Aside a few exceptions, Rowling foreshadows purposefully for each specific book, but it usually doesn't go beyond said book. What she does more than that is take what is established and build on it giving the impression it was planned all along i.e. the vanishing cabinet. Imo, her best bit of foreshadowing was the "glint in Dumbledore's eyes" in Goblet of Fire with the payoff in Hallows. That bit was brilliant.
@damgful sorry I didn't mean to send the nerd emoji I meant to send another one. Can't remember which but I think they were next to each other at the time
The 13 to dine thing also comes up twice again. At Harry's first night in 12 Grimmauld Place, there are 13 people present for dinner and Sirius is the first to rise from his seat. Then in DH, there are 13 present to drink a toast in memory of Moody and Remus is the first to leave.
Regarding Horcruxes, they don’t really exist until book 6. From a writing standpoint if they existed earlier they would be used as a Macguffin or red herring earlier. Tom Riddle’s diary is a retcon, sort of like Loki’s Scepter, the tesseract, and the aether becoming infinity stones in the MCU. The concept of Voldemort being a repeatable villain and a hard sumofabitch to kill is obviously early on and harry having a part of Voldemort in him is, but the exact mechanism isn’t figured out until later.
"The chamber pots room" was mentioned in book 5 when Dobby told Harry about the Room of Requirement. It goes as follows- 'And if you really needed a bathroom," said Harry, suddenly remembering something Dumbledore had said at the Yule Ball the previous christmas, 'would it fill itself with chamber pots?'
Much of this wasn't a surprise to me, though I didn't read HP until 2021 and I'm in my late 50s. I think it takes an adult mind to understand that true foreshadowing is designed to leave you ignorant until the writer chooses otherwise, so don't beat your 10-year-old self up too much. I also think it takes an adult mind to understand Dumbledore. I wish people would look at the bigger picture regarding his actions and motives. Though I could write an essay, suffice it to say that if you are the chief enemy and you don't have an army at your disposal, you are forced to run a resistance organisation. in such circumstances, information and its dissemination becomes your primary weapon and safeguard. Group members cannot reveal,when captured, what they do not know. Timing then becomes critical: what to tell whom, and when to tell them. Did Dumbledore always get the timing right? No, of course not because he is human - for all that he is also a powerful wizard. I think the fandom has a big problem with this; they expect the chief good guy to also be perfect. Yet, Dumbledore, unlike many real human gbeings I know, is self-aware enough to admit his errors. He is also all too aware of the over-riding imperative: the war must be won at all costs. Everything else must be subjugate to that imperative if the world you know and those you care about are to be safe. He can't allow his growing affection for Harry to stand in its way no matter how much he may wish to. Voldemort activated the prophecy once he gave it credence, forcing Dumbledore and Harry to play their parts. Fanfic writer and Dumbledore sceptic, Perverse Idyll, put it this way: "Of course, it could be said in Dumbledore's defence that he'd been forced to play - and it hadn't been a game. If he'd lost, the broken trust of a teenage boy would have been the least of the ensuing disaster." I am thoroughly convinced that although HP began as a story for children, it certainly did not evolve that way. There are layers upon layers of nuance which I find fascinating. Thanks for yet another thought-provoking presentation. As a recent and older reader of HP it is all too easy for me to forget that waiting for new books to arrive would have produced a very different reading - at least initially.
It became painfully clear in Philosopher's stone , and even much more in the following books that Dumbledore was not only aware of everything happening, but he was intentionally manipulating people into certain events happening. Cleary he was testing, and training Harry from the start. After Chamber Dumbledore had successfully indoctrinated Harry into total loyalty. Thus making Dumbledore's job easier. Whether it was hiring the perfect DADA teacher for the plot of each year, or crazy things like sending first yrs into a dark dangerous forest with a unicorn killer hanging around, or givingva 13 yr old a time turner to manipulate time because.....she needed time ...for extra classes? Like there wasn't a genuis wizard before Hermoine that never got one. From choosing Mad Eye the exact time Wormtail escaped, and Crouch Jr. escaped Askaban and kidnapped Moody. Certain things had to happen ,impossible, incredible things that would of changed the story if they didn't happen. He just happened to hire Slughorn the same yr they were seeking Horcruxes? Giving Harry , a friggen 1st yr one of the Deathly Hollows , so he could eventually find the mirror of Erised. I knew by POA that Dumbledore was directing everything and that Snape was a double agent. There are so many clues to this. The adults in this world are portrayed as inept, impulsive, and some outright evil.
The scene where Vernon gets "shocked" for attacking Harry, I figured that was just his mom's protection shielding him. Since Vernon had become a threat to Harry, he got a VERY mild dose of whatever took Quirrell out as a warning
The plot holes video came up on my feed a couple days ago and ever since i've binge watched all your harry potter videos and re discovered my childhood love for the series. I'd fall asleep to the audiobooks every night and was introduced to them around the age of 5 through the chamber of secrets movie. Don't stop making videos, these are great and i'll keep watching!
I love your videos. You go and do these great deep dives into the source material and talk about things that I thought I was the only one to notice when I first read and then reread the books. The best part is that you aren’t smug about it and act like you think you are so much smarter than everyone else like some creators who talk about HP can be. Love the content and can’t wait to see more!
Thanks for the great comment! I am genuinely just a normal reader. Lots of things I probably get wrong along the way, but hopefully that’s part of the charm of the channel!
@ that is part of the charm is that you are just a fan and a normal reader just like the rest of us. Keep up the great work and you will have me for a sub as long as you are making great content
57:22 Regarding the kidnapping, one of the most horrific theories I’ve heard is based on the unfounded/undebunkable claim that Bertha was pregnant. After she was killed & made horcrux fuel, they took said theoretical foetus & Moldy possessed it.
with the Firenze and Bane thing from book 1 looking back I thought it might have been foreshadowing Harry's death to Voldemort in that very forest. They were upset that Firenze averted harry dying that night.
To bolster your theory about the Christmas gifts foreshadowing the deathly hollows: toothpick = elder wand tissue = cloak of invisiblity 50 pence = resurrection stone - but why? Also a stretch, as publishing a book takes some time, but hear me out: The first Harry Potter book was released in 1997, where the first present of the 50 pence is given (never read the books, this is what google told me and actually the theory would be more sound if it was in a later book) In 1997 an incredibly rare 50 pence coin was released into circulation, having freesia on one side. Freesia is associated to mean trust and friendship, but also a deeply rooted love. The resurrection stone is meant to bring back a loved person. A person you trusted. Like characterized by a freesia. Maybe the Dursleys wanted to be cheap by just sending 50 pence, not realizing how valuable that coin actually was? Just my little theory to fill that gap =)
I always figured Harry shocking Vernon in OOTP was just reflexive magic, kind of like him ending up on the roof to get away from Dudley's gang when he was younger. I don't know that it had anything to do with him being a Horcrux, and the fact that he wasn't a deliberate one does make a difference. It explains why he didn't affect those around him the way the locket later did. As for the blood of the enemy thing, I think even Voldemort hinted that someone else's blood might have completed the ritual, he just believed Harry's blood would give him the protection he wanted. One foreshadowing example you missed was Wormtail's death, hinted at all the way back in book four when Voldemort creates his silver hand. He delivers the line "May your loyalty never waver again, Wormtail." Then in DH when Wormtail seems on the point of letting Harry go, the hand turns on him and chokes him to death.
The Horcruxes and Occlumency I reckon to be more revisionism by Rowling. She never could have expected the books or movies to take off so she was just playing around with ambiguous concepts of telepathy and possession and then gave them and unique labels once she got to book 4-ish. It also explains why she went for werewolves instead of vampires for Lupin as it gave her more flexibility in future books.
I have long felt that both Petunia and Snape were let off easy at the end of the stories, (esp with the deleted scene where Petunia telling Harry she had lost a sister)... If either or both Snape and Petunia had truly loved Lilly they would not have treated her son (despite what they felt about James) anywhere as badly as they each did. Having Snape being a double spy doesn't clear him of his behavior towards Harry, he may have been brave but he was still a terrible person, and it wasn't just to Harry~ a teacher who winds up being a student's greatest fear, as with Neville, just shouldn't be allowed. Harry should never have named his son for him.
Yeah and even if they genuinly loved lily, that still would not excuse the abuse, in the slightest, a character can be relatable or sympathetic in one point, but still be terrible people overall. Its even quite common for parents and partners to love the child/partner they abuse . . . Does not make it any better Snapes love for lily does not change he is a pretty amoral ahole who delighted in cruelty towords kids passing along abuse he suffered from as a kid
In all honesty, I think they were originally very black & white one note boring characters who were just bad and mean, the first two books are very basic & made for children, it was just aunt bad, teacher bad, later on they needed character development and idk just didn’t pay off great, especially in the movies
56:09 Foreshadowing is just planting seeds for something that pays off later on. Nothing about it implies that it needs to be able to be guessed by the reader ahead of time.
I currently read the books to my son and I keep finding little details. We read the part with Filch mentioning Peeves breaking the vanishing cabinet just yesterday. So Fred and George are kinda responsible for Dumbledore's death :/
18:31 Or, much more likely, he was talking about Mad-Eye Moody, who was actually Barty Crouch Jr. and Harry trusted as a friend too. You know, the one who actually did stab Harry in the back instead of Ron, who just had two fights with Harry along with brief falling outs like human friends often do. Backstabbing friends don't apologize and come back.
@VaultLore That's okay. I just don't like it when people go after Ron for simply being human. And you could make the argument the other way, too. But just to a lesser extent. Then again, that's the thing about divination. It never has one concrete meaning. It depends upon the interpreter. Which is why Hermione is so quick to dismiss its legitimacy as a magical art. Along with the fact she's not good at it, LOL.
@VaultLore Please let the new tv series do book Ron justice. Put him back at the level of the rest of the trio. Because he embodies love. That's all I ask! He deserves it!
12:10 what you mean shot in the dark isn't it the main feature of the dumbledore fork of snape / lilly protection if theres harry's blood around him these protected , better than horcruxes , if voldy has his blood attached to earth he's doing what the dursleys being doing since ever
One curious thing in regards to the room of requirement is a line the PC game of Philosopher's Stone, right at the start. Dumbledore greets Harry (aka the player) and tells him that Hogwarts is full of secrets. He then goes on to recount a story of finding a room full of Chocolate Frogs which later turned into a room full of firecrabs. And I realized later that that line sounds very similar to the line used in Goblet of Fire, so I'm wondering if the game developers were referencing it (was book 4 already out at the time?) or if someone close to Rowing, or even Rowling herself, wrote it for the game. The latter seems a bit odd as there is no known record of Rowling being involved in the games. But it is a curious one.
Here's another "Ron foreshadowing" moment: after he and Harry look at Harry's tea leaves, taking his own dream journal/predictions but *applying* them to Harry foreshadows the 3 tasks (here the "friend" is BCJ)
See, Ron is so logical. He can actually break the 4th wall in his foreshadowing! LOL! 😂 Also wanted to mention Harry was pretty good at reading Ron, too. "So you are gonna suffer, but be happy." When he saw the sideways cross for Ron. Meaning losing Fred along with the Hortacrux stuff, but getting to be with Hermione and having a family of his own in the end. It's all about perspective.
If we are to assume that the idea of a horcrux was there from the start, Voldemort being flippant with its use is understandable, it is a ridiculously hard to destroy item and Voldemort was always over confident, so he had no real fear of harry a student figuring out what it is, or if he did why would Voldemort assume he could get access to one of the few things that can damage it
I don't get Voldemort cursed the ring and kill whoever puts it on, but he didn't do the same with the locket to protect the horcrux with good measure. Then he would have eliminated the trio wandering around in the woods hiding while they look for more horcruxes and a way to figure out how to destroy them, or at least Hermione and Ron Harry would have been immune since he had one in him already. Also should have cursed the cup of Hufflepuff whoever tries to take it dies.
I remember reading the first book in the 4th grade and then the movie was coming out that next school year and it was this big thing cause I had gotten into the books… she only had the first 4 books out at the time, right? And she released books 5-7 after the movies were already in production. I think because of this I always assumed the ending wasn’t planned from the beginning. Like.. it wasn’t a state secret or anything at the time?
I really appreciate the effort you put into these videos. From your narration, to presentation style, to editing, it's so well done, and never over the top. In regards to the bit about the boggart and how powerful a Voldemort version of it would be, I rather wondered what form it would take. Would it just turn into the two-faced Quirrell? Or maybe just the shadowy-cloaked form we see in the Forbidden Forest in the Philosophers stone? I also figured that, seeing as how feared Voldemort was to the general wizarding world, I thought for sure it would be the #1 fear of many of the children. But that begs another question- would the boggart only be able to turn into something you've physically seen? Boggarts are such a cool part of the lore for me, and I love the idea that Moody is (possibly) the only person who can see the "natural" form of a boggart, as his magical eye allows him to see through solid objects.
To answer your question about planning ahead: I read somewhere that Rowling had at least a version of the ending planned when she began on the first book. Though obviously who was in the ending and who wasn't changed throughout the series, but the basics were there, so it's possible that the horcruxes were already a thing.
The foe glass foreshadowing is one I never even considered until you brought it up. That's crazy. Even through my re reads I always just attributed it to the fact that Barty is the main viliian of that book so of course Snape and the others would be in the foe glass since they are the good guys for that book.
I think you give the centaurs not enough credit. They could have predicted the penultimate battle between Harry and Voldemort, which led to Voldemorts downfall and happened in the forest. In the first book Harry and Voldemort were both in the forest and Voldemort was about to attack and kill Harry. If we assume, that prophecies aren't crystal clear descriptions of the things that will happen in the future, but could be interpreted in various ways, they could mistake the book 7 situation with the one in book 1.
Also Snape could be an opportunist with our knowledge of the first 4 books. He could have sided with Dumbledore just because Voldemort was gone. And maybe he didn't want to risk his life until he knew that Voldemort was back and could win against Dumbledore. Even later, him spying for both sides could also mean that he can flip to the winning side at the right moment. Only his connection to Lily assures us that he can not flip back.
page 394 referencing something specific in the book would be very difficult to pull off as some editions of the book have more or less pages than others. in my copy of Prisoner of Azkaban, page 394 begins partway through Sirius explaining how he managed not to go insane while he was in Azkaban.
I love me some good foreshadowing, i rewatch the 100 tv show alot lolol and there always seems to be something new some little thing i think ive almost seen em all now hut it does a really good job foreshadowing across all seasons
21:50 this is a plot hole, not foreshadowing. Just a chapter or two later harry says Voldemort while at Grimmauld place and nothing happens as a result
Could be wrong, but I thought the fetus thing was Voldemort prime’s soul? As in, Voldemort prime and Harry were both in kings cross, but prime’s soul was so mangled that he appeared as a gross fetus
I dont remember if this is headcanon or foreshadowing. But in book 1 the classroom that harry stumbles on to find the mirror of erised. When trying to find it again im almost certain follows how you get into the room of requirement
One point to make is that Rowling has said that she had plotted out the books for around 7 years before the first one was even published, and she’d already wrote the last chapter of the final book before completing the first book. With all that being said, it wouldn’t be silly to assume that this was all intentional foreshadowing which just highlights her genius even further.
Plot and story beats are not the same and if you look at the last chapter it is: Ron and Hermione go through a romance in the series. Harry respects Dumbledore and Snape exactly the same. Harry and Malfoy are on good terms. Harry isn’t as anti slytherin. Harry solves the issue of his Scar Pain. He learns about his parents. Harry and Ginny are married (legitimately the first wizard girl he sees iirc). He has full immersion into the wizarding world. There is other orphans after a war like he was: But ultimately All is well. That’s super easy to draft after book 1 and is the plot of the book series.
Newer viewer here - love the videos but you put an INCESSANT amount of ads in EVERY video. Two unskippable ads in a row every 4 minutes. Please reduce the number of ads as it does detract from the viewing experience and turns me off of watching your videos for the sole reason that I must stop whatever I’m doing to go over to my phone to skip/watch the ads (if there is no skip) and wait. If you have 30 seconds of ads every four minutes in an hour long video, that amounts to an additional 7 and a half minutes of runtime OF JUST ADS! Please take this into consideration, thank you for your content.
I appreciate you watching. I think this will always be a talking point, but RU-vid determines how many ads you see based on your viewing habits. I monetize the content, but I need to balance the amount of time creating that content with valuing my own time. I understand if that puts you off, but I will keep advocating for myself and that’s ultimately what affords me the free time to create more content. Thanks again for watching, I appreciate you and the feedback!
@@VaultLore Ah, I see. I was not aware that it was RU-vid that determines that. And of course, I am always for the creator’s earnings as without that incentive there would be no high quality content such as yours. Apologies for the misunderstanding, and you have earned a loyal subscriber for your kind reply. Have a good day!
