Gentrification, Class Differences, And Working For The Ultra-Wealthy In NYC 

I am a born and raised San Franciscan and can relate to everything in this conversation! Especially the part about seeing the city as a community vs. a playground for your 20s and 30s, and public schools. I know most of my neighbors will move as soon as they want kids. True city diversity has so much to offer and I wouldn't give up my childhood in the city for anything! My family has been here for generations. I am not opposed to new people moving in. I am opposed to speculative real estate investing, and people who see the city as just a temporary stop that they'll leave when life gets more serious. I'm opposed to people not knowing their neighbors and not frequenting ethnic restaurants and corner stores because they want the whitewashed establishments instead. I'm opposed to people voting to defund civic programs like public schools and libraries because they can afford private school and Audible. I'm opposed to people looking down on service workers who grew up here, who make the capuccinos for the professional class who will leave soon. Community is everything

I gasped when he was talking about his experience with applying for afforable housing, wow

I would add another possible side effect to growing up around very wealthy people (in my experience): THINKING YOU ARE POORER OR WORSE OFF THAN YOU ARE! We are 4 kids in my family and all grew up around wealth, my 3 older siblings (in their 30s and 40s) to THIS DAY talk about themselves like they were poor despite having gone to top private schools, private language schools, private swimming lessons, horse riding (owning their own horse), paying $hundreds to trim half a cm of their hair every month, eating out in nice restaurants frequently, studying abroad and having memberships of several countryside leisure centres....

I love Dutch's content. I used to be a residential property manager at a partially low-income tax credit housing community and I quit and took a MASSIVE pay cut (50% of my income) to leave the industry. My company was very much giving the low income homes worse apartments, finding loopholes to renovate everything else first while they wait for the 30 year requirement to have the tax credit units to be up. For me, it is completely unethical to have for-profit housing unless housing is ACTUALLY accessible. Both price and procedure have to be accessible and there's not enough product.

"Money doesn't buy happiness" is something they only tell to poor people

Growing up as an immigrant in NYC was probably easier in many ways than if we lived in a suburb. There is always a community and I never felt isolated. I never wanted to leave the city. I'm lucky that my parents managed to buy a home here in the 90s, otherwise I would really struggle to raise my child here.

Money doesn't buy happiness, but it does help ensure a status quo that mitigates unhappiness and protects against events that would be catastrophic for someone of a lower socioeconomic class.

I am so happy for Dutch 🙂!

I got an offer to attend a private school for senior year with a scholarship because I play a less popular musical instrument and the school orchestra needed someone. Part of the reason I refused was because 1) I wanted to spend senior year with my friends at public school, & 2) I didn't want to deal with feeling like an outsider as a new kid and a scholarship kid (many of the students are showbiz nepo babies).

The REAL privilege is being loved - brought up in a functional family where you are given time, attention, care and love. The three year old in business class might not, in fact, have that.

Love this collab!!! Love Dutch!

old money have bimodal dress sense. Either they look like Audrey Hepburn or they're wearing dorky sweaters with mismatched jeans or sweatpants. There's no middle ground. As for houses being super out of date, can confirm. They're well upkept though, from what I see. They invest in all things quality and durability. I mean, if you had 200 year old furniture that was beautiful and impeccably maintained, why would you need to buy more? Old money folks also take pride in driving old pre-owned cars until they break. They also invest an insane amount in environmental conservation because part of being old money is having this mentality of preserving wealth for future generations - that mentality is easily extended to include the planet. Virtually every old money person I know has a "bag full of bags," recycles and repurposes everything, and uses things until they are no longer usable (but not falling apart, that's kind of an overstatement). It's a surprisingly sustainable lifestyle IMO.

Omg I was not expecting Dutch!

What a delightful guest! Off to find him on Instagram. 😊

Wonderful interview. Thank you!

Sara Dietchy comes to mind when Dutch was talking about New York Influences

i had the same kind of upbringing as him. one of the best things i learned from being around wealth was that the american myth of "rich = inherently smarter, more capable, morally good, etc," is SO false. like definitely false. (i adore him & his accent lol he sounds just like my family.) anyway, thank you for having such thoughtful (& often, hilarious) guests!

Not remotely on the same level as NY, but I’m raising a child in Capitol Hill, Seattle and people cannot wrap their minds around that choice!

An Interview for a 2 1/2 year old… and then they wonder why these kids end up in therapy thinking they need to do sth to have a worth 😅

I do not think people really understand this new world well about social media and payments. I am in tech and a consultant was talking about baby shark (this was years ago) and he thought because they had over a billion views they made a billion dollars. I explained to the group that they only get a fraction of a penny per view.

Based on the discussion sounds like rich potential not wealthy. I know a person that was worth over 10 million and would never have his kid fly business. If the kids knew they would think they are poor but far from it. He ensured he would live like the middle class

Interesting. I wonder if you and your presenters could speak more directly with less vernacular? For instance, overuse of terms like 'insane' constantly pepper the conversation and make the conclusions for you. Also you're using style of speech that's so indirect and unstructured that it strains the concentration, for instance, with so many unfinished sentences. It's skating on the surface of things but it doesn't go as deeply as it could. People say I'm very well-spoken but I'm just structuring my sentences properly and thinking ahead. It seems to be an internet-generated American way of speaking but it's wasting time and isn't such good communication. There's a lack of diversity in the language and this is what John Ralston Saul refers to in "Voltaire's Bastards" when he speaks of the reduction in our vocabulary, which in turn limits critical thinking. The analysis only goes so far. It's agreeable, it's reassuring, but it doesn't really bring as many insights or new ideas in as it could. There are examples of paradox buried in there, for instance the super wealthy who live in dilapidated surroundings. But this is in fact, consistent with old wealth. It means that such people are not obsessed with appearances and impressing others, they've gone beyond it. You don't go any further into what characterised those people. What were they interested in? People are not homogenous it's that diversity which can be fascinating, and also that wealth can confer the freedom to be eccentric. This is not explored. It just grinds on with the 'insane' description. Finding words that show more depth in your thinking, can work. Try using the word 'insular' in conclusions about the rich people who mix in the same circles and go to foreign destinations without actually interacting with ordinary people from those locations in a natural way. They're essentially transplanting a generic hotel compound to the other location making interactions with local people redundant, so describe it then categorise it. It reminds me of the film 'The Accidental Tourist' who writes travel guides designed to for reluctant business travellers, which detail how best to avoid unpleasantness and difficulty. It think this one word insular one aspect of extreme wealth: maintaining comfort in every respect, and avoiding anything that could be at all confronting or requiring effort or difficulty. But you haven't abstracted your thinking to do this, which is a missed opportunity. 'Insane' loses meaning if you apply it to everything. We already know you find it insane, but say something new. Find more accurate words to illustrate the point. It requires more thinking but I feel like you're being too lazy to do other than just tell us about your experiences and your interviewee and re-use the same words to describe it. Or saying 'childhood experience', and feeling like you have to explain that further,...shows a lack of confidence with the language. 'In your childhood' or 'childhood experience' is enough. You don't need to complicate the language by adding things like 'experiential' or 'history' which I felt you were leaning towards as a way of further emphasis. 'That's not a thing' or 'making bank' or 'really wild' are examples of vernacular which are imprecise. I wouldn't mind but this limits the depth of the discussion. So you've got a code of your own which is familiar and comforting to others who are in the same group. But it doesn't allow depth in the analysis. It's inherently limiting. 'It's a how-you-present, thing.' No, 'it's how you present'. That's it. No need to add 'thing'. But it's not just that is it? The presentation is essentially about being able to draw on connections. You cannot present effectively unless you have the right connections. That's it. I hate how you reduce it to 'it's a how-you-present, thing because I take issue with how you present. Over explaining, unnecessary inclusions, overuse of the vernacular. That's some of the ways which distinguish your communication style. I cannot think clearly when I'm listening to this because I'm constantly editing and trying to dig deeper. I'm not wealthy but I cannot watch this efficiently because you make me work so hard to try to understand what you're trying to say, and I'm also thinking about how this could have been so much better. I'm not elitist, I just want you to get to the point, and go deeper, whereas you're wanting to bond with everyone and make this accessible and do that with using these terms that import familiarity 'oh you know what I mean, you know what I'm talking about, right?' Oh yes, it's 'insane' and everybody nods. But how is this taking us anywhere new? Couldn't you have explored the vacant emotional landscape of so many in those lives? How people who are wealthy are able to distance themselves from consequences. This is what F Scott Fitzgerald means when the narrator describes the rich as 'careless', it's also a kind of prison. Overuse of certain terms is disempowering, it diminishes the word of its power. Insane no longer has meaning if you do that; just say it once then leave it alone. Try saying 'extreme wealth'. it's value-neutral and it lets us decide if it's insane or something else. It's the old form of journalism, to show don't tell and worthy of a decent rethink. First give us the facts of your experience, then ask them to tell us how they feel and reach some conclusions. Don't predigest your conclusions for everyone with constant use of 'insane', your message is far more powerful that way and you're giving us something to do. To look up those references and go deeper. JIMO.

The old money aesthetic thing is 1% propaganda to keep people aspiring to that and romanticizing instead of coming together to unionize, demand better from our governments etc.

The affordable housing lottery really does sound like Housing Hunger Games. Wow.

If money doesn’t buy happiness, then why do they work so hard to hold onto it?

As someone who grew up in Harlem I completely agree. It is sad to become an adult and not be able to afford the place you were raised. And the people who move to New York because it’s a novel experience, but don’t get to know their community or participate in local business…spot on.

I went to a very exclusive private school for girls, on a special scholarship because of my “gifted child” status and my test results. The girls were very polite to me, but I wish the management hadn’t told everyone that I was a “charity student”. It created a distance that otherwise I don’t think would have been there. The girls meant well, I believe, but I was still inadvertently excluded from really being one of the group. I resented the teachers, especially, calling me that every time they saw me. What children most want at school is to feel that they belong. I should have, my grandfather, a building contractor, built that school in the 1930s.

38:34 that Isles/Aisles of Gristedes story was a thing of beauty. Bravo to your dad’s wit - that’s something money can’t buy!

I loved what Dutch said about people moving to neighborhoods but not being a part of the actual community or realizing a community exists. Everything he said about people moving to NYC and treating it as an adult playground is spot on. I live in a Boston-adjacent city that completely turns over 60% of the population every 3-4 years, and it's also full of young adults who seem completely shocked there are kids here, and a school system, and community amenities that are for kids.

I felt this. I was born and raised in LES manhattan, chinese, and its just sad coming back year after year (to visit) and seeing my community slowly dying out. Now 25 years later, im somewhat back. Living in queens now. Sad its just really not affordable for us regular people anymore. My mom used to work in some textile factory.

I grew up in New York but was priced out in my mid twenties around 2004 ( my neighborhood on west 231st got a target and everything was screwed after that ). Hearing you refer to yorkville as affluent is wild! The last time I visited from CA, which was right before COVID, I went to Williamsburg and was shocked to find a bunch of white young people had replaced everyone . Where did everyone go. Honestly . Did the move to New Jersey?

9:26 I cried so much at the beginning. I grew up in the Bronx but I know I can’t really go back if I want to get out of poverty because it’s so expensive and it breaks my heart to not be able to go back home

I studied abroad in Italy, and we had a few students from a private university that was old money town in New England. And it so bizarre how so disconnected they were from the rest of us who were on scholarships and having to take out loans or GoFundMe to be there. Along with how they kept to themselves and were cliquey about interacting outside their bubble and could tell they were just there to check off a place on their list to say they've been to.

I fully admit I was always glad I grew up working class/lower middle class in a small town filled with people in the same income bracket. It made you feel less odd one out. I already felt left out for other reasons. The class difference would have made that worse.

I just don’t want the stress that comes with not having enough money! When things are really tight money-wise, the stress never lets up, it’s soul-eroding. My regular grocery order was $89 in March, now it’s $140 for the exact same list! I hate having to exclude the healthy foods I love most, like fish, pre-washed salad greens (the washing is painful and hard with my back trouble), blueberries and almonds because they’re too expensive! Poverty is bad for health in so many ways besides the obvious medical expenses. If I have to go to a special clinic in the city nearby, it’s $30 extra for parking and tolls.

A big part of the fascination with the Old Money Aesthetic is to due with this modern Gilded Age that we are living through. The gap is so huge right now that it makes these lifestyles more otherworldly and fascinating and we have social media to give us a glance behind the curtain.

“Gay Fran Drescher.” Intended to be an insult but a really the highest of compliments, so joke’s on them.

He shouldn't feel stupid for not being able to think of a place where suburban kids go to hang out. In many cases, the answer is simply "they don't". I went to the mall as a kid, but it was only because my mom needed to buy us new clothes (which I hated) or didn't want to leave me at home alone while she shopped for herself.

I've dated an old money millionaire and everything isn't what it seems, it broke my dissolution right on down. I am grateful for what I have I am building my wealth at my own pace, but getting a peak behind the veil woke me all the way up.

I’m a nanny who was raised in a major city, and it’s so fascinating to see the reactions some of the people I work for (especially the suburban ones) have to the idea that my parents didn’t move to the suburbs. I’ve also had some really nice moments of talking with families who moved into the city with their kids about the benefits of being a kid in a major city and how good of an experience I had！

I was born and raised in the lower east side, and due to cost-of-living kept getting pushed farther and farther outward. Before I bought my apartment in the Bronx, I looked at affordable housing. I never qualified because I made too much for the poor bracket, and too little for the wealthier bracket. The few apartments that I qualified for were in neighborhoods, that were not very nice, and the rent was higher than what I was paying at my current location of the time I always hated the CB preference because I was no longer living in the district that I grew up in and felt that I was cheated. The only reason why I own an apartment is because my father gave me money for a down payment and I live in the very cheapest place you can afford in the Bronx. There is nothing around me and I have very few peers so it’s very lonely.

Yep, Yep…… Welcome to Bloomberg City. The place where billionaires and millionaires play monopoly.🤦🏾‍♂️🧏🏾‍♂️👍🏿🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲

This hit home. Same exact thing is happening here in Montana. People come out here acting like it's their personal playground while displacing long-time locals and changing the culture. Its infuriating.

I miss growing up in Brooklyn. I have so many good memories. The diversity is being pushed out, but I know that NY is a place that is constantly changing. Many of those newbies will leave and hopefully, homes will become available to a diverse population of working ppl. Bc NY thrives on its diversity of ppl food and culture. NY is truly a place where everywhere you go, there u are.

I'm just listening and it sounds SO MUCH like LA. Transplants have such a wildly different view than native LA folk.

Omg! So excited for this collab. I was screaming during the intro “please be Dutch, please be Dutch!”

57:00 I love teachers that like their students!!❤ it's so refreshing to see people in education who actually have a passion for it👏🏾👏🏾 good for you! Better for our future😂

I don't have TikTok, so I can't follow him. However, I really like this guy. He is smart and funny.

I’m so happy class consciousness and eat the rich is happening now, instead of rich worship (I mean, rich worship still happens but there’s a huge pushback at least)

This episode is so refreshing. I follow him on tiktok and I love how grounded he is! His takes are amazing!

What a super fun conversation!! It makes me think of the fantastic book Primates of Park Avenue. Worth reading... an author goes deep with an anthro/sociological lens but gets pulled way in. It's hilarious, wild, sober, all the things.

Its nice to see representation. My oldest sibbling and I are the few in our family that ever experienced a similar situation where our parents essentially pulled out of poverty and that resulted in us going to a public school with kids from wealth. We were also located in an area where the closest community college to us resided in a rich neighborhood. Pretty much all the rich kids who were too dumb to make it into a university or college ended up here. The privilege was unreal to the point one of my professors even agreed and told me he hated how racist people were. Alot of wealth people say the most dehumanizing things because they have never been told otherwise. If they wanted to they could destroy your career just because they didn't like you. Like my ears even hearing privledge young adults saying things like trashing their brand new car because it wasnt the car they wanted just sounds unreal. That kid who crashed her car got her dream car by the end of the week to replace it.

It is so fascinating to hear a New Yorkers perspective on integration into the culture. Living in NC, we always complain about NYrs moving here and not integrating into our culture. Never really thought about it in the reverse. Very interesting!!

Basic thing should be universal healthcare. I will never understand US lack of health care access

Excellent post. What a likeable guest.

Money can’t buy happiness, maybe, but it can buy security. Without security, there can’t be much happiness.

As a native San Franciscan who grew up with a single mother- I feel everything he’s saying to my core. People coming in, driving up rent, complaining about where they live while not contributing a single thing, then leaving. Plus: needing $75k/ye to qualify for affordable housing. Like, HELL NAH. So much is wrong with that.

I would say TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE RECISSION! Recessions are an unavoidable part of the economic cycle; all you can do is prepare for them and plan accordingly. I graduated into a slump (2009). My first job after graduating from college was as an aerial acrobat on cruise ships. Today, I work as a VP for a global corporation, own three rental properties, invest in stocks and businesses, run my own company, and have increased my net worth by $500k in the last four years

Hi, new sub here! I adore him!!!! What a brilliant interview!!! I really like how you allowed him to talk without any interruptions. It made for an informative and interesting discussion from your guest!!

I grew up in NYC & did my full schooling there. Having lived on the west coast for a few years now, I would only want to raise my kids there. I want them to have similar experiences and be exposed to different people, ideas, and cultures. Most places feel very cookie cutter.

42:21 My god, ngl, the life of those rich kids seems scary. I babysat for working/middle class (new professionals) people and it was so different. I would literally be outside with the kids all day. Like we would just walk all over until it was time to go home and nap. It was so fun.

I love Dutch this was such a great interview. So many insights and gyms were dropped. I hope you guys get to talk again

Wow. How is income supposed to match a 16% rent hike?

45:50 “I’ve ridden in cars before” is such a hilarious line. Loved it.

This is a phenomenal interview. Thank you! Love your channel 🙂.

Dallas has a similar concept called in town units. I stayed in a building that allowed 10% of there apartments for the program. It wasn’t a lottery though. They would update the website whenever those apartments were available and you just have to apply and make sure your salary was in a particular range so proof of income every year was mandatory. At the time market rent waa $1400-$1800 but I only paid $910 plus utilities ans a parking spot. It was a very nice high rise in downtown Dallas. I think the rent has gone up slightly though for the program.

My two cents on the old money aesthetics : I don’t think it’s necessarily opposite to eat the rich, when poorer people appropriate rich culture, it’s becomes tacky. Let coastal grandma become tacky and what’s left for them to signal their wealth ?

The piece about stability is the part of the class gap which you can have a whole show on to talk about different perspectives

Not sure where else to request this, but I'm a college student about to transfer and take on more loans, and I'm really overwhelmed with trying to understand what the best way to navigate these financial decisions is. I'm first generation and receiving no family aid (despite EFC factoring into my financial aid package), and feel totally unprepared to take on this financial responsibility and would love some guidance and real life examples.

Dutch seems lovely. Shocking about his experience applying for housing in NYC 😢 i had no idea it was THAT bad. If only there was more affordable housing.

Amazing talk, I have learned so much about NY. What a put-together guy he is!

LITERALLY SCREAMED I love dutch so much he’s the best!!!

Dutch! Love your content on all platforms, so happy to see you here too! I got pushed out of NYC by the rent prices, and then a month later… won the housing lottery. It was “only” 2800 for a 2 bed. 😅

Super interesting! I related to the segment about families in cities! I live in a small city (150 000) and we chose to continue living downtown when we had our son and people judged us SO much! But we both go to work walking, we have grocery story, drug store, restaurants and much much more so close! And we do have a backyard so to me he's lucky to grow up here :)

35:23 Because they go specifically to relax. That’s it. And they do have excursions that go off site at those types of resorts as well.

What an amazing collaboration!

He’s very relatable and down to earth! Enjoyed this episode.

7 high rises in 10 years is crazy!!!!!!!

What a wonderful guest! I loved this episode!

Omg I love him! For some reason I knew you were talking about him just by the intro. There’s many of your guests that appear in your videos/podcasts. Gotta love my algorithm ❣️

I absolutely loved this conversation/interview!!

The way he is preaching about NYC is soooo real!!

Could you guys have Shabaz says on your show? I saw a podcast with him and he is great.

A long time ago I was quasi babysitting kids from “normal backgrounds” along with kids of UHMW. I can relate to the stories.

TFC x BeKindRewind please!

Going to the “Isles of Gristedes” absolutely slays.

He seems like a great teacher and nanny. These kids are lucky! :)

I've never heard a rich person say that money doesn't buy happiness. Not saying they say the opposite either. But that particular saying - I have never heard it from a rich person. Also that house in the Hamptons is comes with a 30k+ tax bill and probably 30-60k maintenance depending on how close to sea you are. And the insurance is probably another 5 to 20k depending on location. So if you live in the NYC (considering NY and NYC taxes) - having that house alone is 200k of pre-tax income. So 'just having a house in the Hamptons' - presupposes realistically 500k+ annual income to maintain it.

I agree with inequality being a problem, but as an individual, I think we need more empowering narratives. If we're going to be stuck with inequality then we less well-off people need to focus on building wealth. So we need to talk about practical ways to save money, earn higher salaries and invest. Also to maintain our psychological health we need to look into Stoicism, Eastern philosophy, etc. And we should not forget the problems of inherited wealth, such as their atrophying of intellectual and emotional intelligence or them being overly financially dependent on family which can limit their freedom.

New York city sounds like a different world compared to what I am used to😢

STOP BEST GUEST EVER AND THE COLLAB I NEVER KNEW I NEEDED 😭

Do I need to download tik tok for his content? Uugh where is his you tube channel?

In my experience, the more money someone has, the more frugal. So the apartments falling apart doesn't really surprise me. They just can't justify spending the money on it.

Yaaay! I love it! Dutch is the best!

The gay Fran Drescher? That's actually pretty cool 😊

He's precious 💕

This guy is so wholesome!

It is like they live in a bubble of wealth

I grew up in the leafy south eastern neighborhoods of Brooklyn, and it was, and still is, like Mayberry. Beaches and parks galore, safety, diversity, affordable housing stock, plentiful public and private education options, big sky, fresh air, backyards. We grew up visiting museums and attending educational and cultural events every weekend, and missed out on nothing. Anyone opting to raise their children in Manhattan or trendy gentrified neighborhoods is NUTS - good luck enjoying recreation with your kids in those jam-packed brownstone neighborhood playgrounds, UGH. I really believe those parents are essentially thinking of their own needs.

10:20, 19:50, 22:20, 27:00-27:30-28:30, 31:50, 36:00, 37:40, 42:00, 43:50, 47:50, 52:35