It used to have a penetration stat a long time ago. It is why it does not have it as an upgrade in MVM, because when the weapon got changed, Valve just kind of forgot to update the red headed stepchild of a mode to compensate.
@@kiracaroso I know it could penetrate players, and buildings on release. It just being able to penetrate nearby teamares, like other projectiles, would help just a bit with how often your own team blocks the projectile.
I vaguely remember there was a time in the game's balancing history where the Short Circuit's M1 did auto track at a certain range. And at that time it would only really be used to check for cloaked Spies. This is presumably why it doesn't do that anymore, because Spies have enough problems trying to stay cloaked as is. If their main target has essentially a low range tracker that auto reveals their position, there's barely a point to hiding.
The Southern Hospitalities main drawback (imo) is that, yes, the bleed on hit is underwhelming, but also the weapon has both a debuff and buff attached to the same playstyle. Its trying to both reward you AND punish you at the same time. With your first rework, you make it so the weapon has a longer range (and kept the bleed dmg) but also punishes the user for trying to make the most of that stat. Its redundant
i'd suggest at most 25% less and at least 10% less metal from with upgraded buildings it has 6 less extra hp per upgrade so a lvl 3 has 200 hp. also halving metal regen means a lvl3 gives less than a lvl 1 dispenser. lvl1 metal regen is 40/5 seconds and is upgradded by 10 for every upgrade.
This is what we call risk vs reward, the widow maker gives you unlimited shots: until you miss, you are punished for trying to make the most of the ammo on give back stat. The only difference is this new southern hospitality is forcing you to have better game sense rather than the widowmaker forcing you to have better aim Also the bleed stat is a softer punishment than say, Losing metal because bleed can be negated by healing soruces (such as a dispenser) if you set one up before hand, so it’s not that bad of a system
The SoHo is honestly just a very boring weapon, but it's far from bad. In fact it's actually pretty commonly used as a "defending-last" wrench in comp as it's essentially a straight upgrade to stock there as random crits are turned off. Honestly even in casual i don't consider it to be that much worse than stock as I don't take random crits into consideration so it's basically a stock reskin for the most part, which is why I think it's boring as all the other wrench unlocks have their unique abilities that make them stand out from the rest.
For the Pompson I had an idea a while ago to have it raise your max metal reserve by a little bit, representing the space you save by not having to carry shotgun shells anymore. The whole "doesn't use ammo" thing is so unbelievably useless on Engie that I thought it would be nice to give it a reason to exist. Plus it gives it some nice synergy with both the Short Circuit and the Eureka Effect for kind of a cool retro sci-fi aesthetic.
@@crashmasterj0837 50 sounds like a reasonable amount. I'm not a game developer and it'd really need to be playtested to make sure it doesn't break anything, but I think an extra 50 metal reserve would be a nice bonus. Just lets you roll out and sustain just a little better.
As an engineer main myself that has played with a wrench that increases dispenser range, I feel it really doesn’t change the play style as much as you’d think, even with the reduced metal.
and yet playing it like a boat firing a slow torpedo down a choke and then an hour later getting a kill without even looking(even better if it was a crit) is so satisfying, along with the possibly enraged reaction of the person who got killed by such a shoddy weapon
engineer's 200 reserve ammo on the pretty boy's would be utterly demented. ever since dane's stock pistol video and vorobey's various pistol-only runs, i've seen a huge uptick in pistol spam enjoyer engis, now imagine that but with the fire rate bonus. hilarious imo
The Rescue Ranger's hit sound is not only extremely fun but also super useful for spy-checking, especially because of its very forgiving hit detection. So giving that to the Pomson would actually be a significant buff beyond just sounding cool.
Alternately, short circuit's m1 could delete projectiles too, only if you manage to hit them with a perfectly accurate cursor shot. Doing so would consume extra metal, but if you're good and there isn't tons of spam it can end up saving some metal.
I think allowing Engineer to use the other Shotgun and pistol unlocks is a great idea. We could also throw in the Family Business since it also doesn't have any class restrictive stats. Hell I would argue that Pyro and Soldier should get it too and let Heavy use The Reserve Shooter.
I think the 2nd rework for the southern hospitality isn't a good idea. It seems like the downside of not dispensing ammo would mostly serve to confuse allies, since they won't know whether a dispenser has that trait unless they know the dispenser is made by an engie with that wrench. There's a reason engie's dispenser changes visually with each upgrade, and it's to tell players how potent it is. (Same goes for the sentry, but not the teleporter since it's not as important to know.) Without adding a visual change specifically for the southern hospitality, this would mess that design up.
that can be fixed by giving the healing dispenser a different design. maybe remove the ammo from the compartment, double down on the medical equipment, and have a large + symbol on the paint job. that way teammates will expect extra healing but no ammo when they see it
it would have to be like the gunslinger and have its own dedicated building. personally, i find the design of "just make the dispenser heal more" a little uninspired, even if it could be effective. i also dislike how this breaks the flow of wrench interplay; you can't switch between this and the jag or eureka effect or stock without deleting your dispenser, which (assuming this makes engie healing truly viable) hinders the skillset and metagame of wrench swapping by encouraging engies to go full-time southern hospitality.
theres two weapons engineer needs, a double barrel shotgun and a single action army revolver double barrel could be like stock shotgun but a little unique -35% spread -4 rounds in the gun alt fire: fire both barrels at once with + 65% spread(30% worse than stock shotgun)
Love this series. As an engineer main I would love to have easier mobility, the wingler would be amazing as I tend to put my buildings in very wacky and unused spots, but it tends to be difficult as I have to rely on the Wrangler and T3 sentry, or lose a lot of belt from shooting into myself. The pomson should be able to penetrate teammates. It's kinda ridiculous that it doesn't tbh. I never used it but as of now I feel its like the engineers version of "the original". An overall bad version with no upsides, but might be fun to main as it makes you a weird one. (I have a prof strange classic with 1k + kills lmao)
I like the range increase for the Southern Hospitality, but disagree with the utility function. Almost all of Engie's melees are already ultility-focused, so I believe that giving the Southern Hospitality a small damage buff in addition to letting it destroy sappers in 1 hit at the cost of swing speed would give it a great niche as an offensive anti-spy weapon.
I've always thought that the Southern Hospitality should be able to increase the usages of Dispensers by making them heal and regen ammo more effectively, cost cheaper and extending the range of the healing beam to make it an alternative to the Eureka Effect and it's teleporter benefit
idea: different types of sentry for the engeneer. like one focused on distant enemies or one that only fires rockets... could be cool and add some interesting strategies
I'm thinking of having a sentry that fire rockets at level 1 so the engineer can rocket jump much faster. By not having to upgrade his sentry to level 3
An airstrike-like sentry which detects any player in a certain radius even through walls and sends slow, homing rockets after him which have 75 health and can be destroyed
I'm okay with Engineer not having many weapons considering only one of them is truly bad. If given the choice, I'd prefer a small amount of solid weapons over a lot of really mixed ones.
Now that engie has come up, I've realized a problem with one of your proposed stats that you sometimes bring up. Reloading passively, while a seemingly fun and possibly balanced in how it's presented would inevitably shift one of tf2's core mechanics. Downtime between killing. It may not seem inportant at first, but imagine an engie blasting his rounds into a heavy, switching to his pistol and gunning down a medic, and immediately being able to do it again is more power than he probably should have. (Looking back, equalizer reload on soldier's rockets would have been far worse. Imagine the airstrike spam)
how about making the automatic reload really slow, so you couldnt use it offensively but it could allow you to repair or construct buildings without worrying about reloading your weapons
@@-RandomStranger- i think focusing it on buildings is good. Maybe reload based on metal used on building, therefore making it still active in some way.
yes the airstrike spam that youd be able to get by shooting the airstrike, killing someone with your melee as the second slowest class in the game, then jumping again whichd save no time at all & be extremely risky. i do dissagree with his equaliser rework but thats just because he dissed the half zatoichi on soldier & completely missrepresented its use case.
you do realise that the passive reload is specifically slower right? 1 ammo per second. also youd probably have enough ammo in the stock shotgun to do your example btw
What's crazy about the Pomson is that the cloak and uber drain is practically useless for the engineer. But is extremely annoying for the Spy and Medic. So it's a game mechanic that literally pleases nobody. It's unfair to fight against and of no help to the shooter. It's game design that is so bad, it's genuinely impressive.
The southern hospitality could create a lot of exploits with the extra placement range. So it's a bit hard to implement into the game. But as an idea it's a creative new way for a wrench Stat
I feel like the extended placement range on the Southern Hospitality would lead to Delfy making a lot more videos showcasing out of bounds exploits, potentially ones people thought they'd already fixed too. Engineer mains and glitch hunters have already forced a LOT of fixes in geometry to keep exloiters from getting out of bounds, and extended freedom of placement will force numerous waves of patches, improvements and in general a lot of dev time if they want to keep Engineer mains out of places they shouldn't be. I'm not saying it's a bad change, but there's a lot of potential for abuse by a number of bad actors.
I feel like a fun idea for the pompson is to also give it a charge attack, i imagine something like a big disco ball that drifts upward and just sprays projectiles everywhere as it does. Its probably not good and i doubt it would help an otherwise unaltered pompson, but i think itd be goofy and fun.
I would also like to think that when soldier equips the family business it should have a small cosmetic change, where it's communist logo is scratched of.
Ngl once this series is over with I would be very interested to see a server run with all of these changes added in just to see how everything would work.
All things considered, Engineer might be the best balanced class in terms of unlocks. The pomson is weak and the wrangler shield is a little too good, but other than that, every unlock is in a perfect state IMO. Gotta commend Valve for this. Short Circuit primary fire should just be removed. Any buff makes the pistol a lot less viable. Even if you try to compensate your primary fire buff with a secondary fire nerf, the only thing that accomplishes is making the weapon less unique. It's totally fine to have a slight side-grade like the Southern Hospitality. It reminds me of the Iron Bomber, Panic Attack, and Original in that regard. I don't think it needs a rework.
I personally think the pompson should have more than one projectile. It's a shotgun after all, not a rocket launcher. Make it fire 6-8 small fast projectiles using the shotgun random spread mechanic. That way you don't have to have perfect aim to hit a target at mid range, and have an even higher chance to damage at low range. If we combine this with your stats too, it functions _like an actual shotgun_ but fancy.
I’m not entirely sure on the southern hospitality reworks. For the first one bleeds can stack making it quite easy to die to rapid fire weapons like pistols and SMG’s and for the second one, as a soldier main rockets can be spent quite fast and not being able to refresh them from the dispenser is major to the point where I can see people saying taking it will actively hinder your team.
I think if the southern hospitality is going to change the function of the dispenser then it may as well also get a remodel too, in order to make it more obvious to other players what kind of dispenser it is
Guys. The Pomson is a sidegrade to the SHOTGUN. Ya know, the weapon that is most useful when stuck right into the face of an enemy. It’s not Valve’s fault you’re trying to use it at mid-range. Granted, it’s still worse than the shotgun at close range, but my point still stands.
When you say bad included underused, you may have to reconsider with Medic, since everything is underused because of how OP the Ubersaw and Crossbow are. Instead of buffing everything up to their level, just pretend they don’t exist, it might be for the best.
i dont personally think the ubersaw or crossbow are op, but maybe i dont think the ubersaw is op because i only play on uncletopia where there are no random crits & less bad players to feed free uber. there is no world where the crossbow is op tho thats just not true
I'm sorry my favourite marriage candidate, but I must disagree with the title of this video. The truth is that the engineer has no bad weapons. It has a singular bad weapon, which is pomson. The rest may be somewhat boring but not bad.
This series makes me think that there is a place for a lot more weapons in the game. For engineer, imagine a shotgun replacement that fires a small health kit (can carry couple of them, pick-ups recharge it the same way sandwich does). Visually should be based on dart gun that veterinarians use on cattle. Reasoning is that in many cases while playing on offense (payload or attack/defense map) gameplay of an Engineer is very boring. You should build your nest and keep it running, and leaving it is practically never beneficial (makes you wide open to spies). With a healing gun you would have something to do, and if your aim is good you will help your team a lot, but if its not you may end up helping enemies.
Since you didn't give the Pomson a second rework, I wanna suggest one. It is pretty wacky though. What if the Pomson worked like the Beggar's Bazooka? Keep the smaller clip size but make it so you need to charge it fully before firing 4 projectiles with a minimal deviation. Combine this with the new stats on your first rework and you get a nice area denial tool.
The first southern hospitality rework sucks imo. The bleed on taking damage downside would just encourage turtling, since taking basically any damage would force you to move away from your sentry to your dispenser. Either you leave your sentry unguarded while its being shot at or you can tank the sentry and most likely die there. Or you would use it with the rescue ranger at which point the increased range upside is pointless.
1:00 Long as this doesn't just become a Damage Gun I'm good. 1:50 ...damage. Fucking. Damage. Never hated a weapon change more in my life. 3:20 AND WE DON'T EVEN GET A SECOND FIX REALLY
I don’t think Short Circuit should have tracking at all, I would probably use it less as it would be less satisfying to use since the aiming on it would be done for me at such a short range
One significant issue with your redesigned Pomson - making it play the "Uber sapped" sound effect without _actually_ sapping uber is bad for audio interpretability/feedback. It should have a distinct sound effect.
Had it not been for the asesthetic of the Southern Hospitality I wouldn't even bother using it, maybe as a spy annoyance, but not much It's literally "wrench, but tactical"
i feel like the short circuit could be cool as an all around utility in all honestly, changing its primary fire to be its old alt fire and nerfing its current alt fire to maybe 75 metal a shot could make it an interesting weapon, still being able to damage while being for main utility in situations where a spare rocket or sticky happens to come to you or your sentry and you dont want to waste 65 metal on just one projectile
If I remember correctly the code for the pomson was/is broken where it doesn’t do multiple hits of damage when penetrating enemies going through them while they back into it
It's a modified version of DarHUD (mainly changed minor stuff like the killfeed margins and ammo counter placement). The vanilla version is available on most HUD sites, but if I get the author's permission I'll upload my custom configuration of it (including some major changes) when it's finished.
Is there a server that implements all your suggestions and balances, because I'd love to see this in action, especially with the engi having access to the reserve shooter.
The Pomson having a projectile has always been an awful idea. Instead, it should have an expanding ring that only lasts for a short distance but fires instantly and acts like a wide hitscan. Think of the Melta Gun from Space Marine.
Even if you had all of these weapons equiped at the same time you would still be pretty powerful because you still have all of your buidings. Anyways, good video 👍
Short Circuit primary fire SHOULD be way worse than the Pistol! It's supposed to be a side-grade not direct upgrade! The energy ball is already overpowered as it is so i don't see why the m1 fire should be buffed.
I like your changes to the Pomson but they don't really give any unique playstyle to the weapon. Maybe it could increase your building health when you hit enemies
My Ideas for the pomson: Shoots as fast as the Stock Soldier Primary. Airblast-able (Cuz I wanna make this similar to the Cow Mangler 5K (Soldier Primary) also cuz I main Pyro lol) Plays the same sound as when you hit an enemy with the rescue ranger cuz satisfying Add headshots but it does 99 Damage no matter what That‘s it. May be too OP but idc
As an engineer main who uses the short circuit ALOT id remove the primary fire and make it so you cant gain metal from the payload cart.If i had to keep the primary fire id give it a widowmaker gimick so instead of losing metal youd gain metal when hitting someone.so say reduce its fire rate by 30~40% each hit gives you 10 metal and keep its damage pitiful.I could see this pairing well with the widowmaker as you only need 30 metal to shoot that gun im sick of HAVING to use the pistol if i want to use the widowmaker.
The Southern Hospitality only needs ONE simple “change” to make it unique and viable: +Bleed effect applies to enemy sappers This would make it so that the engineer can remove sappers in 1 hit, albeit slightly slower than 2-hitting it for balance reasons. It gives the engineer a leg up in spy battles (like the weapon is intended to) by letting him focus less on saving his buildings and more on gunning down the spy. AND IT’S BASICALLY NOT EVEN A CHANGE, THE WEAPON ALREADY APPLIES BLEED!!! VOLVO PLS ADD NOW!!!!
Here's my views on each weapon change: For the Pomson, I agree with removing the meter-sapping trait. However, I feel like we can keep (or lower) the close-range base damage, and instead give the weapon reverse-fall-off, similar to the Crusader's Crossbow. Will it be good at close range? Doubt it. However, if you get hit long-range, you _stay_ hit. For the Short Circuit, I side with the option where we just delete the M1 option, and replace it with the M2. Any buffs to the current M1 can risk the weapon, as a whole, being better than Stock. For an Engineer, the simplest solution is probably best. As for the Southern Hospitality, I like the idea of providing more Dispenser-related utilities. The problem with this is that, depending on implementation methods, we might wind up with another "Eureka Effect" option, where the wrench is only swapped to for the building bonus. My thoughts lean more towards a Mini-Dispenser backpack. It can't be upgraded, and blows up when you swap wrenches, but anyone near the Engineer gets the bonuses of a Level 1 Dispenser (Engie included). This _drastically_ changes up Engie's play style, and makes him a lot more mobile, at the cost of never having a Level 3 Dispenser.
Tick-tock Heavy like a Brink's truck Looking like I'm tip-top Shining like a wristwatch Time will grab your wrist Lock it down 'til the thing pop Can you stick around for a minute 'til the ring stop? Please, God Tick-tock Heavy like a Brink's truck Looking like I'm tip-top Shining like a wristwatch Time will grab your wrist Lock it down 'til the thing pop Can you stick around for a minute 'til the ring stop? Please, God (Please, God)
Hottake: The Southern Hospitality from Typical Colors 2, the TF2 copy on Roblox, is a pretty good redesign On hit: Bleed for 5 seconds +25% repair rate +100% damage to buildings 25% slower firing speed Construction hit speed boost decreased by 25% This is essentially the opposite of the Jag (P.D.Q in Typical Colors 2), making you more defensively offensive compared to the Jag making you more offensively offensive. By that I mean that it easier to hold a nest (especially your sentry) by increasing healing when repairing, keep buildings at full health (and ammo), deter spies by keeping the bleed and letting you destroy sappers in one hit, and destroy enemy buildings that you find yourself around with the increased damage against buildings, letting you destroy a level 3 building in two hits (especially sentries, as in TC2, mechanics can't repair buildings while they are being redeployed). While also making it less viable to start setting up a nest by greatly decreasing building deploy and redeploy speed. Where the Jag specializes in speed, this redesign would specialize in survivability.
I find the reworks interesting but I would like to put up a few points of reworks from another game: Typical Colours 2 (roblox tf2) Where the devs behind it actually took the time to rework the Engineer's (or Mechanic) weaker weapons Southern Hospitality: Pretty much the same, except with the bonus of removing sappers in one hit, and removed the fire damage vulnerability making it the ultimate "fuck spy" weapon (also added construction hit boost penalty similar to the eureka effect) Pomson 6000: Completely reworked, and is dubbed the "Einsteinium". Instead of a projectile it shoots a hitscan bullet that sets target on fire and reduces sources of healing from the enemy based on the distance between the engineer and the target. Good for spychecking spies since afterburn immediately gives him away (also completely removed the cloak & uber reducing stat) As for the "new" weapons: The engineer now also has a wearable secondary called "Heavy Metal" (similar to the Cozy Camper or Darwin's Danger Shield) which increases movement speed by 7% and increases the engi's metal capacity from 200 to 300. The Engineer also has an additional primary weapon: The "Gutbuster", similar to the eyelander that rewards kills with increased movement speed and increases Engi's health up to 155 and his speed up to 124%. The gun also has the added bonus of mini-crit against the sentry gun's target, similar to the widowmaker.
So, i use the Southern Hospitality un-ironacally (Even in MvM) and thoses proposed changes i'd go with the second rework, only thing tho it's the Dispenser gives no ammo, it should give ammo at 50% (Or 75%) rate, to normal, so 10/15/20% (5/7,5/10%)(Ammo given) the reason being is that the dispenser serves as an in-fight re-supply so that people don't have to go for the ammo around the map that the Engineer could use in an pinch
One could make the Southern Hospitality be the damage wrench, with bleed and extra damage ( around +25%), at the cost of very slightly lower swing speed (-15%), which would change basically nothing in combat, but reduce its effectiveness when used to repair, upgrade, etc. Great Blue's ideas for the Southern Hospitality could (and should), be entirely new weapons, not even necessarily in the form of a wrench.
I'd approach pomson differently. 1. Triple the length of the projectile and make it phrase through teammates 1.1. Also change its damage mechanics from single strong hit to multiple weaker hits applied every 0.1s of being in contact with it 2. Make it do no damage to buildings, but apply a semi-permanent debuff on them: if it's a sentry, -10% firing speed per level, if it's a dispensor, -10% healing speed and metal provided per level, if it's a tele, -10% recharge speed per level, and if it's a sapper, flat -30% dps. The debuff is canceled by one melee hit from any source.
The only problem with removing the Remove uber or Cloak ability is that the engineer might actually need it. Albiet situational, the two best ways to take care of a sentry next effectively is either spy or a ubercharge. While it doesnt immediately stop it, an effective Pompson shot removes a whole second of uber DURING the charge as well, which on paper doesn't sound like much, but in the field, is CRITICAL for sentry survival. As for cloak, the situation when you can intentionally use this is so rare it is indeed pointless. Considering this, I would say increase the Uber-removal to 20 or at least 15% while changing projectile speed as well, but keep the current damage.
I think the southern hospitality should double down on being an anti spy weapon, removing sappers in one hit but sacrificing general building maintenance against other classes
How about the Sothern hospitality also allows you to harvest metal from enemies for every hit on account of Iron being in blood? As a consequence, you pick up less metal from pickups to sort of force you to be more aggressive to get metal. Plus combine it with the Widowmaker and you have a nice emergency weapon run out of shots? Just Wack the guy coming after you and when they run away cause of the bleeding, you just shoot them.
