Hi Sune - a small criticism of the vid from a huge fan. For Dutch oven baking, most people, especially beginners, won't have the costly Challenger breadpan but a regular cast iron pot with tall sides and a shallow lid. You can't shoot a loaf off a peel into such a pot. You need to lower the loaf into the pre-heated pot, so you have to turn it out onto a silicone bread-sling or a piece of suitably cut baking paper, then pick it up by the sling or paper and lower it in. To avoid moving the very hot pot out of the oven and in again, best just open the oven and slide out the shelf holding the pot far enough to take off the lid and lower the loaf in, then put the lid back and close the oven. Thanks for teaching me most of my sourdough baking chops!
My first pot was a Lodge Combo Cooker. The only right choice for a beginning baker in my opinion. Lowering dough into a doughing hot pot is super dangerous and bound to fail at some point. But fair point. This is what you get from making stuff all by your lonesome 😊
Imo taking the pot out is far easier than putting the dough inside while its in the oven. Just 2 oven mitts and you take it out, take the lid off and put it in. Score, put back into the oven and done
I bake on the lid of my Dutch oven (that is, the whole Dutch oven is upside down) so I don’t have to get the loaf into the deep part. I think a peel would work into that, but I don’t have a peel so I’m not sure.
@@jamesepaceI think that's the same idea as the Lodge Combo Cooker Sune mentioned. It has a frying pan type shape and a pot shape, and they fit together like a Dutch oven. But you use the flat frying pan as the bottom, the big pot as the top (like your lid). With this, you can use a peel if you're so inclined, & there's a lot less chance for injury. I have one (among other things). Works well. For fun, I've even put the dough on a pre-heated pizza/bread stone, then a large Pyrex clear bowl as the top. Not recommending it - some Pyrex is oven safe, some is not. But it's great for getting a time-lapse photo of the baking bread 😃.
Like most here, I do not have a Challenger nor Lodge Combi-Cooker. But I just use parchment paper (version 1.0 recipe style). I place each loaf on a sheet of parchment and lower it into the Le Crueset Dutch oven. Then it is really easy to lift out by holding the corners of the parchment paper.
Hi Sune, LOL, I came to refresh myself on timing of bulk ferment from your previous versions. haha, Cant wait to see the V2 recipe, literally cant wait as I just put it in the container right now on the bench for the bulk ferment. But not to worry, next weeks loaf will benefit I am sure! Thanks for being my virtual mentor. You and your music make for a really chill place to hang out and get motivated, what ever the sour dough hurdles I face. Heath.
I'm happy u say it works great my best Sourdough yet. ! Left it overnight was over 150% before I got to Forming it this morning and baked when I got home. From work. Love it. 25 min a bit much for my first scenic did 2 of 20 looks better. Thank you!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I've been stuggling over the last four years to get consistent loaves with a nice oven spring. Your recipe, instructions and video have solved my problems and I have beautiful, tasty loaves. Excellent results based on your abridged instructions.🍞😁😊
Campagne…Hi Sune no question, just a big thank you for helping me raise my level of baking skills. I have been trying to learn how to bake high hydration bread for some time and you have given me the encouragement and motivation to keep trying. I haven’t mastered it but am moving in the right direction. Thank you again ! Dale
Just wanted to say thanks for this consolidated view of all your experiments, I've been following your first recipe then upgraded to v2 and learned some of the ideas inbetween i.e. turn off the oven; still surprises everyone i speak to but it works a charm. This feels like the culmination of when any amature starts to piece all the knowledge together and forms the "perfect" art. Again my thanks for all the work you put into experimenting, your reciepes and the great tools on your website, would never have gotten past my flat slabs of soughdough concrete without your help :)
Another observation I took away from your videos on making sourdough..... It does not have to be a complicated process. I've Incorporated so many of your techniques into my sourdough process that it has become straightforward and fairly simple to create a nice sourdough loaf. The stretch and folds in the bowl were an epiffany to me. It really reduced the overall effort. Of note, one thing I have done after putting the dough ball into the basket is to place a moistened a paper towel over the bottom of the dough ball and then put it in the refrigerator. It helps keep the dough ball tight and prevents a thick skin from forming on the area's exposed to the refrigerator air. Thanks again
The biggest benefit of the moistened paper towel is keeping the dough ball tight, thereby maintaining the surface tension. When I remove the paper towel before baking, I will missed it with a water spray bottle so it comes off easily.
ThankYOU So much for the brilliant lesson! I made 2 loaves using your instruction…this is after being on the sourdough journey for well over a dozen loaves so far. My results on these loaves were the best!! Finally!!!!! The crisp, the texture…all to perfection. I probably could have had a little more rise but I know that was probably my issue. I wish I’d watched your video before i began this sourdough obsession. What I’ve learned from you has helped me to understand how simple it truly can be. Your detailed explanation of hydration-Perfection!! And… how you explain how to time fermentation has made the whole process easy instead of frustrating. Thank you again & CHEERS!😊 p.s what’s your opinion on cold oven baking? I use Dutch ovens.
Just here to say that I’m trying this recipe right this second, following it: To. The. Letter. I cannot even begin to guess how many loaves I’ve made (tried!) in the past few years. I found your channel a few days ago, and it’s FAB. I’m hoping this recipe is what I’ve been looking for. Ok, admission: I line my pizza peel with parchment. After I flip the dough onto it, I cut a circle out of the parchment, around the dough and c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y put it into THE LID of my Lodge Dutch oven. I hope I’m not doing anything to negatively affect the bread… because il too afraid of trusting my pizza peel skills! 🤷🏻♀️
I always think your batard shaping looks invasive (compared to, say, Foolproof Baking, for instance), but there's no denying the results! Great recipe.
It's really for everybody. I guess handling super high hydration, or open crumb are more advanced topics, but both of those can be done with this recipe, just didn't think it would fit in this video. I have a 90% hydration bread recipe, coming out soon :)
Absolutely, but many people are used to using volumetric measurements for recipe in the states and might not be sued to using a scale for cooking or baking :)
Just a few new points that I will have to incorporate in to my process. Thanks for the test for hydration! One question: if I make two loaves from that recipe, what size banneton are you using for the boules.
Yours has been my go-to technique for ages and it just works.🙏 But I've two questions. Baking: 25 min @ 230C/450F covered, then same uncovered, total 50 min. But in the past, wasn't it 20 min @ 260C/500F covered and 20 @ 230C/450F uncovered, 40 min total? Did I miss an experiment? Cold proof uncovered: Doesn't the drying theoretically reduce the loaf expansion in first part of the bake?
Hi Sune, A couple of questions for you. 1. I recently bought a dough sling. It works pretty well so far but I am wondering if using it allows steam to escape thereby impacting oven spring? I think this happens when the flaps of the sling are sort of left hanging over the outside of the DO. Should I pop the flaps into the DO and let the lid settle in as it would without the sling ? 2. When one speaks of over or under proofing what exactly are we talking about? Is it the time the dough is in bulk-ferment or when it is proofing in the refrigerator or both combined?
Hi Sune, awesome video. I've made many loafs following your recipe. I have two questions: 1) Do you clean/wash your linnen couche? If so, how? 2) So, covering in a plastic bag before placing in the fridge does not do much (as done in previous master recipe)? Or what was the purpose?
1) I wash them when they get gunky. I put them in the washing machine at 30C/86F (kinda like the proofer), and I let them airdry 2) The point is that you don't need to use time or resources for covering when it makes no difference in the final bread. I will say that because the dough dries out it makes it easier to get the dough into the oven.
Love this video with your refinements. I’m experimenting with adding different flours to my bread flour which does make it hard to determine how much water, so I’m going to use your trick of testing the hydration. I am assuming that I can mix those tests in with the final dough taking into consideration som adjustments and measuring that need to be made. The other technique I’m going to try is using some water to help with the final shaping. Watching you do that just seemed to make sense to me. As always, thanks for your videos where I learn things and you make me want to hang out in your kitchen with you, especially when you butter the bread.😊
Yes, doing the experiment with the final flour mix makes a lot of sense :) Just remember to subtract the flour and water in the starter, before you mix the dough :)
Clarifying question: if you do the 3 sets of stretch-and-folds after the initial 60m rest, won't that add 1h of bulk fermentation compared to if you go straight to the bulk fermentation (without any kneading)? Would you still aim for a 25% room temperature bulk rise (before putting in the fridge overnight) *after* the stretch-and-folds?
Hi Tom, I have a couple of questions for you. 1. I recently bought a dough sling. It works pretty well so far but I am wondering if using it allows steam to escape thereby impacting oven spring? I think this happens when the flaps of the sling are sort of left hanging over the outside of the DO. Should I pop the flaps into the DO and let the lid settle in as it would without the sling ? 2. When one speaks of over or under proofing what exactly are we talking about? Is it the time the dough is in bulk-ferment or when it is proofing in the refrigerator or both combined?
Thanks for the recipe, Sune! Is there truly no noticable difference in results between this simple method and more elaborate artisan methods? Would the no-knead in this video be exactly the same as the one you stretch-and-folded?
No difference in my kitchen. When you make no-knead it's a little bit looser the first couple of turns in the preshape, but then it's the same. The resulting bread also looks the same 😊
Hi Sune, another great video! You said to cold ferment for 4-48 hrs. Is there a big difference between these extreme times of 4 vs 48 hours of cold fermentation? In taste? Crumb? Texture? Etc. thanks!
If you proof cold enough (under 3C) the only thing that really differs is the taste. It will get more sour but also more 'developed'. Hard to put words on it. It's subtle, though 😊 It your fridge isn't cold enough, the dough will likely over proof 😊
Hey. Tried your recipie - made great bread. Thanks Q: when i use baker %. The flour is allways 100%. How much water and flour does the starter count for ??? How does it count towards the total % of hydration ??
Is there a technique to convert this to a loaf in a pullman pan, as is, without adding milk, butter and sugar? Every time I try, I get large crumb tunnels. Is there a way to degas it for a more dense crumb but still get it to rise to the top of the loaf pan?
Sune, - what is the hydration of this bread ? The recipe gives 70%, however, at 8:22 you mention "adding more water" so that it is 80%. Is this the same flour you used for the window pane tests? Great job as always.
The recipe that I present is 70%, which I think will work with most bread flours. I am making 80% because my flour takes more water. The flour in the test is bread flour from my local supermarket, in the recipe it's Caputo Manitoba Oro for bread flour, and Kornby Mølle Rye no. 3 for the rye :)
I’m all in for everything but the $300 challenger bread pan. For me it is excessively expensive and totally unnecessary. I’ve been baking sourdough for over three years using two Dutch ovens and they work great. Sorry not worth the money for me. Love the vids and I’ve learned so much from your experiments. Thank you for your efforts.
This wasn't meant as a promotion for the Challenger, but more a "I always get questions about it". People can go watch the review and make up their own mind. In the review I say that you can get the same results for much cheaper. I think the Lodge Combo Cooker is, by far, the best value for money :)
Hello, thank you for explaining the information about testing unknown flour. I have a question about open baking. Did I get it correctly, that you recommend to turn the oven off for first 20 min once the dough is in the oven and then set again to 230°C? I'm afraid that there wouldn't be enough boost for the dough to raise at all(
Hello Sune. I've been baking sourdough for some time with great results. I initiated a new starter and I'm getting something weird happening. It's been cold in this area lately and I'm not sure if that's what the issue is but I have not experienced it before. I am getting a white powdery substance on top of the starter. And I'm starting to think it's mold. I had to go out of town and put my starter in the refrigerator and came back to the powdery substance on top again. Is this something I should not be concerned about or is it mold which obviously I do not want in my sourdough? I enjoy your videos, I bought some of the special flour you used in the Italian country bread with the "0" flour, whole wheat, and rye. Can't remember the name at the moment. I'd appreciate a response as soon as you can. Enjoy your videos on bread and other foods. Thanks.
I'm enjoying your very measured approach to bread making as I just embark on the sourdough journey. But I'm wondering if I should abandon ship! Do you have any low temp recipes? I live in the low mountains of a third world country and the very best I could do was aquire an oven that huffs and puffs to get to a max of about 410° f. Add in my 4,500 feet altitude need to bake hotter and I'm thinking I'm not a candidate for sourdough... Any thoughts? Thanks for all your efforts... I'm enjoying learning. John Robert Veracruz Mexico
great video as all your vids are.quick question when it comes to the set of stretch and folds which calls for stretch and fold once every 30 mins or so.what would be benefit or opposite of performing multiple folds each time instead of one thank you
When using a stand mixer with this recipe, how long approximately, would you mix it for? I use King Arthur bread flour with 20% rye. I tend to let it mix for 12-15 minutes before I see it start to pull away from the bowl. Also, I see your starter ratio is 1:5:5. I've been using 1:1:1 ratio up to this point. Is there a big difference?
Hi Sune, I have noticed lately that when I'm doing the stretch & folds that the dough becomes less and less extensible. Is that to be expected? Should I do less stretch & folds? Does it affect bulk fermentation?
After my refrigerator chill, my loaf really flattens out/deflates, despite being nice and tight and window-pane-able before going in. What do you figure I'm doing wrong? Maybe my flour can't support this hydration? (I.e., a wet thing is more "liquid" than a drier one). Overproof? I've even seen Bread Code recommend freezing right before baking, probably to combat this issue, I believe. Also, minor error at 14:34, the Fahrenheit temperature should be 450, not 150. Thanks!
I have the same problem. My starter is active, I follow the recipe to the letter, but a pancake comes out of the fridge and I get practically no oven spring. I'd like to know what is wrong too.
Could the refrigerator proofing be replaced by room temperature proofing of 1-2 hours? I’m very interested in baking in bulk, but don’t have much fridge space. Thanks for all your amazing content! I haven’t looked anywhere else for sourdough advice since finding your channel. Especially love the energy saving experiments. Coincidentally, I realize non refrigerated proofing would also be energy saving. Thanks again, from Albuquerque USA.
While waiting for Sune's response, my 2¢ is that nearly every recipe I see for sourdough says for flavor and texture and gluten, fridge is best. BUT you can still do it on the counter if need be (till it rises an adequate amount) - just bearing in mind the sacrifice to your bread. I have your problem, small fridge that's packed to the gills.
It can. The reason I don't include it in the recipe is that it complicates things substantially. By the time you've baked the first loaf, the second one might be over proofed. When you keep it in the fridge, you remove that variable. You can bake 1, 8, or 20 loaves and they're all perfect :) The fridge is on anyway, so how much is saved? I know that having to cool the doughs would probably raise power consumption a bit, but I guess it depends on how many kilograms of dough and at what temperature they start :)
Judy, I have the same problem really, but I just have a shelf that can host 4 loaves in bannetons and just live withthe lost space. I never put any more than can be cleared out in a jiffy, so I can always bake :) If you bake a lot, I think getting a "baking fridge" may be worth it, just for the peace of mind :)
Sune… question: I’m trying your bulk fermentation guaging method using the Cambro container. When you use a proofer to “bulk warm” at 85F, do you use it from the mix, onward, or do you use it just after last stretch and fold? Having great success with your methods… Thanks!
Hi Sune great video. It is basically the same way I make my sourdough bread. Two question : Do you really need to preheat the oven and do you need to bake so long? I start with cold oven and bake for 35 minutes at 210C with air circulation on, using a shallow Pyrex glass plate and adding 200ml of water to the bottom of my oven for steam. The results are quite good. Does preheating makes a big difference?
That flour will work fine for bread. You may need to adjust hydration a bit. I use King Arthur all-purpose flour, which has 11.7% protein content, and my favorite hydration level to use when NOT adding whole grain, is around 67% hydration. My bread turns out amazing!
It will depend on the specific flour, but I don't see why not. I did an experiment about if you could make good sourdough bread with all-purpose flour, and you absolutely can: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6UPdNUbk8Qg.html
I find this video confusing. At the start you say that this is a simpler method and I'm not going to do any of that, meaning stretch and folds and stuff then you make it with stretch and folds. It just looks like the same method to me. I have found out that what ever you do you still end up with a good loaf in the end. I think it is in the baking where it's more likely to go wrong. My first loaf turned out under baked. I thought it sounded hollow but it wasn't enough. I now have a system 😊 I can bake 4 loaves at once using baking 2 baking stones and the open steam method. This is for 2 reasons, first i don't always want to bake so i always have some in the freezer, second it's more economical. Through experimenting I have found that I get a great loaf with lots of oven spring by baking at 190 C for 20 minutes plus about 25 minutes depending on size. Along with preheating, the oven is on for over an hour so with the high energy costs it makes sense 😊
I am saying to DON'T have to do anything, but I like to work my dough and feel it :) What's simpler about this recipe is you can mix everything and put it straight to fermentation and get the same results :)
I had a question. How do you go about making your hydration targets for sourdough bread? Like if I wanted to do 300g flour with 20% inoculation but 80% hydration, are you calculating the hydration percentage to include the flour and water in the starter? If so, is there a faster method you use than doing a bunch of algebra or linear algebra?
I guess also if we use baker's percentage on the salt, your recipe has 2% based on the weight of the non-starter flour only. If I was making a dough using only commercial yeast, that would make sense since the flour we use to calculate is the same as the flour in total, but maybe the reason you like 3% is because it's normally not accounting for the flour in the starter?
Hey Sune, been using your recipie for about a year and my loaves are yummier than my local bakeries! Quick question: I've always followed your 2 loaf instruction, but considering it takes me about 4 days to consume my first loaf, my second loaf always suffers. If I bake both on one day, it is stale when I'm ready for it. If I keep it in the fridge and bake it 4 days later, it won't rise and have as open a crumb as the first loaf during the bake. I'm wondering if you have any suggestions? Is the freezer ever a good option?
Hey, I just finished this recipe and I noticed that my bread didn't hold any of the tension i created when I shaped it, once it was out of my banneton. Is it normal? I spent a lot of time shaping the dough and I can assure you it was tight.
Hi Sune, has something happened to your Bread Calculator? The page doesn't seem to load. I love using it to scale up and down my loaf, I'm lost without it.
@@Foodgeek Thank you for replying! It's working fine now! Just used it! Honestly I was lost without it when it didn't work for 1 day! Thank you again for creating it!
Hi. Minor problem. When I go to the link for the recipe the instructions and ingredients are all there but when I try to print it I get the older Master Recipe (version 1) for Artisan Sourdough Bread. I know it's an easy fix could you possibly correct this for future viewers?
Took me a while, having read this question and the reply over and over, to understand the purpose of the 25/50/100% rise depending on the bulk fermentation temp. Now I get it! So there is still some rising that occurs after shaping when the loaf goes into the banneton (and then the fridge) and its temp is dropping in the fridge? Interesting. This recipe is truly masterful. It has replaced the NYT Sourdough guide I've relied on in the past. So impressive! Thank you for all of these tedious experiments and the sharing of your brilliant results, Sune! I haven't purchased a loaf of bread in months and I have so much fun making this incredible bread!
You would have to be VERY sensitive to "seed oil spray" for this to be a problem. He only uses maybe as much as 5 grams for a double batch of dough, and most of that will stay in the container. Even if he got as high as one gram per loaf, you would only get a fraction of that per slice. If you're that sensitive to seed oils, you have bigger problems than can be addressed here. However, the good news is that you don't have to use seed oil spray. There are sprays that use olive oil, for instance, or you can manually oil the bowl with whatever oil, butter, or grease that you have on hand. And actually, you don't have to use any oil at all. I spritz a little water in the bowl that I bulk ferment in. Since the gluten in the dough is already well developed by bulk fermentation time, it doesn't really stick to the bowl. Bottom line is that you have options, and for most of us, seed oil spray is a good option. If it isn't a good one for you, then do whatever works in your kitchen.
To help release the dough easily from the bulking container. It's probably a fraction of a gram, and I doubt a lot of it makes it into the dough. Nobody says you have to follow my suggestions, I'm just a guy on the Internet :)
Hi Sune, I consider myself a disciple of your sourdough bread methods and lessons. But I have to say, the advertisement content of your recipes has gotten completely out of hand! I looked up your "Master Recipe, Ver. 2" today. I wanted to print a fresh copy (It's my "go-to" recipe.) I counted no less that 12 advertisements by the time I got to the legitimate PRINT button. Come on, man! WAY TOO MUCH!
