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For or Against Constitutional Originalism?: A Debate 

National Constitution Center
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Stanford University professor Jonathan Gienapp, author of the new book, Against Constitutional Originalism: A Historical Critique, is joined by Stephen Sachs of Harvard Law School to discuss Gienapp’s challenge to originalists’ unspoken assumptions about the Constitution, the history of originalism as a constitutional methodology, and its role in constitutional interpretation today. Thomas Donnelly, chief content officer at the National Constitution Center, moderates.
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8 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 11   
@clickityclackity75
@clickityclackity75 21 час назад
“Constitutional originalism“ it seems as if assigning such a moniker, makes being loyal to the Constitution, a pejorative . Also, it tends to lead one to think the constitution is up for debate . I suppose all things are temporary 🤷🏼‍♂️ who knows. It’s not like a day goes by, where the constitution isn’t “un’d!”
@Minimmalmythicist
@Minimmalmythicist День назад
One problem with "originalism" is when they say "the Founders meant x", well the Founders didn´t have the same views on everything at all, a lot of the wording of the constitution was chosen after having gone through comittees as a compromise and probably a lot of the people who voted to ratify the constitution and the bill of rights ammendments understood what they were voting on slightly differently from each other. When it comes to the second ammendment, for example, more permissive versions were voted down. It´s actually remarkably unspecific in terms of what it guarantees and probably meant "the Federal government can´t abolish state militia". Some states had individual guarantees in their constitutions, some didn´t, and initially the ammendment only applied to the federal government. I don´t see how you can claim there was any one view of what it meant at the time. Another problem is that at times, new facts emerge. The constitution bans cruel and unusual punishments, and certainly the founders wouldn´t have objected to things like caning people for minor offences, or executing juveniles. However, the law has always allowed new evidence to be admitted, and much more has been learned since their time. Indeed, we know much more about human psychology and we know that teenage reasoning capacity isn´t fully developed. We also know that corporal punishments don´t really work and cause psychological trauma. To not take this into account is utterly absurd, it would be like arguing that "freedom of the press" only includes printed materials. Finally, the constitution does need a major update, unfortunately we have too much political disagreement for that to happen.
@thucydides7849
@thucydides7849 13 часов назад
George Mason, the co author of the second amendment, literally said the militia is to be interpreted as the whole body of the people, besides a few public officers. The state national guards are literally just state standing armies, they are not the militia. The militia is the people who would benefit from having arms in order to protect the assets, rights, and sovereignty, from offenders both foreign and domestic. The French intellectuals in the 18th century literally thought tyranny was impossible in the United States because the people had the right to bear arms. No one of the time thought militia meant “state sanctioned army”
@Minimmalmythicist
@Minimmalmythicist 11 часов назад
@@thucydides7849 Well, there are big problems here, 1) The Bill of Rights only applied to the federal government. 2) It doesn´t say what the purpose is for the guarantee 3) There were all sorts of restrictions on firearms, like you couldn´t keep powder in your house in New York, for obvious reasons. 4) Even if George Mason said that, it doesn´t give it any more weight than the other people who voted on it or debated it, or ammended the text. This is the problem with "originalism", it claims there is a mythical way of thinking that all the founders had, and it´s simply not true.
@tjohn6echo
@tjohn6echo 10 часов назад
@@thucydides7849 Its really not helpful to apply the meaning of the word "militia" as intended in the 1790s to today's society context. If hypothetically, the exact same group of Framers (and those who engaged in the debates) were alive today and they attempt to write the 2nd Amendment from a blank slate, but doing it in the context of today's society, they would NOT have written the 2nd amendment using the same language as they did so in the 1780s. Given their intent was originally to empower the state its sovereign (state) right to defend militarily against the federal government, they would have viewed the state National guard as the proper military armed "militia" of the people of the state.
@tjohn6echo
@tjohn6echo 10 часов назад
In my opinion, I believe both the "living" and "originalism" schools of thought each have their own respective strength and weaknesses. I don't think it is helpful to have court Judges bound themselves dogmatically to any fixed singular philosophy. For example, if the Supreme court Justices in the 1850-1860s had "progressed" in their judicial philosophy and took a more liberal view on the question of slavery; such as taking a step forward to depart from the (ideological) "intended view" of the Framers and properly recognize black folks as HUMAN BEING instead of "property" under the law, the Civil War might have been averted. On the other hand, the "living" constitution philosophy is susceptible to be exploited to stretch the meaning of the constitutional text too far and distort the structure to an unrecognizable shape. This risk is indeed real esp. in this era where the far-left progressives seem to rely a lot on postmodernism thoughts as authority. Therefore, I still believe that good old Common sense should and must eventually prevail, to interpret the meaning of certain key operating words within the context of the contemporary society and social norms.
@euphegenia
@euphegenia День назад
Not sure why we think we should leave the meaning of today's meaning of the Constitution to unelected judges. The Constitution means what it meant when it was written. Legislatures are free to fill in the blanks and/or revision/update it.
@Minimmalmythicist
@Minimmalmythicist 10 часов назад
The US constitution is insanely hard to update and really, the thing is politics these days is super-confrontational. A lot of the amendments were passed when there was less difference between the parties, i.e the amendment allowing a federal income tax, or the 24th ammendment, when many Republicans and Democrats decided it was time to support Civil rights reforms.
@MichaelHattem
@MichaelHattem 8 часов назад
@@MinimmalmythicistNonsense. The 13th, 14th, and 15th were passed during Reconstruction and the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th during the progressive era, both times of high partisanship.
@Minimmalmythicist
@Minimmalmythicist 7 часов назад
@@MichaelHattem I think you win the prize in missing the point. In the case of the 13th and 14th ammendments, the Southern senators couldn´t vote, so that´s half of the opposition gone. Likewise, in the "progressive era", the Republicans and Democrats basically weren´t that different from each other. You could barely fit a piece of paper between them. Wilson, Taft and Roosevelt in practise were more similar as presidents than they were diferent.
@jaradshaw4723
@jaradshaw4723 13 часов назад
Im for Orgionalism, that being the consituion prior to civil war, 15% flat income tax. change for federal.
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