Stuff like this just makes me wonder how different things could have been. If you love racing history like this make sure you subscribe and check out the “racing history nerd zone” playlist on the channel! Stapletonautoworks.com
I don't know what it is about these videos, but I always end up watching them right away. I watch almost all of your videos eventually but the history stuff really gets me. I'm probably in the minority here on this but I also prefer the shorter format, 10-20 min is way easier for me to find time for than the longer stuff. Even if your were to break up some the longer videos and roll them out in multiple parts I'd be watching more of your content... I definitely need to know more about the "Taurus".
I love the different 'what-if' stories from different types of motorsports. Whether it's the scrapped BMW and VW Class 1 Touring Cars, the NASCAR L-R car, different IMSA and Trans-Am what-ifs or now this car... ...now to see if I can replicate this in 1:64.
That one off Taurus is definitely an interesting story, being a Blue Oval guy I’d love to hear what history you can dig up on that. I wholeheartedly agree that Ford’s decision to push the Taurus vs bringing a new fresh two door sedan (read: rwd!) into the market was a huge mistake as it alienated a ton of high performance people at that point.
It’s a shame you had to grow up in the Taurus days. When I was a kid I got to watch Bob Glidden and Bill Elliott clean house with their 80’s Thunderbird’s. My mom had to buy a T-Bird after watching Bill Elliott lap the field twice at Talladega.
Born in 92 and I hated the Taurus I love all the old car from the 80 and the early 90 but when they switch to the Taurus and Monte Carlo style I hated it
When sales numbers fall, cars get cancelled or replaced. The Thunderbird was at a point where it made no sense. It was neither a family car, nor a sports car. At the time it was finally cancelled, people were buying family cars, sports cars and the SUV craze was just starting to take off. Cars that lacked identity and sales, got cancelled. The only way Ford could have justified keeping the Thunderbird around, would have been to repurpose it to compete directly with the Corvette again, which they don't actually want to do.
They did make the "retro" styled T-Bird in the early 2000s, but it wasn't cheap and the 4.6 V8 was plagued with problems. Ended up being more trouble than it was worth to keep building.
That generation of Taurus was an awful-looking road car and looked even worse as a NASCAR. I'm curious to hear the story about the one out back, though!
The Taurus was the start of cars having no relationship to the real road car. It was such terrible aero package they had rewrite the book to have a y competition.
Kranefus/Haas also built a Mark VIII but kept the Continental rear deck with the rear spoiler following the contour of the hump. It put the spoiler higher in the center and gained downforce. This same idea was used on the later "Intimidator" Monte Carlos with great success obviously. The team unloaded it at Charlotte in full Kmart livery on purple paint and John Andretti drove it. IIRC, it was as fast as the current Thunderbird right out of the box. I believe this would have been a very successful car and again, if memory serves me, NASCAR was good with it. Then Ford changed their corporate mind and decided to keep Lincoln as its luxury division. A missed opportunity IMHO.
I wanna hear more about the Taurus. That thing has a big ol butt stuck on it. Same thing that he said about the Mark7 though, not enough trunk to make downforce, I can't tell exactly what they did, but I'm sure its twice as tall at the trunk as a normal taurus.
I worked in Ford Body CAD in the nineties. I remember there was some work being done on a T-bird roofline that was a good bit lower than the stock vehicle. This story reminded me of that and how the two could be related. Cool story Stapleton
Interesting point on the rear spoiler. The 2000-2002 Monte Carlos had a pretty similar (not as dramatic) hump in the rear spoiler as the 37 car shown. And, yes, we need to know more about the big booty Taurus!
I've been a nascar fan since I was a little kid in the mid-late 90's, right as the thunderbird went away and the Taurus showed up. I always thought the Taurus was goofy looking and didn't look right on track. I bought a mark viii as my first car, and still own one today, so it's great seeing these cars get some attention on your channel. I knew about the John Andretti car, but I had no idea this car existed! It really makes me wonder what could've been. This body combined with Yates power of that era would've been almost unstoppable. Keep up the good work, you've got one of the best channels on youtube.
quite a few years back my family and I got to meet Mr. miller while we were on vacation there. He gave us a little tour around the museum. and brought us outside to show us the drag car that he was going to run one last time if his wife did not find out lol. I wonder if he got to run that car? I May have to go back down there and find out. great guy and awesome museum. we enjoyed it a lot more then the hall of fame.
Damn Taurus looked like it had the newer escort tail lights, hell yea man this back story videos for all brands is fkn awesome. These are a part of racing history 95% of us have never heard or would have ever known without you bringing it to us, im a die hard Ford guy and never knew any of this with the Lincoln as a race car. I cant go to car Museums, last one they almost ran me off because i cant just look at the outside and be happy, i was sliding under them looking at what made them work vs todays stuff so they got pissed and we argued then the big 300lb guy told my little 120lb ass i best get to stepping so stepping i did.
@@bravesws95 Yeah search Google images for a 96 Taurus with a side view. That silver one has some drastic alterations to the trunk lid and quarter panels. Ford probably could have sold them like that advertising extra ten cubic feet of trunk capacity.
Now I went to some of those museums in 2012 and I just asked them if I could look at some of the details of the cars and they let me do it. Granted it was on a weekday and hardly anyone was there, but I found everyone to be pretty friendly and nice to let me take pictures and stuff up close of some of the cars. I just made sure not to touch anything.
Back in 1997, I was working at a car rental office on Sharon Amity Boulevard in Charlotte, NC (Branch 5311 for any old-school “E” folks). We received a reservation from a NASCAR team for a Ford Taurus. As a race fan...I spoke with the guys that were sent to retrieve the car. They said they were going to use it to make some templates...which I thought was pretty cool. They loaded the rental Taurus on an open trailer...and returned it a few days later (with the same mileage...they didn’t even put a mile on the vehicle).
By gosh Mitch you keep knocking it out of the park with these interviews.. Don Miller a legend during the Miller Lite days should've asked him about the legendary "midnight car" driven by Rusty Wallace... keep up this kinda great work
Working as a porter at a Ford Lincon Mercury dealership just south of Awesome Bill from Dawsonville Ga I got to drive a bunch of bling-bling back and forth to ATL Ford executive head office. Back then I couldn't figure out why the pimpest ride wasn't being raced. Now I know. Thanks, guys for finally solving a long-ago mystery for me. There certainly would have been a cup with Mark's name on it!
I’ve had 7 Marks in the course of my life and I’ve loved everyone of them. The best was when I was in high school surprising the Camaros and Mustangs when we would race.
I was a police officer in the Daytona Beach area back in 1990 and I pulled Mr. Miller over one night. The race team was behind him in a truck and they jumped out and we all chatted for a few. It was about 2 in the morning and they had all been out partying (with Don Miller). Lots of fun back in those days.
I went to that museum years ago with my grandpa and my uncle. When I heard the story of that Lincoln I thought it was one of the coolest pieces of racing history.
I had a 93 Mark 8 in the 90's and loved it. It was fast on the highway and smooth riding. Amazingly it got great gas mileage on the highway, not so much in town. I'd heard rumors of a possible Cup car in NASCAR at the time, and now I know the rest of the story.
If they'd made this, I would've owned it at some point. I loved the Mark series. The Marauder was cool as they made it, but a grand tourer would've been so much cooler.
I've owned a few Mark VIII's and have a '95 as my fun car in the garage. Trust me many of us knew all about this car when it was out and couldn't understand Ford/Lincoln built such a car and held it back.
I'm 43 and seen all the cool cars that were driven on the track when Nascar was cool. I think the cars they are running now are the best looking since the 90s.
Growing up and watching Winston cup and having that curiosity of how these men were doing what they did how these cars went so fast just the little things of yes you did this but how does it work why does it work that's how these men directly influenced me to get into mechanical engineering so to actually see and hear some of the stuff that went on behind the scenes is just amazing for me and I would imagine for anybody that grew up in that time frame this is just thank you it's really all I can say to you and them for sharing their stories this is just amazing
Very cool to talk with Don and get some insight behind that car. I'm sure like a lot of the guys that have been around racing for a long time he has a lot more stories to tell.
Yup. This was a good looking car and the Taurus was eurgh. I had been a Petty fan as a little kid because my Dad drove Dodges, but as Dale was emerging became a fan.
I HAVE to know the history of that Taurus in the parking lot. It has always mystified me. I could tell something was up with the rear trunklid/bumper and I would fixate on it as I drove by every day on my way to working at the Penske wind tunnel nearby. I never had time to stop and look into it and would only work there a week or so at a time before returning to Michigan, but could tell it was significantly reshaped and not just a bad repair job. It bugged me so bad that I even had my parents stop and take some photos of it for me years later when they were on a trip south and drove through Mooresville! This is the biggest mystery in my life and I need answers so I can sleep at night!
Man, I had a mark viii in highschool..thing was an absolute ripper. Leather and air ride. Got it cheap because it needed compressor and bags. Cool to hear from Don Miller. Big Rusty fan growing up too
Oh I remember the Taurus fiasco, from 4 doors to 2 doors. But ford wanted to use it because it was a huge selling car when it came out. Great video, thanks Mitchell and Logan.
I grew up in a lil trailer court in my hometown and our neighbor was a really nice old man that helped teach me alot of things from taking care of my bike to building jumps for it that weren't going to come apart after hitting the jump 3 times haha..he drove a green colored Lincoln mark VII...that thing was showroom mint right up to the last time I saw it in his driveway...truly miss ol Harry
The race Taurus actually looked infinitely better than the street version. I actually am a bit fonder of that 98/99 body style because it was such a weird footnote in the history of things. That Thunderbird tho was legit. In reality though, the Taurus was fine, it just had some superspeedway struggles by itself but always drafted well. So many "coulda, shoulda, woulda's" out there, gotta tell as many of those stories as you can. Great job!
We are building a 1993 Ford Thunderbird for a customer! Race car version! The Superbird would’ve been an awesome thing to see! It was before my time! Cool video
I've never seen this before, though I remember John Andretti being a big advocate as the then-current Monte Carlo was absolutely beating up on the Fords.
I remember back then when one of the Nascar weekly TV shows on either TNN or ESPN network, there was mention of Jack Rouse playing with a Lincoln for use in Nascar. Seems like Jeff Andretti was driving it in practice.
Your right about that they had the car at the track race ready built to the rules with stock hood ,roof and deck lid. I don't remember who was the car owner or driver. I seen the same show your talking about it was on TNN.
Stapleton, I'd love to see 00 Reutimann's Dominos or Burger King Specials either in a Proper Museum Home or Raced Again. I love to see some of the Earlier Toyotas be Homed in either a Museum or Race Track. I still Mad at China Red Bull is doing Red Bull things, especially if the F1 Team is too big for its own good.
Would definitely love to hear the story behind the Taurus because it’s clearly stretched out in the back and to me it looks like it has lights from an escort 🤨 depending something interesting going on there
Really enjoyed watching Bill Elliot driving the thunder bird. Agreed the Monte Carlo was a cool race car. Would like to see the story of the Taurus that is outside.
Holy crap what a great interview, hit this outta the park, gunna have to check out this museum my next day off work, place is only a few miles up the road from me and I need to see this car in person
Nascar seems to have a lot of this... Incredibly nice, soft spoken, mega successful people that just want to tell stories to whoever will listen. I hope you get Schrader one day. He's seriously awesome to meet and talk to. My first experience with someone heavily involved in Nascar happened at my uncles house in upstate NY around 92 when I was 8. He owned a couple hundred acres of land with ponds, I was brought over to go fishing, I was only 8 and admired Rusty Wallace and had his shirt on, but I also liked Dale Earnhardt and was wearing a #3 hat. We went back to my Uncles house after fishing and he was having coffee with a friend who said "hey son, cool shirt but that hat isn't okay around me" jokingly. My uncles friend was Geoff Bodines crew chief and told me a long story about why his driver wasn't friends with Earnhardt anymore. 🤣
NASCAR didn’t want that car racing cause it would have been dominanting the competition like when nascar said the Daytona super bird and the 1974 Dodge Charger Richard petty drove was to fast they want the field equal
Ford had the Talladega also, main part that killed them was technology was not up to par, at the speeds these cars were capable of going, tires were coming apart.
There's a couple other significant. Mark Viii's ,land speed record tan one, twin supercharged white one Tasca Ford built I believe animal jims black one.. Lowest drag coefficient car that Lincoln has ever produced., I owned a champagne and a silver one, both awesome cars they were like a flying couch with air ride. But parts getting tough to find.
I owned a 93 Mark 8, white with a black interior in the 90's and loved it so much I had a chance to buy a 94 Mark 8 in 2009, Black with a grey interior, 63,000 miles for $3200. I snagged it and still have it. Yes parts are hard to come by though.
Taurus video please, automotive and racing history is very important to be shared especially with fine gentlemen of the era that can share their first hand experience
I`m definately down for the story on that silver car! Back then I wasnt a Ford fan either, (team #3 forever!) but I do like the cool stories of how and why things happened, no matter the driver, team or brand! Keep `m coming, I`ll keep watching, liking and commenting!
i think it would have been the Mercury Marauder and it would have been an absolute monster in its first season and then Mr. Bill France would step in and do what he did to Gordon's T-Rex and rewrite a bunch of rules around that particular car to either ban it or remove its advantage
Was working at Ford Racing when that happened. And the Ford Taurus Prototype out in the parking lot with the Monte Carlo rear bumper Was Developed in my department in Dearborn
I love these type videos. Your passion for racing history is amazing. Please keep making these. Don't forget the car builds as well. I like a variety of content, keeps it from getting stale and redundant. Great job you two.
Front wheel drive cars got like 4 more inches of rear width or something like that if I remember correctly... shaped em like a wedge... dope vid again dude 🤘
So good to see Mr Miller again, I dealt with him a number of times during my stay in NASCCAR, a nicer guy you will never find. Cool story, I knew of the KH Lincoln as I had access to the shop and took photos of it back in the day. I did not know the Superbird stroy, shows that there are still stories to dig up. THX
Oh hell yeah love this fantastic channel and all the adventures and cool stuff you do and share thanks for all the awesome content so far and what’s to come!
Another great video in the discussion/interview series. Well done again. This truly isn’t you father’s Lincoln. The rear bumper lines, with the comparable photo you posted, drove it home. Love to see a video on the Taurus, if you’re up to it. Just wanted to add, no matter the brand you take the time to give it respect. Greatly appreciated.
Long time subscriber, first time commenter. Love the content you and Logan put out. My grandfather worked for Texaco, so I grew up around the old Yates 28 show cars. I rep my Stapleton Auto Works Robert Yates style shirt and hat all the time. Thanks for telling the stories of old time NASCAR and keeping the history alive!!
I LOVE old history like this! It's what made me want to know EVERYTHING about NASCAR!!! But.....I certainly didn't know about this! So glad you are getting stuff like this on film. Sadly, guys like this won't be around for ever and if stuff like this wast documented, it would be lost. That car would probably be gotten rid of as "some old dumb race car" and it would just suck if that were to happen. Awesome video dude!!!
@@Stapleton42 you are very lucky to be able to talk to all the folks you've had in your videos. I know the "Tribute Petty" car was kind of a joke (it was the first video of yours I watched...I've since watched the rest of your collection) but even talking the guys at that shop was really informative and I'm sure had a ton of history behind them. 🤘🔥
aww man that was good i like to hear about the cars back then that looked so fast settting still man i could spend all day long in there walking around and looking at everything that place is awesome
I love your Nascar videos. You really do a great job of getting the history. I have been into Nascar since the 60's and I have a 89 Iroc Z and a 04 Intimidator Monte Carlo. Keep up the good work. I watch all of your videos.
Cool! Love to hear about racing history, this rocks! Glad to see you two exploring the NASCAR background and documenting it for all of us. Always with you & Logan, & keep up the excellent video content! Thanks man!
LOGAN and Mitchell are back at it again. Like,share and enjoy everybody. This is magnificent content and the story told through the eyes of thw ones before us that made racing today what it is. You guys are blowing my mind with these interviews.
The car they used in the test wound up being reskinned and converted over to a Ford Thunderbird and Dale Jarrett promptly won with at Bristol in August of 1997. And of course, Don Miller was a partner in Penske Racing when Rusty, Don, and Roger Penske formed that team. It's no wonder Rusty put so much into winning and being competitive as he owned part of his car. I never knew Rusty was a partner in his own race team back then.
Do you know if the car in the video was a different iteration? I notice that the center decklid isn't tapered nearly as much (if at all) compared to the Andretti test car.
If it was the same car I doubt they would have gone to the trouble of reskinning is again to put it on display, but I certainly could be wrong. And it surprises me that Dale Jarrett would have driven it since he was with Robert Yates and I don't recall Penske having an association with RYR. Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.
Great video Mitch. At the time, Ford's decision to switch to the Taurus in '98 was extremely disappointing to me as a 16 year old fan, especially because it was getting axed just in time for Nascar's 50th anniversary. The Thunderbird was so much better looking than the new Taurus (even as a blue oval fan, I can't see how anyone would actually spend money on that Taurus body style). The Thunderbird was the last vehicle in Nascar (at that time) which was still a V8 RWD platform in street car form. Growing up, I was a big fan of Bill Elliott, Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, Davey Allison, and Alan Kulwicki, and those T-Birds were some awesome looking machines. You bring up a fascinating point at 14:30 - as a young kid, you probably figured Ford was the hokiest thing on the track (and the street) because of the lame choice of body styling. Being a little older, I got to enjoy the T-Bird setting records at Daytona and Talladega and was the car my favorite drivers and teams chose. By the late 90's, there was no doubt the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix were much better looking race cars. That being said, I'd still love to see a video about the old Taurus sitting out behind the museum. Keep up the great work!
I was too. Just thought how much the Taurus were successful with Daytona 500 wins and three cup championships. Even though I love the T-Birds it was time for a change for the blue oval.
For just the fun of racing and marketing, surely Ford could've sent a bunch of Lincolns to a shop for homologation specials. And they could've called it the Wily E Coyote. :)
My dad used to buy Lincolns because of the Mexican Road Race and their wins. He then switched to Chrysler 300's and had a 58 D and a 60 F. Too bad they didn't make the "Hot Rod Lincoln".
Love the channel btw and love how you're teaching the history of a sport I love, last post was definitely not meant to throw shade...Just an old Nascar fan/dude perspective 👍☺
It Would been cool if a race team had the choice to keep using the thunderbird body. Have Taurus and Thunderbirds on the race track at the same time? In the seventies they had Monte Carlo's and Chevelles , Laguna's ('75 which is the best looking stock car ever). Thanks for making video,very interesting 🤔 content !!
Great video. Don Miller really is a cool guy, and he helped make Penske Racing a powerhouse. Do you have a link for Mark Martin’s podcast where he talks about the struggles they had with hanging the bodies?
