Gen 3 Mustang Coyote Intake cam idle stumble issues explained. 

Did I just get out of the Matrix, or is the thumbnail looking funky?

2020 and a new mustang won't even idle correctly, that's crazy!

Alex educating the masses once again 😎

Very interesting Alejandro, I was wondering why they did this. My favorite is right when you begin engaging the clutch at a light, stall and look like a hoser.

I want to thank everyone for the comments. And thank you for the video! Exactly what my 2015 convertible is doing.

Why don’t you work for Ford so you can perfect these issues?

I might be retarded, but my gen1 does this or something very similar, but only when the AC is on and radiator fans kick on about every 30 seconds at idle. Can't find anything on it online, and no codes. My car is on the stock tune currently but I'm eager to get my ngauge soon to data log and see what happens.

More sound bytes for the livestream "bone stock tune!" and the cam burble "bluh, bluh, bluh" are priceless.

There is a TSB for this, and its oooooolld. You need to “actuate” the phasers, go give it a few wots and it will go away.

Ford's getting in on that ghost cam tune

Anyone get a definitive answer as to what is causing this? Been going back and forth with my dealer for a few months because they refuse to look at the issue :/

Thanks for the advise . I was looking at my VCT intake 1 & 2 solenoids on the NGuage and when my car wanted to stall out I saw that the number dropped to -20.00 but the intake side is working perfectly fine . Thanks again

My 19 gt has this problem I only have 8500 miles I just did a oil change the problem went away for a while about 1500 miles into the new oil change the idle problem came back I thought it was a throttle body issue happy I watched this

This is happening to my 14 GT. It slightly 👌🏾 drops idle when I come to dead stops. I replaced all my ignition coils, spark plugs & o2 sensors. I’m pretty sure I don’t have any leaks. I even got a new intake manifold, hoping I fixed the issue!

my '16 F150 5.0 is doing the same thing. Took awhile but i finally got P0012. Replaced the entire timing system. Still doing it. Now it even started doing it the day after an oil change 🤬. Full synthetic 5w-30

I have a 2019 manual transmission my car also displays this issue... What is the fix do I replace the VVT solenoid?

It could be just the plane oil viscosity, they do recommend 5w20 and Iv always put 5w50 and had the same issues. I switched to 5w20 and went away but who knows.

i got a 2018 5.0 gt and code P0022 and i have had bad idle for 6 months now, code just now coming up. pretty sure its phasers.

Great info! My ‘16 GT is throwing P0308 Cylinder 8 misfire, P345 Cam shaft position sensor A circuit P349 Cam shaft position sensor A intermittent. Could this be the problem? Has LTH no cats, Roush Charged, and VMP tuned. Help 😵

My 19 f150 does this I watch my vct error on my ngauge. Dealership replaced all 4 phasers and solenoids. Still does it. My guess is possibly oil pressure maybe? We’re looking at a new engine now. 50,000km on it......fack

Heavy Line Tech here. The 18's still use the older solenoids (Gen1/2) on the intake cams. This style solenoid does not have oil running through them to keep them clean. The problem arises from extended oil changes +5k miles or going by the oil life monitor. They mount to the timing cover on a high varnish area with no oil flow, thus they get sticky. No DTC's because they are good internally. You could litterally take them out, clean them with solvent and will function normally.

Is this a similar issue with warm starts sounding horrible? My cold starts are fine. Warm starts on hot days it sounds short and rough.

is a cam lope idle/ ghost cam tune bad for your car?

My 16 f150 coyote has done the same thing , only a cat back and air intake , changed oil with 5w30 mobil one and ran a oil flush through engine and hasnt happened again , heard of low oil , or a restricted cam solenoid causing the problem .

5w-50 from day one in my 19. Haven't experienced the idle dip as you explained. Amsoil full synthetic oil changed at 4k miles. You gonna make Ford put out a TSB bruh lol. Watch, I bet it's gonna happen now I've seen this video.

Mine started doing this out of the blue recently. Went about 16,000 miles never having done it till I came to a redlight a few days back and it died. Car went through 10,000 miles with a Paxton on it and as soon as I went back to motor this car has shown it’s ass 😂 Now everytime it’s been running a while and I come to a stop the STFT’s freak out and it either dies or stumbles. Guess I’ll try VCT solenoids assuming those aren’t also on National backorder like half of Ford’s replacement parts

My 2020 A10 GT has an odd idle quirk. Cold start it idles fine but will “skip” a beat just for a split second. It seems like something it turning on or changing. That’s with and without AC on.

Ford has a SSM out for gen 3 F150(not sure on mustangs) for this concern with p0011, p0012, p0021, and p0022. You replace the solenoids only and reprogram the PCM. I’ve done a bunch. I’m assuming mustangs use the same solenoids in gen 3. I usually see it in trucks that aren’t maintained properly(7500 mile oil changes) but not saying that’s the cause.

The coyote master 🔥🔥🔥🔥👍🏿🐎

my gt350 drops out of phasing during WOT (VCT schedule mode goes disabled leaving from optimal power mode)

Dayum bicho!!! You wearing them Levi's! I'm diggin it😂

This was happening to my 2018, always stumbles when at idle. Took it into Ford and they told me they’re going to replace the solenoid and cam phasers also. Still waiting on results after they replace it. Thanks for this video, this definitely gave me an insight of what was happening with my mustang.

I've never had a Idle issue in my 2018. I've ran Amsoil 5w30 since the day I got it. When warmed up it holds 620 RPM steady always after 16k miles.

I need to start cataloging my own sh~*~*~

Very informative video, Alex. Que dios te bendiga.

Isn’t it bizarre that this just started happening to me today after watching this video yesterday lol

My boosted 14 does this, will just up and die for No reason- vmp tuned, might not be the tune?

at 19,800 miles. My 5.0 GT is doing same thing as of 2 days ago. I originally thought it was bad fuel? I run strictly 93 octane. Shell V Power if I can afford it.. right.. wrong.. Then I was thinking a bad sensor maybe. Your looking spot on man. Thanks

This happens on my 19 F-150 5.0 as well usually right before an oil change.

At least for the F-150s, Ford put out a TSB for an updated calibration that fixes the idle cam phaser issue. It fixed my problem but Lund's F-150 tune isn't based off that file sadly. From what I heard, late 2019's and 2020's have an updated phaser design. I've had the problem for years now across multiple different Lund tunes and I can attest that it's not the calibration. (I have a early 2018 5.0 F-150)

I've seen this when burning oil, oil interval time, 3kish.. phaser issues I've seen bad on high mileage older ford engines like 5.4L triton, 4.6L junk but maybe the same for our coyote as you've shown that intake cam drops a decent amt... great video informative as always,.. younger guys should pay attention to this man he tells it.. LFTW

I beat the dogshit out of the PP2 and haven’t had this issue, yet..... lol

I don't know if the problem is related but I have a 18 f150 5.0 and I had to have the pcm reprogram for the cam phaser timing issue TSB and the check engine light would come on after 80% of oil life was used so I would clear the code change the oil and it would be fine for another 2-3 months.

"20, 0, 20, 0, FUCK YOU, NEGATIVE 7 BANK 1" 😭😭😭😭😭👏👏👏😂 how do you not love learning tuning like this

I have a 2015 and it does kinda the samething(not as rough) Ive got all the F@$k boi bolt ons so not a super aggressive set up. It has done it ever since ive had the car even before a tune.

So what’s the fix to stop this I’m tired of stallling out

Cam phasers replaced didn’t fix the issue neither did the roush tune update and cycling the vct the weird thing was that my engine coolant was low so i decided to max it out and all of a sudden it fixed things its been two months since i maxed out my engine coolant maybe it didn’t work from the start cause the dealership i service at didn’t fill up the engine coolant to max lines?

Is it bad tho ? Happens on my stock 10r80 right when due for an oil change . I’m asking cause I’m about to go e85 but I wanna make sure the car is okay before going the next level . Car does not seem slow it performs normal in my case

I’ve been having this on my used mustang 2018 mt82. I bought it with 20k miles. I couldn’t for the life of me get a direct answer from ford. Throttle body going out. Maf sensor. Tensiner. Intake solenoid. Lmrc’s. I’m currently at 28k. Thank you for this video Alex this is awesome!

Alex can this cause a misfire code? Due to it stalling?

The raptor ecoboost is prone to phaser issues as well. People are chasing the dragon with their trucks but I think more frequent oil changes with a quality oil may be helpful from what I've been reading.

My 18 10 speed would do the same but after I got a Ford performance tune so far it went away 🤷🏻‍♂️

Should ask your customer when Ford changed the solenoid & phasor, If they also change the oil at the same time. 🧐👍

Isn’t it easier to just blame the tuner? Haha

Mine does the exact same 2019 pp1 lund tune but it did it on steeda tune, and stock i just figured its just part of it

That thumbnail though 🌚

So far I haven't looked into how VCT works exactly. but I wonder if this condition is detected by the engine software and already being reset as a bugfix since it happends only for a short time and goes back to normal.

I been getting occasional rough idling at stop lights lately, doesn’t happen too often but its starting to concern me…I got a bone ass stock 2019 5.0 just a resonator delete with Roush X-pipe

my 2018 a10 car did it stock and once it was tuned it happened and we raised the rpm up a little so now when it does it it wont stall or dip way down like it did before.

I have a stock 2020 and haven't had this happen yet, maybe they fixed in 2020?

Is there a definite answer to this problem? I've seen lots of speculation, but not a definitive answer. Yes, cam phasers? Turned out it was something else? Please.

Alex is it a preference thing to bother correcting? The hassel doesnt seam worth the reward but to each is their own. Thanks for everything you do.

I have a 2019 and 2020 mustang gt and luckily haven’t experienced the idling problem on either one of them. Hope I don’t.

I had an 19 MT-82 and it never did that (it had 12k miles and I did 2 oil changes). I have a 20 A10 and about 6k miles, I just did my first oil change and I will try to pay attention to notice a dip in the idle RPM

My first thoughts are windage aerating the oil at idle. I suspect its a battle of enough capacity for high RPM operation and minimizing windage at low RPM(idle) with these new motors, possibly due to the new composite pan design. As the oil ages it breaks down and aeration rate increases until finally the intake cam phaser starts to receive the bubbles, and when ones big enough the phaser gets pulled off target long enough for the idle to be affected. Your log shows 7-10* swings even in relatively stable RPM portions of the log, they just don't get stuck as they are brief. I say its time Ford puts a dry sump oiling system on the mustang. The exhaust cams are not affected as at 0* they are up against their stop and not fighting the engines rotation. Command them to 10* and they too would probably start to struggle maintaining that position.

Why’s timing backing off? Could it be a knock type issue?

Hello someone help. Alright so my 22' GT is tuned on E85, catless fully straight piped. I have this cam lope idle sound now, after multiple high revs to red line. Before this, between 1-2k RPM if I were to hold the RPMs and play with it in between those RPM's it'd result in a backfire. Shifting from 1st to 2nd gear shifting below 3k rpm, would also give me some backfires and pops under normal driving. However like I said earlier, looks like I messed it up even more after revving the engine high, and now my car sounds like its cammed. VCT Solenoids and Cam Phasers is this the solution? Do I now have more serious problem now?

I’m on 4K miles on the pennzoil ultra platinum and no idle issues

Bought a used 2018 gt premium with only 5k miles was good for a bit but for the last month or so I’ve been having these rough idle issues and it dying on me at stops. Has anyone pin pointed the fix for this? Dealer told me my camshaft timing for bank 1 was over retarded

My friend have this same issue on his 18 after his first motor went out. Ford replace it and started doing it, we went back and Ford with the dealer trying to figure out the problem and no luck. It does it with the tune and without the tune

I'm never taking advice from you again. Mt82's are not meant to be shifted so aggressively. You cost me my 5th gear

Mine stalls out too every now and then. Hasn't done it in a long time

VCT phasers I had this and got my solenoids replaced twice, but now I have other issues

I have a 2019 mustang gt 10spd, and mine does whether or not it needs an oil change, and my does it a lot more frequent than you'res, and its stock except for cat-back

I have noticed a slight drop on my 14 v6 while idling. Ac not on and it just drops down a little for a few seconds then back to normal idle. but it isn't a stumble just drops down. My 12 Acura 3,5 V6 juts stays at steady idle and never drops

Yeah , good to see ford is continuing its legacy of the 5.4 and low oil pressure messing up the phaser.

Do the Gen 3 cams go out of phase at anything other than idle? At higher rpm or under boost, that could be catastrophic.

Hey Yeah I noticed this as well. It happens to my GT350

you have said this about the gen 3 motors a few times. thanks for a video. don’t have a mustang but i don’t love them

Just a thought, the gen 3 coyotes have both port and direct injection, maybe its temporarily switching to port.

Am just gonna take break 😂😂😂😂

My car started doing this at 55k miles. My warranty is up. But it does not throw a code is that normal ? When I looked at it with my solus the cam A gave numbers like 54.2 but cam b was0.2

I have a 2018 mustang gt and mines does this and stalls bad so could it be my phaser

Needed this explanation, on point as usual

Happens on my 2016

what wheels are those they look sick

Please take the time to go to your last video and read my comment and let me know your opinion? I would really like your opinion.

My buddy's 2019 did the same thing ford chould not find the issue.....even tho he had a check engine light on saying it was a intake phaser bank 2 I told em just get new phasers and popped them in problem solved

My 19 has never done that.

I had the same surge issues last year, I watched the intake cam freak on the ngauge. I still have logs of it happening, replaced all the vct equipment and it was perfect.

Any confirmation of a fix?

“Here we see bank 2 intake cam eat ALL the d**k. They lose phasing and go negative.” …Best example of “engineering explained” I have seen in many years! 😂👌❤️ Your videos are priceless, car brother.

On cold starts my 19 gt within the first few seconds on, has a idle dip for a split second, oil pressure doesn’t drop tho. Sometimes on warm starts it turns on like im about to run out of gas smh 🤦‍♂️. Stock no tune.

Happened with my gen1 coyote car too. Bitch would stall out often. Especially when the car was cold.

I have a 19 that’s had a rough idle since brand new. @round 4,000 miles I was waiting in line for coffee and it almost stalled I lightly gave it some gas and it came back and hasn’t done it that bad since. I just drained the appropriate amount of oil and put 2 bottles of ceratec in @ 13,000 miles and omg is it smooth. For anyone that wants to smooth it out try it. As for the warranty ford would have to prove that an additive caused the issue and there’s proof with this video and people saying the additive works so that’s my back up if a problem arises thanks for the video 🤙🏼

And this folks is when the ghost came tune was invented 😅

Wonder if old oil and oil pressure are causing it to go into high cam for an instance, then loses oil pressure again, then goes back into low cam. It suddenly idling like it haves big cams most likely seems like the high cam idle if it was locked in high cam kind of like the ghost cam tune. Had a Nissan with vct and that thing gets stuck on high cam and we'll have to end up running the motor with harsh chemicals additives to get it back to running normal again.

Thank again for the good intel Alex.

Alejandro: Very interesting video. Thank you for your in-depth highly intelligent research. My new 2019 Mustang GT PP1 with 20,000 miles began the intermittent stumbling idle issue. Very annoying at traffic lights. Took it to the dealer as it was still under warranty. Tech kept it for a couple days until he too experienced the stumbling idle. Tech replaced throttle body. Worked great for about 300 miles then started again. Therefore I did a few things myself as follows and I have not experienced the idle issue again for a year now: 1. I installed a catch can and it does a great job of catching and condensing the vapors into fluid and into the catch can. 2. I switched from factory Motorcraft 5W-20 oil to Motorcraft 5W-30 oil. 3. I stopped using Marvel Mystery Oil in my gas and crankcase. (I use it in my two Mazda 3's however and they run smooooooth and fast, like sewing machines lol) 4. I switched from Chevron premium to Shell premium fuel. Not sure which remedy affected the good outcome, or if two, or if all did. I have a feeling the heavier viscosity oil did the trick as you touched on that in the video. (The Mystery oil in the fuel and crankcase I also believe contributed to more crankcase vapors entering the throttle body via the crankcase vapor recirculation too. I am happy now.

Thank you alex for this info