A lot of the backpacking I do is for Rocky Mountain elk hunting trips with my boyfriend. We're talking, no shelters, no campsites, and weather that varies wildly. We will be at a "spike camp, " for 6 or so days. I have really found that a heavier backpack is 100% worth it. The hiking is grueling EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. and none of my UL sleeping pads were cutting it. Not worrying about weight and getting a good Big Agnus pad and sleeping bag liner has made it so my sleep is more restorative. A benefit to that is that the extra weight isn't so tough to handle because my body can recover. Totally agree with your advice here.
Thanks for the video. The perfect setup for each person is different. One thing I like about my sleeping bag liner as well as the additional warmth is if I'm a little "dusty" it keeps my sleeping bag or quilt clean and the liner can go into the washing machine when I get home. Sometimes on warmer camps I use my liner as my sleeping bag.
After peeling away every gram I could, I started adding things back to make my life comfortable. I’m not sure I would carry a 2lb sleeping pad, but I appreciate what you are saying. It comes down to bringing what will make your personal experience what you want. The older I get the more weight is a concern, but I like good sleep and I like to boil water fast and carry minimal fuel.
I totally agree . I kept thinking for years that treking poles were a kinda thing that old people or mall walkers used or something that is only needed as your in the snow and ice . until I fell flat on my back in a creek with full backpack .me with my legs and arms in the air like a turtle trying to get back on its feet . then I bought treking poles and started to use them I quickly realized that hills were easier up and down . This slippery rocks were easier to handle my ankles loved that plus . spider webs can be moved so you don't get a face of webs blazing a new trail. The most understated product I've ever used . knees are happier ankles less stressed and many less spider webs to deal with .
I just did multiple thousands of meters of descent in 2 days. Poles are complete knee-savers in that setting. Wouldn't travel without them after that experience.
I thought the same thing, hiking poles were for wimps! I tried them on a short be steep, rocky climb and they were great. The knees and ankles were quite happy with that decision!
I just went on my first backpacking trip with my family. It rained and hailed and I was so happy that I had everyone bring sleeping bag liners and extra layers along with super comfortable sleeping pads and bags. We were soaking wet and needed to get warm fast. We also brought the jetboil. I always find that good food and warm drinks can usually turn things around. If my family isn’t having fun, then what’s the point? We also brought a tarp to hang out under. Definitely not an ultralight trip but a trip we will always remember! 😀
Thanks for the video. When I watch videos of guys such as yourself I always say, I cant afford those gears to be ultralight and I won't be comfortable with that. everyone is like "gear list only 12lbs" this and that. I ask myself "where is the fun in that?". I pack my gears, weight it, then train with heavier load and works for me that way.
Being ex-Infantry, pretty much ANY civilian load is going to be lighter than what we had to carry. So keeping that in mind, my mindset is that, if im working and hiking hard all day, i want that payoff at the end to be an amazing nights sleep. It gives me something to look forward to and really, doesnt add much to my pack weight. If i want to save a few extra pounds, then i can work it off my waistline before my trip.
Totally. I left the tarp for a single-wall shelter. Also switched to a closed-cell mat, and augmenting my first-aid kit. It's a nerver ending adjustment, but it's worth it. Also got a slightly bigger pack made out of ultra200.
I also bought my first tent just two weeks ago. I'm 45 yo so that's A LOT of tarping through the years lol. I also bought a sleeping bag that's ~8oz heaver than I considered my "top limit" (that's still 1.5lbs lighter than my old bag). Suffice to say my gear was almost as old as I am.
My son and I are about to set out on the Appalachian Trail. Our base weights are about 25 lbs with some food. We both love our heavier Osprey and Gregory packs for the comfort, we have heavier sleeping pads because we went for wider more comfortable pads (Big Agnes Q-Core Deluxe), a lightweight pan to go with our jet boil, and he’s bringing his chair zero. We are comfortable with the weight we’re carrying and happy with the trade off of weight for comfort. :)
I always carry my JetBoil in the winter. It performs so well in cold and snow. I also carry a liner most trips. Aside from the extra warmth it provides, it also keeps my bag cleaner. It's easier to throw the liner into the wash than it is to get my bag cleaned. I agree with the main point of your video.You have to find the balance that works best for you. Too much focus on weight and your camping experience suffers, too much focus on comfort and your hiking experience suffers.
Great points. I am a mixed bag hiker/camper personally. I use UL where I can (titanium cookware/stove, dyneema sacks, etc.) but I also won’t compromise on durability in other areas (a full tang carbon steel blade, saw & axe/survival gear). So I’m like an UL meets bushcrafter, I guess?
@@LaconianConcepts Hear hear! It boggles my mind seeing people go on thru hikes with no knives, or just a pocket folding knife. I urge anyone who thinks its enough to watch 127 Hours or any other true survival movie. There’s certain things you shouldn’t skimp on.
@@MrTangent I simply won’t go into the wilderness without a knife. Fire = life. It is simply the most important tool if you NEED it. You can improvise a method for almost all other survival means if you have one.
I love the Sea to Summit Reactor liners - they feel better than the sleeping bag material too. The way I look at it is this - we teach layering for clothes, so that we can add or remove layers to suit the changing weather conditions. So why wouldnt we want to do the same for our sleep system? In the summer if its warm I often use JUST the liner as I like something over me and it just takes the edge off the morning chills by not having any skin exposed to the air, but I dont need the warmth of even my lightest sleeping bag. But if its a really clear night and the cold moves in then I have a sleeping bag with me. If its colder still then I can put the two together. On a multi-day hike that versatility is really useful.
Being in the Army, I never worry about weight. I just carry everything I might need (44 lbs) and I still carry it all walking 10 miles +. I camp in the winter
Good advice Devin. I've always said, the last place to worry about saving weight is in your sleep system. If you're not sleeping well, you're not hiking well. I also agree that it's better to be lightweight as possible without sacrificing small comforts in camp.
However, some, like me, backpack in order to hike comfortably, not camp comfortably. In order to hike comfortably you have to have good sleep, so I'm with you there.
@@drytool That was actually part of my point. Whether you seek to hike comfortably, or hike to camp comfortably, without a decent night's sleep, you really aren't doing either.
While on the Appalachian Trail, I carried a JetBoil and everyone said I was crazy, “it’s too heavy, too bulky!” Because of the JetBoil’s features, I was boiling water (in about a minute and a half), when they were struggling with blocking wind (Pocket Rockets or similar), I was drinking coffee, or eating when their water was just coming to a boil. Love my MiniMo JetBoil! Thanks for the video!
🤣🤣🤣🤣 hahaha!! It played off in dividends Haha!! I bet it shut them up real quick after! Lool! You keep doing your thing and the proof is in the pudding!!
I've had 4 jetboils they only ever worked a handful of timea during summer season. In moist climate during the winter they failed me everytime. Never trust the ignitor on them either
Im a fan of the big agnes core pads and another thing i like about the sleeping bag liner is it helps keep your sleeping bag cleaner by providing a barrier from you
If you are in the mood to spend some good money but get the most comfortable and warm nights rest, the neoair xtherm large is really a hell of an amazing sleeping pad. Not doubting your happiness with what you have but if you need something just a little more the xtherm is the one and it’s really light to boot.
Good points. Best advice is to use the best tool for the job, and not the newest hot idea. The best tool for a solo person will not be the best tool for a family of five or a group of ten. The best stove for boiling may be a 50 year old Seva123 or an Optimus 00. One of the Sea and Summit bag liners is a good tool to have in your sleep system. the keep your sleeping bag clean and add more warmth than you would expect. A little hint. Before you take one out on your next adventure. make sure you practice using it at home or an over night in the back yard. Practice getting in and out of it in the middle of the night there is a top and a bottom . Make concessions for you age and the groups age. What equipment you take at age 20 is not what will make you comfortable at 80.
Thanks for the honest product review. Is it possible to get a link to the pot stand? Hoping it can be purchased as a stand alone item and used on a variety of backpacking stoves.
You know this is a great video,. I have tried many light weight options for cooking but after watching Tuba Solo’s video on the Jetboil I went back to using my Jetboil Minimo. It just works
Right on! I just love that there are options to do pretty much whatever you want, and there's gear that fits within all kinds of priorities. It took me a long time to get a Jetboil, and don't regret it.
I put my sleeping pad and quilt inside my sheet. I toss and turn, so it helps keep me on my pad and keep my quilt on. It's also light enough that I can pull it over my head if it gets a tad chilly
This gear seems ideal for car camping, shorter/less mileage hiking days with more time in camp. A pan and a giant heavy air mattress equal more pain on longer hiking routes.
Some good points there. Every time I hear one of those mega ultralighters talk about how they sleep great on nothing but a tiny thin foam pad and YOU don't need anything else I completely disregard them for future videos and wonder what they're smoking
Thank you for this video! I love it! You are.... steering me around... to the idea of not taking just the very ultra lightest! *I mean, secretly I do value my comfort a whole lot more than just the trend of weight and being all swanky! Maybe it is coz I'm a woman, I don't mind roughing it a bit, honestly, but it does bring me so much pleasure of having those extra little items of comfort!!! That make the experience sooo much more, well, pleasurable and exciting!! For e.g. I have a slightly bulkier (only a tiny bit) inflatable pillow from Amazon which is not the trendy trekology pillow, and there's absolutely no way I'm changing it!! I'm in love with it it is just so so comfortable, light, super plush, coz it's got a fantastic soft plush cover and a fantastic valve system!! I don't want to change it! I also love my decathlon bag - which IS heavy also - and it's 2.0 kg!! Again I do not want to change it as it has absolutely everything I could possibly wish for, and the most genius design for my side bottle pocket!! Something I've not seen on any other back! So for the extra weight, I compromise to get exactly what I want! Comfort, steady, reliability, a bit of luxury, and quality!!
It amazes me how we feel the need to “secretly” enjoy something when thru hiking. I “secretly” carried deodorant! (I’ve never embraced hiker stink.). Hike on!
@@8Throtl1 haha!! Thank you!! I did that too! I could reluctantly, overcome the lack of showers in my multiday hikes and the dirt everywhere, inside tent and what not, but I couldn't pass on a deodorant!! Thank you for spurring me on!
In the summer heat when no sleeping bag is needed, I have a Sea To Summit Cool Max bag liner. I put my Nemo pad inside of it so I’m not sweaty on top of a plastic pad. It’s very comfortable and I wonder if it helps cut down on the pad insulation and reflective properties overheating me. I need to add a non insulated pad to my gear. It feels better than plastic at least
I love my camp chair...sitting in my chair sipping tea in the AM..and not in the dirt or a wet log...man nothing better... Trekking poles are my next don't leave home without...my black diamonds saved me from tipping over a very large drop...
Great points and great video! A good example for me personally is the Thermarest Compressible Pillow. It doesn't weight that much, but it is bulky, however it's completely worth it to me because my sleep is SO much better with it!
I like the sleeping bag liner for the warmth BUT my main purpose is to keep my sleeping bag cleaner. It seems to make a real difference on that. THEN also I use it in motels (at times) and in all hostels. Thanks for the video!
The temptation to be a weight-weenie is strong. We are bombarded with marketing to make us think weight is the only factor, but I agree that comfort is also important. What is the point of getting out into the backcountry if you are miserable when you get there.
Yeah comfort is def a priority as we age 😌 haha I feel this way about ultralight gear alos if it's not as durable or dependable rather take a little more weight and have it Indestructible, i also think the StS liner is excellent for keeping your sleep system clean you can just wash the liner great piece of kit!!😁✌💚
I so agree with you about durability and sturdiness of my items! Well I am trying to trim down my backpack weight as it us too heavy atm, but.... I still want something that is as light as possible, while also being the most durable and sturdy as possible! And for me, with my tent, I choose the MSR elixir 2!! Not the lightest, but I know it will last me for a super long time which still being comfortable! Win win 😁
Have you tried cotton camping pads? Weigh roughly the same (about 2 lbs) and a bit bulkier but has advantages over an inflatable mat and is warm and soft.
Someone needs to manufacture a fleece mummy liner in a wider size like 34 inches for winter camping with a zipper, color O.D. ill be first in line to buy a few.
try getting ultra fit first. a 30 lbs pack is light. Even a 40 lbs pack is still reasonable. I've gone up long steep climbs carrying 50 lbs with no problem.
Last year when I did Kings Peak with some friends, I took my Sea to Summit Comfort Deluxe sleeping pad. It's 4" thick and weighs 4.5 lbs! But my sleep was AMAZING! Hiking to a base camp style of trip was totally worth a heavier load, only 3 more lbs than my normal sleeping pad though.
A pillow was the game changer for me sleep system wise well that and quilts. As for colder temps my splash/wind bivy from boarh gear is were it's at. Waking up to the water bottle inside my bivy not frozen at all, and my second right next to it just outside touching the outside of the bivy frozen solid was all the proof I needed. The liners look like a nightmare for someone like me. As for cooking I'd rather bring an axe and cook over a fire with rocks and sticks than bring a pan and noisy stove. It really is all about HYOH. No one way to do things. One of these days I will do a Ultralight backpacking axe video, that should be interesting 😁
I understand what you are saying I am not an ultralight packer But Just a little more weight here and there, ends up totalling kilos And I reverse the 'it weights just a little bit more' to lose carry weight
It's all about finding the good balance. If you need to carry that extra few hundred grams but you get a much better sleep or you can get more enjoyment of something else then it's totally worth it.
If you could take double or even triple the gear you could what would it be? I'm kayak camping and I can take pert near triple what a backpacker can take. I'd like to know what extra amenities you would take with you
I disagree with the JetBoil praise given here. It is bulky and heavy, and on a backpacking trip, or in my case bike packing, it does indeed take up a lot of space, and as a true backpacker knows space is limited and weight is everything. I know this because I used to take JetBoil! Never again!! I can do everything that I did with the JetBoil that I can do with my Soto Windmaster, I have a pot with a lid, and a cup that I can use to boil water in it and or put ramen into it whatever, I have not suffered one small bit with what I can cook using the Soto vs using the JetBoil. And I've talked to people on trail, as well as at campgrounds, and I didn't run into anyone using the JetBoil after they gained experience. There are actually quite a few backpackers who don't take any sort of cooking stuff, these guys were die-hard backpackers, and I want to be able to cook stuff. That's just my opinion, this video has his opinion. Sleeping pad-wise, everyone is different, some people are perfectly fine sleeping on those hard fold-up foam pads, or on ultralight air pads, but not me. I've had lower back fusion done so I need the support that a heavier pad provides. I also believe in sleeping bag liners, it can keep you a tad warmer, but not as warm as the packaging claims, but they will protect your bag longer from dirt and oil, and it's easier to wash the liner than the bag. It is also very useful on hot nights, you can lay on top of the sleeping bag and use the liner as a sleeping bag instead, which will keep you cooler on hot, or hot and muggy nights.
Good Lord, that's not a sleeping pad. That's a queen mattress and box spring. Ha. I'm happy to carry the additional 8-9 oz (net comparable weight) for the peace of mind, reliability, fuel savings, and boil time savings of my Jetboil Flash (or additional 2-3 oz. for a Stash). Knowing that the Jetboil is a burner, wind screen, integrated pot, separate cup, cover, pot holder, no tips stand, hot lips cover, and yes cozy for freezer bag meals...it's worth the luxury ounces.
I'll give you the sleeping pad argument. However, you're still wrong about the JetBoil. It is a boat anchor that doesn't in any backpacker's pack. Save it for the car Glamping.
Hey Devon, love your channel and I'm wondering if you ever plan to do some backpacking in British Columbia, also I wish you would do some more fly fishing 🎣 content. Keep up the great videos🤙
That Quasar looks pretty awesome. I need something better for my tent trips. I have the Jetboil Stash and it's mostly awesome but the measurement marks stink.
Totally agree that comfort is king! But it def is really hard to shake that weight factor. I learned the hard way with testing a bunch of crappy pads before getting a Nemo and experiencing the difference. Also agree with the S2S liner! I just used it recently in my Channel Islands trip video because I was testing out a cheap warmer bag that I was unsure of. Man was I glad I brought the liner!
When I was a dirt bagging rock climber a sleeping bag liner had multiple advantages. 1. Liner kept my shell from getting dirty, sweaty and smelly. 2. Liner was easier to wash and dried more quickly than a bag. 3. Liner protected the bottom of my shell (my calloused climber feet had worn through my shell and my initial fix was to buy a fleece liner). 4. Liner added a layer of warmth when necessary but more often it allowed me to keep my mummy sack shell half unzipped for a less constricted and better sleep. Silk or synthetic liners are better than fleece in nearly all categories besides price.
Let us remember that more weight will only increase your strength by sending more calcium to your bones tightening tendons and sending more proteins to your muscles so embrace an extra 7 pounds or less.
In line with the overall message of this video, I've just added a Thermarest Trekker Chair that adds 10oz to overall Thermarest XTherm air mattress & backpack weight. The COMFORT of having a backrest while inside my tent, something I can lean up against & relax while cooking, reading, or just sitting & relaxing during a daytime rain storm is something I should have been using from the get-go. And this chair reflects my body heat back to me because of the XTherm air mattress & it's R6.9 rating. Yes, I'm 5'3" & can sit upright while in the chair & not have my head touching the top of my Hilleberg Enan tent. Chairs with legs/frames are too heavy & too bulky for MEeee + they're NOT comfy warm. Please, what brand/model Down hooded jacket are you wearing? Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada.
I’m a big fan of the trekker chair. It’s in my backpack permanently. I wouldn’t go anywhere without it. Perfect in a tent sat up or sun lounger style. If I sit outside on it. I use a foam mat underneath to protect it. Awesome bit of gear. 🤙
Not sure I wanted the +25 S2S Reactor Extreme, but with the supply chain issues, it was the only one that came in Long sizes. I've yet to try it out w/ my 20F quilt, but hopefully that works out when I do. Or I just bite the bullet and get a 0F bag.
Have 3 compact liners. I love sea to summit own 6 of their sleeping bags but the liners add no more than 5 degrees at the absolute most . If you want a liner for extra warm just get a 1 lb quilt like the big Agnes fussel. Adds 15 to 20 degrees of warmth only weighs a little more, only slightly bigger, gives you a lighter weight summer alternative works down to 45 degrees with a warm pad. Does cost more but buy once cry once.
Cool Video, yesterday i ordered the etherlite Online was this not a good idea? Is the Quasar better than the Etherlite? I often sleep on the side and sometimes on my stomach. Greets from Salzburg (Austria)
Does the weight of watching this heavy video count was worn weight or consumable? As long as it doesnt count against my base weight... I very often take a heavier cook kit because I'm usually cooking instead of just boiling water for dehydrated meals. Evernew makes a really nice line of non-stick titanium pots that cook well but are also still lightweight. I pair a 900ml pot (its wide vs the tall cup style ones) with a Kovea Spider and a windscreen so I can do very low cooking as well as quick boils in most weather. The 900ml size works well for me for cooking up sausage and peppers as well as making noodles or soups. And I can still boil water if I am making a dehydrated meal.
Hey Devon, I’ve noticed that you done have the DCF version of the Double Rainbow anymore? Not a fan of the DCF or did you want to try something different?
I still have my Double Rainbow Li. Love that shelter! I also bought the silnylon Rainbow 1P. I’ll be sharing a video soon on the standard rainbow. I’m always testing additional gear so things change all the time for me.
Sacrificing comfort out there because you are an ounce counter really isn’t worth it in my mind. There are a host of products that are really lightweight but don’t skimp on the comfort or warm factor. Sleep is one of those things I won’t skimp on because it’s so important to get while you are out there.
Which Zenbivy do you have? The 10-degree or 25-degree? I love that you're saying it's okay to be wrong and flexible with our gear. I'm so on board with that! I'm very small and trying to lower my base weight, but have only managed about a 15 pound base weight so far. And that's okay, ESPECIALLY if it means being comfortable!
I got my Jetboil Mini Mo through a rewards program at work and, as much as I love it, I would not have shelled out the $150 for it. I don't have a problem with it at all! It is a wonderful system that does a great job, but it's hard for me to justify the cost. Great video!
I've recently changed from an ultralight(ish?) bag (GG Crown 2) to a standard weight bag (Forclaz Trek 900) of the same volume. Even though the bag weighs more It rides much better with the 25lbs of stuff i'm bringing. So yeah, shaving weight is important, but also having the proper bag for the amount of weight that you will be carrying matters a lot.
