Gatekeeping in the ASL Community | ASL Ponderings/Vlogmas Day 5 

Deaf community: It's so difficult when hearing people don't know how to sign! hearing person: learns sign language Deaf community: unless you're deaf, sign since childhood or an interpreter with immaculate signs and grammar you're not allowed to! hearing person: uninterested in sign language Deaf community: ok, why aren't people trying to learn

Im an interpreter and I can remember vividly from my ITP a Deaf Professor lecturing to the entire class. “Hard of Hearing people need to pick a side, either you’re hearing or you’re Deaf. Pick one” I could not BELIEVE what was being ‘taught’ to us. At the time I had 3 friends who were Hard of Hearing and learned some ASL in adulthood and they ALL said the same thing. “ I really struggled growing up, i wish i could have learned ASL earlier” I HAD to say something so I commented, “but many hard of hearing people don’t have a choice in the matter. They’re told that is who they are at a young age, and that they ‘can hear enough’ that they don’t need to learn ASL.” What are these HoH kids supposed to do when they reach adulthood and get exposed to ASL? Do you expect them to drop EVERYTHING they’ve known their friends, family, and entire way of life for the Deaf community? Are they not ‘valid’ if they don’t? Its DHH, not just D. Let’s not exclude people just because they’re not the ‘perfect’ models of ASL.

As a hearing learner, I can relate to this. It's not so much interactions that I've had personally, thankfully. Every interaction I've had in real life has been wonderful so far. It's more about what people online constantly tell me counts as “disrespecting the language”. Signing badly? That's disrespecting the language, because your bad signing might influence other learners. Subconsciously letting English influence your ASL? That's disrespecting the language because it shows that you still don't understand that ASL and English are different languages. Imagine having this attitude towards immigrants to English-speaking countries. If we told them not to speak English until they got better at it, in case their bad English influences other English learners. If we took every case of confusion between English and their native language as a Freudian slip showing that they don't understand that English is a real language.

I remember being shocked when I saw the statistics on how many hearing parents of deaf children never learn sign language. The kind of people you are talking about would actively discourage those parents from learning a language that would allow them to raise their child with an ability to communicate fluently. I find that really horribly sad.

This is why I left/don't get involved in all ASL/deaf Facebook groups except my local deaf community ones. Raises my stress levels too much.

I really appreciate this. I grew up teaching myself sign language (I was labelled both as a "gifted learner" and a "very lonely child," so yeah) and after years of nonstop signing to myself, it's an inseparable part of my own natural language. I can't keep my hands from signing along with my speech most of the time, and while I used to try to hide it, I now embrace it fully. Heck, now I'm working in a special education preschool and seen so many kids (deaf, autism, down syndrome, WHATEVER) thrive just because I could introduce them to ASL and give them their first language. I'm not deaf, I'm not who this language was designed for, but it's a nonnegotiable part of who I am and I'm not stopping for a damn gatekeeper.

I, myself is deaf, will always welcome anyone. Even when a person tells me that they know sign/ASL and that made me smile. Thank you for sharing this.

Fantastic video. It feels like for some of the deaf community, the rest of us will never be "deaf enough" and that makes any involvement at all terrifying, at least for me.

Rogan Shannon for president, 2020. Would love to hear more about this. As a hearing person trying to become fluent in ASL and volunteering in the Deaf community fairly regularly, I would be shaken I think if someone disregarded my efforts to learn ASL and to work alongside them. Thankfully this hasn't happened to me. I've experienced some bluntness but I've heard that's part of the Deaf community. At the slightest perceived mistake I'll make the sign for "I'm sorry" only to have a deaf person wave it off and say "Don't apologise" basically. It was a shift for me to use my hands first over my mouth. It reminded me of when I met an older woman from Japan. I knew I should have bowed but went to shake hands instead and she bowed. Then I bowed and she reached for my hand lol. It's a culture shift and learning with grace. I think what you were getting at is we're all human with different experiences and stories. Let's not be elitist jerks. And if we slip up and are, let's apologize and remedy it. Am I close? Thanks for your honesty in your vlog. It's refreshing to approach topics honestly like this and then end with open discussion, I think.

I love this video. Thank you for making this! Growing up deaf in a hearing family can be so isolating when you have no idea that a community exists and then later learn that you may/may not be accepted because of your background. I've had a really hard time learning ASL too because of neuromuscular paralysis in my hands/wrists. I've never felt like I can participate fully in an ASL community because of my physical disability and background.

Hearing adult learner of ASL here. I've been studying for a year. I've been regularly attending ASL meetups that specifically indicate new signers welcome. Everytime I go, I meet one or two deaf people like this., I can barely get thru introductions before they turn their back on me. I'm glad there are many other people I get to spend the afternoon chatting with, but this attitude seems ever present.

I'm so glad you're out here making content. I'm so tired of "5 things not to say to Deaf people" videos. It's nice to see a post about a complex social issue that gives me something to chew on. And this concept has such great impact along all minority communities. I've witnessed and sadly perpetrated my own share of gatekeeping in the queer community, specifically in regards to bisexuals. But is great to see something that's not just fluff.

This makes a lot of sense. I have come across a few people in online groups with this type of attitude. I live in a really rural area, so I rely on Facebook and other technology to keep me in touch with other signers. I'm hearing and I started learning ASL 10 years ago for my cousin, who is Deaf, and I fell in love with the language and the culture. But, we live 7ish hours away from each other so we're not together all the time. I posted a video in ASL on my personal Facebook page and I had a person that I had encountered in a group (who I wasn't friends with; somehow the setting on the video was public) write a long comment about how I think that I sign perfect ASL , I need a reality check, she can see that I'm mostly self-taught, I shouldn't be recording myself because it's not ASL enough, etc. I make videos in order to receive feedback from other, more skilled signers and to be able to watch my own progress. Also, to share my passion with my family and friends! I don't post public videos teaching ASL or anything like that. And I definitely don't think I sign perfect ASL--far from it! My desire to keep learning and interacting with people who sign differently so that I'm exposed to different styles, regional signs, personal variations, etc. I know I will always have room for improvement. But I have also met a lot of really cool people who I can have great conversations with and who help me learn as we build friendships!

Thank you. Having been born hearing, become Hard of Hearing in my teens, and having a steadily progressive loss (currently a severe mid-frequency loss) I have started studying ASL a few times over the years only to find that I can't find any access point into the community. I'm not hearing enough to become an interpreter (though I'm going to need interpreters soon) and be of use, and not Deaf enough to be one of them. It's *so frustrating*

Hi! Late comment but I'm so glad that I found your channel! I'm a hearing HKSL signer and here in Hong Kong the deaf community is trying so hard to encourage as many people as possible to learn their language and raise awareness for the community. I understand that being a fluent native language user is an important identity, but welcoming other people to participate is also important for the language to thrive. Couldn't agree with you more!

I had this problem happen to me more than once. I was made fun of in college by other deaf students because I wasn't born deaf, hadn't gone to a deaf institute like them, and my signing wasn't on par with theirs because I didn't learn sign until I was much older. Even my own teacher would constantly challenge my signing skills & get upset with me. Deaf events were never fun because there's always these kinds of people there and when I'd try to talk with other deaf people in the community or ask them for help, how to sign something, they'd just give me a snobby look and tell me "I don't know", ignore me, and talk to someone else. That's why I don't go to the events anymore.

Love this perspective … as someone who went Deaf at 18 and took every opportunity to learn ASL from the start. Graduated with an ASL Teaching degree and still get told I’m “not Deaf enough”. I appreciate you!!!

I absolutely agree with your statements! I miss the beginning of ASL That as it used to be a business casual, but today it is completely different. I feel a lot of egotism staring at the page all day waiting to shut people down instantly. Also this is the other reason why I lost the motivation to pursue in becoming a certified Deaf interpreter. This is definitely saddening to see how Deaf people are competing and proving against each other that one has the best knowledge of ASL than others, which in fact is not true.

Hearing here: Good for you for speaking your mind on this, elitism can be so suffocating and I think you did an awesome job expressing that.

@Rogan Shannon, I appreciate your calling attention to this topic. I have witnessed and experienced a LOT of this over the years. I began to recognize it as a kind of cultural bullying or oppression from within the culture. I find it to be spiritually divisive. And I understand that it is bred in a kind of protectiveness, that I believe is a result of audism and oppression. It just seems that in these moments we are not honoring the diversity within our community and/or honoring one's right to their own development, or what I would call, their Deafhood Journey. To me that is sacred, and we need to be more respectful of each other. So, yes, thank you for this topic.

Hi, 1st time here. I completley understand what you are saying. I have a few times annouunced that I'm a CODA as well as an intetpreter....I ONLY do that to help. I would NEVER push any person away trying to learn ASL. I enocurage people to learn the language. It is 2023 and still to this day people amaze me because they do not understand the word DEAF. I'm completly baffled by people. Spanish, French, so on and so on we know it and what they need to to communicate with someone who does not know that language, why do people still in 2023 not understand DEAF, or even ASL Interpreter? If you are leaning, please continue to learn and do not let others discourage you from learning. It's a beautiful language to learn. I am grateful that I know it, I try to bridge that gap every single day.

This is why I never interact with other deaf/HoH people. I've lost my hearing slowly over the past few years. You basically have to prove you "deaf enough" to interact with them. Hearing people get annoyed because I dont hear them and the deaf community doesnt think I'm valid enough. It happens A LOT, not just to me either.

I realize this is late but thank you for this! Growing up I always had to use subtitles to watch tv and stuff like that because my brain wasn't processing what was playing unless I saw what was going on and I often can't communicate with people unless they directly face me and that's still the case today. I went to the audiologist a year ago and got tested for my hearing and it turns out I had auditory processing issues and after speaking with a Deaf friend, they started to teach me signs in ASL because they considered me part of the D/deaf and HoH community. And especially as an queer indigenous person who's not only learning ASL but PISL ( Plains Indigenous Sign Language or Hand Talk ) which is an endangered language on its own that was historically used for both D/deaf and HoH Natives but hearing Natives, as well, for multiple different reasons, I feel like it's my duty to learn those signs, especially because they predated and were often the predecessor for ASL and other colonial sign languages. I also was diagnosed earlier this year with USDD/DID and a few of my system members are nonverbal so learning signs and using an AAC device is essential for them to communicate, and there are times when I go nonverbal due to intense stress, so signing is a very essential thing for me and I often don't know what my place is in the community, especially because only one member in my family was D/deaf and HoH and would lipread and not sign at all, so seeing this really makes me feel a little better and more proud of myself.

THANK YOU, Rogan. I respect that I'm not welcome in some Deaf communities because I'm not a strong ASL signer, and I understand that, but your videos have really helped me to feel more confident in myself and not ashamed that my sign is English-influenced. It's still communication, and it's how I'm able to increase my access as a HH person. It didn't help when I avoided signing because I was afraid that people would judge my grammar.

I agree with you and I loved watching you sign. I’m hearing but I recently picked up asl again after 10 years and I enjoy it. I’m not gonna let anyone discourage me from learning it again. No, I’m not a native speaker but I can learn. I just want the opportunity to. 😊thanks for sticking up for us😅

I have had very similar experiences in my own community living on Maui trying to learn Hawaiian Language. It saddens me to say but the language of my people is shrinking, and somehow even still we have Hawaiian speakers or people of Hawaiian ancestry with elitist attitudes turning away open and willing people by being unwelcoming because they’re not of Hawaiian ancestry or not from Hawaii, or are not proficient enough at the language, etc. You lose the growth of a language, community, and culture when you turn willing people away from learning. I’ve been interested in ASL since elementary when my 4th grade teacher taught the class to sign the Star Spangled Banner. A few months ago I started working with special needs children and have met many with speech or auditory difficulties that use some form of sign language. Since then I’ve decided to learn ASL through online sources to better communicate with them, wish me luck! 😊 And thank you for this video, it’s always nice hearing the perspectives of open minded people like you. ❤

You are discussing a really important aspect of the deaf community & ASL students, etc. Thank you for sharing your ponderings- I ADORE your vlogs.

I am hearing, and an ASL Student. This was really interesting to see because I have mostly seen deaf people very open to new learners, but also have been afraid to interact with the community because of some rude people gatekeeping. but then how can a community grow and thrive if new people are not allowed? very interesting. thank you for your video

I’m glad I saw this! I got a CI because I didn’t have access to ASL. It’s helped a bit but I’m still struggling and decided to pick up ASL anyway. I finally found places to learn online that I didn’t know about when I got the CI. I know I’m going to meet people who hate CIs in the community and it’s good to know this will be a thing as well. So thank you for making this. I hope the positive comments outnumber the negative for you.

I've watched a lot of communities made up of a special interest, or of people with a certain type if marginalization, have a few people do this kind of gatekeeping. It's exhausting to fight it, and also fight your own biases, and try to encourage healthy learning - while attempting ti navigate around gatekeepers - some of whom are also manipulative abusers in some way, leveraging "time served" as legitimacy as the grand arbiter, and giving them access to new people to choose who can be accepted or discarded. I was warned that putting so much effort into organizing, and arguing for healthier spaces would burn me out - and it did. But you do what you can, while you can to make the community better for yourself, and those alongside and behind you. Communities change and evolve. Elitism does not help build robust, dynamic communities. Radical expectations of people learning, growing, sharing, and being held to a standard of doing better than that harmful mistake you made before - that's building community.

I have something kind of similar as I'm hard of hearing, which means that I'm part of the hearing world and deaf world. The problem is that I'm not fully in one or the other. And it's something that I'm wary about when joining some kind of online community as I'm not *really* deaf like them, and I'm not Deaf either. Right now I'm learning BSL (I live in Britain) so that obviously means I'm not a native. Whether I will be fluent or not is another story, though it's a target for me as my hearing declines, but I'd like to think that I care about the community enough to learn how to communicate with them and get to know *their* culture. I'd like I have good intentions, but some people don't always see it that way. I agree with what you said, as it's a problem everywhere as you said. It doesn't mean I will stop trying to connect, but there may come a point where it gets tiring.

I recently learned that I will be deaf soon (54yo) and started to learn the alphabet today (I want to become functionally fluent in ASL) in hopes that I may find connection community and communication in the deaf world. I hope I meet open minded people like yourself out there and don't get my fingers slammed in the "gate"

The local Deaf chat is run primarily by some ASL instructors at a local college and their close buddy token Deaf friends. If you're not part of that network, it's hard to really be a part of the group. I'm HoH. I have HAs and I use ASL. So I use interpreters for classes and meetings. Job training. That sort of thing but I didn't grow up HoH. So some of them critique my style and use of ASL. The first time I went, one of the instructors was explaining a grammatical aspect of ASL. I already knew it but I paid attention. After the second time he had something to say, I directly asked if this was set up as a class or a social event because I was told it was a social event. Then you need to accept my style of ASL as equally valid. I learned ASL in Arizona and Utah and your style would be the different one there. He finally left me alone. "Maybe he meant well?" I think he did to an extent. But interrupting my conversation and the basis of his criticism being that I learned ASL as an adult was a pet peeve. I attended some college classes and a Deaf social center (choosing to be vague). It was different in Arizona and Utah. It wasn't perfect, but it was a much bigger community. I'm in a smaller community on the East Coast now.

How can anybody hate you after this video?! Elitists are a part of the reason I hesitate to show up to deaf events. I was on Facebook, I never came across a Deaf Facebook group that had a welcoming vibe, as there were always a few of those elitists present. What happens when someone tries to shut one of those elitists down? Surely there have been some attempts?

Thank you for this video. I am an a ASL student and I have gone to some deaf events. These events, the deaf in general were extremely welcoming! I was relieved as a very nervous new signer(hearing). However when I am on the internet, social media, deaf groups, they are overwhelmingly intimidating with long lists of how not to be an audist, to take feedback on how you are an audist and never be offended because you are hearing. It makes me question if learning ASL is worth the effort if I wouldn’t be accepted into conversation. I have no interest in changing anyones culture, I desire to sign more correctly than anyone else cares. It’s just overwhelming and when deaf individuals say “learn to sign! Take classes! Then you do and you are told, you will never be fluent enough and to kind of wear your hearing on your sleeve so all the deaf will know you don’t get it, act less than worthy of communicating in ASL. Idk. The events I went to, the people I met in real life, were so friendly, but I suppose the internet is where people share their true feelings, and those that want to “speak” the loudest will be seen.

I love this video. I wish more people felt able to say these things.

I'm not Deaf, but I have an auditory condition called misophonia. It's a condition where I have really bad reactions to specific sounds (sometimes physical sometimes just emotional) and I have a lot of guilt because of it. When it's at its worst, I find myself wanting to be Deaf and wanting to not have to hear anything because there's just so much potential for my misophonia to take over. I feel really bad because I don't want to force myself into a community where I don't really belong. I don't want to try to make my way into the community because of this condition. This video is really nice to see because it gave me a better understanding of the issues in the Deaf community. That's not to say that now I think that I belong in the community, I'm just thankful to know a little more about it.

Awesome video! Thank you soooo much for pointing it out about gatekeeping. I hated gatekeeping. It is not fair for folks like me who didn't grew up with deaf family or even didn't even learn sign language till later. Plus, some of the Deaf Culture will turn away from you if you have HA or CI. They have no idea what situation that I was in growing up nor care to, prolly. That is the biggest reason why us folks having trouble to fit in Deaf Culture. Feels like we aren't deaf enough to be in their clubs. Feh. They can do better and give us a chance. We are not trying to change anything but to feel belong and fit in. Isn't that too much to ask? Some of us are tired of being in the "Limbo Land" It sux! So again, thank you!!!

YES. this is definitely something that i feel i can relate to. i myself am hearing, have no Deaf family or Deaf friends, i started learning ASL six years ago because I saw an interpreter in a church one day and absolutely fell in love with the beauty of it. Honestly, I had no practical use for ASL, but over these past six years, i've come *immensely* far with the language. some days i'll think thoughts to myself about the language or specific aspects of the culture, so. many. thoughts. i'll go on and on- i'm not sure if i really understand how much i know about this language, this community, this culture. i've been mistaken for a Deaf person by a Deaf person before. native signers and ASL teachers have called me fluent, therefore that's my word for my ASL skills. i say, "i'm fluent in ASL." however, my answer to both of the questions that those specific people would ask would still be no. I'm not Deaf, I have no level of hearing loss, I'm not an interpreter, I didn't grow up signing, I didn't learn to sign because I know someone that's Deaf, in fact I live in a small town with an extremely *extremely* small Deaf community (so small that my Deaf ASL teacher said that if given the choice to become hearing she might, just because it's hard to really fit in with the Deaf community here because- there isn't really one. This is also the same reason why I've worked extremely hard over the last six years, become fluent with the language, done my best to interact with the Deaf community, although I've never been given a name sign.) It's a battle I've had with myself for a long time, because I've always thought- what am I to the Deaf community? What's my identity? (this is another thing that sucks about living in a town that has virtually no Deaf community- if there were Deaf events around here, I'd go to them and I'd interact with the community, and I'd probably be reassured that I have a place and my time and hard work has paid off, giving me a place within the community. But I don't have that, which leaves me questioning many of these things.) I want to be an ally, I want to be seen by Deaf people, but I don't feel like I have any- credentials. I don't like saying I'm an ASL student, even though I am, because I feel that many Deaf people will assume things- "hearing ASL student? probably has minimal knowledge about our community and our language and doesn't have a right to say things or make videos in ASL." I've also seen countless videos of hearing ASL students (who are beginners with the language, I can tell) either signing songs, teaching ASL, etc. and Deaf people tend to hate on them because "it's OUR language and they have no right to be teaching it." I get that, and that's why I'm scared to make and/or post videos of me explaining things (either in English or ASL) to people who don't know/understand those things. I've wanted to, and I've thought about it. But I feel like the Deaf community will find it and given that I don't have any credentials that really invite me into the Deaf community, they'll reject me; simply because I can't back up my knowledge with a statement like "I'm a CODA" or "my parents are interpreters" or "i'm in school to become an interpreter." I'm just a hearing 20-year-old who's spent 6 years of her life in love with a language that belongs to a community of people who may or may not accept her. this is very long and if you read all of it thank you :)

I was born hearing in a hearing family, and as i've gotten older i've started losing my hearing. I'm trying to learn ASL before I absolutely need to, and when people are like this and make it seem like hearing people who want to learn a language are "bad" because they're trying to steal someone else's language is really discouraging because it makes me feel like i'm completely stealing someone else's culture and that because I was born hearing, I don't belong. And it makes me realize how I'm not hearing enough to be a part of hearing culture but I'm not deaf enough to be a part of Deaf culture.

your type of signing is called contact signing! also known as PSE. very common and there's nothing wrong with using it. it's somewhere on a spectrum between SEE and ASL. it's hard to be strongly ASL based if you didn't grow up with it.

This! I learned SEE in my childhood, but didn't have much opportunity to use it (hearing here). After high school, I took an ASL class or two. I've had a few deaf friends throughout the years. And now, in my 40's, I've decided to go back to school to be an interpreter. Frankly, most deaf people I've interacted with are quite inviting and understanding that I'm still working on my receptive and expressive skills (especially w/ ASL since as I conversate, I drift back to English sign quite a bit). Anyway. I'm very discouraged about going through the interpreting program because of the same points in this video. I'm struggling to improve because in the back of my head I know I'm not perfect - I know I'll misunderstand. And it's attitudes like this that terrifies me. I understand I have hearing privilege, but I'm VERY interested in 'your' language. I find it more beautiful than any language I have HEARD. I don't know. Most of the Deaf/deaf community I have encountered have been good. Some have made in fun of my sign choices from time to time, but whatever. My final decision is to go through the program, but I think I'm going to go in a different direction: mental health. And I'd like to be available to the Deaf community that way.

I know I’m really late to the party, but thank you for this video. I’m a hearing woman in my 40’s who’s been drawn to signing since my first ASL course when I was 12 (early 90’s). I haven’t done much with it and forgot so much, yet I continue to feel and sometimes fight a pull towards ASL. I didn’t understand why and a huge imposter syndrome complex didn’t help, neither did realizing the less-than-encouraging attitudes of some in the deaf community. It wasn’t until I realized I’m autistic nearly 2 months ago that my urge to sign finally made sense. It’s nonverbal. Duh. (I have trouble with verbal communication-talking, speaking, etc.-I can do it but it drains me. Writing, however, is what I would call my native language.) And in light of all of this, I finally understand why I, as a hearing person without ties to the Deaf community, am so drawn to signing. Thank you for embracing those of us seeking to learn ASL. Some of us may be hearing but may have other impairments going on which make a visual language more appropriate and necessary, even if we can’t explain it.

I really enjoy your ponderings. I started learning ASL in November to be able to communicate with the Deaf community at my job. I appreciate your insight into social issues and hope you keep making content :)

I’m going to start by saying I’m hearing. I’ve been studying ASL for 4 years but could never get fluent because I have social anxiety and could never get the courage to talk to deaf people online (because there’s none in my area). This was because I’m aware of this hierarchy and it scares me a lot. I know I’m not deaf or fluent so I’ll be looked down upon. Especially on Facebook groups where all the communities seem to be

I love you, you're addressing issues that need to be brought into the spotlight. I've always been hesitant when meeting deaf people I don't already know, because I can never gauge if I'll be welcomed with open arms or if I'll be looked down upon for wanting to learn. I didn't realize this was a thing until I attended my first deaf event, where I was picked on and flat out ignored by the fluent signers.

Oh my goodness... I needed this video today. Been feeling a lot like I'm not "deaf enough" after an altercation in my community

I’m really glad you made this video. Seeing all of the gatekeeping involved in the deaf community really discouraged me from continuing to learn ASL, because I felt like because I could still hear (I have hearing loss, but not quite hard of hearing yet) and because I am accustomed to signing PSE/SEE, I would not be welcomed. I’ve literally seen members of the deaf community make asl content creators give up their passion (ASL) over all of the hate and bullying they’ve received. It’s really sad, because they fail to realize that hearing people are not trying to steal their language/culture, they are trying to connect to the deaf community. I’m glad there are people like you speaking out against that nonsense.

Thank you so much for making this video. I agree with you! I was born deaf (I had to wear hearing aids when my parents found out I was deaf at 3 years, when I hadn't hit my developmental stages, aka speaking, could only hear planes over the house or dad clapping loudly behind me to get my attention) I got sent to speech therapy and became very fluent in speaking English. My parents never thought to introduce me to ASL/Auslan, they thought it "wasn't necessary" as I spoke English well. It was sad because I probably would have benefited from being involved in the Deaf community, I would probably have more friends who I could relate to and I probably would not struggle to maintain relationships/friendships as I do now. I am currently learning ASL for VRChat and Auslan for where I live in Australia and I am hoping to find the local deaf community so I can join social outings and get to know people more.

I am hearing and grew up signing with a deaf friend.

You make me smile! This was a hard discussion to have and you did it with such grace. Good on ya!

I'm glad someone is pointing out the problems with the deaf community instead of just following the general ideology unquestioningly. It took a lot of bravery for you to do this and I hope that you go back to the community instead of shunning it. This is the first video I saw of yours and I immediately subscribed because you shared some things that have been on my mind for some time. I'm a hearing person trying to learn ASL. I'm taking classes and trying my best to get to know other people despite not being a very social person. The community so far has been nice because the majority of people I've met have been teachers and other people I would consider safe to speak to, the community's best foot forward so to speak. It's worth noting that even these people have very strong rooted beliefs that are very isolating to hearing people and sometimes even to each other. After going through a couple of deaf culture classes I can understand and sympathize with them, but they do and say things that very few other cultures would even have the audacity to think let alone preach. For example, have you ever seen a Japanese person enraged that a foreigner is "appropriating" their culture? In those cases, the worst criticism a native Japanese person gives is calling the extreme "appropriators" weaboos. They don't get upset when people try to learn or invent new words in their language even if they're gaijin (foreigners). Conversely, many Deaf people (with a capital D) are concerned over hearing people teaching other people when they aren't certified interpreters or fluent, many get upset if the language is used for hearing people's entertainment, and many reject hearing people simply on the basis that they are hearing and "don't understand what it's like" to be deaf. I won't say there aren't legitimate concerns for some of these things, but what I do with my ASL on my own time is none of their business, and ANY native of ANY language should be happy that someone took the time to learn their language just to communicate with them. There is an unspoken sense of entitlement that some Deaf have and it rubs me the wrong way. In class, we are taught to not have an ego, don't think of interpreting as a heroic job, don't be proud if you're good at signing. But if you're capital D Deaf, you apparently have license to gatekeep and to lord your status over others all you want. Thanks for the video, it was refreshing to see.

Thanks so much for posting this! It's so important.

Thank you!! I’m going to college for interpreting next year, but I’ve been signing for 3 years. I had no particular reason to start learning ASL but I did anyways and I instantly fell in love. I’ve always been at the top of my ASL class, my teacher introduced me to a Deaf little boy that I now FaceTime regularly, etc. At the beginning, I often thought to myself that the people who grew up signing wouldn’t really be supportive of me learning and trying to have conversations with them. It in a lot of ways felt like a “oh the adults are talking, go play” type of situation. I feel like that kind of attitude from native signers really discourages new signers to the point where they might even feel like it’s worth it. I’m glad that I was able to believe in myself and look past it, otherwise I have no idea what I’d be going to college for!

I agree with you. I don't catch your vlog often because I forget, but often while viewing your vlog you make me chuckle.

I felt this way after seeing the recent controversy over the cued speech interpreter video in ASL That!. I felt like the person who shared it (highly influential) took the OP's positive experience and used it to degrade cued speech in general.

This is incredibly brave of you to share your truth.

Thank you for this video.

The funny thing is that's not how language works (any language). Every user of the language whether highly educated or otherwise contributes to its evolution. Languages evolves over time and what strata you habituate on the ladder isn't relevant. People repeatedly use idioms incorrectly eventually becomes the new idiom--it's actually the mistake that can be catalysis for change as much as any other catalyst. If the Deaf community is attempting to protect that from happening then it's futile--we make fun of the error for a while and then it's the norm--that's just how languague works--we have to be flexible because time stands still for no one, Deaf or hearing. It happens in English and other spoken language as much as any other. I was a hearing signer that became Hard of Hearing as an adult. During my ASL education, which was both formal and informal, I was formally taught the above lesson spoken of in the vlog in academic papers: that there is a strata among "Deaf of Deaf" or "Deaf of hearing." I was not taught that it was right but that it existed and that is at least partially natural. I guess we'll see what happens.

I love your videos. You look like you have a great attitude -- even when you're explaining your strong feelings about something. I agree with you about people who are unkind to those who do not sign like they do. The whole idea behind signing, talking, gesturing, doing mime, making silent movies, singing, painting, drawing, etc.... is to communicate your thoughts to other people and to also, when you're having a conversation with someone, be able to get to know each other or discuss things -- as you say -- civil-ly. If someone's only reason for moving their mouth or hands, is to say something unkind to someone, then I believe it is because they are unhappy people who are probably just looking for a hug. : ) Thanks for posting your videos., Rogan. I'm still learning ASL, and watching your videos helps me learn, because you sign slowly enough for me to follow the thoughts that you are conveying.

in popular FB ASL groups, I see a lot of possessive language. "our language". "our world". "you're a visitor". "stay in the background". As someone HOH, it's really conflicting because I'm not a part of the deaf/ASL community though I share the same experiences. I understand the community's desire for respect and trying to make sure people don't appropriate their language/culture. But as you said, the spectrum for any cultural community, and specifically a language community, is so broad. and it becomes so easy to isolate others who don't easily fit into the hierarchy (deaf family, grew up deaf, full deaf/no oral communication, etc. etc.). Really sticky and people who promote the hierarchy (instead of questioning it, as there are so many examples of how invalid it is) do piss me off as well.

I clicked on this video because the title interested me and I wasn't disappointed. But I wanted to comment today because I love the lighting and framing of this video. I know it is weird but I'm still thinking about it. It is super visually pleasing.

Like everyone here, I really enjoy that you talk about more complex issues, I enjoy your book reviews!

Would like 100 more times if I could. Great video! I have noticed this happening as well, definitely not a fan of it. It’s so hypocritical.

I agree with you that not okay because I am deaf …. And that’ll people offend to deaf people is will get hurt but important thing is IGNORE HEARING SPECIAL PEOPLE… don’t worry I will support to you that why you are always correct thing is right choice things ….. 😌

Is this issue connected to the tendency to view and act as if theres a kind of social hierarchy where the best thing to be is fully deaf with deaf family and growing up fluent in a sign language going to deaf school, HoH is a little less, hearing is the lowest and not fluent Will at best make a few people try to be nice to you but most Will gravitate away from you because you’re really boring to talk to because of lacking both in language skills and social standing/connections IM the Deaf community?

Dated a deaf guy once (im fluent he would say i was fluent and had many friends who were deaf WHO knew my fluent sign ) but for some reason every time we introduced ourselves he would say (don’t know sigh(AND pointed out at me) to the point other deaf people around would be like oh and every time i would try signing they would disregard me completely (got to the point that I broke up with him because he’d be like why are you upset ( me )STOP telling people I DONT sign…, he would then go (I didn’t say that ) Bro I JUST WATCHED YOU don’t gaslight me in asl

a bit of context: As a hearing person, I don't want to have any huge say in anything. I just want to learn and understand the deaf/hoh community because I go mute sometimes, and ASL is a great way of communicating. My ASL is honestly rubbish at this point, and I'm learning simple phrases and how to fingerspell quickly and without mistakes. I find this (for a lack of a better word) argument absolutely reasonable. I mean, some people are naturally "protective" of their community and identity, but you shouldn't be to the point where you discourage others of ever learning. This applies to so many other languages and more.

The same thing exists in Australia with AUSLAN (Australian sign language). I’m not deaf, but I have a neurological disorder that has resulted in my auditory processing being in the 1st to 4th percentile. Because I’m not deaf, I wasn’t taught AUSLAN at school and had no opportunities to do so. I attended some classes before COVID but they stopped with COVID and I tried to teach myself in online communities but there was so much gatekeeping that I just felt like rubbish whenever I went into those online community groups. I scrape by in the hearing world but it drains me. I have limitations that I drain myself compensating for. I don’t fit in either culture - hearing nor deaf - so what language am I “entitled” to use?

I'm not deaf...but I'm a linguistic semi-genius that catches languages pretty quickly especially when it comes to reading then speakingcuz I'm a visual person (not deaf...but with a very bad ear for understanding foreign spoken language) so for me a language based on visual rather than hearing is just fascinating and I want to use that special talent to help the deaf in my community. I just hope I will not meet that kind of a**holes to often cuz yeah gatekeeping is a plague that divide already small community and push away potential allies; I'm trans in a wheelchair I could write a book about shitty gatekeeping.

I’m hearing but I’ve decided to learn ASL as it will be useful in my future career. I want to be a child life specialist which is basically someone that helps children and families understand their diagnosis and normalizes the hospital setting. I will most likely have a client who is either deaf themselves or have a deaf family member and I want them to have a chance at the same experience as any hearing client. But of course, I’m not going to be perfect at sign language and it’s been kind of discouraging seeing people say how offensive SimCom is (Which I don’t really understand. They want us to choose between ASL and English and always choose ASL) and some people compared it to cultural appropriation. I wanted to try to make ASL kind of second nature for myself by talking & signing simultaneously. Is that really offensive to do?

How do you feel as a member of your community about hearing individuals teaching ASL?

Hi. I don’t understand what you meant by the hearing families not wanting their child to be a part of Deaf community because of the attitudes of certain people. Can you please explain? I can see where you’re coming from with the Deaf community gatekeeping, but do you think its different with the Deaf community and hearing people signing? Like I feel that hearing people sometimes think Deaf people should be grateful that they’re trying to communicate with us. I’ve had that said to me way too many times, it really annoys me, like in Deaf clubs I feel sometimes that hearing people think we’re going to want to help them practice, but I think “if you want to practice, just have a normal conversation with me”.

Is that... posh(?) attitude what I've been picking up in their "ASL vs PSE vs SEE" videos? As a hearing person, my initial reaction was, "Oh, they probably just don't want people to make SEE or PSE mistakes because they don't really count PSE/SEE as 'languages' in the same way they do with ASL." Then I remembered you said there's a noticeable margin in the deaf community that is not fluent in ASL, and marginalizing earnest people who want to enter a community they kinda have a right to is crossing a line. I remember almost wanting to give up on learning ASL in early Nov. because of elitist attitudes I'd seen on grammar in ASL. "S-V-O is not real ASL." Luckily, other online sources like Bill Vicars were able to set that record straight by saying, "Yeah, it is. Why wouldn't it be?" 4 months of nothing but online researching later, and 300+ words learned. I wish I had more time- or even the option of taking a class dedicated towards ASL- but hopefully what I currently make do with will serve me well, should I ever interact with a deaf person or the community.

Awesome video. :) Agree with most of what you said. Maybe disagree a little? Not so much disagree, but maybe just understand both sides. But, really, awesome vid. Thanks. :)

I want to say thank you. I know I am 3 years too late in seeing this video and I wish I had found this sooner. I suppose all thing happen in good time, who knows? I am deaf, my whole life [since I was 3 (may as well have been my whole life cause I don't know nor remember what hearing is like from 0-3) ] adopted by hearing family 0 connection or knowledge of Deaf Culture or people until I realized... clearly I am different from the rest, but why? Why was I the only one? Anyway, I don't want to drone on and on about my history. My point is, when I first learned that Deaf community frowns upon those who use Hearing aids or Cochlear Implants or don't sign well enough made me scared to even try. I always just viewed those devices as a tool and nothing more. I prefer being deaf to being hearing any day. But I became very insecure and thought why bother learn sign if I wont even be accepted because I wasn't raised or taught ASL from the start. What's more messed up is that I only learned what "audism" is yesterday. Everything I hated hearing people said to me makes them an audist. I had no idea. None whatsoever. And now... I just feel even more alone, the hearing people even my family... I don't fit in. Deaf world I don't fit in either. Again, thank you for your video because for just a moment it made me feel less alone.

See and the Rochester method are two of the dumbest things foisted on the d/Deaf btw. There's a video of kids at a Deaf school using it that's oh, so obviously staged😅

I've actually noticed a lot of the arrogant attitudes comes from a peoples who are NOT from deaf families and didn't grow up signing. They just claim they are to fit in.

I understand where the elitist mentality comes from being excluded from the hearing world for generations but I frequently get frustrated with that side of the culture, by you see it often in the other sides of disabled culture as well every culture has biases and the only way to move past it is to be more open and inclusive live your videos