Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Did Benjen Trick Jon? 

This is like a breath of fresh air amidst the stench of all the D&D BS. Thank you.

Hmm I never realised how cold benjen actually was, I guess I'm still kind of blind by show benjen, thanks for pointing this out and keep up the good work.

I always wondered if Benjen "snuck out" to join the feast at Winterfell. There seems to be no reason for Mormont to grant him leave to party. Benjen shows up at Wintetfell, eats drinks and doesnt bother speaking to Ned then leaves. Am I missing something here.

Here's one I cooked up for you... What if Benjen was as ambitious as many of the other characters in the story, and made a play to become Lord of Winterfell when Ned and Robert are defeated, but they won, and thus ruined his plan? Maybe Lyanna's promise has nothing to do with Jon, or her stillborn baby, and she begged Ned not to have Benjen executed. Ned forces Benjen to go to the Wall but lets him save face by "volunteering." Ned would likely forbid Benjen from returning, their interactions are not brotherly, but because of his promise not to execute him, and because he is a Night's Watch brother Ned is forced to interact and welcome Benjen so long as he is not deserting or breaking any laws. Haha! Just digging rabbit holes... But as for Benjen's attire, remember that the Night's Watch didn't exactly have uniforms. Waymar Royce wears much nicer clothing than his fellow rangers in the prologue. Of the members of the Night's Watch that we get to meet, are any as wealthy as House Stark? Maybe Janos Slynt? And maybe the three Stark brothers were like the three Baratheon brothers: Brandon-Robert, Ned-Stannis, Benjen-Renley.

“My father dreamed of resettling the Gift,” Jon admitted. “He and my uncle Benjen used to talk of it.” - Storm of Swords, Jon , Ch. 76

"Hello, and welcome back to the Wolf's Den" These words are not wind

I would like to see a video about the great northern conspiracy.

House Dayne's secret words "Ned sent Benjen to the wall" George planned it all!

Thank y’all so much for bringing back the book theories during the season. I love the show, but I can’t believe how much I actually missed talking/listening about book theories. Keep pumping out the good stuff!

I thought Ned Stark usually fought Kat to have Jon sit at the table like any of his other children, hence why Benjen wondered why he was hidden away in the back for once. It would’ve seemed odd to him that Ned caved and treated Jon like a bastard when he usually didn’t. Atleast that’s what I took from it.

So we are suggesting that Benjen manipulated the Jon to the wall situation to spite his brother. I always wonder why he instigated the conversation about the wall, you might be on to something here.

If this theory is true(from the evidence presented, I think it is true), this would give even more credence to Jon being Neds son. Why would Benjen use lyanna's son(and rightful king) to get revenge on Ned for sending him to the wall? If the whole point of Benjen holding a grudge comes from him being mad at Ned for the way he handled the situation with R+L, and the fact that Benjen was really close with Lyanna, that would seem to be even more evidence that Jon really is Neds son.

In a way, this could tie in really well with your theory of N+A=J. I think if Jon was really Lyanna's son, I think Benjen would have been a lot nicer to him considering that Jon would be the child of his favorite sibling. Or something like that.

The show isn't fun to watch anymore but I still have you guys.

I don't often agree with your theories and analysis's conclusions, but this one makes so much sense I won't be convinced it's not the truth. This, for me, paints a much different picture of Benjen. Really looking forward for the followup.

“The moron playing the high harp”😂that made my day I think maybe Benjen might of chosen the wall as he felt bad for the deaths of his father and brother if only he told them Lyanna and Rhaegar had meet and kinda liked each other (knight of the laughing tree theory) they would still be alive and even if they didn’t believe him he tried and after seeing life at the wall and how shit it is he’s pissed Ned let him go without a second thought

I always wondered if Benjen knew about the actual circumstances of Jon’s birth.

The Order, true to their word and packing theory heat!

Something you might consider for the next video is what Bran saw happen to Benjen when he crossed stick swords with Lyanna. He fell into the godswood pool, the same thing the pregnant woman who wanted a son to avenge her did, a baptism if you will in the always cold godswood pool where winter fell.

Stunning. This makes so much sense. Benjen wanted revenge, so he took Ned's son.

Yay, I broke up with the show a few weeks ago. It’s great to get back to the book.

It could be that sending Jon to the Wall was Ned's plan, and he utilized Ben to manipulate Jon. It could also be that Ben chose the Wall out of guilt - he wasn't the first Stark to join the Night's Watch, after all. If Ben was sent, he may have felt he deserved to go after so many people died - we just don't know. I also think that we know too little to say for sure whether Ben's behavior to Jon was truly cold, or if he had other reasons for being distant - we do not know what was going on in his head, what he knows, what he's planning, etc. He may have been distance simply because he felt guilty that Jon was giving his life to the Watch so young, and he had encouraged him. Also, I doubt that Mormont would have made up his mind about Jon Snow becoming the next Lord Commander so quickly. Benjen could still have been the heir-apparent, and may have planned with Mormont not to have Jon join the rangers in order to protect him - Waymar Royce had a similar look to Jon, if I'm not mistaken, and that seems important somehow. It's good to think outside the box when theorizing, and this may be one of the possibilities for Benjen's story, but there's too much that's not known to say for sure. I still enjoyed the video.

Indeed, it seems that Jon was Benjen's only target during this trip at Winterfell. We don't have any evidence that he talked to his brother, or to the king, or anyone in the king's entourage. Just to Jon and Luwin. That being said, the real question then becomes: who sent Benjen? Was he there on his own accord, or was he sent for this "mission" by Mormont (i.e. by Mormont's raven, the true Lord Commander of the NW)?

Oh sweet another video. I hope aside Benjen we get the rickon video as many fans forget abour these 2

Ok so ive been rereading and thinking hard as usual and I've got some new ideas. I think Benjen is alive and is working with Bloodraven. This video originally planted the thought of the two of them working together in my head. He definitely manipulates Jon into joining the watch as bloodraven manipulates him once there. Then the best ranger in the watch just vanishes without a trace, very similar to bloodravens disappearance. Also, I think Benjen would have been able to recognize Mance at Winterfell, so he may be in on it as well. However the biggest thing that triggers me that Jon is a puppet is the way he found Ghost. Through all 5 books the constantly describe ghost as quiet, silent, and incapable or barking or howling.His fur is also pure white camouflaging him perfectly with the snow, so how the hell did Jon find him?

Liked the video before started watching cuz this is going to be good

Finally a video that is not a 5 hour long stream with an information density of 0.001% ;) Great!

Grrm gives mysterious responses when he doesn't want to give shit away. He's only human. I don't think he has the end story for every character he writes. So when he doesn't answer its because he himself doesn't know. He has set clever flag posts in his story but if he gives the way and we figure it all out..then that would diminish his"genius". He wants the respect for his ideas that was denied him from hollywood. I do hope he finishes. That would put all this into awesome pers perspective. Another awesome video👌

I loved this video. Your work is amazing. I know you guys are busy with live chats but I do enjoy these videos so much. The theory makes perfect sense. I could see this being spot on. Picking up on the small details and spinning the narrative like you guys do helps me understand the levels of complexity to the story. You guys kill it.

Anyone ever discuss these theories drunk with their friends? One of my favorite things a friend has ever said to me was "You've been talking about ASOIAF for 20 minutes straight and all I got was Catelyn is Satan and everyone's gonna die because the trees eat people." Oh right, say no to alcohol kids! And an amazing video again guys, I love to have these theories playing in the background when I'm doing my makeup or cooking. Love you!

The book paints a very different picture of Benjen than the GoT adaptation.

Awesome video, I can't wait for part 2.

Excellent vid!! Thank you for putting the work & time you into it ♡

Wasn't there a line where someone remembered how Ned and benjen would get drunk and talk about settling the gift ?

Its never long enough lol i always want it to keep going. Thank y'all for the hard work y'all put into your videos.

Back to basics. Green hand keeps killing it.

You are most likely right about the animousity between Ned and Benjen. It struck me as odd that Benjen was not sitting at the high table himself. Jon may have been seen as a bastard, but Benjen was the true-born brother of the Lord of Winterfell.

I love you guys!!!!! You articulate this stuff so well and voices compliment each other... Great work !!!

Yo, the only videos keeping the game of throne fandom alive

Your videos inspired me to read 'A Song of Ice and Fire' series.Your content is wonderful.

Wow now I have to rethink benjen stark now great video as always

Seems like there's a big difference between the books and show with the relationships. So many differences with most things.

I want part two NOW! Do not kept us waiting too long it.

Awesome video! I need the part 2 D:

This is a great video. As a reader you can get the impression that Benjen is mostly a good but harsh man of the Night's Watch, honoring vows ets. But this picture comes from Jon's point of view. So i love that analyse, showing more to Benjen, that we are let to belive he is.

Ah yes asoiaf a nice break from got

I so needed this right now.

So many good hints that Bronn is Benjen; Cat said he has a wolfish smile, and he’s indulging in women and drink. Love this video

I'm soooo glad to see a theory video of you guys again, in a time where everybody is talking about this crappy last season... and even about that the only thing i'm watching are the nigths watch lives (what a great team).... thank you, now, for 23 minutes i can be truly immersed in george's world again

Well, Benjen should've been close to Lyanna, not only was she the only sibling around, she was also only a year older than him Edit: If this is true Benjen is very good at plotting, I mean he went to Lewyn instead to Ned with the news of Jon's interest in joining the Night's Watch, maybe because he knew Ned wouldn't agree to the whole thing if it came from him, so he told Lewyn knowing the grey rat would tell Cat, and thought Cat had a better chance at convincing Ned because she was his wife, damn, and they say the Starks are not good at schemes and plotting

Finally! I've been waiting for this for a looong time. I can't wait for the show to end so we can go back to weekly book videos. Good work as always :D

Always coming at things from a different unique angle!! Can't wait to see the follow up 💚

I truly enjoy your channel and I appreciate the amount of research you put into your theories.

Thanks for the vid, Ser and Lady. I'll have to watch it later when I'm free from work.

I really love this theory! It gives real depth to Benjen and his motivations and also ties nicely into your Rhaegar/Lyanna in Winterfell theory (and the common theme of pov characters being played and manipulated into acting against their own self-interest). I've been recently binge-watching your theories and I really have to say I love most of them. I didn't think it was possible for me to find completely new ideas and interpretations on a Song which I haven't encountered yet, so thank you for being true to your word. There is only one reoccurring theme within your interpretations I can't grapple with and that is the existence of gods. I already posted this thoughts in an old video by yours but I doubt you are still checking on videos that go more than a year back and I'd really love to hear your thoughts on this: I don't know how much you two read of George besides Thrones, but how George deals with religion and gods is pretty consistent through his stories namely that he concentrates on religion in relation to human beings, how they shape their morals, beliefs and actions and the act of creating religion, which he considers a form of storytelling. Also one has to remember that George himself is an atheist who grew up Catholic but lost his faith when going to college. He has a story called "A Way of Cross and Dragon" which is set in his Sci-Fi A Thousand Worlds universe. It's about an inquisitor for the Catholic Church, who himself has stopped believing his church''s own teaching a long time ago and encounters a newly founded and fastly growing religion worshiping Judas Iskariot. When he finds the founder of the religion this man reveals he himself is not pious at all and he has made up the story of Judas himself. He reveals to be part of a secret order called the "liars" (if I remember correctly) who appearantly have invented most of the great religions in the galaxy and are constantly inventing new religions with stories that are fitting for their respective times. They do this because they believe the universe in itself is meaningless and bleak, which is why the ultimate goal of humanity should be to seek happiness. These stories aka religion are made up by the liars to give people something to believe in and comfort them so they don't have to face to meaningless of life itself and can achieve happiness My point here is that I find it completely unbelievable for George to give our story real gods. George R.R. Martin throughout his writings mostly presents religion with a negative connotation especially as an institution, which is used to conquer, make people compliant and to manipulate them but at the same time gives room for religion to give comfort on an individual level. Gods being essential factors within the story would go against everything George believes in and normally writes about. The story is about the human heart in conflict with itself not supernatural entities. Furthermore, I can't believe the main plot to be simply a fight between the "evil" Great Other and the "good" Lord of the Light. R'hllor followers and priests are maybe the most extreme religious zealots within the story and it just wouldn't fit for their faith to be actually right and their followers to be the "good guys" of the story. While there is definitely a dichotomy between the Old Gods/The Great Other as ice and R'hllor/The Lord of the Light as fire I don't think one will be morally superior to the other especially as the poem by Robert Frost on which the name of the series is based on deals with the destruction of humanity both by ice and fire. Both can lead to death. In addition to this, naming the White Walkers the Great "Others" makes me think of the anthropological concept of the other, which says that human societies while forming an identity, an "us" simultaneously always create a "them", an "other" from which they want to distance themselves from. It would be typical George for the Great Other to not be inherently evil at all, but simply different. And who is the "other" of human society within Westeros but the children of the forrests? So my question is what makes you think gods exist and play a role in the story? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and keep up with what you're doing!

Love your live stream but your theory videos are always so intriguing

Finally! Been missing these! 😍

Thank you! I'd been waiting for a video from you.

Can't remember who suggested me this channel...but now, more than ever I'm in need of some true love for this world. Season 8 is underwhelming to say the least...and I'm afraid that's the only finale I've ever get after more than 20 years waiting. Great and interesting video!

I was wondering if Benjen got sent to the wall because Cat gave Benjen as the name of the person who gossiped the name of Ashara Dayne as Jon's mother,and in that chapter Cat said how after Ned was told,no more gossiping about it was heard again. I figured Cat didn't want Benjen around to ever get in the way of Baby Robb's birthright.

Benjen and Ned NEVER speak with one another during Benjen's Winterfell visit. too strange

This is a really interesting take and I never would have thought about it while reading the books

You guys are the absolute best. My only problem is that I have to wait for the next part ☺️

Great video. It never struck me, until you pointed it out, that Benjen was dressed an awful lot like Waymar Royce. It can't be coincidence. I am less clear why he would lure Jon to the Wall and then desert and leave Jon to fend for himself...

"A very quiet wolf."

Awsome timing. I can watch before work. My sweet clarity.

I like it.... Another fantastic theory... You guys are part of the reason why I started reading the books... Awesome job yet again...

Have to get that music as my ringtone.

Nice return to the books! Thanks guys well done!

Could benjen be disguised as a different character in later books? Sort of like Arthur Dayne disguised as Mance Rayder?

Heard another theory similar to this one, but instead they stated that he felt guilty after the war caused because he knew about his sister (and possibly if she was the laughing tree knight). Since they were probably very close siblings, he kept her secret, and by the time he heard word about the war it was too late and took the black out of guilt.

I love your videos and even though other people shout your theories down I want your reading of things to be true. thanks for an insightful and thought provoking video.

"It should've been you". I don't think even Tywin would say that to Tyrion.

Awesome, can’t wait for part 2!

Your videos are at another level than other fan sites.

You’ve stated in previous videos : “... you probably think we’re crazy ... “ (which is true - for about ten minutes) BUT, ;) I find myself agreeing with most of your theories. And they’re all delicious food for thought. So happy to see you’re back on book theory videos !

Awesome video. I love these parts, that seems so insignificant to the storyline, but actually might be the main story line.

The uncomfortable position of having to answer to his nephew for the rest of his life? You mean like every other uncle of lordlings in the entire story? Not to use this as evidence against your concepts, but the circumstances you describe are incredibly common in Westeros due to Agnatic Primogeniture succession.

Yay! I get so excited for your videos!

Hmmm, I have another idea on why he Benjen pretends to not know what being a bastard means. It's out of character, so the writer can set the rules for his world to the reader as clear as he can. That this separation of Jon and the others usually doesn't happen. That Catelyn doesn't like Jon but Ned is completely okay with him. I also think Benjen never spoke to the maester and never wanted Jon to come to the wall. Jon sent to the wall is purely the maester's doing. This falls in line with the theory that the maester used to be at Riverrun. He is loyal to Catelyn, not Ned. She wanted Jon gone. Benjen really didn't wan't Jon to come along right from the start. Jon probably reminds of Ned and why he was sent to the wall.

"Bastards grow up faster than other children." Wise words from Maester Luwin? Or is a grey rat trying to cover up the truth that Jon is older than Robb? Sorry if you mention it further along in the video. I'm at 5:47 and wanted to mention it before I forgot.

I'm glad book theories are back, can't wait for the show to be over to have more of this. Have you read Joe Magician theory that Benjen may have been kidnap by the WW thinking he was Jon? is a good theory as well.

Omg, the relief 🙄🙈 i needed that... keep going guys... 💋

Great video. Also, didn’t GRRM rule out Benjen being “Coldhands” when asked about it? That would also lend credence to the theory.

You two are true MASTERS when it comes to crafting incredibly interesting and original ASOIAF theories. I mean i knew that Catelyn Tully was trash when i first read the books but once i started watching your videos i actually began to despise her character and I like Roose Bolton way more now, for obvious reasons. This video was a very pleasant surprise, i never thought that Benjen actually hated Jon, but after watching this video all i can say is... Jon never had a chance, Ned failed him when you think about it.

You know what’s a satisfying pallet cleanser from all the trash on tv right now? A well thought out book theory that has the right amount of evidence to be one of the many nuggets George left for us to quibble about

Brilliant! All Benjen was missing was Waymar's sable cloak! Can't wait for the next one.

Yay! Uncle Coldhands!! I love this video and I know in the books Benjen is not Coldhands but I still want to know what happened to the character in the show as well as the books. BUT I love getting back to theory videos on the book material, THANK YOU! :-)

Can’t wait for part 2!

I love listening to you two. So informative and just really entertaining 💖 Keep up the great work

This was amazing OMG I love this theories against mainstream r/asoiaf meta.

So...just started reading the books. Now I see you guys have uploaded a video on the exact chapter I just finished reading...

Can’t wait for the next edition. At this point I’m reading the books from where I left off and watching videos like this and classic Preston Jacobs to remind myself how good this story actually is

Greetings from a listener in Germany. Keep up the good work.

Awsome....perfect to listen to on The drive home. Thanks

It’s awesome to see people are still putting out content like this, amid this tire fire of a season. This takes me back to why I fell in love with this show. This level of depth in the story. Shame it’s all been destroyed.

I woke up this morning thinking how much I missed everyone’s book theories with all the show nonsense going on ❤️ Green Hand always delivers!

Wow! You completely changed my ideas of Benjen! I have some Maester suspicions and kinda thought it was Luwin siding with Cat, and thus lying about what Benjen may have said to him, but missed the fact that as far as we know Ben didn't talk to Ned much at all while at home. I'd also figured it was guilt over his father and brother's death, keeping Lyanna's affair a secret, that led him to the Wall, but Ned sending him is entirely possible. Especially when you pointed out how he really seemed to like the finer things in life, and the circular conversation he led Jon on, which was odd but I wasn't sure how to interpret. Great job on Benjen!! Hope to see more theories on his desertion!

One of your best videos Great job

Awesome job guys. Love it! The first time I read it I thought his response to Jon telling him "you're not my father" seemed pretty odd. "More's the pity" He regretted not being Jon's father? Why?