Full 200 AMP Electrical Service Upgrade Install 

I am glad you found it help! Thank you for the kind words!

I’m very glad to hear that!

A good looking job on your main service panel! Sharp and neat

Thank you for the kind words Mark! We share the same philosophy. There is no substitute for quality work.

You’re welcome! and good luck!

Thank you Randy! Glad you enjoyed it! They have some great combos out there now.I hope things go smoothly for you!

Thank you Jafar!

Thank you!

Thank you! I am very glad you enjoyed it

Thank you Eric! More electrical videos on the way!

Thank you so much! Means the world to hear things like this! Welcome to the channel!

Thank you Don!

Thank you Richard!

Thank you Richard!

Well either way thank you! lol

Thank you!

That’s awesome! Sounds like you’re putting in some good work! Thank you for watching!

Thank you!

Thank you! and that’s exciting!

Thank you!!!

Totally agree! Way too long to complete 😂Thank you Andrew!

@@DownToTheFrame Pro-tip, you want things to be level with the structure not gravity when using a bubble level, if you want things symmetrical.

@@MrAnderson5157 Thank you for the tip!

@@DownToTheFrame I'm sure you knew that, just putting it out there for those who might not know :) Saves on time, frustration, and perhaps materials.

@@MrAnderson5157 haha yes, I agree it is much easier to get things to look right when you level it with what you are mounting to

Thank you!

Thank you!

Thank you! Great minds think alike when it comes to tools! and Yeah I would have preferred to use a 2in pvc but there wasn’t enough room with the pre-existing KOs on the box. As far as the sizing of the grounding electrode I just followed the chart in the code book for sizing of that. Luckily if it is oversized it doesn’t hurt anything lol Thank you again!

@DownToTheFrame would be great to have no pre stamped ko's on panels.use Greenlee ko set .mark it,drill it,punch it.

@@frankm5019 that would have made life a LOT easier lol

@@DownToTheFrame Why couldn't you drill a larger hole where the knockout was to fit a larger 2 inch PVC pipe? Was the bottom too small? If not is there any code saying not to drill it?

@@tatersinc there simply wasn’t enough blank material in the bottom rod the box. I would have preferred a box that didn’t have pre-stamped knock outs that way I would have had more options

Thank you so much Vince! Means a lot to hear that. I am not licensed. I am a 2nd year apprentice for an industrial electric company.

Thank you!

It met code where I am and passed inspection but an ideal way to do it is to continue the PVC conduit or even EMT. The more protection the merrier!

haha it was also a favorite moment of mine! and I don’t know lol Old guys like to work harder

Haha I’ll look into some ways to keep it smooth for everyone 😎 Thank you for the constructive criticism!

Thank you!

Thank you! Haha and yes it would be an expensive bit of work but sometimes doing things the ideal way cost a little more money. Luckily things like this don’t need to be touched for decades.

Hey Paul! I am looking into your question further. Unfortunately, the video that channel posted does not explain his reasoning. So far based on the thermal tables in the code book, for the type of SER I used, I have not found any issues with using a 100 amp breaker but the electrical field has many overlapping rules so I will try to confirm in the next couple of days! To clarify, I believe that video is talking about burying the cable in a wall cavity with insulation. Which does change how much amperage conductors can carry according to the code book. In this instance, my cable is not buried in a wall.

So I have reviewed the code and consulted with some very experienced colleagues. More than likely the reason that guy said to only use 90amps is because of most terminals only being rated to 75c. Which if you rate the cable at 75c instead of 90c you get 90amp max rating. However, there is a chart in the code book specifically for feeder wiring. Sub panel wiring is considered feeder wiring. That chart states you can use 2 AWG aluminum. Also, there is a section that states to rate wiring that touches insulation in a wall cavity at 60c. However, it is only for 10 AWG wire and smaller. So 2 AWG aluminum does not apply. Lastly, loads calculated for panels are only allowed to be at most 83% of the load. Which is less than 90amps anyway. So the wiring won’t see anything more than that. Using a 100amp breaker according to this information is safe and to code.

In a residential application you are allowed to use the 83% rule on your service wires and feeder only if the feeder is carrying a 100% of the load. By installing a meter combo and feeding your ac, your feeder to the sub panel does not carry 100% of the load. That means you have to size the feeder wire according to the load. And breaker it accordingly. 90amp wire=90amp breaker.

Thank you!

Thank you! and that’s a great idea! A little more pricey but would have been a lot easier.

Thanks!

You’re most certainly welcome!

you could use what we call a threaded chase nipple or a fully threaded nipple this allows out to mount cabinets right next to each of other or back to back

I wish!

@@DownToTheFrame Trust me i'm a finish carpenter, No electrician is going to put azek under the meter and also under all your clip locations they will just screw through the siding.

haha that is true. It takes a lot of work

Love the energy Dave!

hahaha best comment yet!

Another great question! So I actually did swap it out for a 4 AWG but technically, if you can find it in the code book, there is a bit of a grey area saying you can use 6 AWG if it is not susceptible to damage.

Great question! There is a new grounding system attached to the new panel. Then from there I ran a ground with my sub panel feeder conductors to the sub panel and that is what connects the grounding systems

Great question! they are still bonded together but i like to keep things organized grounds and neutrals on their own bar.

Perfect. That’s what I figured. I’m a big fan of keeping everything neat as well!! I actually “wrap “ the neutral and Ground together full length. Does the #6 ground have to be in conduit ?

This is a great question! No, I don’t think that will help. You need the right electrician to solve this problem. It being the whole house does lead me to believe that you may have a main service issue and if you don’t already have a 200amp panel, it might be worth it to upgrade the service

Thank you! If you ever have any questions please ask! I’ll help if I can!

One goes to the sub-panel inside the house.

I’m sorry I am not sure I fully understand your question. If you have specific questions about where to connect specific wires in a specific UL listed enclosure I would contact a local electrician for assistance.

Thank you! And the inspector actually referenced the 3 foot rule when he did my inspection. Not sure why he didn’t mention this 10ft rule. I will be getting rid of those tanks eventually anyway. I will keep that in mind for the future!

thank you! and I agree! Schooling is always needed.

That’s a great question. If you are curious if your local utility will install the underground part to your house, you can call them directly and ask! I can’t confirm or deny if that is true because it varies per town/state. In my state, it is the electricians job to put the underground conduit and wire in.

Great question! The answer is probably money / the authority having jurisdiction in the municipality

You’re welcome!

Yes, Azek is a plastic product that is very durable. Check out their website if you’re interested in more information!

Great work. Very professional installation

Thank you Aaron!

haha well i’m glad to hear we have the most skilled framer in the business watching the channel!

@@DownToTheFrame he didn't mention the house he is framing and plumbing is only a 6' x 3' tiny home.

Not sure what eyes you’re referring to. Are you talking about my service conductors coming from the poll or my grounding electrode conductor?

I am in the works of collecting material for replacing the panel inside. I wanted a cheap option to get the house powered while I planned the rest of the electrical upgrades. I will for sure be posting a video of those upgrades in the future! and I will be swapping out the 2/0 aluminum for 2/0 copper to allow for 175amps inside the house.

Awesome, also forgot to mention u did a real nice n clean job outside Quick ? the inspector didn’t say anything about the house service head not being above utility line service just wondering because here in NY it’s code

@@phillyelectric7043 I did not see anything about that in the requirements from my power company and the inspector did not mention it so I don’t believe that is code. The weather head is also right in-line with the weather head

Great question! It comes down to where we want the electricity, in the even of a fault to ground, to go. If we bounded each sub panel there is the possibility that the fault current could energize the grounds. This creates a condition known as “objectionable current” or parts of the system being energized when they shouldn’t be. We want the fault current to return to the source, spike the amps, and trip the circuit. Ground bars do touch the case but neutral bars are actually isolated from the case via insulated spacers. The only time they are not, is when there is a screw or strap that connects it to the case. I hope that helped!

it’s actually 2-AWG aluminum 3 wire. 2-hots, neutral, and a ground

and thank you! Sorry for the late response I’ve had a bit of a cold!

New Hampshire. Live Free or Die

Great question! I don’t know the exact answer. If the PVC extends past a certain point it will more than likely sag in the sunlight. It for sure cannot be used as a point of attachment for the triplex. You will need to have a much more sturdy material as a point of attachment. There is a section of the code the explains acceptable points of attachment.

Inspector cleared it and Irving has been filling the tanks for a year now. No complaints. I agree that it should be as far away from gas sources as possible. I am in the process of eliminating gas from the house anyway.

Yeah, 3’ from those seemed like a bad idea, code or not. Plus, going to the other side of that window would have hidden the install more from street view.

hahaha yeah we thought the timing could not have been better 😂

That is a great idea! I do not have a generator but I do plan on adding one and making a video in the future!

They increased the triplex size probably to account for future electrical demand on our home. It more than likely would have worked fine with the existing triplex

You will need to check your local code but I always recommend a main breaker outside the house. This allows all power in the house to be shut off in an emergency or trip and protect all wires inside your house.

@@DownToTheFrame thank you. I went to the inspector office he went on about how he spent all this money to go to school why should he tell me, lmao.. Might have to call for the inspection and hope it’s not the same guy take the hit and show what I’ve done.. I will keep trying to find my local code,, thx again for replying!!

Yeah so areas make you jump through hoops to get a service installed

Is it though?

haha just friends helping friends!

That’s a good piece of info! I’m always trying to make sure things are extra well built so I personally will probably always use Noalox on my aluminum terminations.

That's not true.

Aluminum is aluminum. You don't know what you're talking about.

They have better alloys in the aluminum that is produced today compared to aluminum produced in rhe 1970s.

It’s worth it for peace of mind even if that’s true. With all the money spent a little antioxidant is a small expense

The meter box does need to be changed but the meter can remain the same

haha yes I tried to use products rated for the cold but we shall see how it holds up this winter!

Great question! The simple answer is that you end up creating more than one path way for fault current to travel back to its source. This means you may potentially energize wires or anything grounded in certain circumstances.

@@DownToTheFrame shortest most simple answer I've come across thus far. Thanks for answering my question.

@@Prodigal450 You’re welcome! Anytime!

You will need to reference local and national electrical code. However, I can tell you that for my 200amp panel I used 4/0 aluminum SER (service entrance cable) which contained two hot conductors, a neutral, and a ground. I bonded my grounds and neutrals at the first means of disconnect. For me, this was at my meter socket. Make sure the cable you purchase is rated to be ran inside wall cavities. Cables labeled as “Overhead condusctos” might only be rated to be used outside. The manufacturer information will tell you what it’s rated for.

@@DownToTheFrame thank you for your response! I was doing a lot of research trying to find answers and I noticed 4/0 is rated for 205 amp depending on the material it’s wrapped in. But there was some site that says account for like 20% extra so like 240 amp wires? Also I was seeing that it was recommending XHHW-2? Would I need 250 MCM XHHW-2 or has your meter to panel 200 watts been fine with your 4/0 AWG SER? Also I’m in Arizona where it gets 180 in the attic but of course I can do things to get that lower like adding high cfm vent fans. Thank you for taking the time to help me

@@ChemysteryKids So in the 2020 national electric code there is a chart that tells you what size conductors you need for single phase dwelling service and feeders. The wire you are running is a feeder so according to that chart (no thermal corrections applied) all you would need is 4/0. However, only a licensed electrician could determine if your environment calls for larger conductors due to the heat. There are tests and math involved in that. Aluminum SER would more than likely be what they recommend running.

@@DownToTheFrame awesome thank you! Last question do I need a 2 or 3 phase panel? Running 5x 20 amp 110v sockets, 2-3x 20-30 amp 220v breakers depending on how much and many dedicated lines the mini split requires for 28k btu and the 2nd or third is for my 15 amp compressor

@@ChemysteryKids Your house more than likely only has single phase (two hot conductors) going to it. That means you can have 120v and 240v power. You don’t need three phase unless you need 208/480v power. You seem to be more concerned about amperage and not voltage. Load calculation are very complex. They are based on factors such as, how much current is being drawn, for how long, at what times are the loads being used, if they are motor loads, or non-linear/linear. However, most homes 200amps is plenty. I didn’t hear you mention any car chargers or tankless electric hot water heaters so my best guess is 200amp would be fine. Although again, only a licensed electrician would be able to tell you for sure.

I don’t think it will. As long as the welder doesn’t produce it’s own electricity

Great questions! First, the third piece of conduit just goes to a 20amp receptacle so i can plug lawn tools into it. I used 2 inch conduit for the 4/0 wires going from the weather head to the meter. The 1.5 inch conduit goes into the house feeding a 100amp sub panel. In the future i will need to add more conduits for other sub panels

Yep! Separate them neutrals and grounds!

You’re welcome! and I used the Azek branded fasteners. It comes in a kit with a special drill bit, screws, and plugs

Are those GRK screws mounting the panel going through the Azek and into the studs or just through the azek? I'm installing a panel for the first time and just trying to wrap my brain around all that it entails. Any tips or tricks? And I did go through an apprenticeship, I just work as a theme park electrician not a residential/construction one 😂

I love it! Great to hear you are learning how to do this work! Ideally you find a stud to at least mount one side to. However, in this application I knew that me sheathing is 3/4 which is plenty of thickness to hold the outdoor rated GRK screws I used. The screws should be long enough to go through the Azek (because it’s not structural) and then into the wood behind.

I’m glad you like it! I just used white J channel from homedepot that matched the same depth as what was already on my house. It should be readily available!

Thanks so much. Earlier the J channel that you showed was the same as the siding and was confused. The white was a good choice.

@@stevenfrank5971 Yeah I didn’t have enough of the green but the white worked out okay! Thank you!

one last question. What did you use to fill the screw holes in the Azek? The video was to quick to make out. Thanks Again

Azek has a kit that comes with a drill bit, screws, and plugs!

It is code to seal the conduit that the feeder enters through

That’s good information! Thank you!

Great question Ellen, it will greatly depending on your location and the work that needs to be done. I would recommend calling a couple companies. Pay for them to estimate it. Try to identify the most experienced and knowledgeable option.

I used 2awg 4 wire aluminum SER and limited it with a 100amp breaker

Great question! Yes, Schedule 40 PVC conduit is allowed. You cannot use it as a point of attachment though.

Yes lol

@@DownToTheFrame Thank you. Not all heroes wear capes🦸‍♂️

@@theseattlegreen1871 hahaha you’re welcome!

Great question! I am not using my conduit as an attachment point so there is no need to use ridged. Also, PVC is no conductive. This eliminates the chance of it becoming an inductive choke and causing a fire.

It is required in California. Your right, about attachment point. But even if no attachment point, you still ND rigid or imc

Only way it would cause a fire, if connections are bad. I believe from your knowledge, that it wouldn't on your job

It is not a requirement in NH and the only people saying that it is are from California. Interesting rule but if the neutral is dropped for whatever reason is the main concern. It could be on the pole or damage to the house.

@@DownToTheFrame you guys are lucky, rigid is slot more expensive

I am not a licensed electrician. I was an industrial apprentice electrician for about two years. This was my first and only residential service that I did

We do! I’m sure the climate has a play in that

A lot of homes around here still have SER just stapled on top of the the siding

I will be utilizing it for resistive heating, car charging, and electric oven

@@DownToTheFrame i meant do you have to run greater capacity feeders into the home or something?

You would run the appropriately sized feeders for the size breaker panel you have inside your house.

a.co/d/ghdOAeE

That should be the one! It’s awesome!

@@DownToTheFrame it is thanx!!

You’re welcome!

Yes they are

Interesting the manufacturer installation manual makes no comment about that. I also didn’t find anything in the 2020 NEC code about that. Is that a local code in your area?

Yes, it would!

Thank you, the electrician out the bonding screw in the main panel which is a sub @@DownToTheFrame

Yes, removing the bonding screw in the right move. The grounds and neutrals should only be bonded at the first means of disconnect.

one other question. If I want to put a whole house surge protector in, would that go in the sub or the main? Thank you for all of your help! Tom @@DownToTheFrame

I would personally put the whole house surge protector as close to the main feed of the house as possible. Or if you wanted to, you could put one in every panel. The idea is take catch as much energy from the surge as quickly as you can.

uh oh! I hope not too much! 😂

Great question! For my situation you do not a expansion fitting. A few reasons are length of the pipe, the pipe not transitioning, and the clips i used allow for expansion

Great question and answer. Good to know

Don’t need expansion joints unless transitioning from underground.

Code requires that you seal the feeder conduit entering the building. There are many methods of sealing it. Just make sure sealant is listed and labeled to be used in that context.

@@DownToTheFrame interesting. I assumed the gasket on the LB cover waterproofed the conduit entry. I dont see that practice here in CA

@@bigtroll8249 It’s not meant for water. It’s meant for fire. It also helps keep the cold out. It is in the 2020 NEC somewhere. I forget the section. We use to do it on pad mount transformers in the industrial world as well.

@@DownToTheFrame ahhh.. I see. U do clean work BTW. Thx for making videos 🙏

@@bigtroll8249 Thank you!!!

Could have but then I would have had a lesser quality product. You can always do things cheaper. You usually compromise quality as a result.

No it is in New Hampshire

Yes, I did! Limited it with a 100amp breaker

@@DownToTheFrameWhen you wired the SE wire from your main to your sub you connected the red and black to your 100 amp breaker and then you put your neutral and ground wire on the appropriate side bars. But aren't the neutral and ground bars bonded in your main box? My new 200 amp Meter box with breakers only has 1 side bar in it. I assumed this was because it was going to be bonded anyway.

if you have a disconnect at your meter, your panel needs to have the grounds and neutrals separated. Most panels have a bonding screw or bar that is removable. That way they can be separated

@@DownToTheFrameJust wanted to thank you. I passed my inspection on Tuesday of last week. I basically did the same upgrade on a 1900 farm house here in the UP of Michigan. On to tearing off the roof!

⁠@@drewthomasarnal5378You’re welcome! Nice work! It’s so satisfying to have a home powered by your own system

Those are certainly some tips to that can make your ground system even safer than what code requires! Love it!

@@DownToTheFrame Don’t forget all codes are just minimum safe standards they are not best design or best practices. Always work to level up and bring up your game. In the commercial world on commercial buildings or communications towers all grounding has been Cadwelded for decades, The kids for standard residential ground rods are like $10 each and you’re a fool if you’re not using them because then you’re just selling your jobs too cheaply,

@@shockingguy I agree code is minimum. I will have to try out the welding and further spacing in the future!

That’s a great idea to make sure snow never comes close to it! Where we are the snow hasn’t come close to it and I think our snow fall is getting less and less

@@DownToTheFrame well I guess that’s good to know, here in Cleveland Ohio we can still get large snow falls they could easily drift or go over 2 feet the only way I would have a receptacle down that low is if it was in a garden or a tree bed for landscape lighting. But for service receptacles they should always be as high as you can get them away from the environment.

@@shockingguyIt is for sure a good idea. I’ll keep it in mind for next time!