FMIC vs TMIC: Worth It On A Subaru Impreza? 

They cost a fortune, also heatsoak whilst sat in traffic is still an issue, and the other issue with air going over the scoop over 100mph is still there. Top mount is fine for a road car really.

They are good but still nowhere near as good as a fmic. The wrong location so suffer heat soak and issues with airflow at speed missing the scoop altogether 👍

Thank you very much 🙏

@@stock.cars.2ned If new hardware (or better fuel) pushes out the safe limit of boost and/or ignition timing: (a) changing neither of those would show a small difference if even measurable; (b) changing the tune parameters to make use of the better hardware will show the meaningful difference. Option (b) is probably the most useful guide to car-modifying enthusiasts. I didn't convert my car to full-time E85 only to run conservative petrol-standard boost and timing and the same power.

You're very welcome Ben 🙏

Yes they are very good.. Totally agree 👍

Thanks very much.. I really appreciate that 🙏

I thought the same. A fair comparison would be at the same boost.

Noted. The car will be back again at some point and we will try and do some more filming 👍 The objective was to see the difference in power though from an optimised map on a tmic to an optimised map on fmic. Regardless of boost the fmic enables more power to be made. Running the tmic at that boost on that car would not make more power than it did at 1.4 hence why it was mapped at 1.4. The better efficiency of the fmic at removing heat allows more boost to be used.

I'd just like to add, (my car by the way ) My previous mapper did add more boost at first with the top mount but it wasn't making more power and was creating heat. The car was happy where it got mapped. Plus it was a warm day outside and was mapped on the road. This example is of my setup. All setups will give different results. My aim from this video was just to show the outright difference from a turbo that's rated in the low 400s where boost levels will be high and so will the heat. Could of easily of got a big 500bhp turbo and run lower boost to achieve 450bhp, but I wanted a turbo that gives great responce and boost that comes in nice and early like oem. You can go crazy onhow indepth the tests are, but this kind of test with this setup just shows very quickly what a front mount is capable of. And shows the limitations of the top mount at this level.

@stijanjija2225 car was mapped with the top mount and wasn't happy with more boost.

@@stock.cars.2ned thats amazing. Can i see your dyno videos mate ?

👍👍

Thanks mate 🙏

Thanks Peter 🙏

Thank you very much 🙏

👍 The ic auto spray doesn't tend to make much difference on the dyno from when I have tested in the past (pre RU-vid days) I will, however, see whether a suitable car arrives to making a video of the test going forward. Size and location will work against a spec c tmic compared to a fmic though. Thanks for watching and the comment 🙏

@@stock.cars.2ned more boost doesn't always mean more power hence why it was capped at 1.4 bar on the tmic map. Running more boost on the tmic meant that much less ignition could be run and even with more airflow the power made was less... Sorry for not going through a million different scenarios of the tuning, but this is someone's car, not a shop owned test mule where I can do endless takes for the video. The comparison was optimised and safe map for tmic vs optimised and safe map for fmic and as such valid.

@@stock.cars.2ned I think it's a fine test, and glad the boost increase was shown... but selecting an optimal intercooler for an application is a real pain in the ass and takes a lot more logging time than a day in the dyno can provide.

@@racedynamix I understood the take-away - a more efficient intercooler can allow to you operate your compressor further outside of it's efficiency island and squeak a bit more power out of the setup. Pushing the limits in this area requires fuel and spark tuning, and then subsequent logging of IATs to validate stable temperatures.

Great to have you down Ben 👍

Yeh, that was a good day nice. Its nice meeting accademy members and seeing their cars make power. That noise Never gets old ❤ Good work on video Duncan

@@Zaid_Mohamed cheers Zaid 🙏

Do you have a link to the fmic?

@SleepyCorn-qv2nw it's just the gravity one mate.

Exactly that 👌

Thats interesting. Colder the faster you go! Perfect

@@admarshall4 indeed 😎

Whats does the extra heat mean for driving on the street?

@@davconelectric it means that the map has to be adjusted to allow for that by reducing ignition timing and power going down 👍

Yeah it is a bit of a nightmare trying to find one for the fsti. When I have seen them they tend to be custom builds 👍

🙏

Thanks Rob 🙏🙏

I am sorry but that isn't going to happen unless they all give me their version and it would need to be done on the same day to make it a truly valid comparison. Sorry

I think that is wrong... Fitting a fmic requires fitting an induction kit and that changes fueling. On this car the induction kit was there for both tmic and fmic so I didn't change fueling at all. It took more ignition timing and because the air was cooled better it allowed me to run more boost. 👍

I haven't done one but the results would be midway between. The larger tmic has a better core but size and where it is holds it back 👍

It will always make way more power wuth a fmic at that level. A fmic does not reduce the cooling of the radiator at all in my experience.

Altitude and also subarus with vvt help as you can tweak it, and a good tune will bring the turbo back in

Indeed... Response and boost threshold are different, there will be a slight delay in refilling all the pipework from a fmic but once going it will outperform a tmic easily 👍 even at altitude 😎

It's never a bad thing but subarus have never been any higher then 340bhp from the factory (apart from the cosworth 400 version ) Most are like 220 to 300 on average from the factory. Sti top mount performs really well at that power level. And the bonnet scoop is so iconic now that I couldn't imagine a subaru without one

Hi. Those mods won't make 400 tbh, a more realistic target for those mods is 340-350. At that power level the std engine should be fine if tuned det free and with good maintenance.

@@racedynamix ok. So a hybrid turbo upgrade bigger injectors front mount intercooler upgraded induction kit and a down pipe straight through 3inch and a updated fuel pump and a custom won’t make 400 from 280bhp what would I need to add to the list to make the 400

@@silenthill87 ah a hybrid 400 bhp capable turbo might help you get there with fmic and injectors 550cc or slightly larger... But you are definitely into engine death territory. If you are worried about that happening I would keep below 350, if you are not worried then a set of ported std headers will help it get more power

@@racedynamix 100% thanks for the info

I've only seen them on videos. Only difference I see is the quality and fitment tend to be better. I knew someone running a timeattack car with 700 plus bhp with a cheap ebay core and his temps was fine. Biggest fitment issue is having to destroy your front bumper on the inside, but I think that's the case regardless. I think for the money, this particular kit doesn't fit bad at all.

The fitment of the more expensive kits is much better, the pipework quality is much better too. Some of the cheap kits you wonder whether the designers have even ever seen a subaru 🤣

@racedynamix they ran out of budget mate lol

@@benc911 🤣

Size of the turbo will change where the power is. The turbo on this is still small ish

@@benc911 other than spool up it doesnt explain what I asked. I've built/run/modified Subarus for years, run 2.0, 2.1 and 2.5 engines etc and Duncan has probably tuned 200+ cars for us.

It's not a turbo just oem headers and flow trough them.

Hi.. Great question. The 2.5 is inherently weaker in design but should be OK to that power level if mapped to be det free. The Ej207 would be much more capable of handling that power and significantly more tbh. The ringlands and headgaskets are a weakness on the 2.5 but it makes for a great road engine because of torque. hth

I don't really do stage 1 or stage 2 maps.. Just custom maps for whatever is on the car. There will be a power gain on your from fitting and mapping a fmic though but at that sort of level a tmic is doing OK 👍

🤣🤣

Yeah, a compromise in power for response 👍

The gains won't be as much obviously but it could be worth it if car used on track etc.

It shouldn't affect it too much... The early APS kits were all silicone and worked well 😎

I've done comparison uk dyno dynamics to Dynojet. Check that out 👍. Almost no mustang dynos here so I wouldn't be able do it.. Sorry

@@racedynamix I’ll check it out! I think with this information I can then calculate Mustang numbers as well with some research. TY Sir!!

Lol. Yeah it did well 😎

I should have done what I see on a lot of dynos and just took the whole front bumper off mate 😂 would have easily made another 10bhp 😂😂

@@benc911 🤣🤣

Air goes throught the intercooler then the radiator mate. no cooling issues.

It makes zero difference in my experience 👍 You might have just added another myth to be busted 🤣👍

@@racedynamix heard it from dominic Acia (getadomtune). Would an interesting experiment

​@@racedynamixheard it from Dominic Acia (getadomtune). Would be an interesting experiment

Got this info from getadomtune. Would be an interesting experiment

I think they would be better but still suffer from heat soak and inefficiency due to location and direct airflow, albeit the newer scoop is a better design. Fmic still wins outright imo

@@racedynamix agreed. It pains me to have a non-functional scoop though lol.

@@stock.cars.2ned it might also be a sales pitch, but nothing was incorrect. FMIC can be bigger, and doesn't heat soak. The dyno numbers from many tuners show the positive results of an FMIC over TMIC, and I hate to admit it because I love the top mount- , but the data backs it up

it is mate, buy the gravity version as its the same but youll save £100. Just remember its a cheap kit, fitment is fine, seen worse and copes with decent power.

A fmic is a good option for you 👍

It certainly helps keep air temps going into the engine low and that is extra safety at the very least. 😎

I have customers running 496bhp on the std engine... But they are aware that they are on borrowed time.. It will break at that level. There isn't a hard fast limit on power though.. What are you aiming for?

@@racedynamix thanks for the response. I am aiming for 400bhp . Was going to upgrade the turbo from stock vf34 and upgrade air intake bigger injectors and a good remap. But was unsure if 400 would be safe on the standard engine. Also keeping the standard clutch on the car as well. Has the Sti top mount intercooler

The top mount can't rid of the heat quick enough so wouldn't take more boost before having to reduce ignition timing and actually make less power.

@@racedynamix Ahh i see

@@racedynamix Would this apply with a speed density tune?

The better kits fit better. The cheaper cores work fine but the pipework is not as nice nor are the connecting silicone pieces 👍

@@racedynamix Thank you. Thank you for the reply :)

Gravity/japspeed

I think it was a Gravity kit 👍

Definitely beneficial to have a fmic there 👍

@@stock.cars.2ned why so aggressive?

Lol.. There was a couple of blank bits in it.. So I had to delete. I couldn't live with it having obvious defects over and above my own deficiencies 🤣