Every American high school student ( students of democracy EVERYWHERE ) should listen to and internalize this message. It is a bulwark against stark, secular humanism, Utopianism and totalitarianism.
As a fellow Aussie I’m very proud Of Jon Anderson. He is a clear and plain speaking Aussie who humbly wants to highlight and clarify the real and life enhancing insights of our best and most noble minds. My wife says as a young man he was “ very easy on the eye”
When I was a student at Kent State University in the mid-1970s, I posted the saying on my locker door: "Music is shaped, organized sound. The world is shaped, organized matter. Get to know the Inventor/Composer. Someone wrote underneath it: "To organize is to destroy. --Lao Tze." I wrote under that: "To organize without sufficient understanding and care is to destroy. To organize with those qualities is to preserve and enhance." The other person wrote: "I like that."
When i saw this on my recommended feed, i literally jumped. Os is my favourite Business/economic theologian and the person that has made me a believer again in democracy and capitalism.
An excellent presentation and Os Guinness is correct that the English Civil War of the mid-seventeenth century and the American Revolution of 1776 were not the same as the French and subsequent Russian, Chinese etc. They were in fact Rebellions and Clarendon's great contemporary book on the English Civil War was entitled The Great Rebellion. The true English revolution was in 1688 when representative parliamentary democracy was finally triumphant and is indeed called The Glorious Revolution from that time forward. Both were essentially religious in nature centreing around the divine right of king's concept, although the American being over a hundred years later having some more secular elements notably from the likes of Thomas Paine to give one example. The French and other revolutions mentioned above were Jacobin/Socialist ones (secular) and as Os so well points out completely different to the English/American rebellions which is why we still have the English Speaking World (ESP) diametrically opposed to the Francophone inspired world. The French and its subsequent spawned revolutions were in fact the long delayed Reformation of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches in those countries where they took place as the countries that became Protestant at the first Reformation from the mid-fifthteenth century onwards culminating in Luther in German and then the more political/religious English one in the mid-sixteenth had already happened and the long road to industrialisation and international/global commerce and economics had begun. As my friend David Starkey is often wont to say "all bad ideas come from France." Never a truer word spoken! although their food and drink are magnifique!!
John your conversation with Os is by far the best I’ve heard ever I’m challenging you John are you that leader we need in Australia we need to pull together the younger politicians that have been standing up and speaking out and work to set them and many more into a team not just individuals
That was superb. I have to say that I've never heard of Os Guinness but I very much enjoyed listening to him. Will be looking to read some of his books for the new year. In fact I will start ordering right now.
The French Revolution was founded by the Jesuits, at the time there were many strong healthy communities founded upon the hierarchy of royalty , these were peaceful prosperous places that the RCC wanted to gain control over for the purposes of strengthening their power and prosperity. These bergs resisted the interference of the Jesuits and pushed them out… the Jesuits then went into France and created the chaos of the revolution, shedding blood everywhere…and thus proceeded to create a precedent for other bergs to oust their monarchies. Leaving them bereft of protection where upon the European Continent engaged in war for many years.Attacking systems of hierarchy create an opportunity to gain control and power. In order to correct this it is important to create the platform upon which the correction will take place, and this is what Oz is referencing when he speaks of the importance of knowing history. From within this grows the leadership. So when we listen to Jordan Peterson and others that he interviews , we are learning the history, and we are giving strength and offering encouragement for people to step into the leadership roles. It is for this reason the JP is under attack.
What a lovely talk, I feel like that was only scratching the surface, however. A few notes that you might find helpful. Christians drank the coolaid? That is the materialism streak that they have in common, that is the enemy. The idea of materialism isn't a rejection of all non-physical things but rather consists of two mistakes. First, it assumes that the physical is primary. Second it jumps the is/ought gap (or the ethereal, material gap) using propositions to like them back to the material realm. The other issue is the flattening of the world - including time. The idea of reparations requires an ignorance of time itself, you have to ignore it entirely, because you cannot redeem, or make perfect the present by trying to account for it in the present. Forgiveness is required because we don't live in a perfect world - which is another problem, they have been taught perfection is possible. Science (and the over promise of those who worship it) seems to give you perfect (accurate and precise) control over the world. If the primary mover of the world is the physical (dominion of science) then it makes perfect sense that materialists wouldn't need forgiveness. Lots of religious folks have already fallen for the materialism, so it must be addressed (differently) there as well - not just in the atheist camp. Leadership is only a problem now because lack of responsibility and the so called post modern critique (which is an observation, not a proper critique) that the problem is charisma. Sadly, when you take charisma out of leadership, you make it very hard to properly lead. Now you can start to rely on emergence (a materialist frame) rather than being responsible for yourself or having to resort to some emanation (like God, for example) to guide you. It is at once empowering and freeing (from that responsibility). Clever trick indeed. Big problem, however.
Covenantal=love; agreement between living beings is altruism with an egoistic interest; words have vibrations that cannot be corrupted. I have to read your books. This is one of the most instructing conversation about our foundational books I've seen. I've learned a lot about a vision for a society based on respect. The covenant, like the US Constitution, is a baseline where freedom is understood, respected, and protected. Thank you so much, your vision of human evolution over the last 2,500 years is a fountain of wisdom. Your host John Anderson is like you, you both are committed men who love humanity so much to inspire others to create a much better world. Like Jordan Peterson, you work passionately to educate people on the path to follow to complete the work required for a harmonized and unified society. The foundation is FREEDOM. A republic is you can keep it! This is a 2,500-year-long project! I need to compute freedom is the greatest enemy of freedom! It sounds like Staline's definition of capitalism: the absence of opposition to communism. Thank you so much for such a beautiful and interesting conversation, merry Christmas!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. History reveals so much and important to study and understand so it's not repeated. Forgiveness is one of the healthiest habits one can practice.
Fascinating 😊programming here , many branches of revolution, true freedom does not originate from Tyrannosaurus 🦖Ex. Tyrany 22 May 2023 ❤Freedom Faith And Fine [Fragile] Virtues .
Thank for the wisdom and insightful through a wonderful conversation to bring perspective on the principles of freedom, virture and faith which is what history provides us with a biblical instruction for living right.
It's been a couple years since I last listened to Os - I'd forgotten just how powerful and yet humble and gracious a thinker he is. Razor sharp insight, but presented in such an erudite and pleasant manner.
Me thinketh one very well informed, knowledgeable and wise.........communicator!@!?😉🙂 Thank you John and Os for the......education!!!🙂 Ossie, Ossie, Ossie.......oi oi oiiiii!!!!🙂🙂🙂
@@voyd1507 This can be reached in the service of the idea that cares about the smallest details before the big ones and is not subject to any interest. Now you only have to compare the ideas that exist between us that work with intentionally disrupted ideas.
Great commentaries, wisdom and a clearing perspective of this evolution. That all comes from leaving God and focusing on the self. Isn't it also New Age?
A Conflict of Visions - Thomas Sowell is all about this and lays this out in detail with similar historic references as mentioned in this conversation.
Thanks a lot John for this significant and encouraging talk. I read Os' book The Dust of Death and some others. I look forward to reading The Magna Carta. Sam, from Bandung, West Java.
Love Os! Most Americans don’t know any history, and as Os Guinness says, have no interest in it! I believe the US will decline, and become a non-power, third world! Thnx for another great interview by mr guinness!
Mr. Guiness mentioned John Glubb's article, "The Fate of Empires". I just read it and am amazed at its implications for our current cultural situation.
John and Os, I enjoyed this conversation. I read an interesting article that posited our revolution here in the US was not about "taxes" but an offshoot of the political struggles in England between the monarchists and the republicans, and the Protestants and Catholics in greater Europe. I was raised Catholic because of of my French and Irish Catholic background on my mother's side. My father was Scott-English and had little interest in his family religion, Episcopalian. He was a wonderful caring moral brilliant man that simply never spoke about religion other than saying, at times, that I should go to church because my mother wanted me to. I have not practiced any religion for 45 years other than Zen Buddhism in my younger days, which turns out to not be a religion, but that is a experience you'd have to meditate on to know. I have recently begun to juxtaposition(?) myself through prayer to God and allowing myself the possibility of accepting his being. Not to ask for anything or expecting anything. I just feel like doing it because it feels right. I do not know Christ and maybe I never will, I am fine with that for today.
Very interesting. May I suggest you give Christian thought a deeper look. You can start with Os Guinness' LONG JOURNEY HOME, and Charles Colson's THE FAITH. Guinness' is more a pre-faith philosophical (in a narrative approach) guide to the exploration of the different families of faith and their fundamental claims and differences. Colson's is a very insightful and refreshing re-articulatuon of what the Christian Faith is truly all about from its beginnings and its contemporary relevance. Slim volumes but very substantive discussions.
@@zgobermn6895 Thank you for taking your time to respond with your recommendations I can not see any path to Christ right now but I am open to God. Perhaps, I am going to become Jewish or Muslim (That is a joke!). Have a very Merry Christmas. Sending love.
My australian grandparents gave up.real wealth to share the gospel with the Chinese They had to escape China when the communists came from their writings it was harrowing my grandfather spoke mandarin and had a deep.love for the chinese he wanted to go back but couldnt
What a shame that only about 700 people have viewed this as of today, 10 months after the initial interview. His voice needs to be heard by more. You have 425,000 subscribers. What's up?
Whom the Son SETS free is free indeed. Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall or will MAKE you free. Pre reign of sin in earth there was, Let us MAKE man in our image, after our likeness and let him have dominion........etc. Sin is a binding, befouling condition. From a judeo-christian standpoint our virtuous nature has been altered(if you will) which is a fixed state but within this corruption we can be MADE free within the confines of this corruptible world. People in our society speak of being made to feel uncomfortable. If you will, this is a kind of uncomfortability by-product of our sinful nature. But the prophet speaks: Comfort ye, comfort ye my people says your God. Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardon. I agree FREEDOM is the freedom to do what we ought. Bob Marley I think has it correct when he sings about the EMANCIPATION OF THE MIND? So I ask: is it possible for those living within Authoritarian regimes to be MADE free while in their state? Conversely: can persons living in a "free" democratic republic and yet be BOUND?
We also need to “unbusy” our lives and get serious about our trouble, first. We have a 2-pronged problem, that the people are not aware of: too much dissipation or worthless activities, and then getting focused on how we should proceed forth. Try tearing people away from their “fun” though. They have no margin in their lives because they see every activity as important and necessary to 21st century living. I hear people on media try to reason with them, but it’s like they are deaf. They can’t understand why they need to cut down on frivolous activities so that they will have room, energy, and time to spend on solutions that we need to address to SURVIVE. Talk to a man about putting away the football…never happen. Or a parent about stopping soccer practice. They just can not see the train coming down the tracks!!! It’s not real to them, because it is carefully being camouflaged. That’s how Marxist work.
Peace of despotism" And antichrist will be an ultimate expression of satan's desperate throws against Sovereignty. Covenant love, the Promise Keeper omnipotent, the Word, Living and Active, creating all that is seen and unseen, Jesus Christ...so complete a Way. Right and Just, I am secure in the Hands of God
@@stigcc Yes it is. OR you could Google New Discourses. A word of warning(?) His podcasts/lectures can go 2-3+ hours. Like I said DEEP Dive. Still well worth the time.
We do not live in Plato’s democracy, but in a republic which is a federation of states with representative government. That is significantly different from Plato’s idea of democracy (each man, one vote even if an utter fool I’ll equipped to understand and give direction to a nation of citizens).
Like it or not the real impact of the removal of freedom will be the beneficiaries of the economy. If you want to understand the direction planned read the Addis Ababa Agreement from the 1970’s .This outlines how development will take place , decision makers, the tight controls that remove any rights of decision making by the people directly affected … for example if you live in an area that has large deposits of a mineral , despite your countries rights and your individual rights these voices hold no tenure in the decision making. Please read this document and then you can correlate how we, here in Canada suddenly started speaking in trillions of dollars…. Hear the commitments made as the government pledges contributions to correct the disparity between the west that has benefited but caused climate change, and how we owe it to those countries who have not benefitted.. this is speak, that in actual fact means we will collect these funds, put them into our banks that are intended to be the controllers of sustainable development as indicated in the Addis Ababa plan. And we the citizens, will finance these corporate entities under the guise of sustainable and development that reflects the concerns of the environment as dictated by the bank.
The English Revolution won (actually a civil war started by a king). It’s just Parliament gave in. Then, the Glorious Revolution. Then, the American Revolution or War of Independence.
What a shame that in Jordan Peterson's Exodus Seminar for every Os Guinness we get 20 Gregg Hurwitz. We're really missing out on all the wisdom and insight Guinness has to offer.
While Australia has not gone full woke on everything the Feminist movement is as strong in Australia as it is anywhere else. Ask any man who has been crushed by the legal system in a divorce. If your a man your guilty of everything until proven innocent. I live in Argentina where the legal system is very equal, ie automatic 50/50 custody, property settlement, reasonable child support. So the effect is more people stay married and if divorces happen its more often men who initiate it.
We aren't polarized and dividing; they are, and by "they," I am referring to the people perverting the plain meaning of words and gender affirmation and the BS that is nonbinary humans. Bullocks, full stop.
@@geraldarcuri9307 I was cast out of a 'church' for manifesting The Glory during worship, destroying my 30 year marriage and dividing my family. That's my side of the story. I believe the perpetrators have another side which they are not revealing because it's not normal behaviour to cast someone out for worshipping God. I have good reason to believe that I have been falsely accused behind my back but after a decade of attempting to confront these perpetrators of abuse and many of their enablers, it's still not resolved and I'm still separated from my family. Forgiveness isn't the issue because due to my faith I extend forgiveness daily and nothing's changed. Many are bound because they blindly partnered with the perpetrators manifesting dishonour, division and hate, works of the religious spirit, not the fruit of The Spirit. (Gal. 5:18-21 Aramaic) They won't repent unless they believe they have done something wrong and clearly they don't, as a result nations are bound. Love covers through confrontation. “Guard your souls. If your brother should sin, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.” Luke 17:3 Aramaic My brethren, if any of you will stray from the way of truth, and a man restore him from his error, 20Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way gives life to his soul from death and blots out the multitude of his sins. James 5:19,20 Aramaic
Os Guinness seems like a very nice man, but his discourse was way too Anglocentric for my taste. The American Revolutionaries got their ideas partly from the Puritan Revolutionaries but they got their ideas at least partly from French thinkers from the period of the religious wars in France. The French Revolution was not a totally different phenomenon from the American Revolution. The French revolutionaries were themselves influenced by the American Revolution and leading figures of the American Revolution like Tom Paine were enthusiastic about the French Revolution. Some of the legacies of the French Revolution, e.g. civil rights being extended to French Jews, were both positive and lasting. They didn't disappear with the restoration of the Bourbon monarchy. Generally speaking, the Anglosphere can benefit from considering the ideas of thinkers from outside it. At the risk of insulting him, perhaps Os Guiness could take a look at the work of the Austro-Marxists Otto Bauer and Karl Renner, who explored ways to have a multi-ethnic state that would respect the identities of the groups composing it, without breaking up into different nations or into mono-ethnic provinces or states. Their ideas might be particularly useful for Americans as they seek to cope with a post-Joe Biden America, where the southern border has been erased for four or more years. Thank you for your wonderful interviews over the last year, John. Merry Christmas and all the best to you and your family in the year ahead.
@@nomanor7987 that’s what it says, people will be forgiven you need the Holy Spirit to be forgiven and if a Christian blasphemes against the saving principles of Christianity then people will be led astray and not forgiven by Christ They need Christ to save them, if they don’t know Christ they can’t be saved but if a Christian knows the Holy Spirit and denies it to others then they are not forgiven
@@nomanor7987 that’s what it says, people will be forgiven you need the Holy Spirit to be forgiven and if a Christian blasphemes against the saving principles of Christianity then people will be led astray and not forgiven by Christ They need Christ to save them, if they don’t know Christ they can’t be saved but if a Christian knows the Holy Spirit and denies it to others then they are not forgiven
John, you are telling people that “we” are “hopelessly” polarised, divided and untrusting. Wow!! Can you as a parent imagine for one second telling that to your child? What positive psychology is in that statement? It’s not the right approach to get the best out of your dear child. You may sound very convincing saying that statement but I don’t believe that statement to be true at all. I believe that we as a people are united in our humanity and yearn to be trusted and trusting so that where we go we all want to go because we need the best of each other in this world. A healthy human desires above all else to be loved and to love each other as Christ loves us. Stop telling people what and how they are thinking. All people in the world are mixed genetically and spiritually even Christians and Jews. What words you put out into this world will manifest if you don’t realise this already. It’s time to STOP listening to the negative “dribble” and “fight” back with the sword of the Spirit. That is words that uplift ALL humanity. These are the positive tribe of all peoples I want around me. ✝️🦘🇦🇺
I do not consent and the people will not have this for in America they have betrayed the constitution when will the government answer for its wrongs it is impossible, our money is not sound but a note of debt we pay debts with more debts it's always trickle up and consolidation round the top. I am jewish just so you know. I celebrate Christian and Jewish holidays.
