This comment is to sincerely apologize for accidentally misgendering Ruby. I tried so hard to make sure I was correctly labeling them. I even asked my editor for this episode to correct me if I slipped up. We did our best to address them properly but this isn’t to provide excuses. Just to say it was never done intentionally and I hope people can allow me some grace in knowing that I was wholeheartedly doing my best. Thank you for watching.
There's a difference between someone doing it maliciously and someone genuinely trying and slipping up, most of us are pretty ok with the second. Its clear you weren't deliberately trying to hurt them
It was clear you weren't intentional or malicious in it, we are human. I would assume that especially coming from a Cult-y background, you likely never even had the vocabulary or references to non binary, genderfluid, etc, etc. It's a steeper learning curve, and you can give yourself some grace.
I can really see how much Chavie and Ruby trust each other. The fact that Chavie said she wanted the internet to feel "right for *them*" is so telling; that her goal wasn't to control Ruby, but to help them understand themselves and what they feel resonates with them and makes them feel safe and valued. Incredible.
My grandparents left the ultra orthodox community in Borough Park, New York, when my mother was just a baby. I am grateful and I am so proud of this family. Amazing. Things are on the horizon for them. -Vanessa
I could honestly listen to Chavie share her perspectives ALL DAY. Holy shit what a wonderful human. Grateful for her to have come back and share her beautiful family with us! ❤❤
I cried throughout the whole video, listening to these stories always makes me feel grateful and lucky that I was given this much freedom from the day I was born, and it also made me more understanding towards people who live inside these communities. I work in a book store and a few days ago an orthodox Jew walked in and spent hours reading all kinds of book on different topics, and left only when I had to close for the day (he didn't buy anything). In the past I might have been weirded out by this person but after listening to your podcast I felt glad that he had this opportunity to read everything he did that day, and I hope that it is a step towards a better life for him.
Well, I am not surprised at all that Chavie would have such an intelligent, thoughtful child. Thank you Ruby for sharing your thoughts and truth with us. Bravo.
I'm not dealing with religious trauma, but I am dealing with trauma. And Chavie's Linda Listen really speaks to me. And so does Ruby's. They're important things to remember when healing from any traumas. Chavie, you raised a really wonderful human, and I love seeing how proud you are of them. Ruby, you're doing amazing, keep it up!
I wish I had the intestinal fortitude that Ruby had when I was younger. I was raised a strict southern Baptist and it was miserable being forced into going to church and youth group when I didn’t believe what I was being taught. I would be myself at school but when I got home I had to force myself to become a fake person or risk more beatings from my mother. I raised my own daughter to be a strong, independent person free to express herself how she wanted to, as long as she didn’t break the rules at school, and to explore and express her own identity. My mother tried to control every aspect of my life from my hair cut all the way down to my shoes. She gave me no freedom to be myself at home or around other people outside of school. School was the only place I could be me. My mother was nothing like Ruby’s. I wish she had been because I never really felt love from her right up until the day she died. I still don’t know what it’s like to be loved unconditionally by someone. It’s difficult to love yourself, much less someone else, when you never had a model or example in your life.
Did you go to vacation Bible School? I was born Catholic went to Catholic School and then; my uncle Richie introduced me to Pentecostal religion need I say anymore.... ✌🏼
Without the label "Hassidic community" the way Ruby and their siblings were treated at school would be called child abuse. Thankfully, they have a strong enlightened mother.
Wow, so awesome seeing a fellow nonbinary person on your channel! I too am nonbinary. It took me a long time to accept it due to growing up LDS even if I knew my mom would be accepting. The anti-LGBTQ rhetoric is so ingrained in us and my mom was a convert so she didn't know the things LDS primary and young adult teachers were telling us. She feels bad now but I'm so glad her teachings overpowered the church's. I love watching your channel and suggest it to everyone I meet!
"why are you assuming that that's a guy?" Children say some profound things. This is so wholesome and heartwarming. I see a mom and her kid who truly understand one another. That's dope. My parents are very straight laced and I'm so not that I've spent my adulthood trying to ensure my parents know who I am, so when I'm gone they'll at least remember who I chose to be.
What do you mean "when you're gone"? You are not going anywhere, hang tight!They will learn soon, don't worry. It takes time. Remember your value and find your community!
Ruby is such a reflection of their mom! The way they spoke about the parts of themselves that they like the most are from their mom resonates with me so much. I miss my mom every day.
What a beautiful conversation and interview. Thank you all for sharing ❤ Ruby, thank you for speaking up to the judge for what was best for you. Too often the judges and lawyers make decisions based on what’s “best” for the parents, not what is best for the children. I feel like you spoke up for all the kids that don’t have a voice in custody situations.
This is your first interview that made me cry. Not because of sadness, but because of the beautiful, touching, loving feelings Chavie and Ruby have for each other. Thank you.
Chavie is such a beautiful soul and Ruby is even more so if that’s even possible… the love, trust and absolute respect for each other that this Mother and child have for one another is so raw and refreshing… the world would be a much better place if there were more relationships like this 😊
Its great to see this being talked about, as an atheist non-binary person. There does seem to be a big link between trans/nb and people who leave these kinds of churches/cults. Whether as a rebellion against the gender roles enforced by the religion or because they are more likely to question those roles. I'm so glad Ruby is in an environment where they can be themselves and live their best life. Its scary how often the courts will allow children to continue being put back into these groups or made to visit with parents still in the cult and be harmed by it, by the people who are meant to protect minors
@@marquitaarmstrong399 You hear it a lot in minors who try to leave the fundie Mormon groups especially, they're "runaways" and Utah especially will often force them back into the group
I am finding the new LGBTQ stuff quite culty tbh there's lots of ideological absolutes that you have to agree to, and compelled language. I think freedom to be who you are without imposing or being imposed on is fantastic and what LGBTQ represented not so long ago. Lately I'm not so sure...
There is not one malicious bone in Sha's entire anatomy. She is just so sweet and accepting of others. Her heart-rendered apology gave an insight of her resume.
Ruby is such a wise young adult. It’s amazing to me the concepts and understanding they have about the world… at any age. And such a refreshing, understanding point of view. Chavie, also clearly an amazing person, has clearly done a wonderful job.
I grew up in the same community as Chavie I can’t relate to her story in a lot of ways Thanks for sharing your experience the world needs more brave people
I moved to Rockland County a few years ago (originally from South Africa) and the Hasidic community has always facilitated me to no end. I’ve met a large amount of people who have left that community and their stories. I’m glad to be hearing this too! ❤
This was a wonderful interview! Chavie is such a good mother to Ruby and, presumably, to her other children as well. Ruby has a great head on her shoulders and I wish them all the best out of life.
Omg, Chavie must be so incredibly proud of Ruby. Ruby's so emotionally intelligent and cool. ❤ What a beautiful family. ❤ I would love to know what Ruby wants to study in college? Oh, and congrats on your engagement, Chavie! ❤
Thank you so much for sharing your stories with us. As a nonbinary person who was not raised with religion at all, I struggled deeply with the systems of patriarchy. I can't imagine how hard it would have been coming from a high demand religious background. You are both shining examples of humanity and the bond between mother and child. It is truly heartwarming. All the best to you!!
Chavie and Ruby are INCREDIBLE. I'm totally and completely blown away by both of them! I love that Chavie briefly referred to the Upstate New York controversy; I grew up almost 4 hours north of Chavie and was still very much not allowed to refer to it as "Upstate New York" lol!! Actual upstaters, like those close to Canada, will come for you if you do, as Chavie has clearly experienced. 😂
Oh they absolutely will. North Country residents will absolutely remind everyone that they are the true upstate. Buffalo also gets indignant about NYC’s lack of geography skills. And calling the Northern Suburbs “upstate” is as borderline criminal as telling anyone from the North Country that anyone south is “upstate”. Hudson Valley residents really don’t like being called upstate when even Albany says we are downstate.
@@LeadTrumpet1 Yes! The politics of NYS geography are heavy lol! When speaking with a fellow New Yorker, I'll change my description of where I live depending on the place they call home. The one thing that tends to unite everyone in the state outside of NYC is resentment over the fact that city residents and the rest of the world act as if the city IS the state lol!
YES YES YES!! The parent/child relationship is what’s important!! 💗💗💗 48:21 could not agree more as far as social media (or any media for that matter 😜) is concerned 💯👏👍
Loved how you explained boundaries & how to set them & it is ok to do that. I talked about this with my younger nieces & my older niece said no one talked about setting boundaries & specially with girls.
I absolutely loved this video! Seeing a young person coming into their own and seeing Chavie's face as her child spoke, all the love, pride, and joy there was beautiful! Young people like Ruby give me hope for the future. They are truly remarkable!
Just out of curiousity: Is it common in the US to use "they" as a pronoun for non-binary people? I would probably find it difficult to get used to, but would try if someone feels better then. In Germany, I have never experienced it. So I am wondering if it happens a lot in the US and if people are used to it.
As a South African/ British person, as far as I know it's the norm in all English speaking countries. They/ them is used as a singular pronoun if you don't know the gender of person (like you haven't met them yet for example) or for some non-binary/ trans people who use those pronouns. Contrary to transphopic rhetoric, they/them has been used as both a plural and singular pronoun for hundreds of years. Hope that makes sense!
Its pretty common in English speaking countries, I'm not sure what the gender neutral pronoun that's preferred in German is but there usually is one. But of course people can decide what they want to use, just ask if you're not sure. Not all non-binary people use they/them and there's a tendency in the US to slap x on the end of word like latino/a, whereas in actual Latin countries they prefer e
@@nickywal there unfortunately isn’t one in German (aside from “it”, but - understandably so - most nb people don’t like going by “it”). In my (limited) experience, most nb’s in Germany prefer if you just refer to them by name and swap any pronouns for their name -even if it sounds a bit “repetitive”, but ofc it’s always best to just ask/ be attentive because I’m sure it varies 💙 We do however have a version of the “slapping an x onto words”, what we call gender-inclusive language. Most nouns in German, especially when referring to people/occupations etc are commonly used in their masculine plural form to refer to all genders. A lot of people nowadays are changing that to basically use the masculine form, speak a short pause and attach the feminine ending. The pause is to include all who don’t feel included in the gender binary. So if you were to take the word “actor” for example - which translates to “Schauspieler” whereas “actress” is “Schauspielerin” (just -in attached), the gender inclusive way would be to say “Schauspieler*in” (the * or sometimes : for the spoken pause) and that could also be used to refer to a (singular) nb person.
@@TheMikkiHor Thank you, I speak a little German but its still very surface level. In English it would usually just be actor for non-binary people unless they say otherwise, its interesting that that's what's preferred in German
Yes, English has a few different options for nonbinary pronouns but “they” is the most common / default pronoun. The other ones are very rare and many people don’t even know how to conjugate them.
Hi Shelise, You probably missed it, but Ruby's pronouns are incorrect in the chapter list of the video. They're being referred to as "she" and "her" instead of "they" and "them".
15:39 similarly, as far as observant kids… when my oldest was around 9 or 10 (almost a decade ago now), I don’t remember specifically what we were talking about (with his younger brother who was 4 or 5), he states… I think being gay is weird… then I said, non-judgmentally… hmm, oh really, well, ever since I can remember, I’ve liked both females AND males, so I’m kinda gay… he responds… oh wow, that’s cool, it’s like your ambidextrous, but with gender!! And of course I realize that it’s not a perfect metaphor for bisexuality, but it was still a pretty amazing response in the moment 🎉
Ruby & Chavie, thank you for being wonderful, kind and compassionate people. It gives me hope to see how people can grow and be kind in the face of hardship and to be able to build a better world instead of blaming people, loving people and blaming the systems or at least holding them to account. It can be easy to blame people for the pain, but often they are victims too. Better systems make the world better
The mother's woke ideas she taught ruby obviously influenced her. It is no accident that she turned out this way. Kids are impressionable. They absorb their parent's teaching.
The paradox is that, despite fleeing the Hassidic way of life because of its constraints, it's that way of life which bestowed upon Chavie that which she values most in life - her children. In a non-Hassidic society, it's very doubtful that she would have ended up with three children by age 25.
no there's no way. She would have been brainwashed to believe she needs to have a succession of failed relationships in her 20s, and still be swiping left and right in her mid-30s.
omg love this so much! i hope we’ll get to hear more from them! respect to both of them for going through all of this and coming out the other end being more insightful and emotionally mature than most grown adults, let alone 20 year olds. their relationship is so sweet too. a lot of people, queer kids especially aren’t so lucky unfortunately
I enjoyed this video. Those two are so adorable! Being in the LGBT community, I know what it's like to be in a controlling fundamentalist religious home.❤🌈
Chavie is absolutely adorable and so is Ruby. I'm so proud of them for being true to themselves and speaking out like this because it really helps people.
Ruby's jewelry and accessories are absolutely amazing, I'm a jewelry maker and run a small business. They are exactly the kinda of person I want to wear my jewelry 😂
@beeweisberger7957 OMG, YOU MADE THEM YOURSELF EVEN BETTER!!!! You're so talented!! My favorite jewelry to make is definitely earrings, more specifically, chandelier earrings. Or necklaces! But I make everything from bracelets to beaded bras. My art is my therapy, so I love to branch out in different styles!. Since you made your own jewelry, what's your favorite to make? I'd love to know 💞✨️ sending soooo much love darling. (Ps your advocacy for your pronouns is so inspiring from a fellow NB person! Also sorry this is such a long comment! Ahha)
@@gnomehomeneeds thank you! You’re such a sweetheart! I loveeee chandelier earrings. Also beaded bras sound epic and I’d love to see that. Right now I’m in the beading side of jewelry making and it’s so fun it feels like a puzzle you get to make from scratch. I’m trying to get into some wire and metal stuff though which hasn’t been easy but I love a challenge:) thanks for all the love💖💖💖
@beeweisberger7957 I totally agree! It's a puzzle to put together and make and then WEAR?!?! It's amazing, hahaha! If you have any social media for your jewelry, I'd definitely love to check it out! I do a lot of social media for my small business, so I always love supporting other creators :^)
@@beeweisberger7957omg Ruby during the episode I was thinking how much you’d love the jewellery and stuff my disabled & ND friend Tash makes. Her brand is pawn in suburbia
I’ve been binge watching your videos and it’s so hard to choose a story that has impacted me the most when every single person I’ve seen you speak to has been so incredible but omg the feelings that this video and Chavie’s previous one have given me are something else. Chavie seems like the parent all children deserve. The fact she had to continue to live in a way that had traumatised her in order to be able to see her children and to give them choices, I just cannot imagine the unbelievable strength that must have taken for all those years. She and her story are the proof that a parent’s love for their children can be strong enough to fight almost anything. And now to see what a wonderful, mature, intelligent and compassionate young adult Ruby is. 😭 you can see the pride in Chavie’s eyes through this entire video. I doubt they’ll see this but Chavie and Ruby I am so so pleased for you and in awe of you, and I am so grateful that you shared your story. It has had an impact on me and I’m sure many others. Shelise, the work you are doing is incredible. Thank you so much for giving so many amazing people the platform to share their stories, from the bottom of my heart, I am so grateful. 💜
Ruby is so incredibly wise and self-aware for such a young person, I admire them so much!! Chavie is an amazing mother & role model to aspiring moms such as myself; I hope to instill my future children with the same courage, autonomy, & convictions💖
I really resonate with Ruby explaining their experience with gendered expectations and just “playing the role”. I’m also non-binary but I just felt like I was acting along the path of least resistance but also knowing on some deeper level that it was just acting.
out of all the things I was expecting to hear from shelise's podcast, one of her guests being a city-as alum was not one of them!! I can just imagine the jump from a beis yaakov to there, it must've been the biggest relief they've ever felt to just be around all those interesting people and loving, SUPPORTIVE teachers. It's a place unlike any other I have ever been, and you can just hear that love in ruby's experience. I'm not even done but I just wanted to let both chavie and ruby know that I'm so happy for them ✨
Wow, this is so incredibly powerful. I am beyond thrilled that this channel ended up in my YT feed because I’m just just blown away by how cults like the Hasidic communities-and they are cults-how they subjugate women. I was raised as a reform Jew, and I just can’t believe that in this day and time we have these ancient cultlike religious groups that eschew modern life. Honestly, the worst part is how women are so subjugated, and even in our own ‘modern’ society, how power is being taken away from us women with the restrictions on abortion, It’s totally about taking power away from us. Chavie, Ruby, all the best to you in your new and wonderful lives! The world is your oyster! Go forth and sample every delicious bite!
I'm just watching this, so happie for Chavue and Ruby, feeling my heart warm for their beautiful relationship!! I think that Ruby shall be in university now, and I'm sending my best wishes and vibes for them in this new adventure! ❤ I'm also very jealous of the English language for having neutral pronouns. Lol. I originally speak Spanish and we don't have that neutral :( Great video, as always!! ❤
I have heard soooo many stories of the same thing especially about women who seriously struggled with custody of their children and the hasidic communities. It's really sad that judges take sides like this because I think a lot of them are politcally involved in some ways with the communities. I hear about the treatment and how they should live. I am so glad this mother and kids are having a difference experience and searching for their own meaning in life. That it takes a lot of courage to leave their known lives and to work towards and creating what feels right to them. All I have to say is good for them! I wish all people could do that.
Wow! I shot and engineered this pod episode. Just to be a part of people being able to tell their story and their truth. this is why i do it. beautiful work !
Another great video. I loved the different perspective. I have a similar story where my father left the orthodox community and the courts made it so he could not talk about it to me or my siblings. I did not know the extent of his disbelief in the religion until I came out to him as a atheist when I was 15. Thankfully I've been able to live with him and not hide who am I seen I came out. It's so refreshing seeing similar stories to my own because they are so uncommon. Thank you for sharing this! (And thank you for posting my comment in my video, much love
@CultstoConsciousness If you ever want another perspective of leaving the community I'd love to go on your channel. I love what you're doing and how you're doing it. I find it great how interactive you are with your audience and I've been Bing watching all of your videos
What a disappointment: starting afresh only for her daughter to get sucked into the gender cult. Mum shouldn't be supporting this idiocy, and nor should someone hosting a channel about leaving cults.
Hi Shelise, I’ve been watching a lot of your interviews recently and have been really enjoying them. I’ve learned so much from all the different voices you have invited on and your questions are very thought-provoking and interesting. I noticed a thing - and it might just be culturally lost in translation - but I feel like sometimes you sound like you’re not really listening to what your interviewees are saying and instead seem to think about what the next question is going to be when it’s your turn to speak. I hope this makes sense. I’m sorry if this is really blunt, but I hope that you take this in as an area you could improve on to make your interviews even better!
I've also noticed that often she asked several questions at once and they kind of get lost in the conversation. Its a pity because the questions are usually interesting and they get brushed over. In this episode too there was obviously some midgendering towards Ruby which kind of goes along with what you're saying about being too focused on the next question/ planned questions so that little but important details are not heard, like pronouns. I really like this channel and I think her interviews are generally well thought out and insightful but yeah there's always room for improvement!
I appreciate the feedback. A lot of times we cut my verbal reactions from the edit as to not take away from the guest, but I always make sure they know I’m intently following their story while we record. We also sometimes cut my reactions right after they stop talking and I start up, to keep the conversation moving. However, I will be more aware of this and try to add more commentary on their experience before moving on. thank you for being kind in your critique. ❤️
@@CultstoConsciousness Ohh of course, that makes a lot of sense! Thank you for explaining this. Yeah, I think I’d be really good to tweak the transitions a little bit more just so it does not evoke that effect anymore. I think you’re a really good interviewer - I think just the part of you reacting to what is being said is missing a little bit. And of course! We want to see you grow, Shelise! Your work is really important and you are already doing a great job in my opinion :)
OMG those skirts and tights…hated them…Specially since I have psoriasis and needed sun on my skin… but for me, I’m a Jew from Russia so we don’t have orthodoxy there, not since Holocaust, so for me everything was new. I didn’t even know that Jews don’t celebrate Christmas lol I thought I was the weird one.
I'm so sorry to hear that Ruby was subjected to being alone with rabbaim even in the name of kiruv work to bring or keep someone in the community. It's not usually considered tznius (holding reserved behavior and modesty) to have young females alone with older males who are not their own close family member, so it made perfect sense that they were uncomfortable! I'm sure that was very confusing to be forced to do that. I wonder what the principal said when it was raised as a concern of their own minhogim (religious traditions)! I'm glad you were able to go to the transitional school to prepare for college, it sounds like a wonderful place! I find myself curious to know more about how the frum family are treating them all now? (Some of the Orthodox are becoming less intolerant over time.)
What a beautiful interview. Enjoyed it thoroughly. I think I learned about Chavie's story on your channel, it has be nice following it and rooting for her and her family!
It really doesn’t have to. When someone says “Hey, do you know Riley?’- and you don’t know a Riley, and don’t know if they are a boy or a girl, many times you can say “Riley? I don’t know who THEY are. What’s THEIR last name?” The pronoun ‘They’ can absolutely be used for a singular person!
@@syd9394 That is an exception. He, she and it are singular pronouns. They and them are generally plural pronouns. If this pronoun issue is so important maybe it is time to make up a new pronoun to encompass the community.
@@syd9394 No one cares what I think but when some of my daughter’s friends refer to themselves as them I start looking around the room for the rest of the crowd.
