Stannis sees the war with the Great Other as more important than the Game of Thrones? Well that makes him smarter than Dumb and Dumber by a dozen miles.
Stannis has my sympathies. Who hasn't had a moment when you're playing a game and some smart ass little shit does an illegal move and everyone just finds this to be so hilarious... except you. Then when you don't feel like playing anymore it turns into you being the one with the problem. - Do not pass go. Do not collect Iron Throne.
Or even more accurately when you organize things on the table to make it easier to identity cards and pieces and everyone calls you anal until someone wins by accident because the person who could have won couldn't see the board accurately because everything was disorganized. This happened to me once and it's more accurate to the way Stannis views duty and rightful claims and the law.
"Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day." Donald Noye One of my favorite quotes from the book
People tend to butcher this quote when repeating it. But it has occurred to me; the spirits of the dead seemingly hate iron. Stannis the Mannis who got a plannis
Stannis, chaddest character of ASOIAF : Lord Ramsay is the one Your Grace should fear. I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him? You do not know him. No more than he knows me.
Sounds cool but he's dismissing information that may be of use to him before hearing it out of pride. Good example of his flaws, imo. He should have asked what Theon knows about Ramsey that makes him so worried. He only keeps Theon around for intel on Ramsey and Roose. He might find out it's just Ramsey's sheer cruelty which drove Theon half insane but he might also learn something about how Ramsey makes decisions or how he is tricky, intimidating and ruthless as well as oversensitive and quick to anger. One of the running themes of Stannis is how caught up he is in his own self-image and in his resentment. You can see how the stories he tells himself about himself prevent him from seeing the world around him with clarity. Why on earth is he trying to explain to Theon how cool he is? Theon doesn't care and Stannis doesn't care about Theon's opinion of him. It's because for all his capable leadership and nominal commitment to honor and right he's also a fragile windbag.
Where were the other Kings and Queens and The Lord Commander died? Where were they when the Westfold fell? Where were when The Wall was alone and called for aid during a desperate siege? Stannis Baratheon answered the call. He came to their aid. He saved them and helped make piece between Wildling and Nights Watchmen alike. He came to the aid of The North when they were being oppressed by The Boltons and Greyjoys.
Except Shireen would be the next in line after Stannis, in your scenario, as his daughter would come before Renly in succession. While this is all speculation, Renly wouldn't likely have accepted such a position, given Renly's obvious ego.
@Gr8sc0tt Selyse isn't barren. She is unattractive and cold women and has a cold relationship with her husband. Stannis beds her once or twice a year, according to those who knows them , even Jon Snow who who met them only recently understands this. When Selyse complains that Stannis won't hear her when she asked him to marry her again but in R'hllor customs believing it is because of some curse caused by Robert bedding delena on their Wedding bed on the wedding night that fails from having more children and marrying again would wash this curse out, Jon thinks to himself that "first he has to come to your bed".
@owenshebbeare2999 we have no reason to believe stannis would lie if he told renly that he would be his heir then he meant it stannis is many things but he is not a liar
Stannis may be an interesting character, but character development he has little to none throughout the series. That's not a bad thing in itself. The fact is Stannis remains the same person from Cressen's Prologue to The Winds of Winter. Character development implies one's story changing one's identity in some way. Jaime has character development, and not just because he is a POV character; ASoIaF Jaime is a different person to ADoD/AFfC Jaime
Actually, all his bannerman answered his call, all houses sworn to Dragonstone went for Stannis. The stormlords were sworn to Storm's End and Renly, not to Stannis (and even so, some went for his cause).
@@BlackHand531 these are probably much more work than the live streams, and having a diverse bit of content is important. But these vids are definitely what originally caught my ear
I was rewatching the first video in the Stannis series and wondering when's the next video, when I got the notification. You'll be knighted for this but also losing your fingers for making us wait so long. A good act does not wash the bad.
Rightful King of the Andals and the Rhoynar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm, The One Who Brings The Dawn, Carrier of Lightbringer, The Prince That Was Promised, Azor Ahai come again, The Flame of R'hollor and The Liberator of The North
Its not like stannis didn't try to offer renly a chance to make common cause; he offered to pardon him and name him his heir despite his betrayal, its the spoiled brat who brought his own doom on himself by spitting on the face of the brother who subsequently raised him.
GRRM places a heavy emphasis on house words, and one could expect Stannis to take his family's house words as writ. "Ours is the fury". In Stannis's mind, Ned Stark has twice "usurped" his place as Robert's closest brother...first in their friendship and then in the hand of the king slight. It would be very Stannis to abandon Ned Stark to his own fate in king's landing as justified since he tried to be "the brother" of the king when that was Stannis's role and for Stannis to prepare for what he knew would be the inevitable outcome. I think Stannis, who might have respected Ned's values very much resented him for "usurping" his own place. So, calling Rob Stark a usurper might also be his vendetta against Ned being a "usurper". We know that no one in George's novels are all good or all bad. Stannis's ability to hold a grudge is one of his more obvious flaws.
Stannis acts so entitled. No one owes him or us or anyone nothing 😂. He too grown to feel that way lol. He’s mad at Ned bcuz the king picked him. No duh, no one ever picks u stannis and he never seems to get the picture. Quit being a hater and a hypocrite. Quit acting better than everyone else when you’re fundamentally flawed like everyone is. He lacks compassion and mercy and therefore never possesses understanding. Robert was strong and and powerful but also had compassion and mercy. Those are god like qualities by themselves. Robert pardoned people he beat down. Meanwhile stannis punishes people who save him and his family’s life! 😂 no one’s gonna pick u when you’re living like that. I would absolutely think ur gonna set me up for failure or backstab me (which he does). And if he was doing this kinda stuff grown he probably did it younger too and set a reputation for himself. He was probably the kinda guy who calls the police on bcuz he smelled weed in ur car, but the only reason he smelled the weed is bcuz u stopped to help him when he broke down on the side of the road 😂.
I just want to see Stannis have control over fighting the battle for the long night, and Randyl Tarly run the tactics. Westeros OP battle commander dream team.
All of these people on opposite sides, and warring families brought together for the only fight that matters. That's what it is has all been about from the very first word.
Your videos has blown my freaking mind! U guys dive deep and I freaking love it! I’ve watched every single one of your videos and will continue to do so! Thank u!!
I feel like there’s no reason to theorise why Stannis left kings landing it’s pretty self explanatory. He wasn’t suicidal. He didn’t have the men or resources to stay in the capitol without being in danger especially once Jon Arryn one of the most powerful men in the kingdom had been murdered. His personal forces wouldn’t have been a match for the Lannister soldiers, the gold cloaks and the kingsguard and he didn’t have the allies necessary to swing the odds in his favour. His choices were retreat and gather loyal supporters or die.
One note: Melisandre using the shadow to kill Renly seems to have been a rogue operation. Stannis' plan to beat Renly seemed to involve drawing Lightbringer as Renly's knights charged into the rising sun, blinding them. He likely did not believe Mel's claims that she could kill Renly for him, and agreed to the Penrose hit after this demonstration of concept
Stannis! I fear for his destiny in the books, he's one of my favorite characters! Every time I remember that stupid "Jon Snow tricked me into fighting his war" line said by Daenerys on the show I remember as well how Stannis understood the importance of this same war. Stannis the true King who understood that ruling is more a duty-curse than a right-blessing!
I fucking love this video, because Stannis the Mannis is the best and most underrated character in the series. It blows my mind that he's described as being basically the same age as I am , 33 or 34.
Oh my gosh!!! I step away from my computer for an hour and the moment we have been waiting for arrives. Stannis the Menace brought to us by The Order of the Green Hand, the best ASOIAF discussion on the internet!! Woo Hoo Hooray Hooray!.
OMG my week just started after a lot of drama last week and I know it will be amazing bc you guys are back! You guys rock! And so does the only true King, Stannis !
When I got the alert that Greenhand just dropped a new video, I couldn’t wait to get off to watch this! Welcome back to the theory game, excited for what’s next.
Well, yes and no. I don't blame Edmure, it was his duty to protect his people from Tywin Lannister. If anything, Stannis' loss was Greatjon Umber's fault for wanting an independent North. It was also Ned's fault for not sending his daughters to Dragonstone when he had the chance.
I was just thinking of stannis and his idiot brother renly who even in death ruined the house. Can't wait for the barristan video. Starting out asoiaf renly seemed ok and stannis I didn't hate just kept off thought but looking through it again. Renly is so terrible as a ruler and such. A flower and the best insult ever was calling him bronze being worthless. But yeah stannis is trying to do good for the realm with all the off page things he does yet gets no recognition for it and that's pretty realistic being the middle child so good work George. But yeah the fanbase who don't understand look down on stannis who did more than any Character in war in land sea and if they had planes air. Tywin Ned Jon Rob all see stannis as the man needed to either deal with or support
You call Renley a PoS, but keep in mind that the Tyrell took advantage of his for Loras. Love will make you do stupid things, and don't forget that he originally want Robert to leave Cersei and make Margaery his new queen, before marrying her himself.
I honestly think Stannis was pissed. Very very pissed when Ned was offered Hand. I mean...he says it. He decided, "good luck with this mess Robert. I'll be getting ready to do whatever I need to take my place when the time comes. No way you and Ned Stark come out of this one very easily." Stannis is also a master battle commander. He knew what was going to happen to the throne and the realm if anyone found out about Cersie and Jamie. He also knew Jamie and Cersie would have him killed if he stayed and revealed the truth about them. That would be like jumping into a cobra pit to clean it out. Best to leave. Gather strength. Gather it fast because even an idiot knows you are up to something when you just leave right in the middle of something very important that almost specifically needs you to sort it out. As far as Mel thinking he's Azor Ahai...well you need help. You need it now. There is no time to waste. No one likes you much and it won't be long until shit hits the fan and you are facing Tywin Lannister. The only man in the realm you are really scared of. Why not let an obviously magical and powerful sorcerer spread rumors that you basically a God? Stannis always comes off like he's just going through the motions when he's doing all that Light Bringer crap. He's just like "yeah whatever. I have a cool sword I guess. A blind guy wants to see it? Yeah sure. Whatever. Here you go." Stannis is a horrible liar.
Great video! Keep up the great work! Thank you. I hope to see more soon. You have convinced me that Stannis is an interesting character not just a fanatic with too big ego.
Hey this is a great analysis. I think you are right on about a lot of this, such as it really being more about the slight of Renly going over his head that was more important than him being king. However, I think I have a lot to add to this conversation on Stannis and Renly and have gone so far as to launch a channel just to do so 😅. I hope you'll take a look!
I discovered your channel a year ago, today. I had discovered that RLJ was false as Joffrey, and I needed an independent confirmation. Thank you two for being that source.
You guys make a compelling case for why fear wouldn't have driven Stannis out of King's Landing. This may not answer all the questions, but the explanation I came up with is that Stannis left because that was always the plan. In AGOT, Maester Colemon reveals to Catelyn that Jon Arryn was planning to have Sweet Robin fostered by Stannis at Dragonstone. Ned discovered the same information- that Jon was arranging for Stannis to foster Sweet Robin- while he traced Jon Arryn's final movements in the days proceeding his death. Ned also learned that Jon was having clandestine meetings with Stannis. Now, it sounds to me like once Jon Arryn learned the truth about Cersei's children, he not only feared for his own life, but Sweet Robin's as well. As Hand, Jon was tethered in King's Landing but Stannis, the Master of Ships/Lord of Dragonstone, could leave whenever he pleased. So, Jon arranged for Stannis to take Sweet Robin to safety under the guise of fostering so as not to tip their hand about their discovery. It also didn't hurt that this arrangement would finally separate Sweet Robin from Lysa, which we know was one of Jon's paramount concerns. Just so, after his son was safely secured at Dragonstone w/Stannis, Jon would bring their information to King Robert. Now once Jon died and Lysa fled w/Sweet Robin, I could only assume that Stannis simply adhered to the plan and left. The reasons you gave are likely factors as well; in fact I'd argue Sweet Robin's return to the safety of the Eyrie freed Stannis and enabled him to focus on the Wars to come. Which per his own admission were the only wars that mattered. I'm sure this doesn't answer all the questions but it's the best I got🤷♀️. I should note that there was some questions about the fostering, but I think Littlefinger exploited Lysa's paranoia and lied to her about who Jon was arranging to foster Sweet Robin with to make her desperate enough to kill her husband. And to lend credence to his claims, Littlefinger privately encouraged King Robert to support fostering Sweet Robin w/Tywin, so Robert publicly advocated for that arrangement. Which again would make Lysa more fearful and thus willing to do Littlefinger's bidding to stop her husband. This would explain why Lysa told Cat that Jon was planning to foster SR w/Tywin without Lysa's consent. Jon Arryn couldn't dispute it either because doing so would require him to expose he and Stannis's plan, and thus the truth they'd discovered, before they were ready. All he could do was vaguely argue w/Robert and Lysa, which we know he did, courtesy of Ned's investigation.
Great video guys!! I've always loved your format and setup. Stannis, like so many of our other "honorable" characters, has certain characteristics that serve him well but he is such a hard ass "buzz kill" of a man, that he just doesn't inspire the love that he so desperately wants. I love the story of his bird Proud wing and how that relates to his embrace of R'hllor . This decision seems to be out of necessity. But this "devotion" to this mysterious deity is gonna ultimately be his downfall. He will survive and win the battle for Winterfell but the burning sacrifice of his daughter will be the final straw for his followers I'm afraid. See you guys soon...
I think the boldest thing Stannis ever did (or is doing in the books) is marching against the Boltons and the whole north, if the Boltons don't outright terrify you, then nothing will in the World of Ice and Fire, not to mention facing Euron and Victarion at sea.
Man I'm a big fan of Bobby b but I've been telling people for years is that Stannis is the true steal. I mean when Robbert's got his sights on something he won't bend. Like Lyanna and killing Danny (and yeah he changed his mind on Danny but he was on his death bed=broken) Stannis is a lot more flexible then readers think IMO..
