Garden of Terror Update 

Alterac with Obj which diables structures LUL

@@derLenus alterac with sylvanases

Alterac w/o an interesting multi-layered objective, w/o a unique reward for capturing the obj, w/o the interesting push-and-pull of defending your prison while attacking there's, and pretty much everything else that makes Alterac fun and unique.

The new hanamura is just sky temple. They are just copying things.

They still need to balance alterac pass and make obj lose health as it walks like in spider tomb

To be fair you could say the old version was haunted mines + dragon shire

I'm thinking with the hanamura remake and this, Blizz is trying to add more map options into HGC.

It's a good question. Blizzard always goes with what works. It's been their MO since the beginning of time; never do something truly original when you can do what works and profit. I'd like to see completely original map mechanics too, but sometimes they suck, or people hate them. The obvious example is the original Garden of Terror. I'm guessing that once they decided to scrap it, they were reluctant to inject something ELSE that would be considered experimental, and just went with mechanics that people already tolerate. Like I said, that seems to be how, for better or worse, Blizz always operates as a matter of business philosophy.

Exactly, two of the most hated maps combined...

Because those maps are popular and old Garden wasn't. It actually looks fun now.

This map was so fun with The Lost Vikings or Cho and Gull in the terror. :(

I guess it was a bit too swingy to be salvagable. Terror was one of the worst designed objectives in the entire game. The combination of being invincible against buildings AND have the ability to outrun players was ridiculous, and made for an incredibly unfun experience fighting it. You had to constantly send multiple people to deal with it because it could do too much damage when unchecked, and even when you did it could use constantly sprint around the map while the rest its team got to wreak havoc uncountered.

Now I am scared that they may do the same for Dragon Shire, as in removing the playable Dragon knight...

The difference is that map is actually well balanced, fun, and not fundamentally broken. So there isn't any real need to heavily change it

NivMizzet89 Tychus chopped down terrors easy.

This seems like a pretty good bet.

And it spawns on three lanes

And half the map is useless.

@@jagetzuify and you have to kill minions on the points

That was my first thought.

I'm just go ahead and copy another comment: old GoT was no more unique than the new one. Old: Dragon Shire + Haunted Mines. New: Cursed Hollow + Tomb of the Spider Queen

Except that the "skulls" divide into both teams. They reset to 0 each time, while seeds you kept until a terror spawned at 100. Even possibly adding up to a second during the next night. So yeah, vastly different.

Except it's not vastly different, that's just a little detail. The general premise is still the same.

It actually is way different in terms of strategy and overall effect. You can't as easily sacrifice an objective cycle in old GoT as in Mines, where in mines you can say we're too far behind to contest so we're just going to do camps and soak lanes, maybe lose a fort and then get back in the game. With GoT you can't just give away the seeds as an enemy spawning 2 terrors to your 0 is going to likely be 3 forts or wose of impact. This however has nearly the exact same impact and strategy to how you want to play objectives as cursed hollow, and the same defense/attack push/pull nuances of tomb of the spider queen.

"Except that the "skulls" divide into both teams." Well, so do the seeds.

if anything, with this new update it'll feel more snowbally, just like alterac is.

A lot of my games are comebacks and garden doesn't seem any more snowbally than other maps. If anything, with a lategame terror and a good teamfight you can turn things around much easier than you could in many other maps.

I thought there would not be anything more snowbally than alterac pass, i was wrong.

Do you have rose tinted goggles or noob goggles? you don't remember having to chase it while it had speedboost with E and CCing your whole team with the Poly. If their team was following it they could use that CC and its damage to wipe your team. It also could level entire forts at level 4 if unchecked. This objective was awful to deal with and im glad its gone

@@DWlsh43 rose&run was terrible. Old (current) terror is better than new one. They are more like alterac cav rather than spiders, map obj is more simililar to alterac too. Rip terror map.

Did you even watch the video? The objective is nothing like Alterac. Way closer to Tomb and Cursed Hollow if anything.

No, they changed it to cured hollow of the spider queen

People keep forgetting that tomb of the spider queen is the original of it

On Alterac, you win or lose everything when the objective is won. Here you get to keep the progress towards your wave. You can also give up a seed as long as you can be sure, that the enemy won't get up to 3. So, this feels like a fusion of Tomb and Cursed Hollow than a reskinned Alterac. It also has more merc camps and no boss camp, which is also a huge difference.

Uh, you didn't watch the video, did you? It's not even remotely anything like Alterac Pass' objective.

I do worry it won't matter as they'll release this and claim it as a success.

Blizzard can be quite stubborn when they think they are right.

You got that right. "Working as intended"

@@Clavitz1 yeah, now what for blizzcon items

It's the reason I play HotS over other MOBAs. Unique heroes and map mechanics. Yet the last several major updates (good or bad, like ammo removal) seem to just push towards making the game bland.

Blizzard's copying Riot Games' business model here... and it's NOT a good thing for us.

Blizzard doesn't even support competitive HOTS anymore.

Can that please be the official name #thegardenofalteracspiderhollow

It's like Alterac when just launched, a BIG; SNOWBALL OF NO-FUN. I mean, they said Braxis was snowbally, but have the snowballs to go pushing maps like Alterac or this. It's not even funny anymore.

Or The garden of Spider Pass

The problem is that even these maps are too difficult for people to do or understand. I've been playing all weekend, and cannot even get people to come to the objective. All they want to do is pretend it's ARAM, all the time. And then dive 1v5 over and over. Then call people toxic because you're pointing out that what they're doing is destroying the game.

@andrew finneli you must be extremely low level. higher player levels everyone goes to objective

No dude, its alterac pass 2.0, think about it

i say its a mix of them. sucks tho

ya, definitely more like alterac pass. alterac probably got the three laning objectives though from spider queen.

I'm not surprised anymore, germans have words for almost everything

Do you conjugate it as ich verschlimmbessere or verschlimmbessre? :D Honestly.

Gábor Madarász the second one is common in a speaking manner in some region, but I would be really confused if the first one is not the usual written way to go. It is actually like the verb „verbessern“, just putting a „schlimm“ between the outer parts of it.

Considering European history, it's not entirely unexpected that the Germans have a word for this. Might need it again soon.

There is also in polish such word .... Spierdolenie!!!

THE HORROR.

Couragethecowarddog nah, you gotta kill minions surrounding the statue to summon a puni- I mean dragon knight.

This actually made laugh out loud, it's funny because it's true

The day they change dragonshire is the day I uninstall for good.

Don't be silly, they will make it so that while you channel the center dragon it will fire dragon breath at forts and keeps.

Undead2k totally agree we play hots for 2 resons, 1. it has tons of things that make it stand out from other MOBAs (Cho Gall, lost Vikings) and unique map objects and stream lining them is a disservice to what hosts is. 2. The huge roster of characters we already know

Sam

We have controlled vehicles on two other maps already. And the drops of seeds was pretty much like the skull drops on Haunted Mines. They just switched the choice of existing features. Nothing unique before and after,

The Vehicles are all unique. Different damage, attack time and abilities plus every players uses them differently. I'd prefer to have 10 vehicle maps over 3 channeling maps. I am very disappointed by this update and this game rarely brings something which I don't like, in fact this is the very first one which made me deliberately hit the dislike button. There are better ways to fix this map without getting repetitive. I like the new map layout with the seed locations but in my opinion the controlled terror should stay and not the spawn-a-thing-in-every-lane like we have Alterac and Tomb already. If the reward for the channeling objective was a new version of the player controlled terror with altered or different abilities I wouldn't mind the buildup to be like Cursed Hollow since the outcome is still unique. Makes me wonder if the old Hanamura boss will become a future Vehicle. It would make for an interesting more fighting/pickoff based Vehicle with its Gorge ability and high damage AoE ring.

"The map was unique." Haha, no.

Kaze Black how was the controllable terror unique if you’re claiming the three lane push isn’t? Just like Alterac and Tomb have three lane push, Volskaya amdDragon Knight have controllable objectives. Even if their skillsets are different, it’s basically the same thing. More than the terror, the volskaya controllable is much more unique in the sense that 2 players can control if if they want.

The Garden was the strongest pushing power of them and had good fighter capabilities, however the overgrow could be destroyed, leaving the vehicle almost useless if you get little value out off the ability. The protector is better at killing people rather than pushing, despite the Root which disables forts the way I prefer playing him is to get kills over forts (apart from the very first one that spawns), and then get structures after you've cleaned up. With its long range it is definitely the best fighter but you need to have two people inside. Dragon has nice waveclear and is in the middle of the two, apart from that it isn't really superior at anything nor is it bad. Getting a pickoff with the kick is rather rare as this requires the target to be very low or you got to be very precise kicking them backwards where either your team or your structures are. The Vehicles all have different properties which make them better or worse in certain situations. For example, if you take the Dragon and your team gets overrun in the fight, there really isn't too much you can do apart from kicking one person away. Your dragon will get pummeled on and you will likely die. With the Triglav you can help your team out more with the Aoe and help mitigate the damage and shield your teammates, maybe get some pickoffs and still pull ahead this way and with the Garden the enemy's engage would likely not even be successful as you can just Poly and then hard engage on them. They all play very differently if you maximize their potential. Of course they don't feel very different if you just head straight mid and hit the fort a couple times. If you look at them at their maximum value they're all unique snowflakes and they could make many more with their own little set of tricks, like the Hanamura boss for example.

Garden of terror and fun in one sentence without a "not" in it. Doesn't make any sense. Sure this rework aint great but garden right now is terrible. Absolutely terrible

Setharias least hated map i believe And now is turning to a fast pased map, like the ones that players dislike

ya, adon, cause they recently removed it from rotation, you obviously are a noob to the game. garden of terror was fun the way it was

I liked GoT, most wins on that map. Now they're just removing every single map Abathur can be played on :D

WHY IS GAMORA?! you'll always have Sky Temple

Only things I hated was the polymorph spam and two terrors at the same time. If they just removed the poly from the Terror and restricted it to one terror on the map at a time, it would've been fine.

It was the chaotic nature of the map. People were all over the place, without any understanding for a team play. The dead teammate is frantically pinging a seed boss, one person is grabbing a camp, one is in the terror getting burned down by the whole enemy team, Zag is pushing a fort wall...

It's frustrating to play a map where you have high chance of lossing even if your team plays better. It shouldn't happen very often, for QM it's fine but for HL is just trash.

I liked the polymorph. It made creative use of it rewarding and spamming it not so rewarding. I mean sure you can get polymorphed either way but a seasoned player is going to know how to avoid it anyway (ie: stutter stepping).

Sawovsky Sorry to hear your bronze adventures, bud.

The community being loud is why it's being changed, cause the majority of us hate it.

Patches McGrouch Judging by the comments and like/dislike ratio, you sir/madame are actually in the minority.

This is maybe the best map. I link HOTS with this map.

apparently not majority, since the downvotes show otherwise

so ? the Terror is not a vehicle anymore, which is good imo, but Cursed Hollow and Tomb are one of the most liked maps in the game, and the Terror still has its core set making it a good pushing tool, how you get the objective may be familiar, but the objective effect itself is totally different compared to tomb or cursed hollow or even alterac on that matter...

you missed the point completely

They seems to take that route now, just look at the murders of all specialist, they are going the same way as the dodo.

having another PvE map with little more PvP does not make the map enjoyable in any way shape or form

Sadly I think the gameplay mechanics peaked in the beta, honestly half of this maps pretty much just play themselves now, its boring and rips any team play.

Ah yes, it definitely wasn't just a Dragon Shire Mines of Terror before.

hanamura is changed from lame moving towers of doom to lame moving sky temple

@@iceklaus that's true, but Sky Temple IS actually much better than towers of doom, so...

I still don't like hanamura, to me this map is stupid, and the payload mechanic should not be in a game like this.

But lets be real.. this map was already like the dragon map in terms of controlling a threat - controlling the terror also wasn't unique.

Lmao. Literally everyone hated it and thought it one of the worst maps in the game. But you do you.

Well, they were not really unique anyway. You enter the Garden Terror just like you enter the Dragon Knight. And monsters drop seeds just like the skeletons drop skulls on Haunted Mines.

If it was uninteractive why didnt they nerf it like when Volskaya got a buff because the objective was actually trash that only 1 player in HL controls the protector?

Garden of Terror was probably tied with Blackhearts Bay and Haunted Mines for the least popular maps in the game.

I don't see how deleting unique mechanics and replacing them with copies from other maps is a satisfactory solution here. That's just boring and less map diversity. Wish Blizzard came back with something stronger …. :(

I think they're overthinking things.

Funny because this is the third map to have "dudes that spawn and go down each lane".

@@Someone-xn6yh well naturally I'm exaggerating, but when one of the core pillars of the game is the map design, 3 maps with the same mechanic out of a possible 15 is quite a lot and that's just this type, the other types are all very similar too. Part of what made this game fun was it's map variety. And besides that as someone that doesn't really play hots much anymore, from the outside looking in, this doesn't look like an improvement and judging by the dislikes, it's not looking great from the inside either

Jambu Before this change 3 maps also had the vehicle mechanic.

@@Someone-xn6yh it's still a missed opportunity to make gardens into something different and fresh. At the VERY least I see no reason to have removed the day/night cycle which was part of the maps identity and part of what made it unique visually. They could easily have kept day/night in this new version, they just took it out because ???? Reasons?

I think the original map would work real good as a two lane map

i actually like the old map, this new rework will def worsen the issue, you can simply have vikings push 2 lanes while the rest pressure the 1 last lane. with the root building ability it can prob tear forts and keeps faster than alterac pass objectives

Agreeing with Esajaan... Just changing the map to two lanes instead would probably work way better. People compeeting over a single Terror in the jungle and more seed camps in a cramped area would make it much more fightfocused too

esajaan That would make it a bit too much like Haunted Mines though wouldn't it? Like the idea though, this three lane push that's reminiscant of Alterac doesn't seem like a fun change, but let's play before we judge.

Yeah I like how they got rid of the vehicle that a lot of people thought was annoying and then put three of them simultaneously pushing your towers with zero defense hahahahahaha

I agree for the most part but I feel that the hots team listens to its players the most of any blizzard team. An example of this is hanamura. It's just this map rework came from out of nowhere and no one really asked for it. Before I would tell you that garden of terror was even the most balanced map since it wasn't too hard to comeback from the enemy team beating you to the objective. But they changed that and that's what I believe is the problem.

This right here.

I think that last message was a bit harsh. I agree that the old garden terror felt a bit more unique (yes I acknowledge dragon knight and protector, no they aren't the same), and I don't exactly like this change. However, there have been multiple quality of life changes over the years that fans have suggested that blizzard could've ignored or decide not to bother with, but have. This isn't a change that is liked by the community, but there's no need to say they don't care, they do, they just happened to release something that people didn't desire. Good intentions, bad execution, not them being ignorant and ignoring their fans.

I'm a gaming community leader for || [LoDG]-League of Dependable Gamers ||. A person can write literally any positive/negative comment in response to a general, and more so personal response. I am no moderator or a fan that takes sides. This is neither a thread nor topic board. I simply address my feeling towards this current change, and my communities feelings on blizzards recent rework actions. No more, no less. End of discussion for me.

Well that's fair. Wouldn't exactly know what you being a community leader has to do with the discussion, nor did i mention you being a fan or moderator, but I get your point. I kinda consider the comment's section a topic board, with topic being the video above, but hey, that's just me and I understand that. If it seemed like I was trying to demean your comment in some way, I'm sorry. I only meant to state that blizzard makes mistakes. That doesn't mean that them making a mistake has them not listening or caring about their player's input. Again, don't mean any disrespect, just playing devil's advocate a little bit.

commandervulkan x2

I liked it too.

I was fine with the original set up. Why didn’t they just make a new map?

Dozens of us

I loved having a map with 35 minutes games where you ended lvl 27. The only thing i would have changed is the late game terror dmg, it was like 5 hits to destroy core

By alterac you mean spider tomb 2.0

@@ayoubp7689 Instead it's not delivering collectables, but getting a spotted objective

@@djalexgarcia98 Yeah, just like in Cursed Hollow.... AS THEY MENTIONED IN THE VIDEO!!!

I think they're trying to make it a one map game like Dota.

Yep basically same, just not as annoying

Polymorph spam was cancer, the two terror at the same time sucked cause it split the team. Old Garden can rot.

look at the like/dislike ratio of this clip and you will see that most people don't like the stupid rework.

Why can't I dislike Patches' comment?

What was wrong with the old GoT? I liked the Vehicle and being the terror. I mean they could have made this a different map all together and just change the motif. Like a mines map and you awaken freaking crystal elementals by collecting bits for your totem. Ah well

I don't get it... was the old map even broken. Now they've removed what made garden terror unique.

I agree, way too similar to Alterac pass... the Terror(s) here should be kept rideable! GoT was unique in that of the three objective-controllable maps (DK, VF, GoT), it was the only one where you had to go back home to ride it. Now you don't have to keep all these mechanics, but please keep the Terrors rideable (like VF at least). It's one of the few things that keeps HotS unique from other MOBAs at this point.

Agreed way to similar to Alterac pass. The original battleground was fine and fun

I think now it's more like Cursed Hollow. Gather 3 and you get rewarded with pushed lanes and disabled forts.

"Now I guess its more easy for typical MOBA players that can't adapt. :(" *Fixed

I only hated how dark the night cycle was on my screen. other than that it was fine.

@@BeefyBoulders It's about the same as on tomb of the spider queen. And the map was beautiful and MEANT for day night as if you looked closely the map would change (npc go inside houses, etc) really sad.

It was much worse. I never had a problem with spider queen but couldn't stand night time in garden. Spider queen has light sources all over the map to make it work.

Also, rip a good and unique map which we used to love. Welcome another generic spawn npcs to push lane map.

Did you not watch the video? It’s still there.

Well old Garden was nothing to begin with.

We lost azmo as well...

"We have curses. We have spiders/alterac. We've lost Garden and gained nothing." Best summary thus far!

We gained a generic map... which is what people actually wanted. There is a reason GoT was one of the most hated maps while maps like Curse and TotSQ is top 3.

I actually really like new Azmo.

Many people did ask for a Garden Terror rework, since the original felt too static. But this is definitely not what people wanted.

The rework is necesary because Garden Terror is ultra broken, but now the map is like Tomb of the Spider Queen or Alterac Valley.

How was it broken? Honestly asking.

@@kulitmed I never saw it as broken, but i honestly loathed the map. I didnt really enjoy the mechanics of the garden terror vehicle, but thats just my personal opinion.

it isn't on the rotation cause they took it off recently, used to be on the rotation all the time as of a few weeks ago. i personally loved the old map. i don't like this new one at all.

Same

I also think the old one was very nice , but ok that's not make the game worse.

no

I think the night phase is still there

Yep

Yep, I'm pretty sure, it was the most disliked map after BHB and Mines.

MK and i loved the day/night shift

But so broken.

Until you get Leeroy Jenkins in the terror trying to kill minions for globes and doing jack squat.

Only 2 other BGs have this mechanic Before it was the same for the vehicle mechanic- GoT, VF and DS all had the vehicle mechanic. Personally I found it boring and detrimental to the team when someone who didn't know what they were doing piloted the thing. Now they've just switched GoT over to the "NPC 3 lane" mechanic for the push phase, and the "collect one thing at a time" mechanic instead of "collect as many as you can!" It was already a mash-up of Haunted Mines' collection mechanic and DS' vehicle mechanic, they just changed it to replicate other mechanics. Garden of Terror was never a good map. Y'all are acting like it was 'original' before the rework.

Agreed. The splittable objective value was a problem, yet they should’ve found a way to keep the vehicle, it’s so fun to use

the last two released maps have unique mechanics XD

It's all to appease the Pro Scene which will never get popular because LoL exists.

LordSathar, Or maybe it's because no one actually liked playing this crappy map.

Most people dont share that opinion. Chasing terrors all over the map was the #1 complaint for this map, and part of why it was the most hated map in general.

Pro scene? It was the most hated map by the general public.

So you'd rather have 1 less good map in the game because it's similar to other maps, lmao what?

This is basically Tomb without having to collect gems. I'd much rather only play Tomb or Cursed. This is looks just boring. Would rather have no Garden of Terror than an extra flavour of already really similar maps.

Assuming this is a good map, which seems it isn't.

Someone I used to love garden, controlling the terror with murky or TLV, but now it’s just another alterac/tomb with a garden theme, removing the unique features to make the gameplay boring

MrSlyker SHOULD'VE removed it instead

Hmm, did you recognize a lot of the more critical high voted comments seem to have...disappeared?

+Kaze Black I definitely noticed. There are at least 5 I commented on that called them out on some serious bullshit.

so the skull collection mechanic + dragon knight was unique to you?

The golems are not player controlled and there are only 100 skulls total per round. There are more seeds than skulls during every night cycle, but during the first there won't be enough for both teams to get a Terror. The Garden Terrors are player controlled, and unlike the golems which_always_come up as a pair, depending on how things go, two Terrors can be active at once, requiring the teams to make some choices about how they use them, but just as often only one will be out at a time. The Golems do nothing but charge down their lane on a two-lane map. The Terrors have three lanes to choose from and knowing the best uses of their abilities is key to making the best of your time with them. The Golems also last until destroyed, the Terrors are on limited time. These objectives do not resemble each other in any way beyond the collectable currency to summon them, and one of them is summoned at will, requires a pilot, and lives on borrowed time. The other does not.

This map was trash and among the most hated.

By who?

Everyone who knows how to play and proplayers

Give them a couple of years and the maps will turn to summoner's rift 😒😒

Ya makes me sad when I go back to old favorites and there completely different.

I miss towers with ammo

I can't wait for the game to just end up being league/dota but with no items, then I can stop playing it.

Your point is a just a tad absolute, my friend. There's no way that any of the recent changes or additions haven't contributed at least something to the unique flavor of HotS. Yeah, maybe that flavor's been watered down by some very bland stuff, but they're still adding to the flavor. Admittedly, this change makes me worried, though, as well as the two recent heroes (Whitemane and Mephisto) who have some nice qualities buuut some very distasteful ones too -_-

No it's Cursed Hollow & Tomb of the Spider Queen... are you guys even watching the video?

It works just like the Alterac map.

Gianluca Daniele Di Maggio alterac+tomb+cursed hollow, 3 obj through collecting 3 tributes

I think making more seed camps but with fewer gains would make it more about how quickly you can gather them and less about baiting at the two boss camps. I also think changing the day/night cycle to be fixed in real time rather than dependent on the shambles would support this, forcing the teams to make the best of their time when seeds are available.

They take a lot of time for new maps. Alterac is still quite new here. But the most important thing is to fix existing maps before rolling out new ones. Only BHB needs to be reworked now

Chris C just saying that the map in my opinion didnt need to get fixed and they could rather use their time creating new objectives instead of mixing them up and throwing away the original objective plus you can no longer enter the terror wich was pretty awesome and original to have in a moba

Problem is this will literally just roll meta even more up the lane of teamfight heroes. Garden terror was one of the most popular maps, because teams could decide to avoid teamfights and still get obj, or rush right into the fights. This is some Esport competitive players preference change, not a change to encourage playstyle variety.

the same thing thats wrong with blackhearts bay ... nothing. except reddit dipshits whine about it for some reason because there isnt enough pvp

+ Jason Epps I agree with everything you said except I think this change made it more PVE. THIS MAP NEEDED MORE ACTUAL PVP! Not "hey gaiz, letz go pve that terror/shambler thing and get stomped because we don't expect an ambush".

The best way to fix it was to just put 1 Garden terror spawn point instead of two, so the two teams can meet up and fight for it, which is the point.

Everyone who isn't a casual in Platinum or above complained. Being polymorphed for years and playing tag with the Terror wasn't fun.

I think it had to do with the fact that it took too long for teams to end a match on GoT, especially if 1. A team that secured a terror didn't know how to push with it effectively 2. Experienced teams could just feed inexperienced teams if they wanted to. Nothing we really complained about because players who had these kinds of problems aren't really the type to voice their grievances on forums (and instead become incredibly toxic)

Learn from Riot,dont listen the "pros"

@@jyrolys6 So what? That's the minority of the playerbase.

+jyrolys6 if you are Platinum or above as you say, you should be perfectly able to deal with the terror.

Too late my friend. Too late...

This was even more so when it first came out and you could strafe lanes with plant bombs and it did damage on its own. Ah... When HotS was still fun. =\

I mean, Garden of Terror was one of the most hated maps on Reddit & other forums

That means literally nothing, it's obvious from reading the comments on this video that people liked the old map.

@@16m49x3 In what world do the voices of a large part of the community mean literally nothing? The reason why it seems that way on this video is because the rework isn't very creative, and thus there aren't many people who will say "Thank you for reworking this map!", because odds are those people are either unhappy enough with the rework to leave a negative comment, or they're not interested enough in the rework to leave positive feedback. Either way, though, I'm just letting y'all know this wasn't out of nowhere. A highly vocal part of the community said they disliked this map; those people on this video who say this was their favorite map should have been more vocal about that.

define large? I'm pretty sure the active userbase on reddit is only a fraction of the active playerbase of HoTS, not to mention that the vocal minority on reddit, also is a fraction of the users on reddit as a whole. And that the vocal lot always complains about the status quo. Nobody makes posts on reddit about how they really like something that already exists. Unless it's exceptional. And really nothing in HoTS is exceptional

Xanthanarium sounds like a typical Redditor overstating their importance to any given community. Seriously, Garden Terror was a good map. I could see them reworking Towers of Doom, Hanamura (forever it seems), and Temples but this? Seriously? Nah.

They are out of ideas and want to make the game "easier" for...new players? Too hard? no worries the objective will push by itself -___-

@Daniel Séredin yeah now it's better? Listen to yourself lmao

Not in ranked

really ? i never really played Ranked so i wouldn't have known that

@@darkmight3964 LOL. It is not in ranked for a reason dude

Oh, you played it already? Where? Right, didn't think so. Maybe come back when you've actually played the map to tell us how it "feels"

Unbalanced?

They lose their crazy for trying to make the game competitive. The fact HotS exists already makes it competitive against the "same standard experience" you get from most mobas.

In a year that will all be gone. Azmodan was the first casualty.

Yes it was more than 1.5 years ago but it was Probius (March 2017), not Medivh.

missed opportunity when they made Mephisto an "assassin" when he ought to be specialist

Junkrat too