FLDS Polygamy In Canada 

I really appreciate that you guys don't let all of the tube's quirks discourage you, you always find another way to get us the info

The 16 year old girl your referring to is Vanessa Rohbock; the daughter of Rulon’s bodyguard Ron Rohbock. When Jeffs ordered her to marry his younger brother she refused and told him she wanted to marry her boyfriend (who was her age). Warren considered this an act of disobedience and adultey because the simple act of “taking a boyfriend” was considered sexual and adulterous. She ran away to Canada and asked Winston to protect her. Jeffs demanded he return her to his custody and despatched her father to retrieve her from Canada. Vanessa refused to return with her father and continued to define Warren’s orders which infuriated him. Finally, Warren had enough and ordered blood-atonement for Vanessa. Long story short she survived, married the man she loved, her father was excommunicated, and Warren began to see Winston as a threat. Which manifested into Warren excommunicating him shortly after he took over. Edit: grammar.

I've grown up in Saskatchewan and only really ever learned about this group in in BC in adulthood. It's only ever really discussed as something that "was" at least in the conversations I've had- so it's fascinating to hear more. I feel like there was a TV special on the group that really portrayed it as a community of the past, but i haven't rewatched it lately. There are many Mormon communities here in rural Saskatchewan, as well as an abundance of Mennonite and Hutterite communities, Seventh-Day Advantists, and many other more fundamentalist Christian sects. As someone who grew up in a non-religious household I appreciate you sharing your stories growing up so I can better understand my neighbors. Thank you!!

I live in Canada and experienced a childhood in another high control group, and it's no wonder Winston Blackmore felt pretty invincible here. Some of the legal issues that complicate the prosecution of polygamy are around the British North American Act of 1867 which sets out how power is divided between the federal government and the provinces. Marriage is listed as the responsibility of each province individually. This means that a man could marry one person in British Columbia, another in Saskatchewan and a third in New Brunswick, and not be in violation of any laws unless the Federal Governent chose to prosecute him. Which they won't because: The Federal government doesn't generally involve itself in marriage laws or the administration of marriage records (except for determining who legally allowed to marry - people over the age of consent in their province of residence, same sex marriage etc). Meanwhile polygamy is illegal under the Criminal Code of Canada (federal legislation, enforced by the federal government and authorized police services, many of which are federal agencies such as the RCMP). These agencies are not going to have the ability to easily access marriage registries (if any of polygamist of interest got legally married) and have to rely on complaints as a driver to investigate. Then comes in Canada's Constitution Act (1984) which pretty much states that the government has no place in the bedrooms of the nation (I'm paraphrasing) so there is to be no policing of relationships between two or more consenting adults. This means that the polygamy laws are only going to be triggered if there is a credible complaint of an underage marriage, and there are records of the province issuing a marriage license showing this marriage took place. Most polygamists aren't stupid enough to marry an underaged girl in a civil ceremony. Which leaves the federal government the option (again if there is a complaint or some reasonable suspicion) of prosecuting child SA but that needs the underage person (and probably others) to testify and possibly physical evidence of assault such as injuries or the conception of a child. Human trafficking is another option, but that is difficult to prosecute if an underage or vulnerable person is brought into the country/across provincial borders with a 'reasonable' grounds for their trip - or if they buy their own bus ticket or travel in such a way that they are not overly reliant on another person controlling their cross border movements. Again that would require testimony from the trafficking victim, people involved in that event and possibly other records like text messages/emails that show there was an intent to traffic an underage/vulnerable person against their will for purposes that they did not understand and consent to.

It's so disappointing when RU-vid's policies keep important videos from being shown. I'm grateful that you were willing to try again so we could hear your take! For the girl who was to be executed, I think that was detailed in Sam Browser's book Prophet's Prey. If I recall correctly, Warren was calling for blood atonement for a girl who fled to Canada, and Winston didn't comply with transporting the girl back to him. There are more details in the book, if anyone's interested.

I live in Lethbridge, Alberta (close to Cardston) which has a huge LDS community but also has a history of FLDS. There is quite a history of polygamy here before it was no longer legal.

I live in Ontario Canada and we heard a lot about Winston Blackmore but most of us didn’t know that there was flds in Canada! Thank you for sharing!

Could you please discuss what interactions there were between Canadian & US groups. Marriages, lost boys? , etc. And Why were they established there.

Hmm interesting, i remember watching an interview done with Winston Blackmore and he mentioned that he had left the FLDS group led by Jeffs when Rulan was still in power. He apparently then started his own "offshoot" group that has gotten more and more relaxed over the years. Apparently there is still an FLDS group that follow Jeffs in that area though that keeps to themselves. I know about a year ago one of Blackmore's sons was getting popular on tiktok talking about his upbringing.

I’m so glad you were able to post this

Being a Canadian that’s read every bio book on any polygamy person also any other book I can find! I was so bummed that the video wasn’t on here last time so thank you for doing this as I’m very interested! I thought maybe it was one of those videos that where flagged in Canada and would have to Waite till I got to the sates next time to see it,thanks for the link! Winston was and still is taking underage brides,I do believe from the news of her interview on the news here his legal bride had left him because she was the midwife of all the pregnant women and after the court case he didn’t stop so she left him and there are a few interviews out there with her! I’ll watch the link and get back to you on it! My family is from the area where they all are!

Thanks for covering this!

Yay! Hey guys! Hope you and your family have a great weekend!

Zack Funnyman already explained more about Vanessa Rohbock who was the girl being referred to that Warren and Winston fell out over, but if my records are correct, Vanessa is married to a Zitting so she might be related to you by marriage somehow, Sam!

I grew up in Eastern Washington State. I am not sure if it is the Blackmore group, but my mother had friends who were associated with a polygamous group in Creston, BC. I have no idea why they associated with us since my family is not Mormon in any way either LDS or FLDS. We would be the very definition of apostates. My mom knew a “back road” to cross the US/Canada border to Creston, BC through the mountains at a non official border crossing. I am wondering if this is the same group. They wore homemade dresses but so did I so I thought it wasn’t so strange and they made their own dolls (in the 80s). Since I was a child, I have funny hazy memories like picking watermelons and helping with building projects when we visited.

I’m in Canada and I’ve been to the town that Bountiful is closest to. It’s a fairly remote area and I never saw people from the FLDS in town. I’d say they were pretty off the radar for a long time. If the police aren’t getting complaints they wouldn’t have known there was anything to investigate.

🙋‍♀️ Hi from Saskatchewan Canada. I lived in Sechelt BC Canada; 1990 to 1997. I have been following The Bountiful BC for many many year's. In our church in BC we prayed for them to leave the cult. Thank you for taking about it.

Loving the facial hair, Sam!!

Yall are so cute! I appreciate your content!. The beard is a nice addition, Sam :)

I’m Canadian and I remember all of this happening. For some reason though, I thought they had split from the warren Jeffs group long long ago. But that split happened quite close to when they were finally investigated. There was kind of a big deal made about how they were not a part of the warren Jeffs group.

I grew up in Saskatchewan, Canada. I had no idea that there was a polygamist group in b.c. until I started watching documentaries online.

I've watched documentaries about Winston Blackmore. I think he's got over 100 children. But definitely broke away from the FLDS over 20yrs ago. He seemed quite friendly and approachable with the reporter who got a tour of the area in the documentary I watched. There is an early documentary, the fifth state where he seemed more arrogant. So fascinating 🇬🇧

I grew up living next door to the blackmores in sparwood bc canada. now Rachel Jeffs / now Rachel Blackmore own the one beside us. I never knew they were considered a cult. some of my family are still in and growing up was a wonderful time there. I remember uncle winston smelled like cigars. and he liked to sing and play the guitar.

I've also heard that the govt doesn't prosecute because the community values their business.

I remember this, it had to do with Blood Atonement, my source that I heard this from was from “Sect”.

We lived in BC about 45 minutes from the Blackmore's who are in Bountiful, BC in the Creston Valley. We tried to find where they lived but no signage. With all the farmland it is easy to fly under the radar. Know people from an AZ independent fundamentalist group that visited them. No details though.

I read a book about Bountiful several years ago. I can't remember a lot of the details, but I do remember that BC's Attorney General at the time, Wally Oppal, pretty much explored every legal avenue he could think of to get them shut down in the face of Canada's anti-discrimination and freedom of religion laws. He was somewhat successful with ruling that, although people were free to believe whatever they wanted, they couldn't act on those beliefs if they violated established laws. Unfortunately, I believe that the ruling was eventually overturned.

My mom's family is from Creston Valley. My grandpa was a farmer who hired members of the Bountiful FLDS community during harvest- including some of Winston's daughters to drive grain trucks (one of the daughters later went to nursing school and took care of my grandpa in hospital a few years ago). We never heard any of the stories about the execution, either! The story in the local community was that Winston got uncomfortable with Warren's control and treatment of women/girls, and noped out. Last I heard, many of Winston's children had chosen not to live the principle. When I was last in Creston a few months ago, the Blackmoors had opened Black Rock Coffee shop in town - and yes, they sell chicory coffee there as well as the usual sort!

Love the beard!

Hilldale huh? Have you heard of and/or would you do a video on the Johnson group in North Idaho?

Question: was it common members of Shortcreek would ever marry polygamous members of the Canadian sect?

Would you two be open to doing Patreon where reaction videos could be posted that we could watch? RU-vid is strict on what they allow and make it super easy for things to get blocked, so annoying! Many of us, I believe, would love to see reaction content on patreon. Just a thought 🙂

It so often is the case that, when dealing with a big crime that's hard to prove or prosecute, they'll instead get the person on something much smaller or secondary because it's easier. The most famous case of this has to be Al Capone, who was this big time gangster responsible for so much crime, murders etc, but he got put away for tax evasion.

I think 3 of Winston’s sons spoke out about this group about a year ago

What I've heard about blackmore, is that he is a bit lenient as far as dress etc. He has a documentary saying that he hasn't married under age girls.

Do you have any info on the Centennial Park group?

Curious if Melissa has ever met any of your family still in the FLDS religion? Or would you ever introduce your children to your bio family still in the religion?

This is so interesting and would love to know more about the different groups and how they differ from the Warren Jeffs group. Will you be doing a story on the Tom a green group? I watched the documentary they made many years ago and am so curious about how they are all living now since he passed.

Well of course. ALL Canadians are fun!!!!. The area around the town of Bountiful is pretty remote.

During last general conference the brethren mentioned several times the higher law. What higher law? They also spelled out for us that parables are designed to convey principles for certain people, not for all. Are they going anywhere with that? Are they going to bring the law of consecration because of the coming famine? Is plural marriage also coming? Celestial marriage in its original meaning is plural marriage after all. If most men die it will probably be a need. But most members would rejected if they don’t see the need on the horizon even though the brethren see it on the horizon. Plural marriage would lure many Muslims into the church. Perhaps that’s why the pamphlet on Islam ☪️ is a beginning to make inroads together with the bringing back of plural marriage. Persecution would also grow and plural marriage might also be something that the brethren have in law when talking about coming persecution. In that way the church would also get a lot of publicity worldwide, like wildfire 🔥. Why has the temple wording changed from "your husband or wife” to "husbands and wives" unless there’s a good reason? Otherwise it’s more confusing. And if plural marriage is in place it will be fitting for the Millennium because thus the earth 🌍 can replenish again and recover the number of folks that didn’t make it.

Try the RU-vid channel the fifth estate. Winston is on there

My favorite kind of hot chocolate is caramel. I couldn't find it in the store, so I ordered it on Amazon. Do you guys drink hot chocolate in the winter. I know like Kimmy from She's in Her Apron will usually have a hot chocolate bar in the winter. She's LDS and helped me understand what is expected of an LDS wife and mother. I totally didn't understand when I was married.

The idea that Winston was asked to help execute a 16-year-old girl is absolutely false. They are referring to Susie Lou Blackmore who was a young girl who was struggling and was assigned to marry somebody and she didn’t want to so then she was assigned to marry somebody else and these were all through Winston. She ended up getting pregnant by someone not from the religion. Then she wanted to come back because now she was pregnant and she didn’t know what to do. Warren and Rulon said she could not be a part of the religion anymore. Winston didn’t want to just set her out now that she was ready to be back. Shortly after they found out she was pregnant, her and two of her brothers and nephews were in a brutal car accident in which she was killed. Winston was still Bishop at the time and at her funeral he said that she had suffered blood atonement and now she was going to be in heaven. Winston is just as big as a terrible person as any one of the leaders. He used the young people And the people who were loyal to Rulon and Warren. He would take their income and also withhold money from the young boys saying they were on missions to build up the kingdom. He would tell the people to donate money time and materials so they could build a house for the prophet so he could come to Canada. He is a very smooth Liar and talker and a manipulator and should be in prison as well.

I think that Winston didn't send an underage girl who had run away back. I can't recall if she was to be blood atoned...

Fair Use seems to work best if you show the clip but also have yourself on the screen - that way it is clear that you are doing commentary/reacting to the video.

No one coud reproach Sam for being a bitter resentful apostate. You guys are so full of grace. That's what makes your channel so powerful. You are helping to save lives.

I always heard girls were trafficked between the UT and Canada groups as wives. Adding a little more diversity to the gene pool. It would make sense that members up there would be inclined to follow Jeffs when the two groups split due to family connections and loyalty. Also, where was the majority of the money? People always go where the $$ is.

Just search Winston’s name on here a lot of videos come up

What about the group I heard about that went to Mexico?

Oh wait, i found it 😂

Because Canada has a mistake of age law maybe that’s why he more open with the investigators about the ages of his brides.

I am subscribed and now only getting this 2 days later . By the way u come to England UK then u can stay at mine

Because Canada has a mistake of age law.

I think it’s important to differentiate between not having a choice and not having good or likeable choices. I have no doubt that going against the prophet would be immensely difficult, but as the man and an adult he held the power in those situations and he DID have a choice when his underage brides did not. Personally, i believe we can acknowledge how difficult that would be to do while still holding these men accountable for their actions. The right and ethical choice is so often the most difficult one.

I don't personally believe polygamy, in and of itself, is a problem. The use of polygamy as a tool for subjugation, on the other hand, IS a problem. The people who enthusiastically enter into polygamy with informed consent are hurting no one. It's when 'one man rules them all' that the problems arise.

I remember watching a Canadian show I think it was the Fifth Estate talking about bountiful and Winston Blackmore. He was more lenient than Warren Jeffs.. Pervery with all those wives but he did allow or some education for the girls. I think his sister was a border patrol agent and left the group but she still would come in to teach the girls. She talked Blackmore into allowing her to do that. Eta the interviewer was a female. Winston was more personal than Warren ever seemed to be more personable (onything I ever saw on TV). He was sketchy with the interviewer though

Anglican in Ontario here. Just started my Christian journey on RU-vid.

OMG, the actor that played Hagrid in Harry Potter dies at age 72 or something.

Wow come on legally u have one wife but u can sleep with whoever u want .. my dad is lds and my mum convert but my dad has 8 kids apart from me .. also i anti flds but learning to be like u and anti lds and like u I can actually get my bloodline to Brigham young

Oh shave it off dude !!! Your face is so perfect. Don’t cover it 😂