Keep in mind that up until recently, even the night's watch men didn't believe in the existence of the others. So if craster helped them in some earlier battle or saved a lord commander in the past, that could be reason to title him friend of the watch. so in prior years, you know he kills is babies, but to you (who doesn't believe in others) giving him to the cold just means freezing him to death. Which is just a dead wildling to the watch.
I don't know, the rangers seem to believe in the Others. Its the stewards and the builders that don't. We don't actually get to know many rangers, because Jon and Sam don't. But the few experienced rangers we do hear about seem to take the others seriously.
This might be an instance of the show distorting our reasoning. We saw in the show that the baby turned into an other, but not in the books and there's no reason to think the characters would put this together at that point. In terms of Craster just being an evil dude, he's probably not alone among wildlings. We saw in Bran's vision a human sacrifice to a weirwood so it's plausible that this ritual is still performed north of the wall and incest is surprisingly common in the GOT universe.
Crastor was never killed by the women because he kept them "safe". Abuse victims, which his wives were, often have difficulty breaking free. They killed mutineers because, tropey as it is, killing Crastor freed them. Wildlings probably used Crastor the same as the Watch. Those that hated him probably feared the Others more. Crows that were hostile were probably discreetly killed. As for wight animals, there are plenty of uses. For dogs, combat has frequently been used as a way of taking advantage of a canine's speed and natural bites. Along with that, they could theoretically be used as good scouts. Sheep are decoys. You wight a sheep, slap a bell on it, and set it loose near a wildling camp. I'd imagine you could easily get two or three wights out of those hunters who would go after the free mutton.
I never looked at the mutiny as a good thing because of the rape that followed. But I think just from a Night's Watch perspective, we run into the same problems here as Jon pointed out to Sam. The Night's Watch does not rescue wildlings. If we take these women back to the Wall, then what? Part of the discontent with Jon's leadership is because he was allowing wildlings to come to the Wall. The Night's Watch has become a ignorant, misogynistic boy's club. Jon puts the spears wives in a keep and the men of the Watch start calling it "whore's tower" or whatever. I think we've seen that Bowen Marsh was not alone in his thinking that wildlings were savage enemies. A lot of the men probably didn't care that Crastor was killing his sons because it meant less wildlings. And we have to remember that while the wildlings seem to have known about the Others for a while, the Watch is still just figuring it out. They all knew Crastor was "giving his sons to the cold gods" but I doubt they were like "oh so he's helping these evil ice elves". They probably thought the babies were just dying of exposure in some barbaric ritualistic sacrifice. And now that they know that the cold gods are real they still haven't even realized the possibility that the babies are being turned not just killed. Only Crastor's wives seem to know the truth and they only told Sam and Jon. The rangers don't or aren't supposed to just kill whoever they want. They'd need the Lord Commander's permission to kill Crastor and I think Lord Mormont made an uneasy choice to leave Crastor alone. I don't think we know enough about wildling culture to say for sure that they would have been cool with the Watch murdering Crastor. It's probably why they never bothered with him even though they all seem to hate him. Crastor is on his land and these are his children. A man gets what he can take and keeps what he can defend. They all hate the Thenns but they don't gang up and stop them from eating people. Are the free folk really free once they start policing each other like that? Idk this one is a good one. It's complicated.
I think it was about giving the others spoiled gifts, those kids are inbreed who chances are they are not healthy, rather then taking good kids the others will only take those from Craster.
I think you're explanation is probably the best. I don't think Mormont and the rangers know the true extent of what Craster is doing because if they did it would be irrational for them to allow to continue. But even before that Craster has no reason to be left alive. Its weird
In the books, the Thenns were more civilized than most of the other wildlings and had a military bronze trade culture set up. Jon Snow and Stannis Baratheon arranged a marriage between their Magyar and one of the Northern noble houses. The show portrayed them as savage cannibals.
As for the mutiny, I think we are being trolled by GRRM with the see with our eyes trope. Why is the mutiny bad? Because Jeor Mormont is good and the legend of gin alley is a bad guy? Is it inconceivable that saintly Jeor Mormont was protecting a monster who married a close relative and raped his own daughters and sacrificed his sons, and Switchblade Carl did a good thing by killing him? And the truth is that those guys were already rapists, have we forgotten about the guy sent to the Wall with the star tattoos? They didn't turn nice when they took the black. The mutiny was a good deed, the rape that ensued after was not. Think of it as a mini sack of Kings Landing.
How do *we* know the babies are being turned out there? I seem to remember something like that happening in a TV show that ended up being crap, but I can't recall that specifically happening in the great book series ASOIAF. Mind you, I think it might well be what is happening -- the babies being turned. But maybe not... and what happens then with the babies? Are they nursed back in some icy city... by whom?
Maybe they accepted the sheep, dog, etc. as an acknowledgement that Cranster was willing to give up something valuable to the others when he had no sons in exchange for his life?
It could be a symbolic gift and also a punishment - less food for next winter if he doesn't try harder next time to get more kids ready. And yeah, I like the idea of blood magic more than the Others being "made of kids". GRRM based the Others and the Children of the Forest on the Seelie and Unseelie - Summer and winter elves basically. That doesn't mean that the Others can't be humans originally, but it doesn't sit right with me for some reason.
Well my take is this: For the years before we see craster in the story he's been providing limited food and shelter to the night's watch. If it suits him he'll give true information sometimes too. His group has the skills to keep themselves relatively well fed beyond the wall. At this time the night's watch do not believe in the others. They think of them as an ancient night's watch legend (at least most of them). Everybody throughout the first book refers to the wildlings as the night's watch's enemy. As far as the night's watch is concerned he's the closest thing to an ally they could get out there. The night's watch is in large part made up of rapists and murderers. If they took it upon themselves to kill every rapist or murderer they would have to lose half of their men too. Also, to kill Craster, a known "friend" of the watch, would make it impossible to find aid beyond the wall for a very long time. There's no way the free folk wouldn't find out, gossip spreads like plague, it would mark them as exactly the kind of scum that most free folk already think the night's watch are. Clearly most of the men are deeply unhappy with having no choice but to stay with Craster. It's a case of naiveté towards the others and having dire need. Also a feeling that the laws of westeros don't apply beyond the wall, their job is to protect the wall, not serve justice to a people beyond control.
Yeah that all makes sense to me, but if Mormont and Maester Aemon knew the Others were a threat would they be so keen on keeping Craster around? It seems that several people in the Watch - Benjen, Half-hand, Mormont etc suspect that both the Others and the Children of the Forest are on the move again. That's the one thing that makes it seem strange to me that Craster was left to his own devices.
@@rebornstillborn Craster is known to be sensitive to bastard subject. They said he hated bastards in general, he hated Jon Snow specifically, and he exploded after being called a bastard himself, which led to him attacking the brothers of the Night's Watch and being killed. However, people are called bastards when their parent was highborn. Mormont seems to have more reasons to let him live, beyond those reasons that he repeats to the brothers of the Watch. Might be Craster is some Mormont bastard and that would make it impossible for the Old Bear to kill him, being his own blood.
I think a child sacrifice was always a part of the Night's Watch, as is evident by the Nightfort, Black Gate, Night's King, Snowgate (or Bastard Gate). When Alysanne shut all that down, they had to move the operation north. I think child sacrifice is part of the agreement with the Others that ended the first war.
Which would get sacked and burned by some Wildling bands in an instant... you know, they hate the Crows, see them as invaders & occupants to their lands anyways... they cannot be stopped by a frickin ice wall to climb south and pillage for a few goods... a wooden outpost would be a just a present of goods do them to steal! The Watch hadn‘t enough men to actually man more then 3 castles and patrol the wall and cut the wood in front of the wall... how would they man and hold an outpost 9 days away from reinforcements? That’s strategically and logistically impossible, even madness
Preston J had a video about the matter, in short Craster is giving the others cursed gifts, those kids are from repeated incest so they will not turn out OK, the others don;t take children from the wildling only from Craster which sounds like a good deal for the tribes. I think there was a pact with the NW and Craster who has special blood, the others only want children with certain bloodlines, Craster is the only one who provides it.
Yeah, I seem to remember that video as well. Genetic warfare basically. The Others who are made from Craster are weaker because of both incest and Craster having a faulty version of the desirable gene. That would probably mean that unless he is descended from the Thenns god-king or the Kingsblood wildlings he is probably a descendent of the Starks.
@@rebornstillborn That's what I was thinking. Either a Mormont or a Stark bastard. The Old Bear might have known about it and felt it impossible to raise a hand to him.
The Nights Watch don't randomly kill wildlings! They not even kill a wildling when its the first time he try to cross the wall. They cut the ears of as punishment only by the second attempt they kill. The Rangers only hunt wildlings that have attacked nights watch members. They even trade goods with "friendly" wildlings. And other wildlings help the watch. Exemple given, they helped Mance when he was injured.
I think the sacrifices he made kept the others satisfied for many years, so there were probably a lot of wildlings making that kind of sacrifice, but something happened, maybe the comet, maybe the birth of Jon... and now the others don't. feel satisfied only with the sacrifices of any human and are heading south in search of king's blood
Oh my God, now that I think of it, it totally makes sense for many other wildlings out there to sacrifice babies to the cold gods. And if that's so, maybe Mance knew that, too. And his plan to take all people south of the Wall is not only about saving them, not only about denying the ice army more soldiers, but also denying them more officers, which takes it to yet another level of urgency.
JRRM likes his names to have double meanings. I always took Crassters keep as both a castle, and the place where the peace /pact with the others is kept. The fact that it's such a poor castle, makes me think the name has to have a bigger meaning, it doesn't need walls if it offers a different kind of protection.
Why wasn't Craster killed? The same reason Dany never was: powerful allies. If the Nights Watch killed him, they loose one of their precious few allies north of the wall and Mormont seems to know it would provoke the Others. If the Wildlings killed him, the Nights Watch or worse the Others would retaliate. The Wildlings have never stopped fearing the Others, and Craster has done everything possible to be associated with them. The six Others who killed the Wildlings and then the Rangers in the prologue, were an elite level fighting team. They eliminated two parties of experienced fighters apparently without injury. They toyed with Ser Waymar Royce who was young but had all the training a lord could provide for his children. This was clearly not their first fight, not by a long shot, and I'm assuming that the Wildlings had taken notice of the aftermath of whatever they did to become such an efficient, disciplined, and well organized fighting team. If we assume the Others really are the sons of Craster who appears to be at least 60, his sons could have been of fighting age for the last 30 years. Possibly for all of Crasters life if the Others are not literally his boys. Whatever the actuality, the Others have clearly been in the area of Crasters Keep for several generations. Mance spent the last 10 to 12 years uniting the Wildlings in response to the Others, he very well may have first seen evidence of them while ranging in the area. I'm getting into the weeds here with assumptions, so suffice it to say that, north of the wall a man keeps what he can take, and continues to hold what he can defend. Craster's defenses is his reputation of being a godly man, who seems to have the Others living in his back yard.
In that line of thinking, it's quite possible the keep is magically protected in a similar way to Bloodraven's cave. The guy has given massive sacrifices, not only his sons but also his livestock, all of it. It might be religious fervor, but it seems to me like Craster would want something in return, but he isn't rich, immortal, a great chief. It could be bribes to keep the others away, but he has been doing it for decades, far before the wildlings started to seriously worry about it. The last thing I can figure is buying protection, magical protection, to live his monstrous lifestyle in peace. The main issue with this idea is he was killed in a very mundane way. Maybe he was late on his bills.
@@anthonylaviale3021 If he was "playing all 3 sides" then the death is perfectly fitting. The new kids didn't know the game and acted unpredictably, and in response to some of his dark duplicates actions appeasing one of the other factions. Reputation only goes so far with new people.
But it doesn't seem to be Crasters death that provokes the Others, they are already gathering their strength and pushing into the lands of the wildlings for whatever reason. And Waymar Royce was mysteriously sent to the wall and given a leader position as a ranger to go investigate north of the wall. That makes me think that the Others were already on the move for a long time before Crasters death and other parties besides the wildlings themselves were aware of this fact.
Maybe Craster is a “friend” of the Night Watch because his house is on top of the entrance of the tunnel system underneath Westeros. The Kings-Beyond-the-Wall Gendel and Gorne used the labyrinth to go underneath the Wall to attack the North.
@@Theodosius_fan cause it’s logistically and strategically not possible to supply the place this far away! They cannot even man more then 3 castles by patrol the wall in an efficient way
Is it just me or are there fucking caves and tunnels and crypts and labyrinths all over Westeros? Makes you wonder what's down there in the deepest caverns.
@@rebornstillborn yeah, i personally believe that they were made by man during the first long night, which would explain how some humans and even azor ahai survived the cold that old nan said that men even froze within their castles. Maybe all the caverns below westeros are all connected, it would explain how azor ahai ended the long night by possibly using these caverns to get past the hundreds of thousands of undead to end the long night. If you dig a deep enough cavern, doesnt matter how cold it gets above ground, the temperature wont drop. Wether or not these caverns are connected is true or not, hopefully we'll see.
The only thing that makes sense to me is Craster has such confidence in his relationship with the Others that he isn't even afraid of present threats. He must be absolutely confident that the Others have his back as to take no other precautions. He seems convinced the others will intervene even if he is surrounded in his own hall. Do we really know what the Others do with the children for sure?
Yeah, he is a bit like a Littlefinger in that sense. He figures he has got it all planned out, and knows that if anybody makes a move against him they will lose too much for it to be worth it. What he didn't count on was a lunatic criminal forced in the Nights Watch who knew nothing of the deals Craster had made to go apeshit on him. Preston Jacob also has a video where he indicates that somebody with greensight or other magical abilities pushed the Nights Watchmen into killing him.
Craster = Night’s King. Confirmed. Jokes aside, speculating without settling on an actual theory has become far more enjoyable than trying to pin something down and waiting for confirmation at this point. These conversations on these videos are great!
I’m convinced Craster’s family is perceived as the sacrificial lambs. Those babies (and animals) are what keeps the Others away from everyone else. The Night’s Watch and Wildlings don’t have to worry about the Others coming for them.
Actually that makes alot of sense, what's strange is how an entire species (thousands or hundreds of thousands of white walkers) could survive with only one source of reproduction. The human race certainly could live on like that.
Remember that there's actually allusions to the Watch and the North themselves having sacrificed people to the Others. It's a nice "clean hands" situation for them to have someone like Craster doing that for them.
@@KingSlayer_. if the others are anything like elves... or really „slept“ for generations (ordered in stasis), that can also explain a lot and how they survived that long!
The sheep and dogs are definitely for sacrifice. I don't know if it's for blood sacrifice to a weirwood, or if it is as some sort of food for the children they're taking though. Just because the show showed us a way that the babies were transformed doesn't mean the books follow that in any capacity.
a couple points: Crastor's sacraficing to the others is, as far as the watch knows, just him leaving his babies out to die. No reason to suspect the kids become others from their perspective. So thats the watch covered for why hes still alive. As for the wildlings, if crastor is passing info to the rangers you can bet money hes passing even more info to the wildlings. After all if youre willing to aid the guys who keep you locked in a frozen wasteland why wouldnt you help the people nearby even more? Crastor's continued existence only makes sense if you assume hes playing both sides. The wildlings may not even know all the details about his sacrafices. Do we know any examples of wildlings who know what hes up to? because theyre probably assuming hes sending his sons south of the wall at worst, or just killing them to maintain his own position as the male head of his weird family.
When I first read this part of the book I took it as more "the nights watch isnt what it used to be" Why do the rangers let craster make his inbred babies? Because they dont care
Everything you're saying is correct! But Remember 1 thing!! Up until the prologue of AGOT no one has seen an Other in 3,000 years. So there is no reason to flip out on Craster because he essentially isn't doing "anything wrong". Now why Mance and the wildlings don't execute him for being a safe harbor for the watch? I couldn't tell you. Remember Ned executes Gareded and essentially doesn't believe him. When Ned gets coerced into sending Jon to the wall, he never has any remorse about it because Ned Stark a pragmatic man doesn't believe in Grumpkins and Snarks.
Craster, Northumberland says the name comes from the Anglo-Saxon Crawe Caestre which means “crow camp”. Craster is famous for making cold-smoked fish which is prepared by a group of Scottish fishwives who live in very modest accommodations. Found that fitting. Is it possible Craster had a dad who did the same thing…and kept one boy to keep it going? 🤷♀️
The only thing I can think of, that the Others do with the sheep and dogs is that they use them for recon. They wight them, then send them into a village to get a general idea of numbers and layout.
Ygritte says he's cursed, and folklore is full of monsters that demand children in payment for a deal. I think Gilly's son would have been Craster's last son even if he hadn't been killed in the mutiny. Craster was old, his fertility may have finally been declining. If whatever pact or curse he was under hinged on his ability to father sons, then it would stand to reason that not being able to have children would count as breaking the deal. He died immediately after Gilly's son was born, it might have been the same day, and I don't think that's a coincidence. The curse might be something like, "When your final son draws his first breath, you shall draw your last". With that in mind, Craster sacrifices the boys to free up the mothers for another round and keeps the daughters as replacements. His life hinges on putting off his final son for as long as he can. He knows he has nothing to worry about until then, so he acts like an asshole to everyone he meets and lives like a king. People might be compelled not to try to kill him, or someone tried and found out they couldn't. It's also interesting to note that the men who killed Craster were then killed by Coldhands and the ravens not long after.
I think remember hearing that whether human or animal, that bodies are turned into paste. Perhaps it’s fed to the Weirwood itself, fed to Bloodraven or Bran or the other Children connected to the Weirwood roots (if the theory that the White Walkers are in alliance with the Children). Unlike in the show where the Night King simply touched babies and they immediately turned to White Walkers, I think it’s more horrific in the books and they too turn to paste. And so maybe it’s the same for animals that Craster offers.
It a land where the nights watch has no friends, no jurisdiction, no food , no shelter, allowing him to live at least provided them with a roof and some food. Plus its clear crasters offering held the "others" at bay. They marched on the wall apon his death
Preston jacobs has aninteresting theory on this topic: The others need babies with specific genes which craster has, but the nights watch knows that his genes are actually somehow producing inferior others (I watched his videos on this a long time ago sorry). It is the best theory on this that I have heard, but I doubt that it is true just because it is to complicated
The Others are a different species of people who lost the ability to reproduce. So they are dependent on children who are given to them. GRR Martin wrote about these subjects before. Not too complicated at all I would think.
Prestons ideas are fascinating and often filled with details, so I get that it's hard to explain fully. I think genetics play a bigger part than the story has shown us but it might be something that is left unsaid and never confirmed. Don't think GRRM would come out and have a character say "oh, and the Others need kids to reproduce so we fed them defective DNA".
Craster’s mother started this ritual sacrificing of babies, she bred with her own son to make more. Craster killed his mother after a time, and took over the place- keeping the traditions. I think they are allowed to do this because Queen Alysanne forbade the Lord’s first night’s right, which meant the number of babies given to the Others through the Night Fort decreased, and this must have been an essential part of the Pact that finished the War for the Dawn. The only person maintaining this ancient Night’s Watch tradition is Craster. A tradition that once used to give noble blood (bastard babies) of the first men to the Others, for centuries on end. All the Night’s King legends also feed this idea. There’s also an interesting parallel to pig meat and human flesh taste/smell in his chapters. Then again, there are no pigs left at Craster’s, but he does have sausages made out of pig. This cannibalism-sacrificing if babies stuff is all connected in the legends if the North.
Yeah, that might very well be the thing that is starting the Long Night again. I've heard of that theory and it is a good one, especially with the strange door under the Night Fort. Not sure why the Others decided to start moving in before Craster died though, the pact was still being upheld then? One thing that not many consider is that the Others are the ones breaking the pact, which ends up killing Craster which means no more babies for them. It seems like the human thing to do, and GRRMs monsters are often very human.
Personally when I first heard his name, I thought spellcaster. He lives alone in a dangerous location surrounded by enemies, yet somehow he manages to survive and live well for himself. Despite Jon and Sam with strong moral codes know the type of man he is, the same phrase pops up their heads and cancels out all doubts. Either they are enchanted or he whispers to them in their dreams while sleeping in his house. Hence why he allows the Night's Watch to stay his place on long rangings. Plus the part you mentioned where he suddenly moves faster than what he appeared for his age stands out as well. I suspect Craster is a mage either worshipping the cold gods or hoping to gain knowledge from these old ones by offering his kids as sacrifices in exchange for dark knowledge or power. The blood of a wizard would be a valuable commodity to these old gods.
I expect the „moving unexpectedly fast“ is just figurative speech that they just underestimate him because of his age and physical appearance! That hasn’t to mean something supernatural/magical... read such phrases a hell of a lot in other fantasy and it always meant the same... the guy/girl got just underestimated by the POV character! There isn‘t some hidden message beneath every second phrase in these books 😉 Besides, in the end, it didn‘t really help him, did it? No supernatural abilities when he gets killed... just an old man getting his throat slit open
@@michelmorio8026 To add to your point, it's Sam who is the POV. Sam is not a warrior, and is not used to the speed of a well trained and honed warrior. Sure he's seen Jon fight but Jon is still a child, who hadn't gotten his full strength and power yet. And Jon still kicks most people in the Watch's ass. So ya it's easy for Sam to underestimate just how fast Craster is. If it was Jon's pov or Mormont's then it'd be impressive. But it's Sam...
The night's watch upper brass is definitely into the whole child sacrifice including Benjen, it might be a mutually beneficial arrangements, ofc Craster's children get a really bad deal out of it especially his daughter-wives. We get a parallel to the story of the night king who got a strange pale wife in the wall and he was the king of the wall while breaking his vows for a long time until he started sacrificing his children, who might have been his incest children... I think the others are looking for incest children so they can manifest some atavistic traits for the sacrifices common ancestry and the night's watch couldn't tolerate the night king because his ancestry was good for the others while Craster's is not so they allow it. Kinda like making a deal but supplying a poison pill instead. Although I really don't think the others really feel any effect from inbreeding, also iirc there's a few lines I think from Ygritte where she talks about how Craster ancestry is from south of the wall or something like that. So I took it to mean Craster ancestry is no good while Jon is... It might be the reason why they made it a point to kill Ygritte later since there was a fairly decent chance she was pregnant with Jon's child. Lastly something I saw in the Preston Jacobs RU-vid about Dany Flint who maybe had super special genes like the northern equivalent of a dragon hatcher and that's why they killed her and made her an example bc her progeny was guaranteed to bring disaster if it felt into the hands of the others... Not sure why to make of it but it's interesting. The other Dany we know is certainly very special.
It always seemed kinda obvious to me that Craster/his bloodline are part of a truce between mankind and Others. The Others stay north of the wall, as long as they get provided with baby boys every once in a while. And maybe Craster is a descendant of the person who was made out to provide the babys.
Also Mormont seemed upset when they made a move to kill Craster so I’m wondering if he was the reason that they the others weren’t trying to move past the wall until after he was dead maybe he was holding them at bay
The books state Craster’s father is a man of the nights watch from castle black and his mother a woman from white tree. I believe his father is Maester Aemon and this is the reason Aemon almost forsook his vows. As a Targaryan his blood is special that’s why he marries his daughters and gives his sons to the others, for some reason they require Targaryan blood. And …. Crasters last son (little Sam) is the Prince who was promised…
You answered it yourself. Peace is achieved by giving kin to become an Other. Whereby they are all kin. The Wildlings most likely feared Craster because of his alliance with the Others.
I think you may be underestimating how valuable shelter is in the far North. It’s very ASOIAF to have the characters tolerate a seemingly “lesser evil” in the hopes it will prevent a larger one - but of course, they’ll be wrong in the end. I think they tolerate Craster for the sole purpose stated - they need the shelter & they have bigger fish to fry than Craster. It’s like when the police have info on a lesser drug dealer but they’re going for the big fish - the drug dealer at the top. So they tolerate and let the little guy build a case and then try to flip him to their side. the NW tolerates Craster because they believe he is a necessary evil in their quest to monitor the Others.
I have a partial answer, at one stage someone comments that Craster is the only Wildling within a hundred miles. Now close to the wall a lot of the Wildlings would cooperate at least sometimes with the Watch. So most places Craster wouldn't be that valuable, there would be other people you could cooperate with, but where he is he's the only source of information and supplies. So he's more valuable than he otherwise would be. BUT! Why is he the only Wildling within 100 miles? Doesn't that strike you as extremely odd? I know the population density is low but 20 people in a 100 mile radius is 1 person per 1,550 square miles. The population of Greenland in the middle ages was about 55,000 (45K Inuit, 10K Scandinavian) in 836K square miles or about 1 person per 15.2 square miles. Bear in mind Greenland is mostly Glacier so if anything it's LESS friendly that Craster's area. So something either killed or scared away everyone but him. Now something that big would be talked about, and we know people talk about how Craster does all this bizarre stuff, including sacrifice to old gods. So all it would take is for something to conclude he's the evil wizard causing all the bad stuff around the area and adopting the solution of the average D&D player, kill the Wizard first. Now he might not be the evil wizard causing bad things to happen to people in the area. What matters is that it's an easy conclusion to make and there are limited solutions for people who don't know magic. Historically the Wildlings have found if you want someone to stop doing puncturing enough blood vessels works. It's worth a try at least. So why hasn't anyone tried? It's not like anyone said "Anyone who tries to cut his throat ends up disappearing.". They just say nobody else is left around.
My best guesses before the video are craster being a good way point for the nights watch regardless of his actions. Craster giving ihcest babies to the white walkers so they have weaker bodies and in turn destory them genetically. The deal is known about the babies so until the mutiny he was basically the only reason why the widlings and nights watch were not just killed randomly in his area aside when they come for the babies. Or joke answer craster is a godly man. Honestly it's an interesting part of the story that is overshadowed by Jon dying as after his death the whole place was destoryed.
@@birgaripadam7112 well yeah it's hard to find any other thing to answer this mystery as crasters keep is all but done already with the place being destoryed. Craster made a deal with them so that's the real question i wanna know. Why and how did he do it
Craster is a Godly man!!!!! 😂🤣 In all seriousness though, I tend to believe that Craster has a very notable lineage that led him to this point. Like how do you just figure out that you can sacrifice your own offspring to the others and end up creating that kind of relationship with them? He doesn't strike me as a guy who studied dark arts, ancient history, or learned that knowledge from books. He had to have learned it from whoever came before him, or it was embedded in his dna.
I'm sceptical. Incest is bad and all but it's not as though it makes that much of a difference. Is neonatal diabetes going to make that much of a difference to a magical creature whose only weakness is dragonsteel? Have we seen any malformed Others? Hasn't George described them as beautiful? And even if they were somewhat weaker, it is still adding to enemy numbers.
@@in_vas_por8810 they theorized in the books that the nights king(not night king) was a stark or Bolton or high class person and I heard craster was simialr to having high blood in him and using his daughters to keep the bloodline pure to give more sons to the what walkers.
I never realized there were so many perplexing questions surrounding Craster. Hmm. I'm just throwing spaghetti on the wall here but when you questioned what use the Others had for sheep, what came to mind was Nettles using sheep to tame Sheepstealer. Of Sheepstealer, it was said he wasn't aggressive towards humans unless provoked; had a cantankerous temperament, and a taste for mutton. And while he ate the occasional sheep dog, he never harmed a shepherd. Maybe the Others are using the sheep (and occasional dog) to placate some sort of creature so they can continue maneuvering in peace or undisturbed. That's all I got🤷♀️. PS- The only other time I questioned Jeor's competence as a leader was his decision to have Ser Alliser training the recruits. I've always wondered if he appointed Ser Alliser to the position or if Jeor inherited Alliser as part of the staff when he became LC. Either way, a man like Alliser Thorne is the LAST person I'd want training recruits. He's a horrible coach.
I think that since the last long night, the nights watch have had an agreement to keep offering baby boys to the others. The white walkers must not be immortal, as there would be way more given that there have been offerings previously. So it's less building an army and moreso just maintaining one. So if this long-standing agreement exists, Craster has the others and the NWs protection so that's two reasons wildings wouldnt interfere
They are afraid of retaliation from the white walkers if they kill craster. Maybe his sons were sufficient at first to keep the walkers at bay, but his ‘offerings had slowed in his latter years sparking the others to attack more elsewhere. Also, weren’t the watch unaware the others still existed? Maybe they just thought he left his kids to die in the cold...
There's two thoughts I have about this. One is that maybe the wildlings fear his connection with Craster. If they were to kill him, maybe his chilly homies will come kill everyone. And secondly, I wonder if the relationship between the Night's Watch and Craster is George's way of talking about how governments will give useful monsters a pass so long as they serve them. An example is how many governments hired and hid the identities of Nazi scientists after WW2. I wonder if George is highlighting this nasty relationship to make us consider if this sort of thing is truly beneficial and should be allowed regardless of the sickness we're accepting, or if monsters should be held accountable for their actions regardless of their possible benefits to other people.
He's been told to hate bastards, and it's specifically the moment when he's called bastard that he lost it and attacked the black brothers, which led to his death. He might be a Mormont bastard, and that might be the reason the Old Bear tolerated him to a fault.
First counterpoint would be that they didn’t know he was helping them build an army, just that he was sacrificing his his boys to be spared. You wouldn’t stop him when he’s been the only thing that’s saved your rangers from dying in the cold.
And a warm place to sleep is incredibly Important!! Especially in the land of always winter. I feel like you’re just blowing off how essential that is to ken who are freezing.
14:09 Here's the thing: The rangers know that Craster is sacrificing baby boys to the Others... *but do they know that the Others are turning these babies into new Others?* That's the missing piece. As far as they know these baby boys are just dying, not swelling the Others ranks for an eventual conquest of the human world. Not knowing that, the only reasons to stop Craster would be humanitarian concerns, and the Watch for whatever reason has decided that tolerating Craster's vileness is preferable to manning and stocking a permanent ranger station beyond the Wall. For that matter, the whole "White Walkers turn human babies into White Walkers" is show canon. Yes, Craster's daughter-wives believe this to be the case, but apparently most men of the Night Watch don't spend enough time talking to them to know that. Even if they did, how much weight would they place on the theories of generations of uneducated incest victims? Also, I think you're underestimating the value of a warm place to sleep north of the wall. Remember the prologue of AGOT, when Gared spoke of killing cold? That implies that at least some rangers have died from hypothermia or frostbite, meaning that in some cases Craster's meager hospitality has made the difference between life and death. Also, GRRM has stated that the Others are alive, or at least "not dead", so maybe they do eat the sheep. There's so much we don't yet know about them. Just sayin', not hatin'.
I have often wondered if some at higher levels of the watch aren't privy to some arrangement we don't know about, like for instance, that what really keeps the others from crossing the wall is a deal for child (baby) sacrifices. Maybe they at the watch understand that if Craster didn't do it, someone else would have to.
It is at the very least true that the older Nights Watchmen (Mormont, Half-hand etc) knew more than we have found out so far. That's why GRRM had them die or get lost. Now Westeros is stuck with the younger generation that never gained access to those deep secrets.
There might be some small form of mind controll going on there. Any time someone keeps talking or thinking about Craster and him not beeing helpfull they get a blast of "Hes a friend to the Watch" and slowly let the point go. I dont know if there was any other form of mind controll set up in any other story but it might be the case when we learn more about the magic.
A thought concerning why Craster gave the Walkers sheep. On p.370 it discusses this topic which is interesting. Gilly tells us that Craster offers sacrifices when the white cold comes, which is now more often. This is her reasoning of why Craster has given his sheep and will next give the dogs, until it’s time she delivers her baby boy. So it sounds like the sheep are only symbolic gifts that demonstrate the true gift of a human male. Sounds a lot like a pact to me.
In the beginning it was suggested that no one, even the nights watch, actually believed the others existed.. Yet every ranger knows about him sacrificing his sons to the others? Royce in the prologue had zero concerns about the others before they attacked.. It was all regarded as childs tales.. But every ranger has known about craster and his sacrifices... 🤔
I feel like he has to be protected by the Others. There is really no explanation why Night’s Watch Brothers and Wildlings both don’t attack him except for fear once they are in the know. Craster must have some way to call the Others or something similar. Everyone despises Craster for being a disgusting waste of a person. So the offerings of sons and goats, dogs, whatever seems kinda like mob protection. Pay the devil to call the devil when you need him kind of thing.
Is Craster effectively holding up the Nightswatch's ancient agreement with the Others? Alysanne changed a lot during her time there. Does what is known Craster's Keep emerge around the same time that the Nightfort was closed?
I’ve also wondered, as you have mentioned... All the small parties over the years that have stayed at Crasters.. All the 3-10 men Ranger parties over all the years that Craster has been there.. How did one of them not get into it with him and end up killing him..?? Very strange..
The Great Ranging was different because it was the Nights Watch moving out in force, bringing along a large amount of fighters. Normally only the elite Rangers would be going north of the wall, and they knew better I think.
With respect to the sheep and dogs, I was also thinking blood sacrifice. Perhaps the Others use the Weirwoods for some purpose and they feed them blood just like the First Men used to do; maybe they took the idea from the Others.
You probably won’t see this but I think the answer why nobody kills Craster/the other wildlings who make sacrifices to the others is because when they do that they essentially fall under there protection. I imagine nobody wants to be the first to cut off others supplies. I wouldn’t want to be the first one to deal with pissed off others looking to set an example to the rest of the wildlings and nights watch about what happens to those who mess with our sacrifices.
Hey I know I don't drop in that much but still hearing your voices gives me a feeling like home. Ok the reason that the white walkers have to get blood from Craster is because you need flowing fresh red iron full blood to perform blood magic. No blood no magic. Only death can pay for life, the greater the sacrifice the greater the reward . A man's son in this world is a greater sacrifice than his daughter. Also I'm working on a theory about Tormund I think he might be Lord Willam Dustin. If you could give it a look over I would appreciate it. Thanks I like this podcast format good luck and stay safe
I think they are letting Craster keep doing it because the others are being given tainted blood. As far as I know Craster doesn't have Kings Blood or the Blood of Old Valyria, which are magical bloodlines. Craster is just a normal dude from a normal bloodline. The Knights Watch and Wildlings may want it to happen to possibly weaken the Others? Idk.. It's a theory.
The only thing I can think of (kind of absurd, I know), is that Craster was somehow "infiltrating" the Others....maybe he might have had some control over the Others that are/were his sons...or maybe he was just providing the Others with "defective" or somehow treasonous new "members". If this were happening and Mormont, Mance/Arthur 😉, and other important figures were aware of this, it could explain why he was still alive and (erroneously 😂) felt untouchable. Ps: I love your channel! Just finished another re-watch of your Machiavelli of Westeros series...I might never forgive George for never giving us a Tywin chapter!
The Nights Watch & the Free Folk leave Crastsr alone seemingly as to not upset the Others. Tormund contemplated it, but never did, which leads me to believe they know of a pact between the others and Crastsr. Blood Raven & the Children may be involved in some way. If you remember Jeor’s Raven had an important role in the mutiny seemingly. . The other possibility, no pun intended, is the others are being purposely handed bad genetic stock. These are 2nd generation incest babies, by the way. Maybe the Others are unable to make offspring and rely on Crastsr to feed their ranks, so the others leave him alone.
as far as the wildlings go, my money's on the various tribes (and craster himself) believing that craster's converted sons are watching over his hut and protecting him. That would certainly explain why craster thinks he can push the rangers around. As for The Watch, I'd argue that they haven't put together that "The Cold Gods"=The Others. the animal sacrifices might even be cover, to convince the watch it's just a weird religious thing, not anything to do with the others. Alternatively, the three eyed crow might be messing with the watch's heads, continually planting "he's a friend of the watch" in all their heads...
I suspect that Craster feeding the army of Others, and no one stopping him, was a necessary illogical element to make the story happen. Would love to learn more though.
The nightswatch priorities are always out of whack, so that doesn’t surprise me. But it DOES surprise me that the wildlings don’t kill him or constantly harass and raid him. He has southern steel, steady provisions, and is just one guy with a haram constantly waiting to turn on him. You’d think they’d kill him just for being a half-crow.
Hmm, I don't get either why the Wildlings are not killing him at the point in the plot. But for the Night's Watch, they don't know the White Walkers are real and what possible harm Craster is doing there. The battle at the fist is the first time Night's Watch Command accept there is a White Walker threat to Westeros and on their march back home, they still got no clue that Craster is helping the Others. PS: Craster setting them up is a cool theory.
my bet is that crastor is just telling wildlings about what the rangers he meets are up to. Seems very plausible as a reason they would keep him alive. They dont have many sources about the watch's actions other than him.
@@OfficialChrissums Ye, but the Wildlings should know around AGOT that Craster is a big Problem. Superstition alone should drive them mad evil for him.
Weren't the Others in hibernation until recently? Craster must have been at this for more than 40 years. There are no reports of Other activity that is more than just a few years old. Does anyone have any insight from the books I missed? I am legally blind and don't read well, and perhaps I missed something...
Hi, a great podcast as usual. A few thoughts I had watching this, we have no idea about the communication aspect. For all we know they probably can speak the common tongue (they at least seemed to understand it with the whole Royce incident), the goats and dogs thing, I've always wondered why is it that the walkers want to kill. They're said that they hate the living so that could be it. Sacrifices of things living could be a pleasing enough thing for them to wait for more sons of his. And for all we know they might feed on living things. I mean it just doesn't cut it to say grrm would just write it off as "they hate everything alive". Why is everyone putting up with him could be simply 'safe crossing'. In the sense that he gives them safety from the walkers. at least in what you could call his domain. There's three examples of NW rangers getting attacked by the others that I can think of. The one in the start of book one. Benjen's ranging searching for clues on the fate of that party and the expedition where Jon was with them. The expedition was attacked for being too large in my opinion, and maybe because they were looking for benjen. So we can put this one aside for now. Royce didn't stay and he obviously displeased Craster so it's fair to say there was no way he'd be given protection, more likely than not to have been used as sacrifices and most importantly, he was green enough to not know about the protection in the first place. Now, we get to Benjen's case which is interesting. It's a fact imo that he lied about not seeing Ben for 3 years. The old bear didn't find out about Gared until Tyrion, Jon and Ben got to the wall. And the next ranging after the old bear got the news was Benjen's. So yeah, he lied. And I think something happened there that put a mark on Benjen's back. An extra speculation on my part is that it might be big and important enough that it was the reason for the expedition to be attacked so to keep it a secret.
the walkers dont give a crap about the dogs or goats. Crastor sacrafices that stuff when he doesnt have any sons around because he assumes the walkers want sacrafices. They dont though they specifically want human babies, presumably only sons for a specific purpose. Crastor doesnt actually know this though hes just going with what he assumes they want, which is blood sacrafice. No son? just send a goat because its better than nothing.
@@OfficialChrissums I don't disagree. I'm not married to the idea that they feed on them or anything. It's just speculation. All I'm saying that it could be since we don't know much about them. But regardless, the walkers wanting them or not, it doesn't really matter much. His reason is kinda obvious, he thinks it's something he should do to please them while making another son.
@@sleekoduck well, siders big enough to ride. So that's kinda different But the goats can have some value I guess, frozen milk is great for Smoothies and backing. The others need a break just like anyone else.
Theory 1: The Night's Watch doesn't actually know about Craster's sacrifices to the Others. They've assumed all along that he was doing human sacrifices to the Old Gods in ancient First Men tradition, the way they used to water their weirwoods with blood. Jon only leanrs the truth through Gilly and she's only willing to talk because she wants to fuck off to save her baby. This wasn't a source of info they had before Theory 2: The Watch knows but has delayed doing anything about it because they think or hope time is on their side. Craster is a consistent source of baby for the Others and killing him might provoke them to seek sources further south and begin their attack on civilization. The Watch may naively hope that by letting Craster live a few more years they might buy time to recruit more men and garrison more castles. It's like how the US continues to buy Chinese goods because the benefits of profit have yet to be eclipsed by the risk of war. Also: the Others don't take the girls because Craster needs those girls to produce more boys. It's a long term YOLO investment for the Others. Two more weeks! HODL!
It's a business arrangement, everyone gets time. The others get time to build up their numbers with Crasters Sons, the Wildlings get not having the others trying to massacre them. BOth sides know ads soon as the others have the numbers, it's Wilding extermination time. That's why Mance spent all the time and energy to get the willing together to go south of the wall.
Could be he was worked out Infinite Guest Rights because each stay is a continuation of the previous? Since there is such strong magic north of the wall, the Night's Watch doesn't want to take any chances?
Slaver, wonder if that's actually the missing connection for what happened to Benjen Stark? Everyone just assumes it's some magical connection or he's a deserter or dead. He disappeared early enough in AGOT that we didn't have any pov's on a water front that would have given us a clue, and it actually bothers me about Jeor having a lemon in his beer every morning (the watch is impoverished enough that having an abundance of lemons for Jeor's beer seems very expensive and the old bear already seem to be looking the other way for anything Craster already does selling slaves would also be overlooked) We already see in Arya and Sam's pov's that there are Slavers that got caught and it's just assumed that was because of Dany they're that far North, but if they already have established trade in the North doesn't seem that far fetched especially since Benjen already knew about Craster sacrificing sons, so he had to find out something else, i dont think its that far of a stretch.
When reading about the general lore of Planatos I realized that the current storyline is like an echo/reference to some “historical event”. The events going on now in this story seem to pretty show us what actually happened in the past. I think Craster is an echo/ remnant of the Targaryens. For example Crafters Midden Hill = Kings Landing Crasters Keep = Red Keep Maegors Holdfast/ Black Brides = Crasters Incest Wives Craster is Black of Blood and carries Heavy Burden”. = The Mad King / Valyrians
