Game of Thrones Finale: Is It Deep or Dumb? - Wisecrack Edition 

Lemme award you gold

The gods are cheaters then, seeing films these days it's pretty obvious the coin has two same sides xD

jojojojoost LoL yeah

Wait when had it worked when the films or TV ran out of source materials from the book. Is there any? I don't think so.

That voice over proved they failed as story tellers. You should not need to remind us that madness runs in the family through a cheap voice over rehash of previous episodes. Pathetic.

You want more time with D&D as writers!!??? Rushed or slowly is the same if you don't know how to write.

That’s what is bothersome most of all. They could have built a monster ending but instead it whimpered

I love how all of you claim HBO would have paid for more seasons when you're all restating someone said on Reddit as though it's a fact. Your ignorance is comical, but also sad.

Pat Sylvia No stupid Thats what GRRM said in his interview that is on youtube

@@issavirgo4838 Dude, fuck you first of all. Secondly, GRRM said he wanted more seasons. HBO didn't say they wanted more.

Did the iron throne cause her to murder the innocents? Were the innocents preventing her from attainment? I think not. The city surrendered and yet she torched the city. As a result of the massacre, she was assassinated, as opposed to as a result of her wanting the throne. Thus I don't believe the throne got her killed. She went crazy and that got her killed. She's a targryan and was apparently going crazy either way, regardless of the throne. The coin flipped unfavourably for her remember. Ie. This season has been disgusting.

The books made a big deal talking about how intelligent dragons were, so I think it's reasonable to argue that Drogon understood that Dany had gone off the deep end and that Jon killed her because she never would have stopped on her own, not out of any desire to hurt her or for power. In that context, Drogon melted the Iron Throne as a symbolic warning to not make the same mistakes Dany did, as much as he also did it for catharsis as he grieved for her.

Kendall Brown Drogon doesn’t know what a fucking throne is man.

His wisdom was temporarily conferred on him by Benioff and Weiss, to get him and Dany’s dead body out of there quickly.

The Drogon who melted the iron throne and spares Jon understood that power corrupts and would not have allowed itself to be used to nuke a city. The Drogon that burnt the city would not have spared Jon and disappeared. Either something happened that we don’t see (Bran or Dany as she’s dying wargs Drogon) or even the dragon was inconsistent and out of character.

People often laugh at novel ideas, that part is true to life.

@@vebdaklu It's not novel in asoiaf universe though, look at the Ironborn's Kingsmoot

@@10ReasonsWhy or the various free cities and their merchant republics.

The peasants are treated so horribly by the Nobels it would be impossible for the Nobels to feel good about giving them power in Government

you'd think that bran, being so wise, might have an objection to this. Another example of why he wasn't actually a good fit as ruler

master of war would be more fits for him

My thing about it is, if you can make a king you can unmake him. And that isn’t a king. Just get a new king and go on. Democracy ruins fantasy.

@@cain7925 Or just, what he always wanted, being Lord of a Castle. Not sure why he gave up High Garden to go and have a job in KL

It's call the Peter Principle. An observation that the tendency in most organizational hierarchies, such as that of a corporation, is for every employee to rise in the hierarchy through promotion until they reach a level of respective incompetence. It's not impossible to think that Bronn coud negociate is way to the top without any skills. He didn't had any skill as a monarch either to rule over a castle and no one bat an eye before.

*curb your enthusiasm theme song starts playing*

Baby Jon will be the next King beyond the Wall and Tormund’s daughter will be his wife. He’ll get over the Wall, seize Winterfell, descend the Neck, devastate the Riverlands, conquer King’s Landing and will sit on the Iron Throne. Oops it won’t exist anymore. He’s gonna have to build a new one

Or maybe Jon becomes the new night knight

Wait........ What were the Conditions? Jon can't marry someone nor have children, right?

@@chanceroberts7494 no fuck that lol

No, sir.

This is the most accurate answer

More thought was put into your comment than into season 8

More thought was put into what I want for breakfast than season 8

I don't mind if they throw a couple of war elephants also... 😜

I wanted those elephants.

The show without Dragons would be bad. The REAL enemy of character development is SHOCK VALUE.

I mean, is it too much to ask for both?

Sheepy can you explain what DND is?

-Season 8 Stannis: A lie, take it out!

😂😂

Syrio: what do we say to - Me: let me stop you right there. You mean nothing. Your storyline means nothing. All of this was meaninglessness.

Please before I watched this stupid sh...t ending! :)

exactly XD

excellent

My first thought at them naming Bran king was "Oh my god, they're gonna have to build so many wheelchair ramps, the Red Keep is so not wheelchair accessible."

She gets replaced by the NSA 😂😂😂

Wahaha! Well, that was certainly true for this season of GoT.

Not all think the way you both do.

@@ARU-vidchannel1448 Yeah idiots don't think it's bad.

@@timothypolanco8622 name calling is not good writing

@@ARU-vidchannel1448 And what are we supposed to do with that information, Captain Obvious?

The thirst for power is a central theme of the show, after all. The victims can be as guilty of it as their aggressors.

Alexander Vaucrosson Yet in the episode where he leaves the wall, he can’t pet ghost cos ‘it’s too hard for cgi’ or whatever bullshit they came up with.

@@seanbailey317 I read a comment that his pet in the end is reused footage from an earlier season. I guess they found their way around that cgi issue...

So postponing the inevitable?

Alexander Vaucrosson anericas shit, no one would care if it turned into mad max

you say that like thats a bad thing

PREACH.

The serial was dumb from the get go!

Adela Setara no, making the series before the books were finished was dumb. The story itself is only dumb to those with a short attention span.

@@birgittabirgersdatter8082 Everyone who is critical of the media you like has a short attention span? Yeah, this argument is almost as dumb as the series you like.

@@Analysis_Paralysis "Everyone who is critical of a medium" (not media; that's the plural) is surely not calling it dumb. People who are critical of the show are calling out the problems while acknowledging what it achieves - subverting and redefining modernday Fantasy media - not going around calling it "dumb" as if they lacked appropriate vocabulary to express their problems with the show.

Bran isn't going to live for thousands of years, the Three Eyes Raven straight up told him so

Why wouldn't an all-knowing all-seeing being free from pety desires be a good king? Aside from the lack of desires driving him to hunt Dragons rather than manage a Kingdom, of course. 🙃

I loved the last Jedi. Best star war 🤷🏼‍♂️

@@wgo523 nah, still empire

I actually loved the Last Jedi

I love this comment so much.

@Your Immortal Compagnion Its going to be controversial but I really enjoyed what they did with Luke. The idealistic hero who became a disillusioned and bitter old man was a good surprise for me. I'm also a big fan of Kylo Ren, he reminds me of Zuko from TLA. Now you have to know that Inwas never really a Star Wars fan before the new generation cam in.

Yeah the video is deeper than season 8 writing

Everyone put more thought into this except the writters

it is as if a monkey took a nosedive in a paint container and decided to drag his balls across canvas and this guy saw the result and strained to figure out what the artist was trying to say...

As did several RU-vidrs,fans, composers,lyricists, and basically everyone except the writers who were actually paid to do so

Benioff and Weiss are pushy business midgets, they are not what I would call creative people.

The best

@@maxzaslove6897 Didn't you see season 8? kinda hard now to call it the best ever.

@@gottalight3574 That's why he said it was *"disappointing"*

Meanwhile Deadwood finally got it's finale and it was great.

@Ex- Men The Wire

Yes! In the end, I only worried about the dragon. Hope evil Bran will not find him! Dragon should have the status of protected species after all! :)

Thank god I got out before it went to shit. - everyone who died before season 5

@Valkyrie and Arya she should have died about 4 times in episode 5

Game of Thrones : Brotherhood

Oh I dont... it was already a slightly tedious show ... let it be done.

@@Daelyas your dumb

It'll somehow be worse

The writing was a bit rushed. But still good.

It's dumb because it failed to be deep, good ideas but shit execution

Ikr it isn’t even worth analyzing. It was dumb as fuck and ridiculously rushed and badly written

It started deep, with all the implications, and gradually got dumb with each season . . . .

Radiyas 13 The sad thing is some of the fan theories really had me expecting a Lovecraftian kind of plot twist ending, HBO should have had Redditors and youtubers be a part of the writing...

You know it's bad when you look back at Wisecracks video predicting who would sit on the throne... a lot better endings in the comments than what actually happened to the show.

That's not a bad thought, but one that's a little bit meta. The idea was to analyse the writing, not the men who wrote it. It's clear they messed up, but it's more important to see how they messed up.

They flew by the seat of their pants. There was no underpinning theme to them. The goal was “wrap anything up” however you can. And that’s it. WE wanted meaning and cohesion. It’s disjointed because they are nothing but capitalists and opportunists and so the story became.

They could have divided westeros into seven independent kingdoms. Or restore Jon to the throne and what about the wildlings shouldn't they be rewarded like integrate them to the north citizenship. Who will sansa marry? Edit: divided westeros will only lead to more wars, but it does make sense because Targaryen builded their unity by fire & blood and ended with that same way.

Tyrion: So everybody is gonna be king but I'm the imperator.

nobody in the north would rebel. that's long over and done with by this point. jon doesn't want to challenge his sister, and probably never will.

I don't think the Northern lords would rebel, because when Jon and Sansa did this co-ruler thing, they all agreed with her, while Jon did his own thing. Sansa cares about the North and listens to the lords. (you could also say that they agreed to her ruling them of-screen, since she went to represent them and was crowned without protest, but that's stupid)

@@elineverstraeten1872 Most of the lords probably wouldn't rebel, but with examples like the Boltons, Frays, Umbers, and Karstarks, it only takes one leader of a house to claim that they shouldn't have to follow Sansa or her successors.

I forgot about Baleish's death. That was disappointing and awful. The whole Sansa vs. Arya thing was awful and confusing.

@MarcyyD yeah I was also sold at that moment, just losing my mind over that scene because the delivery was simply fantastic, but when I looked more into it, Arya vs Sansa didn´t make any sense

He was my fav character too. But tbh he had it coming.

@@user-cs1ep6jj2o true, all the horrible characters died terribly, and he was definitely a horrible character.

Fallout Fans : We want another great Fallout. Bethesda : Fallout 76. and/or Star Wars Fans : Please don't fuck up Star Wars. Disney : Star Wars The Last Jedi.

@@flamesofchaos13 Fully agree with you ;)

@@lapolicedelapensee7047 We apparently live in an age where media companies and the writers of said companies..Just don't give a single amount of shit.

@@flamesofchaos13 - I think that they are over-estimated and in fact, it's just a whole generation of incompetent writers who are too used to compensating for their lack of genius, by exploiting the rise of special effects and 3D.

subverting expectations is not a bad thing, a game of thrones is all about that where good people/bad people die, where's the "grey people" who are not bad or good keep on living.

That about sums it up

Guilty af

ikr ! hahaha

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

Pretty much

But he wasn't disagreeing with Tolkien, he was expanding on the idea that things aren't so black and white when it comes to reigning. The "tax policy" question is meant to portray good leaders as potentially flawed in overall politics.

Curious_ Pizza I’d say 80% of criticism of twitter is fair and reasonable though, and the 10% on either side are overblown by each other and that’s all you see.

@@CHIEF__ That sounds very scientific.

@@Cursed_Mark lmao exactly. That entire comment encapsulates Twitter.

Shots faired

Alex Angerman I agree I’m just quoting what they said in the video

Lmao for some reason I like the Dexter ending or at least I tell myself that...

Sounds OK to me

That's so good, I demand an addition to the Dexter ending. Dexter sits down on his chair and suddenly a couple of Canadian mounties enter and cue the Luberjack song.

Jon became the king of the free folk. Don't be childish

Herman Spaerman I’m a lumberjack and I’m okay I sleep all night and work all day . Oh never mind ☮️😎

I actually liked that Tyrion wasn't even mentioned in the meta-story within the show. It says a lot about how Martin views our written histories and how significant people are forgotten. After eight seasons of following Tyrion's story and his pontificating on the importance of story, he ends up without even a footnote in his own story.

@factotum he was talking about Tyrion hyping up Bran’s story to those lords. You know, the one that was supposedly the “best story” of them all; such a _great_ story that they didn’t even show him in Season 5.

@@MrJH101 I know. I just saw Tyrion+Story and thought I'd share that. Also it's humorously ironic that Tyrion wasn't included in the 'story' after giving a speech on the importance of stories.

@@factotums It makes no sense though. He was in multiple high positions and he killed Tywin. He should have been at least mentioned.

@@Evija3000 The point could be made that medieval histories are incredibly vague compared to what we have today or even two hundred years ago. The book was called 'The Wars following the death of King Robert the First' and just retitled. Also Tywin held enormous sway, was basically king, would have certainly influenced the citadel, hated his son and was succeeded by his daughter who hated him even more. Point being you could make a serious case for his omission. Then again it might just be they wanted that joke in there and didn't think their viewing public was worth the effort of making it make sense. Honestly I'm more concerned as to why everyone is so jovial while sitting atop unprecedented atrocity. Why do they have a Master of Ships and not a Master of Orphanages or Master of Removing One Million Burned Corpses from the Rubble of their Former Homes? Who is Tyrion concerned about getting shipments of food to feed? Why is Bran's only request that they appoint a Master of Whisperers when he can see everything at all times and again why be concerned with spying on a pile of unoccupied stones? Why are they even using that city and not one of the several others which did not receive a fire bombing which was specifically aimed to erase the old world? Anyway, I forgot why I was writing this. Cheerio.

Connor Kent! Derp and Derper...

That answer was not as deep and complex as I like...anyway, the silliest thing in the whole series for me has to be a prisoner in chains informing all the rulers how it's gonna be from then on...and everyone so high on throne fumes has a big love-in. It was, in a way, everything GoT wasn't.

Season 8 was an insult to the viewers intelligence

Dick und doof

Season 8 was trash.

Then why does he have a master of whispers?

@@francisthompson3772 to know where to look.

Yea, I didnt like that this dude thought that the NK fight should have been before the throne.. the whole season 7 was about how it wouldn't matter who is on the throne if they are all dead..

@@ML-yn9yu It really didn't did it? By the end hardly anyone cared. It might have made a little more sense if there had actually been a proper battle for the throne after the NK death but it lasted a couple minutes with a clear winner, then genocide and every other episode was filler. There was no point to any of it, if they wanted the battle for the throne to be the main issue they could have had... a battle for the throne? What were those 2 episodes in Winterfell for if it was going to end that quickly? The NK could have died in episode 1 and have the fucking squabble for the throne the rest of the season, otherwise you get a bunch of filler episodes!

haha :D there are just too many problems with season 8 , I dont think that nobody can talk about all of them , fact that this mad queen thing came almost out of nowhere, they didnt build up this moment at all , fact that whole point was "breaking the wheel" and still after Dany is dead, who are the people who decide who is going to be the next king? LORDS OF WESTEROS, most powerful people of the westeros....not the real surviving people , If I remember correctly then one of these lords even laughed at the idea of real people electing their own leaders....so what was the point of the whole show? And I cant even talk about the "long" night....what? Like first long night lasted decades and now this one is just....15 minutes and didnt have any impact on the show either, fact that dothraki and unsullied were dying in the ong night but then when its time for final battle they just show up like nothing happened...

@@HK-gm8pe And if we look into it. What was the big impact of Daenerys? She freed a city that revolted and is still filled with slaves, one of those three guys that planned the cup is still alive, which means that he will just keep doing slavery with her gone. By the time she arrived at Westeros the last Lannisters and Starks were already screwed and she spent one week in King's Landing before dying. The Dothraki are going to disband back into whatever they were and most of the Unsullies she freed died so... there is little to no difference between her crazy ass existing or not.

The long night was 10 hours, normal nights are 9 hours.

Almost two years now... The North remembers.

Take a look at this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-I8U6kjqLkJQ.html

of course there has to be that guy...

😂😂 you still remembered the newspeak

Why would anyone want Tyrion as hand is what I wonder. He proved he was incapable of ruling in Mereen when Dany had to fight the slavers on her return with the Dothraki. That was Tyrion's show at what he could do. And then he literally lost Daenerys the kingdoms and her life with his stupid plan on arriving at Westeros and stupid moralising about what she could do to take the kingdoms that no other character was held to.

@@TheMoonatDawn Yeah, Tyrion's cynicism, intelligence, very rudimentary morality and pragmatism make him a very good hand in the type of viper's nest that is King's Landing under the Lannisters. He even is a fantastic bureaucrat in a less hostile environment. But he is not a leader. His family and the general hostility of Westeros towards those with disabilities leave him far too cynical, hateful and cruel to be a good leader to help the people. And the people honestly are too prejudiced to let his best self (which we never really see tbh) rule.

You're not wrong, see all the lines about how the Hand can make.even actively bad rulers work.

I actually agree with you. Even if people say that Tyrion hated people of King's landing he still did everything he could to protect them and Bran knew that too.

And Rian Johnson!!!!

They havn't been for many years. Since Dexter ended to be exact. And I would still rank the Lost finale below GoT. Both of those were long ago and people seem to have forgotten just how bad they were.

@@DerMoerpler Dexter was a bad way to end the story, but at least the finale wasn't the crux of the whole series. All of Lost was built on dragging you along by building up and teasing a mystery. B/c of that, the finale's solution retroactively makes the entire series worse. This is why I'd say it's the worst finale until GoT, and it's arguable if it isn't still the worst. They're close in my book as they both hurt the rewatch in such a fundamental way.

@@thisguydan GoT finale had a bigger impact because seasons 5-7, while not as strong as the first 4, were still good. Lost and Dexter on the other hand got worse over time, so the bad ending didn't hurt as much. I can see your point on Dexter, though I'm not sure that makes it better or worse than GoT. I'll find that out on a rewatch, and how much the series suffers retroactively (GoT that is, I'm not spending my limited time on earth rewatching Dexter). I'd argue that Lost has the worst ending. That is because I'm not against most of the plot developments in GoT on principle but on execution. I could see ending up where they did if it just was told in a more complex and logical and less rushed way, whereas the ending of Lost is just a complete garbagefire alltogether.

I definitely agree that the GoT endpoints were fine - it was the lack of coherent development in getting us there. Every answer in Lost led to more questions. The story was built upon the promise of a satisfying explanation which ended up being a cop-out. GoT at least had satisfying resolutions along the way, making it a better rewatch. That said, and maybe it's the recency of it, but GoT finale still feels like the biggest disappointment to date. It was the most watched show, enormous budget and talent, HBO asking them to please take their money and all the time they needed to finish the story, an incredible story at that, and they basically chose to do a half-ass job to leave early. The finale of one failed because of a lack of imagination; the other because the writers stopped caring and chose to skip out on a dedicated audience who've followed for years. That makes it a bigger sore spot than Lost to me.

What might be even more sad is if D&D thought their asses off and this is the best they could come up with.

Dumb and Dumber

*to jamie He's basically telling jamie that he killed him. He died believing that his wound that he gave to jamie would kill him. Why are people so weirded out by it?

@@chrisbolland5634 It's the only time in the show's 10 years someone looked directly into the camera.

@@riparianlife97701 Not really, Missandei did right before her execution. It doesn't really matter though. Are you going to let one movement of a character's eyes ruin your likely favorite TV show? Be grateful for what we were given, not bitter over what we were denied

@@chrisbolland5634 No, Missandei did not look directly at the camera. Euron did, and it came across as campy. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nam_w3V6wdk.html

@@chrisbolland5634 Watch it again. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nam_w3V6wdk.html

That's a really good idea!

Let's do the last 4 please. Dorne and victarion deserve justice, Arya deserve to learn actually interesting stuff, John deserve not to be completely incompetent, and Tyrion, varys and littlefiger deserve to remain intelligent.

Do it

I would go to season 2 :D but seriously I think that the series shoud have made a commitment to do something like 12 seasons or start to diverge from books earlier and be lighter in content to end with proper conclusion

But we can't pull a people from the current main stream animation studios.......far to much going in and liberal we need grassroots movement

Wrong

Stronly Agreed. Finally someone says it out loud.

Season 8 was a mess in its entirety lmao they made the characters stupid caricatures of themselves. You really think Jon snow and his Avengers squad would ever think its actually a good idea to go beyond the wall to try and capture a single white walker?

Power corrupts everyone

And taking the generic fantasy route.

I think it's partially the other way around too. They lost a lot of the source material when going off the books and they didn't know how to write well so they had more and more epic visuals to substitute.

@@Evija3000 Exactly, there's a huge difference between adapting something (which they did very good) and inventing something from scratch. Buuut, if they knew their limitations, they weren't humble enough to accept them, thus insisting on writing most of the final season themselves, when even some fans had better ways to end the show.

Subversion storytelling feels so trendy these days.

jesus fucking christ that explains a lot

Wouldn't he look noticeably younger and different?

@@Maesterful he didn't get old yet.

If I was a direwolf, I'd also choose Tormund Giantsbane over Joegon Targsnow. He just fills me with joy! My milk-drinking boy

He sent him to safety.

“subverting your expectations” a new euphemism for Disappointment.

Even more sad when you realize that GoT was probably THE show that made "subverting expectations" a thing in the first place.

Yes and no. Every time when I see this argument it just feels as surface level as anything. To the best of our knowledge D&D knew about Bran being king since the end of Season 4, at the very least. And what was their first creative decision knowing this information? They almost left Bran out from Season 5 completely. This is what confuses and frustrates me the most. Because Got wasn't your typical tv show from a writing standpoint. It wasn't HIMYM, they did not have to make up/rush the ending at the last minute. They had a whole show to build towards it. Or at least 4 whole seasons when they were in sole charge. And they f*cked up royaly. And that is why I think that even with 20+ more episodes we would have been just in the same position. Dany is the prime example of my argument. I do not think that they needed more time to convince us that she is "mad" (oh God, how I despise this trope. MADNESS IS NOT A MENTAL DISORDER, but whatever) or bad. She was only ever good because she was fighting with cartoon villains. Don’t get me wrong, given the right framing she is one of the best tragic characters ever. But she was destined to fall in the end, she had three dragons, a lust for power, and she was falling upwards from Season 2. And at the same time she ate up everyone’s POV around her just to hide this. (leading it to really questionable things, hi white savior trope, and stupid&useless Varys&Tyrion&Jon) Basically they continued with this approach until after the very last minute. Just to sell her madness as a twist? I guess. Again given different framing, her descend would have been awesome. Give back Tyrion&Varys their remaining brain cells and make them more wary about her behavior from Season 5. Or make her cult of personality more dominant amongst the people she “freed”. Give Jon scenes where he confirms he only used her and doesn’t love her. Because with a slight change in framing everything would have been more predictable and clear. She burnt the Tarllys and Tyrion&Jon had to talk her out of burning down KL TWICE in Season 7. Narratively it wasn’t rushed. But they needed ambiguity to make Episode 5 shocking. And that's why I don't have any sympathy left towards D&D. This and what I like to call The Dothraki Problem. Every time I think about the end and try to make sense of it, or think, you know maybe creating an ending without ANY context was their way of saying something profound? And then I remember how the Dothraki was wiped out in episode 3, then multiplied by mitosis by episode 4&5 and then was forgotten by episode 6. You can say that this is just a small problem, and it is, really, compared to everything in Season 8. But the treatment of the Dothraki takes away all will left in me to approach this text in good faith. Why bother? The creators clearly didn’t. (I mean clearly they did, they seem to have too big of an ego just to not care, but again, they failed miserably) Of course we needed more episodes for a great ending, even with competent writers. But we did not need more episodes for a decent ending. For example, just make GW kill Dany, because he blames her for Missandei’s death and he realizes that she is just an other master after all. With this you can justify killing Missandei in that horrible way and tell something about the white savior trope, and you avoid a man-killing-his-love trope. Three birds with one stone. You don’t want Jon to be king? His parentage means nothing and he doesn’t kill the NK? Good, then let us see his misery and his search for meaning. Give us scenes where we find out what he thinks about his life! Give us scenes with the Starks, so we have an emotional connection to them, so we care about their ending, and it doesn’t feel utterly empty. Jfc, this is writing 101. For this we did not need even a minute more of this show, we just needed good writers. And if we have time to listen to Tyrion's awful jokes and Tormund's backstory (he is one of my favs, but it really wasn't necessary) then we literally have time for anything. (sorry for my english and for the long essay, I'm just really pissed)

tess064 hey 100000% agree!!! Preach!! I know you and 1000 others could have written a better ending. This is why I hate Hollywood!

@@tess064 Good points overall and thanks for the reminder that "To the best of our knowledge D&D knew about Bran being king since the end of Season 4, at the very least." As for the ending, Grey Worm "kill[s] Dany because he blames her for Missandei’s death and he realizes that she is just an other master after all." That's brilliant!

Im good... I blame the head. Grrm couldve worked with them . they paid him to stay away. Also grrm knows in his heart that he never intended to finish thesr books. He dangles his new bs in our faces. He admits that essos is mostly grrm stealing stories and lore from hp lovecraft and his demonic writings. Its pathetic writing. Screw this dude grrm imma say it! There is no such thing as "world building" its a retarded thing grrm invented to cover his excuses on creating a story with no end. Everything has a meaning and purpose. I will make sure to write an essay on this crap before grrm dies! There is NO plan for this b s mark my words! Bad writing at the core!

tess064 There are just a few points I’d like to make in response. Firstly George R. R. Martin actually addressed the whole “white savior trope” in an interview. The population of Slaver’s bay was always intended to be *multi-ethnic* including both white people and people of color (at least amongst the slave population). Slaves were acquired from all across Essos after all, the victims of Dothraki raids. Unfortunately this diversity wasn’t as apparent in the show as it needed to be. Since the Slaver’s bay scenes were shot in Tunisia, HBO hired extras from that region. Also, I vehemently disagree with your idea that Jon should have admitted that he was “using” Dany and didn’t love her. Although the romance between Jon and Dany was poorly written, that completely goes against Jon’s character to “use” her or any woman for that matter. He was raised to be honorable. And also, in my opinion, it made more sense for Grey Worm to blame Cercei and the Lannister’s for Missandei’s death. Beyond that, I think we’re in agreement? Yeah sure, it’s *possible* that the writers could have crafted a better ending with the number of episodes they allotted themselves. But why bother with that restriction at all? Yeah, giving Tormund more backstory instead of developing Bran more effectively was a mistake. But they could’ve developed ANY CHARACTER that needed development over the course of more episodes than what we got. Speculation over what would have made the 13 final episodes better (I’m including season 7), and ONLY those 13 episodes, is pointless to me. That conversation would be heavily opinion based, and therefore not very productive. I’m not interested in arguing over which characters deserved screen time and which didn’t. I won’t dismiss that it’s *”possible”* that the finale could at least have been decent with only 13 episodes. But we’re not going to get a definitive fanfic outline from any RU-vid commenter (including myself) that’s guaranteed to please everybody. Limiting the story to that scale introduces pacing issues that are extremely difficult to overcome. They had a whole show to build towards it, but keep in mind HALF OF IT was spent adapting books that hadn’t finished laying the groundwork for that ending. GRRM himself pushed for 13 seasons, and HBO wanted 10! For the record. I like Tormund as a character. And whether or not Tyrion’s jokes were funny are a matter of opinion.

@FINALRAGE44, yeah basically. A bunch of petty, squabbling Dukedoms that are united in nothing but name. And even then, no common culture even exists among them.

@CK Lim and you could say the same things for other patriarchal monarchy's before them, and in other places (China, India, Egypt, ethiopia, all of them have records of long periods of dynastic rule). But Longevity doesn't mean it's a better system, the whole point of the break the wheel question, was to see if there was anybody ( or any groups of people) in the fantasy world that could do better and prioritize the people instead of their own ruling class drama, backstabbery and power struggles, which they waged on the lives of everyone else. The fact that the show puts so little effort into answering this question, shows how much shit they gave. For fucks sake they jeer at the idea of democracy at the end and expect the audience to laugh along with them. Worse, they expect us to think this ruling class circle jerks is supposed to pave the way for a better system? Just because they got rid of family lines as a rule? How the heck do they plan to enforce that? How is that supposed to prevent another repeat of the same violence & widespread destruction? Like they couldn't be more hypocritical and tone deaf.

@@Redchinesestones I agree, but instead of a jump from absolute monarchy to democracy, like Sam suggested, which never happened without world-changing violence to my knowledge, (and to be fair, the nobility in the show rightly reacted to), they should have went with a more English approach with an adoption of a proto-constitution like the Magna Carta, giving more rights to the lords and subjects while not totally skipping past almost 600 years of political, economic, and overall societal evolution. Especially considering that the series is primarily based on medieval English history and not German. At the very least, it would have been more believable, but I guess you can't hold D&D to a historical account along with good storytelling. (Which makes me think about what kinda shit HBO was smoking considering they green-lit them for a show based on alternate history but that's a whole separate matter lol.)

@CK Lim Yes it lasted long, but really only in name. Given the amount of civil wars, regular wars, and dynasty changes along with the the amount of interregna in its history, the government was hardly stable.

​@CK Lim There are plenty of examples in medieval period of the HRE banding together as a whole to go off warring. The Third Crusade and Nicopolis are just two of these. But this points to my main point of it being unstable due to the fact that they were really only able to congregate as a solid power under a select few rulers.

yeah they kinda forget about them

Iron Islands had a similar voting system where Yara got screwed over by Euron. If Tyrion or anyone else couldn't think of the possible issues, she knew and could have spoken up about it. Yeah, I can see every great house nominating someone from their house and the houses forming voting factions, buying each others votes, etc. And when that doesn't work possibly rebellions and civil wars.

Kind of the the series the Borgias or should I just say how they nominate popes?

Most likely it will mutate again back, to being inherited. You know like the Holy Roman Empire "electeing" the emperor. Or the Greyjoys on the Iron Islands in GoT itself..

Season 8 (mark 2)

WAIT...we’re actually getting what we want?

Opening scene, Bran wake up in his bed and found out that he's crippled.

@@araisikewai Opening scene: Jon wakes up to the fact Bran lied to cripple Jon's kingship. There's a lonely dragon out there, who's ready for a daddy, which will prove who Jon is. Season 9 is HUGE in my mind. The battle of the brother-cousins.

@@lilacDaisy111 Opening scene: Arya singlehanded kills a kraken in the open sea. The crew is starving from some time now but she is OK as if the food and fresh water (or wine or whatever) isn't scarce.

I hate witting.

It was just Ghost's flashback from the time his master still cared about him.

6 ..they started to rush things ..

@@Mohammad_.- The writers planned season 7 and 8 together and only wanted to make 11 episodes. This is where the quality dropped IMHO.

Seasons 1-4 deep, Season 5-6 Great television, but no longer a masterclass, Season 7-8 Dumb.

@@ishaanbansal3503 well my rushometer gets pretty high on 7 & 8 and tgere is only 6 before that so ..agreed

no... it was never really "deep"... and it never became "dumb"... It was "slightly on the nose" philosophy 101 and ended on "really on the nose" philosophy 101... Thats pretty much it.

To expand on this: one question is, is it okay, or, better worded, understandable (I know this is vague and generally worded, but) to have our expectations built up by the great success and compelling quality of a show or movie, only to have those very expectations set the standard of quality so high that it becomes increasingly difficult for the ever-shifting network and ever-revolving door of who is producing what in showbiz to produce something that will satisfy “true fans”? And in this context I don’t mean true fans negatively or sarcastically. It’s a constant debate: did the new Star Wars movies suck because they didn’t hit on my nostalgia bones the way I wanted them to, or did they suck because they were so sloppy and badly written and nearly nonsensical that it’s impossible not to point out their glaring flaws. And again- were the original films much better, or is that sentiment? I think both, but primarily the former.

PS @wisecrack if you want some writing samples 😬😬😬😉

I thought the ending was terrible. To try and make it better for myself I've added some of my own context and story in the background to try and make it better and more complete for myself. I like to think that bran... er, the 3 eyed raven, is legit awful. They are the architect for all the terrible shit going on just so that they could be king.

In 15-20 years, we'll get Game of Thrones: Brotherhood

thanks for the insights, I'm gonna look that up

In universe it was still unjustified and badly executed

@@majorfallacy5926 totally agree, it's just a thing that does make bran make more sense as a character and I never see it mentioned. I mean Brandon means "son of Bran" so it's a really on the nose allusion that nobody got because its alluding to a story few people outside of Wales would probably know. I mean I only pointed out a few connections but literally bran is just bran the blessed/Fisher king in GoT with a few minor tweaks. So I cant say that makes it better, but it at least made it make sense to me that Bran became king.

References and foreshadowing are not character development.

@@UdyKumra no, but character arcs are. Maybe actually go look at what I'm referencing because the whole point I'm making is that people didnt get the character arc because they didnt get the references and allusions in his story. Does that make it good or well written, no. However seeing as literally no one mentions bran the blessed while talking about Bran the Broken I'm pretty sure it just went over people's heads. Also, to be fair, theres a difference in no character development and you not liking the character development. Bran isn't the same character from episode 1 to the last episode so idk what the point is in just ignoring the definition of words.