still occurred i also tried vibration damping but this didn't help. Does anyone know what could be cousing this problem?
ian hennus, if it's a lizard95 or kingkong90gt it might be a bad 4in 1 esc board, bad fc, or a really funky pid setting/bad firmware... read earlier about a fellow who put a 470uf 25volt low esr capacitor on the power in side of his 4-1 esc board(right between the battery cables) then ran a separate tiny 1amp 3v buck regulator then 16v 1Amp Lc Filter for his Vtx and Camera and that seemed to fix it, keeps power draw down on the Fc, Meanwhile the Capacitor cleans up the power by adding consistency... the Lc filter is great for blocking interference to the cam..... I just addressed all of the above + shielded wire/ conformal coating, liquid insulation of any exposed conductive surface (antenna connections, power connections, 4 pin con., unused solder pads, tops of lc filters, camera connections, microphone exterior, auxiliary grounds/shields, etc), changed my Center of Gravity, and soft mounted the motors so it should work I'll let you know if it does or doesn't work Wednesday...
Why don't these damn Chinese companies just stop wasting time and money on all the "slick" engineers they hire and just pay you to design the damn things. They would have a better product and you could make some good money in the process.
so am i correct in thinking my higglety pigglety camera to vtx is why my cheap arse fpv kit is crystal clear... hehehe, seriously i just squashed all the wires in there all over the place they were at least twice as long as needed so, i just crammed and bent them into frame. i would really like an osd, i was thinking about the flip32 omnibus for its onboard osd, but i think maybe bruce is shooting down all onboard osd's....
i've also learned that all dvr's make the onboard footage look very bad?, is there no way to get proper quality dvr? it would be nice to see everybodys quality,
Hello Bruce How come you only review cheap Chinese Mini Quad Equipment? I'm guessing it's because there the only one sending you free stuff?? Maybe if you want to be taken seriously in the Mini Quad industry review some quality equipment :)
"video noisy? compromise to fix it by losing your osd". you may not find osd's useful but many others do. not everyone has a telemetry radio and telemetry isnt always reliable. without osd i have absolutely no idea what my rssi or voltage is at any point in time ever unless its critical and the alarms are going off. what a shitty "fix"
Bruce, ever tried to check the capacitors on each ESC? I would check those capacitors on them to make sure it's working properly. If needed, I will add bypass capacitors as well. That would help clear noises. But that wouldn't be necessary as my DYS Lightning's video is working nicely.
