FRUSTRATIONS! MAF METHOD (low heart rate training) For Base Building | But I'm Not Worried! 

Really find your MAF videos helpful mate 👍 I’m two months into it on bike and running and it’s good to know others are facing the same frustrations with MAF training

I am in my 20 week MAF block -> I run at night in the woods so that no one sees me.

Thanks so much for your doing this and explaining with great clarity.

Thank you! I needed this!

Great videos. New to the sport. I now understand what to expect from MAF and some timeline expectations. Very well done! Thx for your insight. Cheers!

Great breakdown! MAF training has gotten me through 28 mile fasted runs, a 50 miler, and 2 100K’s. I’ll have to pay attention and see how long it takes to see real progress. I’m also starting at about an 11:05 MAF pace.

This was a good vlog. Decided to subscribe.

Cardiac drift can be caused by running above your 1st lactate threshold (LT1), as well as being due to lack of base fitness. The trouble is with MAF, it isn’t a one size fits all calculation. You should be running at max 70% of max HR, perhaps 65%. It is individual. MAF sometimes says people can train higher than that

Thanks Justin for these videos. Very helpful. I'm in my late 40s and have been running pretty consistently for the last 5 years. I started doing the MAF HR running (not the full program of diet, stress, etc) back in July 2020. And I was pretty consistent for about 3 months in trying to keep nearly all of my runs (20-30 miles each week). My first "runs" were painfully slow (12:45 min/mile) compared to my normal runs where I'd average 8:30 - 9 min/mile pace (but large percentages of the run that were 80%+ of max HR). And after a few weeks, I started to see some improvement and had some runs that were in the 10:30 - 11 min/mile range while staying below my MAF HR target. But I have basically plateaued there, even after trying to mix in a couple of tempo runs each month. So I have several questions and hoping to get your input/advice. 1) I had assumed the benefit of the MAF training would be that I'd get to the point where I could run steadily, without much walking and average a 9-10 min/mile range. But what I notice in doing tempo runs is that it seems my maximum heart rate is actually in the low 180s vs low 170s. So it feels like my heart is getting stronger, I'm just not seeing it in faster pace averages at the low heart rate. But maybe I'm doing something wrong. 2) For the most part, my MAF runs are lots of run / walk (e.g., run 0.1 mile at 9 min/mile pace until HR hits MAF and then walk until it drops down to low 120s and repeat). Because that is far more enjoyable than the other approach where I try and jog/shuffle at the same pace for the entire 4.5 mile run. So my question is if MAF results are better by trying to do the slow steady jogging/shuffling vs. run and walk rotations. Also, not sure if you do individual coaching, but I'd be interested to hear more about that.

Thanks you so much for this video! Im a fairly new runner. Only been about a year and i really thought theres something probably wrong with me since i could never get my heart rate to stick to that lower range and it shoots up drastically all the time even when i was running so slow. Its quite frustrating but i guess id have to do a lot of walks in between now instead.

Thanks for an informative video. I've stumbled across MAF in the last few days and decided to give it a go. I do find the HR calculation strange though, as everyone is different. I'm 57, so apparently, my max HR should be about 163, (and 123 for MAF), but it's actually nearer 180, and I regularly hit 170 when doing a tempo run or hill running. My first attempt was outdoors, in 36C heat and high humidity, and I couldn't jog without my HR going over 140. I then used a treadmill in a gym and after a 15min warmup, set the speed at 10.5kph and a 1deg incline. For the first 30mins my HR was around 125, but over the next 30mins it gradually increased to 130, and stayed there for the remainder of the 90min run. It felt like a very easy run and breathing was light. My question is, should I slow down even more and try to stick to max 123HR, or is a little leeway OK? Thanks

Hi Justin, I've started MAF training and hoping to see results in the first week. In terms of a lose training plan I am looking at doing 4x MAF a week, 1x Speed and 1x Strength (Weights). I'm 31 and doing an 8hour race in September, wanting to get my heart rate down during running to avoid burning energy and remain in a more relaxed state over the greater distance. Any advice would be great!

Your description describes me to a T. Had a race on December 19th and then took off December 20-26 from training. The week of December 27-Jan 1 I did add in some short easy runs and hikes. Jan 2nd was my first proper training run of the new cycle and have definitely noticed the heart rate drift issue. Right now it seems I can make it to around 2 - 2.5 miles before it becomes a problem. For those miles I can maintain under 12 minute pace at target MAF but afterwards have to slowly drop down until around mile 5 I am over 13 minutes per mile.

Thanks buddy for your info your MAF videos are very simple and giving me the push .. I liked your video and subscribed your channel Need to give a small advice .. regulating your breathing while running with any breathing method the suits you will help a lot Greetings from Egypt .. keep up the great work mate

Does MAF method applies to training after base building? I'm used to have paced runs and a couple of speed training every week as soon as I reach 55km per week consistently. For me it seems hard to believe that running that slow would improve my races after base building. Currently I'm 58 years old, able to run 10km in about 44 minutes and doing my long runs in 4'50-5'00 /km with average HR around 134 (maxing at 145/148).

Thanks for this. I’m in my 3rd month of MAF &, yes, frustrated! I’m 61 and the resultant low MAF HR stops me frequently often when I feel I’m just getting into my stride! The worrying part of this is that I don’t appear to be improving my times for my set run ( which is 8k).

If doing maf as a beginner how do i build mileage? Should I swap building mileage for time on feet??

Dude, you didn't explain what you meant by 15, 20, 25 and 30? Did you mean average per week? Or how do you breat down those numbers? Thanks!

I fell back in love with running because of the Maf method…. 4 months in Maf method while on a low carb high fat diet, my pace started at 13:30min per mile ( I know embarrassing🤪) but now 4 months later I’m at 10:45min per mile. HR staying below 141

Thank your for the video. If your heart rate spikes up to 160s while you are trying to shoot for 148 or below then you should consider subtracting an extra 5 beats from 148. This will make your pace even worse and much more walking. But in the long run :) you probably will save more time and by time you feel to graduate to the third category which is 148.

How many hours do you train per week?

My MAF rate is 123- I barely shuffle to get that. I had to go higher (135) for the first month. Then I ran a month at 140. Now I'm training at 150 and breathe comfortably. Next month I'm going for a 10K pr. See how things work. My max ( I'm 57) is around 188 bpm, and I've always run hard when training- till this year. I've really been enjoying the easy running, and I always want to speed up!

I feel like you need to figure in the increases in volume during the base-building phase as well. Adding volume is an important factor in increasing cardiovascular efficiency. But it is especially difficult during base-building with low heart rate to increase volume because it involves the double time commitment of both running longer and running slower, in addition to the added boredom or length of time feeling embarrassed. People go, "Ugh, it was so awful going slow for 20 miles last week, why would I want to do the same thing for 22 miles this week". But adding volume during low heart rate is the safest way to do it and will get you past the embarrassment stage the fastest. Often when people are run/walking or jogging very slow they are able to add volume beyond the 10% rule without much danger.

On your walk breaks, what cue do you use to know when to return to a run? Do you wait for your HR to get a certain number of bpm below 148, for example?

Great video. But I am a bit surprised that a two week layoff would cause a person to "start over" with MAF training. I understand that we have training cycles. But my hope is that I can consistently improve my Aerobic base through MAF. After 6 months I have switched to 80-20 running and I will see if MAF improves or stays the same. I hear about runners that have been using MAF for years and get to the point where their MAF pace is actually a bit too fast and they want to slow it down more. That is the kind of Aerobic system I want to build!

I found MAF very effective for working through injury but a combination of low HR with higher intensity to build aerobic capacity more quickly. The MAF runs session after session just aren’t fun and I run for enjoyment. I think tactical employment of MAF is quite useful but I’m not prepared to commit to it at the expense of the joy of running.

I know this is a stupid question but...u are wearing a HR strap, correct? I'm having the same problem at almost the same distance and I'm NOT wearing a strap. I decided to get a "better" HR monitor and didnt have the $ for the strap yet. Only have 102 day til my first triathlon in almost 4 years so im really hoping everything just clicks at some point. Keep up the good work my friend we all appreciate it.

Why do this over 8p/20?

just wondering what the INCLINE setting would be on the Treadmill for this MAF approach? cheers

Hey Justin - good luck with the base building phase. I have a question that isn't related to the topic of the video so apologies in advance. Over the last month I've been struggling with a mild case of Anterior Shin Splints. I've taken time off and I'm working the rehab, more now than I did when the issue first surfaced. I have tried to get back to running but I've had two separate runs where I had to stop because of the discomfort. So it seems like the injury hasn't healed. How long am I supposed to rest with something like this? It's been an incredibly frustrating month with stop starting and I feel like I'm watching my fitness just slip away. I don't want to rush back into running again only to have to take more time off because of another recurrence but I have no idea how long I should wait until I try again. Are there any tests I could do to see if I'm ready to get back out there? Also, any videos you'd recommend ito showing the optimal rehab exercises I should be doing? Thanks in advance.

Great content Justin. I’m in 3 weeks of MAF training with HR 135. I can only jog for short time before my HR jumped above 135. And after sometime it would be more difficult to lower my HR even if I only walking. Is that normal at early stage? Any suggestion? Thank you!

Do you think drinking coffee before the morning run will result in HR spikes? What type of modification did you do for your meals?

I can’t, tried. At 58 and living in a very hilly area. MAFF says 122. I go by feel, easy is 136-138, mod 140’s and so on. Might need to try again or move

I am trying this and all I am doing is jogging and walking like a yoyo. I am trying to use a 10 beat range instead of the strict MAF number. I start jogging get a few minutes in and the HR climbs to my 140 mark, so I walk to bring it down, and repeat. Is the yoyo normal? Jig/walk/jog/walk

This is an older video but your progression of 15 20 25 30 was that four months or weeks?

Don't you think you might be too conservative in the build phase? I think you can bump up much more aggressively to your "regular/maintenance" mileage without risking injury. While it's true that your VO2 max might go down, it's not like your legs rot in two weeks. :D I have a base of approximately 30miles a week and if I took that long off, I'd probably do a 20 mile-week followed by a 30 mile week, provided there's not much (if any) speed or high-intensity work. That said, it's very individual but I wouldn't take a whole month to build back to my regular volume of running.

When i started using the metric DFA alpha-1 to measure my maf in real time as I'm running it seems to show that maf heart rate changes from day to day and even during the run.On most occasions my maf at the start of a run is 180 minus age minus 5 for about 20 mins.Towards the end of a run it can be 180 minus age plus 20 .Once every 10 days or so its Maf minus age plus 30 odd ,generally on long runs which eventually become acceleration runs.I'm 61 so instead of training ~125-130bpm its now 115- 155 bpm.As DFA alpha-1 is an HRV metric to calculate maf it's probably not suitable for runners who have atrial fibrillation as this increases HRV so you could end up overt-training.Time restricted eating like 9 hrs a day increases my maf number,so there are too many variables to come out with one single maf heart rate.The good thing about Maf calculation though is you're definitely in Maf although maybe too high for the first 20 mins or so.

So I’m 56 years old, i run 6.2 miles every other day for a total of 24.8 miles per week. Mt average heart rate for these runs is 152 bpm. My Mac number would be 124. I just don’t believe going that slow will help me improve.

Do you get the +5 bpm from MAF point d?

I am 73. I have a problem with using MAF. I think that it falls apart as you get older. For my age I should keep my HR 103-113.. Too much one size fits all. My max HR is 182 and my Lactate Threshold HR is 160 so 103-113 makes no sense. Either I followed the aerobic max = max HR - 30bpm or follow zone 2, which I followed Seiler's 72-79% MHR (ventilatory threshold = 77-79%MHR.That is my experience and take on the MAF method.

I am not arguing that MAF works, it obviously does. As an experienced long time runner I just cannot do it. Because I run for enjoyment and the ‘workout’ aspect of the sport as well as training to be my best on race day this method just takes the fun out running for me and not worth it even though long term it may work better. At 64 years old my MAF HR is 115 so I can hardly even jog lightly without walking to stay within MAF guidelines. Good info though, thanks!

The spirit of this low-intensity method is that you keep intensity low. When my watch is telling me my heart rate is spiking, but my breathing is unchanged in a 3-3 or 4-4 pattern (e.g. 4 steps on inhale/4 steps on exhale), then I tell the number on my watch to bug off, and just enjoy all the benefits of aerobic-zone training. Just this morning my Garmin was unexpectedly telling me HR=150 at very slow pace, and so I stopped and immediately counted physical beats for 10 seconds, and calculated my HR to be 108. Lesson learned: go with breathing pattern (in the 3-3 to 4-4 range) to ensure you're in a good intensity zone.

It's finding that gear between running and walking. Most people think running has to be fast so they'll 'run' till their HR goes too high then walk till it comes back down and repeat, this is NOT MAF training! Learn to run slower, embarrassingly slow. Here's a couple of tips, run early in the morning when no ones around if you are embarrassed at how slow you're running. Run with shorter strides but higher cadence. Forget about your speed and just enjoy being out and alive and look at you're surroundings! 👍

Aren’t we running for the fun, excitement, enjoyment of the ‘’RUN”? The slow pace i would have to keep at 56 years old would bore me so much, I wouldn’t be excited to go on runs anymore.

You have to add 5 beats if you train longer than 2 years ...

Run Slow....especially beginners. Can walk fast uphill on a treadmill. MAF I find gives you a good upper easy run HR. or basically the high end of zone 2... it's better to be on the lower side of that number than the higher side. Also be honest.....most overweight out of shape new runners need to minus 5 or minus 10 from that 180- number. Good luck!

You talk a lot about "feel". While this is OK, how are you backing that up with hard data? I'm a cyclist and have been doing low intensity training for 3 months (50 rides, of which 6 have been at high intensity ((I'm using the 3 zone scale)) My data shows little or no improvement for the first 3 weeks then a sudden improvement, approx 20 watts for the same BPM, but since then, nothing that shows further improvement. Be interested in hearing how other athletes monitor their progress. 😀

Reading the comments from those starting MAF in their late 40s to 50s, I think a question many need ask is: does it even make sense that one could run really fast simply by sticking to a specific HR (which results in training between a really slow jog and walking), a MHR of low 130s to 120s, without stressing your body with more speed, high intensity training (like 80/20 training)? Or by inference, HR drift will not affect your HR eventually? I find this MAF stuff anecdotal and incomplete.

Maffetone is kind of like a cult... ditch your heart rate monitor a few runs a week and just go by feel. The “talk test” is a much better than indicator of low intensity effort than some number on your chest strap monitor.

This is not a good method. Do a lactate threshhold hold test, measure the heartrate and calculate the zones from that. Or make a maximum heart rate test, measure your resting heart rate by wearing your watch during the night and then use karvonen formula. 149 for me is too high. I could do a recovery jog at 123 and usually my easy pace gves me 129 bpm. For others, MAF is too high. Heart rate is very individual.

I've never had to walk just slow down

MAF: Massive Aerobic Frustration.

Without being funny, why on earth would you guess your heart rate zones using a formula that is only meant to be used for plotting best fit at the population level but is wildly innacurage for any given individual / rather than determining your own max and resting heart rates and then calculating your exact heart rate zones yourself!?

Trained guy took 2 weeks off and have to build up aerobic base again? Sure 🤣

You don’t lose fitness significantly in 2 weeks. Stopped watching when you claimed you had at the start.