There is far too little attention paid to the pre-civil war Indian conflicts, I had never heard of this incident before despite its obvious seriousness. Well done Walrus.
@mike saunders the US wars with the indians (plains indians) was over 60 years long with the civil war in the middle. Not to mention the colonial indians befor that.
@@davidammons1700 while that is true, such things were ingrained into all Indian cultures as a rule, while the more evil among the whites relished in it, it was not a socially accepted practice ... though it would be adopted in wartime as retribution even against the innocent. Indian culture is not compatable with white culture... example, most tribes practiced some forms of canableism, has never been accepted in white culture unless you work for Kraft or the abortionists.
This guy is one of my favorite historians. The paintings he uses, his objective approach, these videos are priceless. They should be archived in the Library of Congress. Keep up the good work! 👍
Thank you for sharing. My great great (great) Grandfather and Granduncle both traded along these route as a Cherokee / Delaware Indian tribe trader. His son became chief around the turn of the century. Their is still much I am studying, learning and trying to retrace their trails, routes and common camping site along the way. I had thought they had went straight to the Royal Highway at Sant Fe NM from eastern Oklahoma but this gives another route that is close enough to consider. This helps a bit so thank you very much. I sub'ed & liked.
Often overlooked in the telling of the stories between Indians and Europeans is the nearly absolute reluctance of the Indians to give up “the culture of the raid.” The horse only made it worse. This conflict occurred elsewhere in the world between settled people and nomads.
Thank you! May I also recommend other channels... Legends of the Old West Legends of the West Jeffrey the Librarian History & More Native American History Townsends They do much better work with American history than I can. Cheers from Dixie!
@@ge2623 maybe because it would be inconvenient to the democratic party, who are the party of slavery and Indian removal. Look into The Big Lie By Dinesh D'Souza
@@ge2623 bo wyszło by na to że bialy chrześcijanin czyli wasi przodkowie to mordercy , gwałciciele, oglupiali na punkcie złota oraz ziemi ale tylko na własność.
Think about it what would you do if somebody intentionally murdered your family with a disease and saying they didn't do it on purpose lying Europeans thought the Mexicans everything
The ubiquitous use and abuse of slaves by American Indians is rarely noted in comparison to the Black Slave trade and yet is no less despicable. Reparations?
The systematic rape torture and murder of men women and children (either white settlers or members of another tribe) is rarely noted in comparison to your average serial killers deeds.
A nit-picking observation; the picture of Messervy shows a revolver in his waist line. Voice over says, "...1854..." but that isn't a .36 Colt revolver. It's a Colt 1873 Model P revolver.
You are mistaken! The head waters of the Rio Grande, are on the Eastern side of the San Juan Mtns. That's what the continental divide is all about. The rivers on the Western Slope of Colorado, eventually flow into the Colorado River. Not so with the Rio Grande.
@@nun_bel_eever no such thing an non provoked as you look into history Those democrats were as hostile to Indians as they are blacks and whites who love freedom
Reading many county record accounts from midwest to west, a very common tactic of many Native American tribes/nations was to be-friend, be invited to have dinner (given hospitality), then slaughter their adult and teen victims and then enslave the beautiful women along with young girls and boys. Resulting in retribution by other settlers in a most horrific way and equally shameful. War is hell no matter where fought.
The native indians out west always had a feud with the Mexicans. Before the settlers moved west they the Indian often raided south into Mexico, especially the Apache, and the Utes.
What people dont realize is except for pagans and catholics, christmas was not celebrated, and was illegal in sone parts. It was the 1820s when alabama was the first state to legalize christmas (heavy catholic influence)
Many people are unaware of truthful history.Many Americans are functional illiterate on the real history of America and the world. The arrogant and ignorant behavior of some is noted daily. A concern Veteran 🇺🇸
@elainegoad9777 the solstace moves... use stellarium and you can go back and find it use to be on the 25... but back then there was no gregirian calendar so even that does not apply
The opening painting shows the bearded man holding a Winchester lever action rifle. This gun was not invented and available for years yet. Anachronism.
@@Momusinterra Yes, only original digital jpg images recovered from Native American entombments should be thusly referenced. It is, you see, common knowledge among archaeologists that said natives were always interred with their mobile phones so they could, if they so chose, call their bookies from The Happy Hunting Grounds. BWAAAAHAHAHAHA, etc.
Hate to be picky, but I noticed the rifle carried by the guy in the picture appears to be a Henry with a handle for the barrel. This was not available until post Civil War.
i do not understand how a walrus can be camping on the mainland teaching us about mexican and native history while lecturing us on keeping the powder dry
Your content is fantastic and your delivery is excellent. It's very educational, but could you PEASE avoid using those racial/ethnic slurs outside of directly quoting historical writings? It is poor scholarship at the very least, and I don't believe you mean some of those words in the ugly connotations they actually carry.
I have traveled through UTE territory recently-mostly desert -The UTE casino seems to be busy and i suppose the UTE s when not drunk are getting along fine-they have no purpose and being subsidized by the gov and casino have no future other than a few who escape the lure of drunkenness and slumber
It is sad what the Reservation system incentivizes. One day I would like to do a video (a very long one) on the history of the USA's Indian policy, starting with Washington and most notably Jefferson and ending with the reservations created in the New Deal. I've always been partial to Henry Dawes' sentiment that the American Indian will never be truly free until they hold the deed to their own land. Property rights and private ownership as an alternative to the collectivist identity of a tribe.
Its not just the first people its all human nature. Anyone in similar circumstances would end up virtually the same. Inner city and rural welfare and housing recipients have similar outcomes. It takes people with strong teaching from parents or grandparents, good examples and id definitely say people who apply their lives to the teaching of the old testament and words of Christ (at least in principle) predominantly escape that condition because it teaches a focus on strong work ethic, education and duty to God and others.
Bwahahahaha 😂 Sounds pretty myopic and ferociously narrow-minded. Let me get this right, You traveled through Ute territory and you observed a lot of drunk fucks. Now it's " I *suppose* the UTE s when not drunk are getting along fine-they have no purpose and being subsidized by the govt and casino have no future other than a few who escaped the law of drunkenness and slumber" It took a few seconds longer to realize what in the actual fuck you're talking about since you don't use punctuation. LMFAO how many reservations or indigenous territory have you actually visited? A couple? Did you watch some documentaries on youtube? And everybody knows about the Lakota pine ridge reservation. Yet because of this, they think that all reservations and territories and a whole race of people are all the same. There are an incredible score of moving parts to the stories and I find it preposterously humorous the way people become opinionated on things they don't fully comprehend. "So sad, DERP🥴" Hahaha the way you guys talk is legitimately funny. *sigh* thanks for the chuckle
I've never heard Custers' attack of Black Kettle at Washita referred to as a Massacre , but an attack by native inhabitants were frequently called that.
@@doorusthewalrus6903 hope you clearly tell the cause of each 'attack' I hated Custer till I started looking into him. He fought fiercely to rescue a white woman of Kansas who had been kidnapped by Indians. Custer rescued her. Sadly not soon enough, she returned with a son by an Indian, towns people rejected her despite knowing she'd been kidnapped and held a slave
Do you love the way the Europeans stole the America do you know what they had to do to get this country lotta murdering raping, introducing smallpox and many other diseases then they started hanging Black people selling them and then murdering the Mexicans and Chinese learn some history
Jicarilla were Apache they were hunters not farmers. So to place them in an area and told to grow crops was an insult . Massacres by Native American were rare at first ….. but with issues like Sand Creek showed Native American that negotiations with the snake tongue whites was pointless .
ACTUALLY, when killing is done in defense of innocent people, it's not murder. These Shoshone had been murdering emigrants traveling through the land to reach California. They had finally murdered enough Mormons, that Brigham Young was going to have them taken care of if the Federal government didn't. The Shoshone set up defensive breastworks, KNOWING that there was a battle coming. Their chief, refused to surrender to an arrest warrant in his name, though he was given the opportunity. He chose to fight and his people fought with him, thinking they had superior numbers. But Conner had been well planned in hiding his actual numbers. The Shoshone we're tricked in battle, and a well earned elimination of their renegade tribe was completed. This preliminary thinning of the Shoshone herd saved the lives of countless good and civilized people in exchange for the loss of lives of organized and deadly thieves, rapists, and warriors going under the name "Shoshone"
@Jethro Neemo That battle as you call it wasn't a battle, it was a Massacure, the US Army had gattlung guns, while the Shoshone, mean women and children were low on ammunition. When the Shoshone realized they were going to lose they gave up, and rode at the soldiers lines. The Army just fired with their guns until none were left to fire at. That isn't a battle, nor was it honorable. As for the Shoshone, they were freedom fighters fighting for the future of the people, as well the survival of all that was Shoshone. You can not make up, or say enough to justify what happened. Not how those atrocities are continuing to play out today.
@Captain Fanta it's my understanding that the military was using cannons. Colonel Conner was a cold blooded killer. The Mormons wanted the land, so they pushed the military into attacking.
@Jetho Neemo What would you do if you saw people stealing your land and slaughtering your food? The motivation behind the massacre was to complete the theft of the Indians land and to murder as many as possible so they wouldn't have to deal with them.
"...alcohol, smallpox, kill off the herds of buffalo their culture depended on, introduce a Religion while simultaneously betraying half of its' Commandments and use it as justification for the broken treaties."
The American Indian were some of the finest lite cavalry the world has ever seen the saying was they were born on horseback and most were natural marksmen it was the numbers of the white men that made the out come inevitably
Not really. They had no concept of strategy or how to fight a long term war. They were reavers and raiders. Take out a couple of their war leaders and it was "he who fights and runs away...." That's why 28 bison hunter's held off 700 Comanchees (who were indeed great horsemen) at the 2nd Battle of Adobe Walls. As a book I read on the Comanchees put it... they did not have the cold blooded European calculus that would enable then to sustain heavy losses to secure a strategically advantageous position"
I'm a native American (I was BORN here -- that's what the word "native" means), and I know the term "squaw" is NOT offensive. In the Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary, copyrighted 1969 by Merriam-Webster (at a time when they took the science of lexicography seriously and were not politicizing their publications), it says: "an American Indian woman". It gives for an etymology that it was an Algonquian term meaning "woman". Nope, nothing like "'ho's" at all. If anything, the term "squaw' reminds people that indigenous women were the veritable property of their men. A squaw emphasizes that a woman was "somebody's woman" -- "somebody's squaw". That's the connotation of the term. But that was the reality. (It still wouldn't imply that they were prostitutes though.) Why should we erase inconvenient facts? Because the truth offends?
@@MrJm323 Trust me . . . don't call Native American women a squaw. We're Eastern Creeks. My sister is a robotics engineer and I was architect of the Oklahoma's Trail of Tears Memorial. My sister would probably put you on the next NASA rocket headed to Pluto. LOL
@@peopleofonefire9643 "My sister is...." If she is anything more than a mother and drawer of water and firewood collector and cook for her "man", then it is because the "white man" brought the 18th century Enlightenment to your people. Not LOL.
On occasion, yes. Definitely more often than we are taught. It's also important not to generalize too much on either side when it comes to disparaging monikers .
Natives traditionally did not lie. And those that did were left without a nose, or an ear or tongue. Lying was taught to us by the people who came from across the Atlantic ocean.
Thank goodness the savage indigenes were totally defeated. Because of that our property rights (and our very lives, indeed) were made secure. Any indigenous person reading these words -- which requires electricity and sophisticated electronic and digital technology -- should be thankful for that historical fact.
It's so sad that the Indians where lied to by the Mexican and white men remember they where fighting for there freedom for its was the Indians homeland first and its sad that all couldn't live peaceful
@Partty Setzer Primary sources are filled with examples of how most tribes weren't above lying to get ahead themselves. Stealing property was practically a past time for most Indian youths. The prevailing philosophy being: if you're not strong enough to hold it, you don't deserve to own it.
Goes to say All Govornors in New Mexico have and still do remain the same . Nothing in them ever changes and the Indian is supposed to be satisfied. AS THE WAY IT IS. DECENDENTS OF THE TRIBES IN MODERN TIMES SAY NO WE DONT EXCEPT THEIR WORDS.For their words have different meaning of truth which never existed in them. A indian descendent of the worst of the worst and proud of it .A heathen savage they call us then and now in their films today to boost has been actors. A savage they think a savage they get the word is different to us as is the meaning. HISTORY GETS JUSTICE
I stated this elsewhere on my channel, but I've never come across a primary or secondary source (outside of the odd 2010s grad student paper) that states "squaw" as meaning...errr, the oldest profession. This seems to be a modern, linguistic interpretation. Given the rampant distortion of American frontier history by current academics, I choose to stick with the tried and true terms. That being said, if you know something I don't, please share so we all may learn.
@@nun_bel_eever I'm doing...trying to do a series on the Sioux Indian Wars. I finished a video in the Fall about Sand Creek. The ol' "what about..." fallacy is a rhetorical slight of hand. Yes, massacres occurred on BOTH sides of most conflicts (especially frontier wars). Neither side is excluded from atrocities. I picked this topic because I was researching events occurring around Christmas in the West. It's an overlooked event and is pretty dramatic. No judgements, just history. Merry Christmas! :)
@@doorusthewalrus6903 *A white Christmas conscience assuagement. But best of the land to you...* *Not a trace of 'whatism' in my comments. Just straight to the conscience questions...* *Still unassailable I see...*
Let's face it if you come on to my property and bring all your belongings and you refuse to leave your belongings belong to me what's the problem with that
