Fly Tying Thread Explained 

John, this is a good question and lots of people have asked the same thing. Maybe I'll do a video about it soon, but I'll give you my thoughts here too. You certainly can use sewing thread for flies, but it does have some characteristics that make it more difficult to work with, or less ideal than tying thread. One being that lots of sewing thread is made of cotton. And for the same diameter of thread, cotton will not be as strong as a polyester or nylon. And it will also be "fuzzier" when you look really closely at it, so it will be harder to finish with a clean head. If the sewing thread you use is polyester it won't be as different from tying thread, but there's a good chance what your mom gave you is cotton. If you're not sure what it is, take about 18 inches, hold it tight in each hand (you might need to wrap several times around your fingers) and pull it. A polyester or nylon should have a noticeable stretch. If it's cotton, you won't notice much stretch and it will likely break pretty easily. And if you look at it under a magnifying glass, or under a bright light you should see some of the fuzziness I was talking about. But... one good thing about using sewing thread for flies. If you can make a good looking fly using sewing thread, you can make a great looking fly with tying thread. In the end I don't think a fly tied with sewing thread will be noticeably less durable, but it will have been harder to tie and probably won't look as good. My recommendation if you don't get to town very often is to buy some thread from an online fly shop. The UTC Ultra (by Wapsi) is about $2 a spool. For twenty bucks you could get ten spools of either 70 or 140 denier. I'd pick the denier based on what size flies you tie. If you tie on the smaller size, go with the 70. If you tie more streamers or warmwater bass bugs, go with the 140. Or some combination of both. I'd probably start with three spools of black, then one each of colors like: brown, olive, cream, tan, yellow, red and white. And depending on how often you tie, this investment could last you several years. So my bottom line is that although you could use sewing thread, it's going to make your tying harder. And this is one material I don't recommend skimping on. I hope this helps!

@@SavageFlies sir u have no idea how much it helps. U answered a question i have wandered about every time i tie. I am by no means a professional, and around central Ok there are no trout streams so the smallest fish i can fish for around hm is bluegill. So i tie more streamers for bass, stripers, small mouth etc….i have not mastered the smaller flies yet. But with the info u have given me i am going to go to one of those online fly shops and get me some real thread and try my hand at it. Thank u for taking the time to respond to my question. And also i enjoy your tying vids alot. They are very well explained and helpful. U get a thumbs up every time from me sir. 👍👍

Have you tried rew bee's wax, melt in a tin pour into a shape apply to thread rub up and down to warm and melt into thread or buy tacky wax and rub it to spread you only need a tiny amount .

Q rew bee's wax is RAW bee's wax that holds the honey apologies

About the thickness, everything being the same, you need 4 times the weight, to double the thickness. A = π*r²

Ha! Thanks Roman. I could have probably boiled this 12 minute video into 30 seconds: use a 70 denier for small flies, 140 or 210 for bigger flies. And if you're having trouble spinning deer hair, try a GSP. I think in the end we all just settle on something that feels the most comfortable to us. :-)

I’m moving on to your hackle primer video now!

Well thank you!! I appreciate the kind words my friend. And I'm glad to see you getting into tying. It's such a fun and rewarding hobby. :-)

see reply to Johnb

Thank you Marty; I appreciate the comment. Have a great weekend my friend. :-)

Well thank you! You're dad is a great guy. :-)

Hey, thanks Richard! It can still be extremely confusing and took me a while to just get the basics figured out. :-)

You got it my friend; I hope it helped!

Appreciate it Denny!

Thanks JD! If I were to prioritize my colors to order, they would be: black, brown, olive, olive brown, red, white, yellow, green. And I probably use three times as much black as anything else. And spools of yellows and greens might last me a few years. :-)

Thanks man! This was a tough one to figure out how to make. I appreciate you watching. :-)

You bet Larry; appreciate you watching my friend!

Oh yeah, this was a hard one. Thanks for watching Clyde!

Hey Bernie, I really appreciate the kind words! Take care my friend. Cheers. -Matt

Thanks Edward! I just responded to your email. Another great nymph you made there. :-)

Thanks Kenny! Appreciate you watching my friend. :-)

Thanks Paul! I appreciate the note my friend. :-)

And thank you for this kind note! Let me know in the comments if you ever have any questions. Cheers. -Matt

Thanks Steven! I appreciate the kind words and encouragement. Cheers. -Matt

Thanks William! I really appreciate you watching my friend. 👍

Appreciate it Sarge. And speaking of frogs... I'm going to try a big bass frog here pretty soon. :-)

@@SavageFlies can’t wait to see it!

Hey, thanks Neil! I appreciate the kind comment. :-)

Thank you my friend; I'm glad you're here! As a new tier, if you ever have any questions just leave them in a comment. Several of the veterans around here are always happy to help. Cheers. -Matt

Appreciate it! Thanks for watching my friend. :-)

You bet my friend, or grumpy caveman. Thanks for watching. :-)

Appreciate it Mike! Hopefully this will help some new tiers out there. :-)

Appreciate it Jim! And thanks for watching my friend. :-)

You're welcome David! I appreciate you watching my friend. :-)

You're most welcome John! I appreciate the kind words my friend. :-)

Well thank you Marshall! I appreciate the note my friend. :-)

Thank you Kurt! I really appreciate the kind words and encouragement. Cheers. -Matt

I appreciate hearing that Kyle. Thanks for the note!

Thank you Randy! Appreciate you watching my friend.

Appreciate it Lee!

You bet Craig; appreciate you watching my friend!

Wow, thanks Matthew! That is some high praise. I really appreciate the encouragement. :-)

Appreciate it brother! Can't wait to hear how the new vise is going to work out for you. :-)

@@SavageFlies yeah I'm ready to give it a try. I've never used a rotary before. It should be here by wednesday

Thanks Jim! I've never even tried tying with a 3/0. Maybe I should try some since I break all kinds of thread when spinning deer hair! :-)

Thanks James! This was a tough one to make but hopefully it'll help some new tiers out there. Cheers. -Matt

You're most welcome Fred! Thanks for watching and leaving a note my friend. :-)

Thanks Butch!

You're welcome 😊 Appreciate you watching Dave!

Thanks Bruce! I appreciate the kind words my friend. :-)

Thanks William! Hopefully it will help some of the new tiers out there. :-)

Thanks my friend! Really appreciate you watching. :-)

Good feedback Layton. I may give it a shot for some of my smaller trout flies as well. But the only colors I have in GSP are white and black. I suppose I can use the white when possible and just get some markers for any fancy heads.

@@SavageFlies I only use white and black, Sharpies do the rest. lol

Oh, I didn't even think about quilters and the threads they use. I'll bet there are tons!

Thanks! Thread is still a pretty complicated subject until you just pick some you like and use it for a while. :-)

Appreciate it Franky!

Thanks Josh. This one was kind of a pain to try and put together. :-)

@@SavageFlies yea thread can get really confusing at time that’s why I usually just pick the color I need the. Try to match the size the best I can 😂

Thanks Michael! For anyone reading this comment, the link to Charlie's article is in the video description. Well worth the read. And you're right Michael, some of the GSP threads are so strong, that they are very thin and you have to be careful not to actually cut through materials like deer hair. And also a good call on watching full dress salmon fly tiers for some great examples of thread control and economy. These guys will actually count thread wraps to keep it as precise as possible!

@@SavageFlies as I had said a while ago,I learned alot from both Eric Leiser and Dick Talluer but the most amazing thing I had ever seen was a man named Bellarmino Martinez tie full dress salmon flies using a pinkie vise. Thread was cut and laid out along with all the other materials,never saw him short or too long.A wizard!!

You know Michael, I don't get the obsession with it either. I've been tying with UTC in a 70 denier for so long, it just feels natural to me. Maybe if I spun a lot of deer hair flies or tied those big monster saltwater flies I might reconsider. Just haven't really had a need to. Thanks for the note my friend. :-)

I appreciate it Brian! Let me know if you ever have any questions or requests for the channel. Cheers. -Matt

Richard- I have not thought about doing a video on wax, but I appreciate the idea! Of course, I would have to learn a lot more about other waxes since I pretty much only use one kind (Hareline's Touch Dub).

I go into that a bit in this hook primer: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-V9yPY7VpSYU.html. Toward the end I talk about some of the conversion tables out there.

Thanks

Thanks! I've never tried their thread but have been looking closely at it lately. (I thought for sure the company was started by a Marine but it turns out they're an English company so I doubt they have anything to do with our USMC!) And they're a bit pricey at almost $4 for a standard 8/0 or 6/0 waxed. And their nano silk is even more expensive. I may give the nano silk a try, but as expensive as it is, I doubt I'll replace my $2 a spool UTC. Let me know if you try it as I'd love to hear from someone who has actually used it. :-)

@@SavageFlies I use a lot of nano silk and it is awesome. Especially small midges etc. Extremely strong and great colors.

@@ScottLarson199m Thanks Scott! I'm going to have to give it a try. :-)

Thank you Dale! I love to hear that my friend. And yes, I do plan to start writing books within the next few years. It's all part of my retirement plan. :-) Thanks for the note!

Thanks Dan! Appreciate you watching my friend. 😁

Thanks John, and welcome to the channel! My go-to thread is a 70d UTC, but that is hard to split. It can be done if you flatten it first and use a fine point needle (more pointy than a standard bodkin). But it’s still tough. So depending on the size of fly I’m tying, I would consider stepping up to a 140d if I was planning on splitting it. If you can still get a clean head without it blowing up on you, go for it! And if you’re going to split thread on a big nymph or streamer, grab some 210d. That stuff is much easier to split! You just have to be careful as it builds bulk quickly. Hope this helps!

Good point, but I'd think splitting thread for dubbing might be challenging for a brand new tier. I know I screw it up half the time! But I do hear GSP will split easier than a standard nylon...

Ha! That's a good one. And yes, regarding the Veevus 16/0 and 6/0, Charlie Craven mentioned that exact same thing in his article. And he even had the clout of talking to the head of the company and still couldn't get a straight answer. I haven't seen the video on their site so am going to have to check that out. Thanks Bob!

David- I use the light that came with this pack. amzn.to/3L7iZ7y Another tip- I buy separate applicator bottles and I love these things! amzn.to/3se4W7y

Thank you

Good feedback Aidan. I don't use white GSP too often... maybe I'll give it another chance. :-)

The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table

The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table

The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table

The aught sizing system isn't standard so you really can't say unless it says on the spool. The G size probably means it came from thread that a company called Gudebrod produced for them. And this sounds like it's either the 210 or 330 denier. Check out this link: globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/fly-tying-thread-table

That's actually an interesting topic. I'm going to think about it and do some research. Does sewing thread come in different sizes or strengths? Maybe I can rig up something to do a breaking strength test too. Thanks for the note!

@@SavageFlies Yes threads come in different sizes, different purposes, different materials, everything from superfine all the way up to heavy embroidery thread. Really, it’s kind of a genre of its own. I’ve used it in many ways during my time at the base, and it does have some uses.

@@dahutful That's interesting! My wife has little-used sewing machine. Now I'm wondering if she's got any interesting thread I could play around with. :-)

@@SavageFlies material matters - ideally you want thread that is synthetic. But cotton blends make nice bodies, under a coat or resin or varnish. I’ve caught many fish on nothing more than a sewing thread body with a soft hackle collar.

Very true! Or even start with a 6/0, and when you can make clean flies and heads with a 6/0, your flies with 8/0 or a GSP will look REALLY good.

UTC stands for "Ultra Thread Company" but I think it's really just a brand marketed by Wapsi. You might simply hear it called Ultra Thread. But there's also "UTC wire" which is just wire sold by Wapsi with the UTC name.

@@SavageFlies thank you for the info!

Добро пожаловать. Спасибо за просмотр! -Matt

Richard- good question. Lots of people have asked this one. For thread, you pretty much need to get it from a fly shop. The sewing thread you'll find at craft stores or Walmart just doesn't work very well. It's not as strong, doesn't have any wax in it, and is just a bit harder to work with. (And I think it's often made of cotton instead of a synthetic nylon.) The good thing is that thread is generally pretty cheap anyway. The Wapsi UTC I use most all the time is about $2 a spool. Now there are some expensive threads out there (GSP, Semperfli, some of the Veevus) which can be $5-6 a spool. But you can't go wrong with the good ol' UTC.

@@SavageFlies thanks for the fast reply! I really like your videos, you are truly informative! Thanks again Dick- Whidbey Island Wa

@@richardness4469 You're welcome Dick. So, Whidbey Island? Any Navy affiliation? I was a sailor and spent some time on a carrier in Bremerton so not too far from you. -Matt

Sorry Matt, no navy for me! I live on Bush Point! Rite on the beach! About 16 miles from the navy air base! Google Bush Point! Great salmon and steelhead rite off my beach! My neighbor typed some flys for me and I had great success!🎣😎

Oh yeah, I totally blew that one! I think I may have corrected it in a pinned comment later. :-)

Joe- there is the "Fly Fishing and Tying Journal," published four times a year. I like it okay, but prefer "Fly Tyer" magazine. "Fly Fisherman" magazine is published more often, maybe six times a year. It does have some tying in it but is a little more fishing focused. I would recommend both these- Fly Tyer, and Fly Fisherman. And if you only subscribed to one, probably Fly Fisherman. Hope this helps!

@@SavageFlies awesome thank you matt as always your a big help...see ya joe

Yeah, I misspoke there. Sorry about that.

Yep, I realized my mistake a little too late on this one. Thanks for the note!

Did I say 9,000 kilometers? Oh boy, I hope not. It's 9,000 METERS, or 9 KM. Still, that is way longer than I would have believed and had to look it up from several sources. Now I've got to go back and check what I said!

Dammit. I just watched. Not only did I get it wrong, but I said it wrong about three times. Uggh...

That's OK man you put out some great videos.

What about the UNI Trico at 17/0 or 40d? I've got a spool but haven't gotten crazy enough to try it yet. I'll bet that stuff is invisible! :-)

@@SavageFlies I have a 30d in white that basically IS invisible 🤣🤣..

Hahaha! Most of us have no idea how the RU-vid algorithm works. But I'm glad you're here. 👍

I know man, I screwed that one up! I might have to do a part 2 for this video anyway since I didn't talk about the Semperfli either. I just recently picked up some of that and will give it a try soon...