Just to again mention the tuning, it should not be behind a grind as I think it's an essential part of motor racing that dates back to Geoff Crammonds F1 on the Amiga, you can't expect to race different circuits with the same car without changing the setup, thats just ludicrous especially when you car is getting more powerful after each race which only makes tuning even more essential. Sure lets grind the parts but not the damn tuning, I had cars so unstable under braking they were no fun to drive but I needed the power to keep up with my rivals, it just sucks that I could not tune the car into the circuit like you can in pretty much every other game.
If they'd just made it realistic, and allowed you to tune the parts that you can tune in real life, that would have been good. Also, you should be able to swap out your parts to put on other compatible cars.
Gran Turismo 7 was an insane grind too. But Polyphony came to their sense after critisism, hopefully Turn 10 do the same. Glad to hear the gameplay is fun though.
it is insane, who the hell thought this would be a fun thing to do? it is such a shame because the driving physics and the engine sounds are so damn incredible. feeling very ambivalent about the game in general.
Mack could it be that the thermal paste in your 2080 is getting old ? my 2080ti is running this game just fine ? :P but i just got my pc back from maintenance and the message / pictures where obvious ...... my thermal stickers / paste where garbage xD
I think Microsoft is specifically making their games more grindy because they offer them as a subscription in their Game Pass. The longer you play those games the longer you keep your subscription.
It should have the upgrade system used in forza motorsport 2 where you can purchase or sell parts like you'd expect to, but also earn loyalty discounts for upgrades from the manufacturer when you level up your car, which are also then available for all cars made by that particular brand.
racing lines in todays age is the equivalent of painting an enemy red with a sign above their head saying "shoot me". Amazing how we havent progressed past this part
Nothing at all wrong with using the racing line if you don't know the circuit, I mean you do it, everyone does it, it's actually how you learn the circuit so stop pretending it's frowned upon when it's actually an essential tool in learning the circuits. Check out my racing playlist and you will see it's turned off on every circuit I know.
@@WorthABuyreviews well I was kinda joking with that. i have used racing line myself when driving circuit like COTA where the apex is hard to see due to wide track and tight turns. Tho i usually learn my tracks without lines just by going slow first and then picking up pace as I feel.
I think the switch to a stricter payoff is a godsend. Forza games lately reward you too much for almost doing nothing. So long as the grind isn’t designed to make you spend real money on Xp boosts I’m ok with.
There are no XP boosts thankfully, but there is a money boost if you buy the Premium Edition. That only helps with buying new cars though, not the XP part of it. I like earning my upgrades from racing as it means you spend more time in 1 car, thus becoming very familiar with how that car handles.
Yes but it's equally stupid that say, the analogy would be like lewis Hamilton must grind and win the gokart Sunday race just to upgrade his new gokart that he bought after he became a world champion in F1. That's just insanity in the opposite direction.
yip, it is better. A d I remember Mack moaning about getting cars thrown at you for no reason. Building yoyr car and staying with the same car for ages is great fir me, as its something I never really do in driving games. I'm always fleeting about cars and I end up bored. this has kept me invested.
Setting damping/rebound or how stiff the car is shouldn't be locked at the start. A coilover set isn't that expensive, i would guess if you were to actually race your car you would start off with those.
I for one love the so called grind. Its fun to start with nothing and build every car up from scratch. Also the grafix is AMAZING, if you put it all to the max . I race on a ultrawide oled in 1440p with everything maxed out at 100+ FPS.And it loooks crazy with HDR.
Forza already surpassed GT after GT3. GT7 looks nicer for sure, but the physics in that game are WAY off, and I've got about 65 hours in GT7 now. This new Forza Motorsport I've only just started playing and while graphically it doesn't look as good imo, the physics are far superior. This is as close to sim racing that a simcade game has ever got.
Mack complains about shooters having x-ray vision, but he uses the racing lines which is the racing game equivalent. Unrealistic visual representation of how to make the game easier. Frankly, I am ashamed. 😂
Not equivalent. You dont use xray vision to learn how to shoot but you use racing lines to learn when to break and when to go wide or tight etc. Plus the gane wasnt built around you having them.
@@Philpot1992 I think the point is it makes thigs very easy. X-ray vision shows all the enemies, racing line shows where to brake, turn and accelerate. One of the skill with driving games is learning all this yourself. The whole "I don't know the track" isn't a valid argument either. Everyone started at that point the first time they drove any track. Its like all the F1 gamers saying they use no assists but use T-cam which is the biggest assist in the game.
@TypeRTeg i get what you are saying but i dont think it is like xray vision. X ray vision wouldn't be bad either if it was optional in ganes and not part of the design and balancing. The racing lines are like stabilisers when you learn how to ride a bike. When people use stabilisers they know that Roding a bike without them is different but it's the forst step. In game the lines allow people who don't drive and know nothing about cars to learn how it works and it can be totally ignored and never turned on by edge lords who are offended by it. For everyone else, they can literally just have the choice.
@@Philpot1992 I doubt the OP thinks its like X-ray vision either 🤦♂ Mack always says X-ray vision makes games to easy. I myself never use the feature even if available in games. Its still a choice like racing line is. Making a game easier by holding your hand with a assist, is what Mack normally hates. Its clear to see we wont agree but for me, racing line is no better than activating the button to get X-ray vision. Obviously they function different but are still holding your hand. Even without knowing a track, a average driver could drive around it without a racing line. Not only all that but the OP was clearly making a joke in a sense. I guess the people who might be upset are the ones who use the racing line or bonnet cam themselves?
Conversely if you buy a new car and the upgrades you had on your previous car roll over to your new car - I'd have a problem with that as well A) because it's not very realistic and B) because it would make it a bit too easy.
If anyone is having performance issues change Dynamic Render Quality to medium or low, then restart game. What it fails to tell you is anything above medium is 4k or higher, which tanks the frame rate.
@@apk4381 The game uses a lot of memory. Hence Mack and his ancient 2080 with 8GB of memory struggles. At 4K this game uses 16.5GB. Serves people right for continuing to buy Nvidia, who gimp VRAM every generation so people have to prematurely buy a new one.
Just had a 4 hour online session and was brilliant,not so bothered about the career. I agree with a wheel it's great,and the majority of races I've had online have been clean and very competitive,I'm on series X and it runs great 4k60fps, definitely worth playing online with a wheel, controller is bit shit though in my opinion.
I played this for 3 or 4 hours last night as I always loved Gran Turismo, buying a cheap car and upgrading/tuning it until you waffle stomp the class. So far GT did it way better and it was much more fun.
imo it should be like the old Gran Turismo games, you race and earn money and then can use that money on any car or car parts you like. I liked being able to race my tuned and modified car to get upgrades for a secondary project car
Too much grind for me to enjoy the multiplayer. It was fun for the qualifier series where everyone's car is equal but after that, when there's people with full upgraded vehicles and you're down 4-8 seconds a lap, not so much. Plus, there are a few bugs like the camera being locked to spectator mode at the start of the race, so I lost 20-30 minutes and received a DNF because the camera bugged out. However, the safety and driving rating seems pretty fair and most of the races I have enjoyed (aside from turn 1 at Spa). If they removed the grind for the performance upgrades and allowed everyone to pick and choose and create their own tune, this game would be great fun.
The grind is honestly not too severe and most important parts (tuning and changing tyre type) are unlocked reasonably early, just in time that you’ve familiarized yourself with the car enough and want to step it up. Or maybe I’m just too chill and not in a rush lol What they should really do is let us fine-tune cockpit cam. In my rig the monitor is relatively high up, so the wheel is not aligned with in game one as a result.
I'm actually looking forward to the tuner experience and building up my cars. Driving a slow car fast is the most fun anyways. I'm a bit sick of the usual style of buying 100s of cars and racing them once each, GT7 pushed this to a new level and tried to make me pay real money for the crap. Pushed my past the limit and I was glad to hear the approach they are taking with Forza this time.
Play Free Play/Race, choose some GT3/Hypercars and set the game options to advanced and set the format to Timer. Set it for 10-15 minutes, variable weather and about 6-8 difficulty and a random grid. Epic stuff. You will probably have to pit and so will the ai, its a battle to get up the rankings before the timing expires.
Behind the wheel, behind the wheel, yet you have the brake markers on! My mistake they are on the the ring road in Northampton oh and the left hand bend at my local Nisa store!
Got used to career.. Its more like an arcade mode.. Just keep playing through the events and you'll have loads of partially upgraded cars to free play with and upgrade further.. Don't mind as I'll level up the cars i enjoy racing and not touch loads of others ala any forza I've played. Handling great with minor adjustments to controller settings..recalibrated monitor hdr and wow.. Its great on xsx.. Ai brakes at odd times sometimes ✌️9/10
You can just go to test drive mode mode and level your car up before racing in career mode. I usually race until hit level 20, also if you want more CPX choose a course with a longer split sector and plenty of turns. I prefer Spa but Nurbring will do the trick.
The grind has always been a staple in the all the old Forza motorsports if I remember. The tuning being locked seems odd to me. If its all to act as an incentive to buy the game pass, or worse, introduce a cash shop to speed up the grind then I don't want to play it then. But you never said 'cash shop' mack, so I may pick it up. Ty for the informative review again!
Just a note. The most expensive version of the game does give you 2x the points per race to lessen the grind. I'm not a fan of this kind of marketing, personally.
The part about the grind: it's not even. Car XP is bound to your section performance. The lower the class, the slower the car, the more time it takes to clear sectors, the longer it takes to level the car in total. In career, I found that especially annoying as you play most of the time in classes E to B and you hardly ever get to the class limit in a given series. Times are gone when you simply picked your favourite car and pumped it to a class you liked just using a knowledgeable tuner's setup. Collecting hundreds of cars is kinda more stupid now then before, as you'll end up with hundreds of snails in your garage. Beautiful but pointless if you don't grind them up.
You don't have to grind, just turn on the spastic assists and the car drives on its own and levels up. Yes the best way to play this game is to not play it.
Not being able to do even basic suspension tuning from the get go might be realistic depending on what car you're buying. On most cars, even sportier ones, the suspension components will not be adjustable and you have to buy aftermarket parts to be able to modify the handling.
Couldn't agree more. I'm loving the actual driving. It's a blast. But remember when in the first handful of mainline releases, you could chip away at a massive wall of circuits and build a car for each one and tune it as you go to have an absolute blast? I loved taking a lower rated car and tuning it progressively for more and more challenging circuits to make things really fun and memorable. Here you have limited circuits and a very limited selection of cars for each one. And after youve trudged through all the forced tutorializations, many unskippable, you can only do a few at most of the circuits that are listed, as most have prerequisites for no good reason. And you have to stick to one of the few available vehicles for them, whether you like the car or not, to progress. It might, maybe, force you to appreciate a car more, but it's just not as fun. I like that they've emphasized customized difficulty for more reward again, but that's not new, and its much more limited here. And for what? It feels like they're trying to stretch things out as much as possible to prolong a player base and reach a broader audience, but damn, it's a big letdown to what made me spend so many damn hours in the first 4 games.
I used to love taking something basic like a first gen Miata and cranking up the difficulty to earn more money. You could start an easy circuit, then modify the car and start a more challenging circuit. Tuning it each time to focus on power or handling/stability as needed, as far as I could go until it became ludicrous. And there were so many possibilities for variations between cars and circuits like this.
I like how driving from inside the car looks, but I get serious motion sickness from it (weird, I know... I even tried adjusting field of view on games that allow it and while it helps a bit, it's still not a comfortable experience). So, easy mode for me. :/
I actually really like that you have to start from scratch with each car. It makes you get to know the car’s characteristics, instead of just slapping every mod on immediately so they all feel the same.
What they should have done is the same levelling system, but you get to allocate your points (kinda like a Bethesda game) to whatever you want. Or, the levelling system only applies to which cars you can buy, and the upgrades for the cars are just in game money so you can buy what you feel you need to win races and drive better.
Given how long was the last game, and this one doesn't revolutionize the graphics or add a lot new content, weird after 6 or 7 years we end with a buggy launch, what exactly they were doing for 6 or 7 years!!!!
I been playing cockpit view or front Bumper view since Gran Turismo 2.. GT2 was fun times i would play for hours after highschool. M6 big bro set record lap times . I worked my way to beat him. I gave up on auto transmission i needed to control the power band😆😆😆😆 so many good memories
1:50 - ever since I started racing from the cockpit view (I actually like the bumper view best) I find racing with the elevated view to be almost impossible. You can’t properly judge corners from up there.
I agree 100%, Daymaker. Whenever I can I go 1st person steering, best if in the driver's seat and not on the hood or bumper view. Good on ya m8! No wheel? Ain't real!
Am I just imagining things or are devs optimizing games for the latest consoles (3 year old hardware) while at the same time optimizing games for the latest PC's (last months hardware). In 2020 my PC was more powerful than the PS5 and Series X... but now my exact same PC is a calculator compared to the exact same consoles.
I don't think building the cars so individually is a huge issue. It is an immersive aspect. The problem is the balance, how long it takes to make each individual build. With 500 different cars, they really could have shortened up how long it takes to build each individual car out. I wouldn't be surprised if a later update significantly increases the rewards, that would let them maintain the highly individualized cars without making you have to wait so long before that car is built how you want.
Dont you worry, Mack, and ingame shop will soon appear after all reviews are out, and they will sell those points :D Would absolutely not surprise me at all.
I don't mind the parts points when it is applied to a model of car, and all models of that car. They should lock tuning though, if that part has that ability. If I can adjust that option in the normal car, or with that part, by picking up a wrench, it shouldn't be locked off in game. Hopefully they will adjust it to at least allow cross variations of the same model.
Mack how is the progression compared to Gran Turismo 4? That game absolutely nailed the carpg-genre mechanics with incentives to buy different cars for different race classes, tune up your beginner shitbox etc. Driving mechanics seem good on this Forza and I have been waiting for a new game to fill the void of GT4.
I appreciate you probably mentioned your core PC specs previously or elsewhere, but as an occasional viewer your performance impressions really need that context (At least GPU and maybe CPU RAM) easily to hand to be informative. If you don't want to mention them in the video every time, maybe they can be part of the description?
I have not played or tried the game yet, but I am familiar with the grind debacle, it is a problem, but fortunately a problem that can be solved with two simple fixes IMO: more XP and Car Points/level and the option to unlock WHATEVER upgrade you choose to, untied to the level. If anything, the level should unlock cosmetic stuff(prestige like, IDK, unique decals etc.) You should be able to unlock everything in about 6-7, maybe 10 races/per car. By that point, you'll have most of the parts you desire and still be in the process of fiddling with the tuning.
Hi Mack. I'm running a Ryzen 5 5600x, a 2080ti and 32gb Ram, installed on a 2tb M2 nvme drive on a 1440p monitor. I run in dlss quality mode and with ray traced car reflections on. Some settings off (like motion blur) and most others on high. Vsync on and target of 60fps set and it runs at a constant 60fps AND my gpu temps are high forties or low fifties, so it's not struggling at all. As far as the grind goes, that appeals to me as I like to grind in games anyway. My only problem is the save after upgrading a car, can sometimes end in an infinite loop and the only option is the press Alt + F4, reload and do your last race again :)
2 Problems I had with it 1- Complies Shaders every time I launch it (20+ Mins) It should only happen during ur 1st run or after a GPU update 2- Cockpit view is broken for me, becomes very weird over saturated and trees look just weird like some serious bug going on game itself is amazing, Car handling is superb 10/10
That compiler shader issue you mentioned has to be a bug as I've only ever seen a compiler shader run once, which was the first time I booted it up. There are a few bugs in the PC version at the moment that Turn 10 are investigating, such as poor CPU utilization, DLSS not working properly and the colours being washed out.
It has the racing lines that show if you re going too fast for the turn, which is the racing game version of x-ray vision. I am surprised that Mack has them turned on.
Unlocking car points by microtransactions, or just by playing the game? What other option is there? It's a driving sim. In Forza Horizon you entered races to earn credits to upgrade. What's the difference?
yay!!! finally you get one car and work on that car, im tried of racing games just throwing cars at me Heat does it, forza 4 and 5 do it the crew does it you end up with 1000 cars and cant decide which one to use theres no sense of progression
Of course the parts would stay with your vehicle, just as it would if you bought parts for a real car, they don’t fit the next one you buy. I like it, gives you a reason to win races, earn the money to upgrade or buy better cars, not have it handed to you.
I wouldn't mind cockpit view, but you can't see 100% of your mirrors? I don't know if that is a setting, but if you are in cockpit, being able to see the cars behind is essential.
Have you reviewed deep rock galactic? If not I think you’d love it, if so then you should revisit it as it’s had so much added to it. Also a return to No Mans Sky would be cool
@@XX-_-XX420 This would be funny if this was a Need For Speed review. It isn't. Forza Motorsport has literally nothing to do with Need For Speed, I mean your joke was so unfunny that only one other person replied.
@@acurisur lol I guess you haven't watched the review at all, why even bother if you don't know how the game works lmao, it's just dumb bro. So basically since you couldn't be bothered to know what you're talking about. You buy cars with your credits aka bank, then you need rep to upgrade it, and you get heat from the other drivers trying to beat you.
Actually Mac your right I never play racing games in first person view but I tried it after you recommended it , and it is so much better I feel like I’m right there in the action. Field of view is limited but it’s still much better , thanks 👍
I think the 'grind' is satisfying in itself but it could do with being shorter. If you actually care take full practice times and try to get a good time with your car in practice, it's fine. Yet not everyone has that mentality to them, wanting to learn the track and getting better times. For a player that just wants to from race to race, it's not gonna be pretty, you will end up underpowererd by the end of series. I'm not the best driver and I definitely and strongly benefit from practice time to do both better in race and then get more upgrades in as a cherry on the top. I can see though how that can get to feel grindy at some point.
The intensity of clean racing is awesome.but the time difference between wheels and joypads are dominate in every lobby. Hard to even get podiums with clean racing. Currently S safety and 1540 skill.
Many real life car races limit tuning options to tyre pressures and how much fuel you fill up with. Sounds like Mac wants F1 car tuning on club sport racing.
Mack, "easy mode" is also keeping the racing line on, just sayin' 😉 These games are always good fun on controller, but are absolutely not simulators. At the end of the day, I always stepped away from FM7 and went back to Assetto or RFactor. The driving just isn't as rewarding here - especially since there's a "gamification" of grind in Forza for the past few entries. Not a popular opinion for the less automotive-obsessed, but the driving and racing itself should be all you need to have a great time. The rest is just faff and wank for casuals.
Mack, I worked on racing games and I know some of the Forza devs. I need to correct you about something. The reason why people drive behind the car is that driving behind the wheel ISN'T realistic. You can't turn your head to have situational/spatial awareness. You also can't feel G-forces or losing traction. You need fake input to replace what isn't available, e.g. a follow camera. It'd be different with VR goggles and an active seat of some kind, but it's not fair to say that people are wimping out because they won't drive the way a person really drives. Nobody really drives with their head strapped to the headrest, unable to turn. Both choices are objectively wrong and you just have to choose which wrong feels less wrong to you. BTW, if you want to drive like a real driver, you don't leave the ideal driving line display turned on. 😜
Thanks u 100% agree, all these fakes racing from magic carpet view make me mad. Turn10 should have a way to know what type of controller and view you are using in rivals or multi player.
If I buy a muffler or engine piece for my Jag, it wouldn't work with my GMC Terrain so I don't have an issue with that system. I do see how it may get grindy though.
