Framing Lumber : Traditional vs. Engineered - This Old House Jobsite 

The engineered lumber may cost you double compared to SPF lumber, but the drywallers, finish carpenters, cabinet installers, tile guys will love you for the dead straight and flat surfaces they have to work with. Which will make that part of the job go quicker and maybe even cost less.

I wish I'd used LSL's for my door openings. I spent a lot of time fitting door jambs and trim to out of plumb studs.

Great Conversation! Warmed my heart to see you on the This Old House site!

Congrats at meeting the TOH crew! You were round my neck of the woods! Lots of older houses.

This is a great video. Lots of great information and seems very cutting edge!

Matt is having fun with the NEXT TIME ON THE BUILD SHOW ‼️

Mr Risinger, I love the video I’m always interested in framing. I’d like very much if you did a video in the future about the old way of sheeting with shiplap vs today’s methods pros and cons.

Aw, you should've done the TOH signoff - "I'm Matt Risinger..." "And I'm Jeff Sweenor..." "For The Build Show."

Very informative as usual 👍

What a cool episode, love ToH!

Great Video 👍👍👊👊

I'm in the commercial sector and there are a whole lot of metal studs used in structural building. They use a higher gauge stud than a non supporting wall uses. Most commercial buildings are held up by steel columns and beams with corrugated metal decking and 4 to 5" of concrete poured on it for the floors, or pretensioned precast concrete with a 2 or 3" cap pour. But smaller buildings such as a bank branch and even landings on staircases in larger buildings use lots of heavy gauge steel studs and they're super strong. Interior walls use the thin gauge stuff and rely on strong 5/8" high impact drywall for added strength since the studs are usually only screwed on one side of the track and twist around easily.

great channel, great build. 30yo 2yr app carpenter in australia, and despite all our terminology being different i find your channel and exposure of international technologies a REAL ASSET and very entertaining. cheers matt & geoff

Years back on an episode of TOH, they featured an engineered product for studs, which were basically a 2x6 or 2x8 stud, but made similar to an I-Joist, with a web made of OSB, and finger-jointed flanges out of (I think) 2x3. . I haven't been able to find any manufacturer that currently makes this. Similar to an I-Joist for a floor joist, they had knockouts for wiring etc, and were very stable.

This year I tried using LSL studs on cabinet walls. They are really dense and do not take fasteners well. I even tried to nail 16 cc sinkers and they didn’t want to drive in with a titanium hammer.

I LOVE TOH! Wish I had been there!

It’s the same price in New Zealand so I only use timber for deck framing or anything else exposed to water.

There is a such thing as structural metal studs. I had 16 gauge used on a project I did. You can have the manufacturer engineer them for whatever your needs are.

Awesome!

If you like framing with lsl studs you will really love framing the lvl studs i swapped over a year ago

Great vid - curious how that post in the middle of the span was attached to the beam above? Didn't see any obvious connector.

Dude Matt! Can you get me on TOH!? I've been trying to get on there! I miss BV! He was my hero when I was growing up! Great video Matt!!

Love the video. Do you know of any builders building with container and steal studs?

Matt: “The downside?” Builder: “The cost...it’s twice as much. Sounds like a lot” Me: “No, it IS a lot.

Great video as usual! One con not mentioned, engineered lumber responds to fire especially poorly.

Matt have you ever used Framer Series Lumber from Weyerhaeuser? It’s guaranteed to stay straight.

How do those Engineered lumber boards hold up to moisture over time? What if they get rained on during construction? I have seen too much OSB disintegrate over time from moisture exposure.

@mattRisinger Wow @matt risinger look at you go! Rocking that childhood dream congrats man! Hey you left another fan boy behind,

Hilarious, did you see Jeff Sweenor at the very end?? His face jumped and he was like “wtf” when Matt said “On the build show” out of the blue like that.

Nice comments and great review. You must have no OSHA where you work??? No harnesses are being worn on those in the aerial lift and a guy standing on the very top of a ladder at :22!! It doesn't matter if a guy has his foot on the bottom support brace I'm sure the manufacturer states Do Not Stand On the Top Step...... no exceptions.

could you cover a video over structural plastic studs?

Have to wonder how engineered lumber is as far as screwing or nailing into their edges? I know plywood and certainly osb does not take edge screwing or nailing as well as real lumber.

Tom Silva is an American Treasure!!

When in the US did dimensional lumber go from true sizes to what you buy now is..that’s the question I have...I’ve read it was gradual from the 20’s on for a standard but when did it become common for a 2x4 to no longer be an actual 2X4.

That sure looked like Tom Silva and Kevin O'Connor At 2:30 Would have been cool as hell if they had a 15-20 second South meets North builder !

Matt the tight rings on the Doug fir tell you that it is probably inland NW harvested. The wider rings are PNW Coastal wood. Matt, on the steel studs if they are 20 gauge or thicker they are definitely structural. You are confusing the thin 25 gauge for non bearing commercial walls.

Love TOH!

Nice recycling and I'd do the same, but at this point I'm all about steel framing...

Really like the channel, great information. I have a few comments about steel framing; the reason you wouldn't conventionally frame with it is that it has an Achilles heel, it transmits heat way too effectively. So assuming you are framing things as you would with wood, if you replaced the wood 1:1 with metal framing you get a complete 'thermal short circuit' of the wall envelope. That is, the insulating value of the wall envelope drops precipitously to the point that the insulation between the studs is nearly useless. That characteristic pretty much mandates a very different design approach...like 100% exterior insulation. So its doable but it has major design implications. Another interesting thing is that steel studs are not nearly as precise as you'd think. They also have cupping, twisting, bowing and so on, as a by-product of manufacturing and (sometimes) storage. Its nowhere near as bad as conventional lumber, but it'd be wrong to think of steel studs as being perfectly precise. I'd wager that most engineered lumber is more precise than steel studs. And finally, that design above is using an entirely unnecessary quantity of engineered lumber for the walls, there could be a considerable savings in the spacing of the studs of the walls (barring some unusual condition). That might drop the SF $ cost for engineered lumber on the job as a whole.

In Australia, metal framing for homes is very common at 100% or some lower number.

You mentioned not using it for exterior walls, porches, etc. But isn't that engineered lumber on those outside wall studs behind you? Or did you mean to suggest outside exposure?

Are LSLs as rigid as regular sticks?

Hi Matt :)

my 3 family in queens was built in 1913, now THATS old

1940s... Jeff is thinking thats not old at all! Its brand new for new england!

What is the fire rating on these engineered boards and beams? Specifically versus traditional lumber?

Like two old buddies telling stories

Is off-gassing a major concern for these engineered wood products?

I wonder how the glue will hold up after 150 years. I like solid wood. It will last hundreds of years if kept correctly.

Holy crap! I’m from Westerly!!! OMG that’s insane! I thought Taylor Swift ruined the place for everyone else! FYI in Westerly RI, I AM RIS!!! (I even had the license plate!) haha I’d still like to shake your hand over a beer on me. Lots of nice restaurant bars on Canal st. Just look for the train station, it’s right in the middle of them.

Where's the selfie with Norm?

👍🏻👊🏻

can lsl take a scarf joint?

SPF does not have the rot resistance of Douglas fir......2:57

Why did they use i joists rather than floor trusses if they were going to spend $$ on engineered studs.

i stumbled onto a 2x4 that must have had 60-70 growth rings in it at the lumberyard. Then I accidentally cut it up for a project that i didn't intend to... ah well.

Who else is a fan of 'this old house' thumbs up!!!

how about with mold if framing during rain... like in the PNW? we commonly see that the engineered wood products get mold much much easier and faster, not all over but just spots, there are some yummy chunks in there.

Ya know Matt, as much as you seem to rub shoulders with the TOH crew, I would be surprised if they haven't offered you a host position yet.

You guys are all watching a 10 minute vid about JeffSweenor......

I can't watch This Old House in the UK anymore as Discovery Home & Leisure no longer exists as a satellite TV channel for UK TV viewers. I watch Matt Risinger's channel instead as its the next best thing!

Why you don't build stone houses?

My gut tells me the overuse of engineered framing lumber will be something we look back on with regret. You’d be better off ripping or planing standard framing lumber down to straight than going with a compromised material.

Engineered wood can be great stuff until moisture exposure comes into play. Long builds, leak damage, flood and sprinkler/fire extinguishing water damage will render it practically useless. “Real wood and plywood can dry out and survive. Why take the risk ? Insurance and rebuild/repair costs will drastically reduce any savings realized by using manufactured lumber products.

So the engineered lumber rots faster if you don’t find leaks quickly. I would rather have fast drying lumber.

double the cost!?! never heard of a hand held power planner and butt strips?

my house was built in 1914 its floor is 2x8 old growth douglas fir with a span of 33 feet in the center is a 10x10 df beam that runs the lenght of the house am digging down basment atm to underpin front and increase height while digging ive found 2 horse shoes and the remains of rail road pins picking up an old 2x4 compared to new is shocking maybe 3 times as heavy bigger, hard dense wood grains packed together this shit bends nails and snaps drywall screws poker straight was thinking it has to be stronger than modern 2x6

S W E E N O R B U I L D E R S

Cost is double. “...sounds like a lot”. No, it is a lot.

Metal studs conduct cold at a rate of 1700 times more than wood! Metal makes a cold house.

Any moisture and you will regret the decision to go with lsl

In Matt's REAL Remodels of his crappy 70's house - he opens by taking a jab at all the build and remodel shows that do NOT reveal cost. In his opinion, these shows leave many people with unrealistic expectations of $ when doing major home projects. I agree and the poster child of this bad practice is TOH and here is Matt on a TOH job site! (Although Jeff Sweenor does mention the 2x price adder when using engineered lumber - a rare practice at TOH). I have watched TOH for too many years - in my opinion - it has too much of a fantasy element. It shows what wonderful things can be done when cost is not a consideration. I hope Matt does not go the same way as TOH and hides and shields viewers from initial costs. I fully understand that initial costs may not tell a complete story when one considers home construction. But TOH totally ignores revealing costs on their projects - and I take the show much less seriously.

I'd rather have a real piece of wood instead of wood chips and glue. these engineered houses won't last mark my words

Simply saying it doubles the cost is perhaps a bit misleading for the average viewer. Double the cost ***for the wood***. When considered within the overall cost of the house, it's not overly significant. Moreover, actually having straight walls makes finish work a lot faster and more economical. Good episode.

so twice as expensive and less water resistent

Much more dead load.

This guy looks a little like Mike pence.

Jeff's Wiener? 🤔😂

Sorry I would never want to build a home out of participial board, or OSB. unless they made that crap water resistant and rot resistant the only way I would ever use it for and entire home.

All that beautiful solid wood sheathing and he cheaps out with OSB :0

Awkward interview, felt sorry for the builder guy.

I can't say I've ever met a white English-speaking framer. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, just never met one.