Genwunner | The Problem with Pokemon's Artstyle 

Still, THANK YOU for making this

if there was a jail for crimes against art you should be send there a couple of months for daring to upload this garbage nonsense ramble

Having the different art styles creates a diverse array of looks and appearances. They should keep both, add more, and not faze any of it out.

Don't let reddit-tier deboonking arguments get to you, your thesis in this was pretty damn good.

Im glad I saw this comment. I initally saw this video in my feed, not realizing it was from years ago, and felt a little disappointed by the video. You started touching upon some interesting ideas, but then didnt actually explore them. It kind of felt like it was "present conflict in Pokemon fanbase, talk about other games that changed styles, represent conflict in Pokemon fanbase" without actually talking about the changes in pokemons artstyle, or even why Pokemons artsyle has changed/stayed the same.

The gen two Art in my Platinum Trainer Guide Book is just so appealing to me

I love and miss the old art style.

@@metroidmayhem8463 yeah me too, and it's a shame they didn't use it more

@@roalddreagan Yeah and it really show its beauty during the early card games. Beautiful pieces of art

@@metroidmayhem8463 yeah they were beautiful. they need to bring it back!

Ehhhhh..... I think what Crystal Aria means to say is that not all starters are anthropomorphic animals and that anthropomorphic animal designs aren't all bad. It's not furry fanservice. Sure, some pokemon have become quite popular in the furry community *coughcough Zeraora Lucario Incineroar*, but that doesn't automatically mark them as bad. I hope that answers your question. And no. I am not a furry. I know my name says otherwise, but just trust me on this one.

@@kittyatomic0147 I'm impressed you understood all that from two words tbh

So they can have more pokemon to make into characters for the anime? The more human-like a pokemon is, the human expressions they can use in the anime

Specifically the fire types. Every single one of them is a bipedal, with a good portion even being somewhat humanoid. At least the other starters are sometimes not bipedal, like Venusaur, Meganium, Swampert, Torterra, Serperior

I hate the more human-y designs lol. Like, it feels really wrong to literally own a being that looks like they could be your roommate or something.

Too late now... It would have at least made the transition easier, though it might have ended up like the gen 7 anime

This is especially jarring with the eevee's, you put sylveon next to the original 3 without looking at eevee and they don't look that related beyond both based on cats and foxes, while with the originals even though they all have very different traits they definitely look like they're in the same family Editing this to say i absolutely love sylveon before anyone yells at me lol, it's just the art style is very different, I love a lot of the new pokemon and dislike some old ones but i do have a small preference for the old art style. It doesn't bother me that much though bc fanart exists lol

@@tonkuriihq8133 Yeah, all the other eeveelutions use a single main color + ONE extra fur color, with vaporeon getting some extras with its fins and spine things. Sylveon uses two pinks and two blues, plus white, with a bunch of markings and color division.

I disagree imo i think they all fit well together

@tonkuriiHQ I was under the impression all of the eeveelutions are they are foxes even beyond gen 3. I'll admit it was very jarring and still is very hard for me to find arts of Jolteon I like. The original art and the fact it really "Transforms" for battle (the hairs turn to spikes) is because looking at the original art vs something like the delta card art is just....very difficult to accept idk it might be 1000% preference but it's really what I feel, they did an amazing Job in N64 stadium for the 3d models but I totally see what you mean. The artist that took the liberty to show what art style changes could be like, I ended up liking 80-90% but as I look at the regionals I'm not really bugged maybe because I understand it's a new gen and new art but with ash...oh go they took the magical forever 10 year old and erased his shape(s) like kinda how Eddy took Jimmy's outline in Ed Edd n' Eddy. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gKKdTlvZ5kI.html I get it pokemon has been aimed at kids, and it always has been (exception for the bloody managas) and now its reaching a wider audience but yeah the art has been a nostalgia trip when you look back at the gen 1 starter decks and such. Fat pikacu and all I really like the clay art from gen 1 (I never thought it was watercolor but if it is I learned something) but some of the pokemon won't translate over. At the end of the day it's an art preference and I already agree yes pokemon is feeling like the 2 or so year Nintendo COD.

Just look at the eyes.

@@AndersonMallonyMALLONY-EricCF that's how I finally pinpointed it was the art style I didn't like, not the Pokemon. I notice a distinct difference I think around gen 4, the eyes started getting rounder. Then I noticed some of the other things like less detail

I love joltik. and galvantula obvs

Same

FAT PIKACHU FOR THE WIN

Especially when it turns out the dex cut was just to sell the missing dex entries back to you at a premium, one dlc at a time.

@@propheinx2250 You don't need to buy the DLC to get the returning Pokémon. They'll be put into the base game in a free update at the same time, so you can still catch and trade them without paying any money.

@@naetle07 we'll see.

@@propheinx2250 They confirmed this when the DLC was announced. It was in the Direct.

@@naetle07 we'll see.

I think the initial inspiration that Satoshi Tajiri used for the gen1 designs was actual biology book about native flora and fauna in certain places. He used the art in those books to keep the feel of “realism” in the mon’s designs.

@@frownyclowny6955 Seeing as how Vileplume is literally a Rafflesia...

I would say that the newer design look too personality-driven. The older ones were more multi-dimensional, more animal like and could have different personalities depending upon their trainer or in the wild and their upbringing.

The way I always saw it was that it was a change from fantasy animals to figurines/plushies.

I honestly liked the gen 1 artstyle. However, I thought as the games progressed and the pokedex progressed it made sense the new pokemon looked more like photographs. Well that was just my though but the hand drawn artstyle was probably just the best in my opinion especially venasaur and any raticate

Not sure why you are adding Dragon Quest in your list, when the designer of these characters and monsters is Akira Toriyama, who is the mangaka of Dragon Ball. It is also one of the most beloved JRPGs in Japan and usually aimed at an older audience than Pokemon. Which is why Dragon Quest still has the beloved ingame Casino to get some rare items and Gamefreak scrapped the Casino since Gen 4 I believe - to be able to get a lower rating on their games. It's very clear Gamefreak would go for a simpler style these days as all Pokemon need to make 3D models, animated them, many Pokemon appear in the Anime and they also sell merchandise like plushes. I don't blame them and in fact I still like the designs even as someone who started the franchise in the 90ies with the first Gen. Gen 1 has a special place in my heart but honestly, newer Pokemon are far more creative, yeah some of them are silly, some of them are ugly but that's to be expected when you create over 900 of them.

@@knight4041 I would like that they remade older mons in to the new artstyle, it would just looks all more cohesive.

How did you live in Japan? What type of job 😛

well that weird cause the majority of their sales come from over seas seeing how japans birthrate is abysmal. they sell more adult diapers', so i know they cant be focused on japan with that in mind.

@@knight4041 I would say dragon quest has a rather childish look to it. Its Toriyama's style. Monsters/animals he draws look goofy, unless he wants something to look menacing like Hirudegarn or something.

That’s not true most of gen 8 is ugly as shit.

@@TimPatDuDe examples?

Grimmsnarl kind of looks like a throwback pokemon you could see in the old games. Reminds me of primeape and gengar.

I don't think an art style change can completely explain away the increased amount of inanimate pokemon/uninteresting designs. I know many people will point out that those existed in gen 1 as well, but those many times had at least a little plausible logic behind them, and logically going forward if you thought they where a problem in gen 1 you shouldn't make excuses for them in later generations.

the last cool ugly pokemon was garbodor, and y'all shat on him the whole time, despite him being great

It's more like "pokemon have less texture" or "pokemon are plastic toys" imo Pikachu went from chub to no chub - is now smooth Mewtwo went from angular joints to smooth In comparison to Pidgey and Spearow, all birds are now smooth All starters are now made of smooth shapes, in comparison to the ridges, bumps and pudge of the earliest starters.. And so on and so forth. It's all so _smooth_

Round, smooth and simple are design traits naturally more appealing to wider audiences and easier to sell (easier for the brain to process, it actually ticks boxes in peoples brains when it comes to something aesthetically appealing). This is literally the only thing Pokemon is about now, selling easy and selling big. This is common in a lot of series once they get really big for too long, art styles frequently dumb down to appeal to general, non-fan audiences. Unlike developers who care about what they're making and have their own standards and a creative vision, Game Freak are really only trying to tick mandatory boxes so their product will sell and make as much money as possible. Pokemon isn't a cool video game series anymore, it's just a recognizable, money making brand, like something from Disney. It's painful, but I think very true.

@@Squishito I wouldn't say it's "dumbed down" -- the word you need to use is homogenized. The style of Pokemon has evolved alongside children's toys and animation, which you will note have also become more rounded and simplified for production and aesthetic reasons. The problem that a lot of people feel but are unable to express is that when a series like Pokemon becomes a homogenized product it loses its identity and initial appeal. Yes, the designs are still good, colourful and marketable, but what use is that when they have given up the smaller details that defined their product from the rest of the market? If it weren't for the series' pre-established name, I don't know if it could ever take off like it did. I mean, the style is simplified enough now that Yokai Watch's yokai, Temtem, Ni No Kuni's creatures and even Digimon Appli Monsters can sit side-by-side with Pokemon from the last 3 regions and not look out of place at all.

@@conspiracypanda1200 Yes, that's pretty much what I just wrote.

@@Squishito There's a very subtle difference between "dumbing down" and homogenization, but I get where you're coming from. One has more of an attack and blame mentality, as though this degeneration was 100% purposeful, while the other simply acknowledges that this was an evolutionary inevitability. Point is we both agree, though we clearly have varying feelings on the subject.

Interesting. The best example I can think of is My Little Pony. That thing is even older than pokemon. The origional My Little Pony characters were very realistic. Imagine if one would take a real life pony. Then they colored it pastel colors. then they put symbols on thier flanks. Then that would be what the origional My Little Pony characters would look like. It is the first generation. Over time the ponies have changed in design. Now they are really different they are much rounder and cuter. The hoofs are more subtle in apearence. This is to gove a certain appeal. My Little Pony is mainly a toy franchise. So they are going for a round and cute appearence to sell more toys. The latest generation is the fourth one. The ponies there are so stylized they hardly look like the real thing anymore. One could mistaken the ponies for some other animal, like a dog or cat. My Little Pony has finish gen 4. It will release gen 5 in the near future. In the gap, there is the My Little Pony Life. This is where the trend goes to a reduculous extreme. I understand what they are going for here. Yet I think it may go too far. It helps to have big heads to make a creature cuter and more baby like. Yet these ponies have heads so big that they look like they are going to tip over. It is a bit distracting for me.

I don't see this as a sustainable strategy. The awesome character design is what drove the initial enthusiasm.

I once read that the best designs for children's characters is a character the children could draw and replicate by themselves easily, so rounder and simpler shapes fits with that.

@@jaritos675 Honestly the anime is probably the cause of that. They even changed the sprites in Yellow to be based entirely on the anime.

@@jaritos675 if clearly is considering pokemon is one of if not the most profitable video game franchises of all time. and almost anyone you ask would know who pikachu/charizard is

I don't know that I buy that plushie appearnaces have an inherently greater appeal for in-game models of Pokemon. It's really just about being able to sell those plushies. On the one hand, cute _does_ help with plushies, and on the other, less detail makes them easier and cheaper to mass produce than an accurate Mewtwo or Kingler Gen 1 plush would be

@@chompythebeast Think of it this way. Humans are mammals. What appeals to mammals? Courtship and offspring. Like the saying 'Sex Sells', you can argue that 'Babies and everything that reminds me of babies sells'. These 'Monsters' transitioned into adorable mascots because selling cute mascots proved to be a profitable strategy.

Exactly. What are people going to do, refuse en masse to buy new Pokemon content because the art style is sliding towards simplification and the designs are getting more and more busy, when far larger numbers of people will eat up whatever bears the brand and marketing power of Pokemon? And you can't pin the change down to one generation; it's been happening bit by bit ever since Gold and Silver, so not many people realize exactly what changed, and that's if they have a problem with it. The story is the same with changes to other aspects of the franchise like music or gameplay. It's gradual change, and not to aspects most people would think were worth getting up in arms over. Game Freak doesn't care about Pokemon fandom because they don't have to, and it's frustrating as hell.

Fuckin A

The games do very well, but to this day, the first two gens are the most successful. I think the fact that Pokémon has many successful ventures outside of the core series has more to do with it. I can't think of many series where the video game main and side series, the anime, movies, mobile games, card games, toys, plushes, clothing line, etc. are all incredibly successful on their own markets.

@@lirfrank I think your first two points are more related than you think. Because the earlier generations have more of a history of merchandise, adaptations and spinoffs, early Pokemon's popularity has tended to snowball.

@@theinvisibleskulk4563 Oh, I agree that the first gen in particular is the one pushing through many of it. Not a coincidence it's always the one they choose when they dip their toes into something new. Even the Detective Pikachu movie had all the key Pokémon be gen1. But I'm arguing the stagnation of the core series has little to do with the success of the series as a whole.

@Hero-Of Courage A lot of cutesy Legendaries though

@Hero-Of Courage -- Calm down, I didn't say they were _all_ the same. It's a hypothetical, that's why I'm not referring to anything specific. I'm pointing out there are only so many ways to apply neoteny in design. Thus the danger still applies to this subset of cute critters.

@Hero-Of Courage -- Is that my argument? I don't recall dismissing any exceptions. I said differentiating simplistic designs becomes more difficult over time with more monsters.

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 ha yes, my favorite legendaries : the cute ones, like Lunala, Yveltal, Eternatus, the Ultra Beasts and the forms of Kyurem. Not like the non-cute from the first gens, you know like Mew, Celebi and Jirachi

@@siragon756 Cherry picked in both regards

They really could've just refined the sprite angle and it would've still sold gang busters. I hate they felt compelled to just jump on the 3D bandwagon for their core series games.

@@MikeSandersonVideos not their choice

@@MikeSandersonVideos The TPC probably persuaded them after a Vocal Part of the Pokemon Community complained about Pokemon not being Modern enough and not keeping up with newer trends in Gaming.

@@MikeSandersonVideos i mean .... mantaining the Sprite would mean the game would stuck to the usual formula of random encounter, which i think It would have gone stale After a while. what's noticable is that by the Nintendo desiring of making Pokémon their Call of Duty the 3D Sprite of 800+ Pokémon never got the love and soul they deserved (compared to stadium of Battle Revolution)

@@Mepphy99 Implementing 3D surely doesn't alter how the game functions though?

he's saying they changed to a more simplistic, easy design from the earlier designs with harder edges, etc. but refuse to change again as many fans are tired of this art style, and prefer the old style.

@@nightlygarbagerun7395 Maybe. Pokemon like Dragapult, Grimmsnarl, Centiskorch show that they're still willing to have edgier pokemon (check out those eyes! a lot like gen 1) so I think they actually are willing to experiment and do different things

@@JelloImpact grimmsnarl made me happy to see as we haven't had many edgy pokemon like that since gen 4

@@nightlygarbagerun7395 Thanks for clarifying my poorly spoken words haha. I realized this a few days ago and pinned a comment explaining what my poorly written script should have said instead.

@@SirBaconFace haxorous hydriegon sawk bisharp a lot of gen 5 has strong hard rigged edgier designs

And also, if Pokémon looked like this in the first place, I never would’ve been interested

that's how I felt about dialga and palkia as a kid. You sure these things are pokemon?

It feels like a whole different set of people are designing these latest gens, but not in a good way. They seem like creatures taken from a property similar to a -Mon, but off-brand in that way. There's such a distinct style clash between the Klink line, and the Magnet Boiz, even though they're functionally very similar, it just kinda takes me out of the experience. But I might just be a Pokéboomer, as differentiated from Genwunner, cos Skarmory is my fave and my knowledge is mostly up to Gen 3 where I dropped off.

Astute observation. Very well put.

@@MasonOfLife Same. They had a more rustic, wild appearance to them. I see people posting new official art of the old ones which doesn't show how they did look. I wish the series went with the Manga tone. I love how Pikachu looks like in generations and how Origins depicted Pokemon.

True, especially your point of Pokemon not looking uniformly accurate within the franchise. The newer Pokemon don't look like they are from Pokemon, but are monsters from a childrens cartoon by Nickelodeon. It really went crazy

This is so accurate.

Yep it's not just about art style but rather how well they handled the design within that style... take a modern example of character design from Genshin Impact - both the 2D character imagery and the 3D model are amazing... Pokemon design on the other hand just feel lazy and unpolished...

i like the art style and especially in the gen 7 anime i think they went in the right direction plus there is also the fact that gen 1 looks ugly and youre wrong

Ehm, back then they made the art based on the sprites, not the other way around.

This is 100% a valid criticism of this video. My argument is washed and not very concise, and at this point I rather write it off as "my first video essay." I really should have proof read this script more and had some input before I finalized it haha. I elaborated a bit on it in the pinned comment above, but tldr I felt it was making a gradual change for the simplistic rather than an outright intentional art style change like the Zelda franchise.

@@just.cody. Ok that makes more sense. Thank you for clarifying! Also, I got recommended a similar video on the same topic which discusses a similar thing to you but goes over different examples, I think it's a good watch since you clearly are interested in the topic of pokemon's artstyle change ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-q9pGtlafRvY.html

I'm 5 minutes in and yeah, this dudes video is already way better than mine ngl lol. Why can't his video get the views this one did?

@@just.cody. both your videos are really good man, don't put yourself down. This is a great video I was just confused as what you wanted that's all. I feel like both of these videos are great looks at the subject in their own way (yours is more about the gradual change and its impact on the fans, while the other is about different eras of design and the art principles in each). I do agree it deserves more views than it has though, it's unfortunate how many great videos from small creators go unnoticed.

@@just.cody. so basically your point (if I understand correctly) is that you think Gamefreak/the pokemon company should commit to more drastic changes?

Same but grew up playing X/Y

The art style I can understand. Its when people attack the pokemon and players themselves just for having a differing opinion. I personally prefer the newer art style and I DID grow up with the old school art. I started with Yellow and Crystal. But I’ll always prefer the newer style. But there’s nothing wrong with that

I feel like Pokemon fans are just driving everyone away from Pokemon. I started with ORAS, my favorite Pokemon games are Diamond and X, and Black 2/White 2 are the worst games in my opinion, and I think Sword/Shield look like the coolest games. You can tell I get a WAY too much hate just because my views aren't the "norm" within Pokemon's community. I really don't have high expectations for new Pokemon games, and I play them casually, but I am really obsessed with them. I often get scared that I might get a reply from some genfiver saying "You're not a true Pokemon fan". Look, all I want to do is enjoy Pokemon without being bullied for me liking it a certain way, I didn't do anything wrong....

@@thischannelisinactiveimsor9500 Yeah it's a bit sad that it's like that. Hopefully the community will outgrow it one day.

Omg I saw also saw friends play with Black and White, but platinum was my first since my uncle gave it to me as a gift, then I played Y when it was still relevant. Good innocent times

Lucky Paola Studios lol

Comes in the Japanese name! Pocket Monsters. Its hard to picture a lot of modern starters as wild animals. Especially Intelion and Cinderace.

I wouldn't want to catch something like a frickin Golbat if it had that monstrous cavity and a tongue slimy than the skin of a grimer if Golbats started to exist like in the gen1 games

@@SheIsAVampireBat I can easily relate modern Pokemon to wild animals, in fact I see pokemon in wild animals. A fully grown rabbit is a cinderace to me, an adult lizard living in the water is Inteleon to me.

Older Pokémon were not edgy, only gen 5 tried to go that ruote and failed Sugimori design was to make thing cool but with some sort of flaw to make them unique and memorable, even the edgiest design of earlier gen are nothing compared to things like haxorus

@@M1551NGN0 "A fully grown rabbit is a cinderace to me, an adult lizard living in the water is Inteleon to me" This has to be parody because that's hilarious

He should have put that a bit longer for us to catch properly

Ryan Reynolds is the cutest and best Pikachu design Change my mind

i thought it was superman...

That true but pokemon doesn't have to be animal in ther design make look good

Gen 4 was peak for me

Agreed

Very.

As someone who's always liked both I can definitely say Some Pokemon have looked like digimon, a lot of digimon look like Pokemon, and both franchises have gone through a lot of artists with very little aesthetic coherence between them. But with Digimon, it's always more justified because they're all artificial, they're sentient amalgamations of random computer data.

But they aren't Pokemon.

Yeah ask pm7 what is huntail

I'm sorry lol, though to be honest I didn't enjoy Skyward Sword myself. Much too fetch-questy and slow paced for me. My favorites are a tie between ALttP and BotW!

@@just.cody. Absolute casual. Only a true gamer can appreciate the responsiveness of the Motion Plus controls.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions and preferences obviously but, dang. I could write an essay on why I think SS is one of the most beautiful, underappreciated games in the entire LOZ franchise. The OST, art, themes.

Oh I loved it aesthetically, and the motion plus was a blast, it was the pacing I held most of my issue with. Similar to why I'm not keen on future replays of Twilight Princess. Amazing themes and designs, but a tutorial that drags harddddd.

@@AnnaHans88 SS has some of the best elements of the series. But as a all, it doesn't work very well. The Sky Overworld is empty and lifeless, and the Eldin and Faron's levels were linear and forgettable. SS has his strongest bits in the Lanaryu region, especially for his non-linear design, fun time-travel mechanics and good aesthetics. If i remember correctly, part of the stuff of Monolith worked in that specific area. Also Koloktos is one of the best boss fight of the series, but it hardly outmatched a lot of poor choices in that department (recycled Ghiraim/Imprisoned boss fights and some other ugly boss like Tentaclus)

To be fair COD is worked on by different developers every installment, although I can't say the same for the mainline Porkymon titles. If there's any solace out of this, Porkymon has more effort put in than the majority of the sports game that EA and 2k have published in the last decade. ... I think.

I thought that was a remake?

the entire hypno line lol Mewtwo, too actually

@@sobersplash6172 Mewtwo originally looked way more animal-like and had this huge weird head in old art. Then the anime made Mewtwo have a really small head and look way more human-like and they've stuck with that design ever since.

I almost never choose the fire starter, for the exact reason you mentioned lol. Grass and water feels like actual pokemon, while the fire starters final evolution looks half human. Google Incineroar which is from the sun and moon games. It literaly looks like a body builder wrestler with a furry costume on it's the ugliest pokemon ever IMO and it's a fire pokemon starter of course. I've started to refer to the fire starters as the "#1 choise of every 12 YO boy", it feels like they designed the fire starters to cater to immature boys. BTW regular fire pokemon that isn't starters are usualy alot cooler so I catch them instead.

zebnemma wait till you see Inteleon, it is by far one of the worst starter designs i have ever seen

@@zebnemma Well, the fire starter's final forms from gen 1-2 where very animal like, but from gen 3-8 they always go with a more humanoid look which always bothered me. : / I still go with the fire type starter in Pokémon Moon, but I only keep it at Torracat. ; )

This is at the crux of my feelings with the newer Pokemon designs. Personally, I would feel completely fine with many of them if they were tweaked a bit. The heart of it all lies with what priority the developers have when they create Pokemon. Overall, if you look from generation to generation, the intention and priority of prior gen Pokemon were to convey, real living and breathing animal-like Pokemon with some oddballs and Japanese sensible choices mixed in there (which is why we got something like Jynx), they used to be creatures first and concepts second, which is consequently also 1 reason why they can feel more generic. However more and more as gens have passed by, the overall design-language has changed to be focused on inhibiting and conveying concepts, minimizing the expression of the creatures themselves and maximizing the expression of where they're inspired from. Basically, if you look at something like Blastoise and Lugia vs Cinderace and Zygarde. Blastoise is a mishmash of various different aspects that form a specific kind of creature and serves it's overall expression, a giant turtle with shoulder cannon pumps, that can tuck itself into it's shell and do a devastating spinning attack, all of it's aspects are loosely inspired but they're unique put together and distinctly Blastoise. Lugia is a giant water bird, with hand like white wings and streaks of Dark blue informing it's sharp beak like face and down its back. You could maybe loosely find an inspiration for it, but it itself again is very unique and it's expression is entirely its own. Cinderace on the other hand is simple to convey, a soccer playing fire rabbit, it's basically concept first, creature second. Zygarde is clearly based on the norse myth of the Nidhog, that not only conveys its expression as a giant snake under ground, but also its Ground and Dragon typing as Nidhog is a dragon serpent. And that's just the tip of the ice berg.

​@@Yous0147 Completely agreed. I think you hit the nail on the head with "creature vs concept". It makes me think of the legendary dog trio from Gen 2 against the "old cloud men" from Gen 5 (Tornadus, Thundurus, Landorus). The first group feel like beasts with their mythologies tied to the pokemon world. They are a group of dogs that have some crazy designs tied to the elements they wield. They're feel cool to me because they are original. The Cloud Men crew are clearly based on Fujin and Raijin. Maybe a fertility Kami for Landorus. That's pretty much it. They kind of look like genies, but so did the interpretations of the original Japanese kami. It feels super out-of-place to see these clearly Japanese religious figures wandering the countryside next to a Pidgey. It takes me out of the game. Which sucks, cause their alternate forms actually do a good job of re-interpreting the concepts. Gamefreak can make believable creature concepts when they try. They just don't like to as much anymore.

@@0ctopusComp1etely Most modern Pokemon are too obviously meant to be a specific design, a lot of the animal Pokemon are just regular animals with an elemental theme slapped on it, a criticism that was usually thrown at Digimon.

@@Yous0147 I mean if they continue the gen 1 approach. The mons will look like generic.

@@kenmarkollano5795 Not Necassarily. Gen 1 is a bit generic because of its early nature as well as being on limited hardware at a time when games and media were much more homogenous. So they're a product of their time. That changes (or should change) over time as new inspiration and different possibilities and avenues open up. Just look at 2nd and 3rd gen as examples, with Pokemon such as Furret, Typhlosion, Flygon and Milotic, those are not generic designs and expressions in my opinion, but they follow the same guideline keeping them distinctly Pokemon. You find a lot sprinkled into 4th and 5th gen too. I don't mind different designs and ideas, what I do mind is the intention and thought put in behind why those Pokemon exist, and how that informs the design. Basically, instead of saying "hey let's make a genie Pokemon", it's better if you say "hmm genies are cool, can we make it fit into this world? Are there aspects of a genie we can take to inform our design of the new Pokemon? What other things could be really cool to add." That's one difference.

I think one of the reasons why they do gen 1 is because ALOT of the pokemon are just a creature or object with a element. Ex: sandslash, rapidash, golem. Or just have boring concepts like muk, far fetched, raticate and more. They are good but just kinda uninteresting. I do agree that they should give love to others generations and stop giving the same pokemon over and over attention.

@@BelleTheMagazine My big bro is 27 yold, he would gladly play a gen 1 game because thats what he played back in the days, Charizard is obviously his favorite pokemon. He doesnt know any other gens. If you market Gen 1, you touch almost everyone, from the oldest to the youngest. The only people that are tired of that are the big fan because Charizard already has 4 different forms and we have already played way too much pokemon game with Kanto in it (RGB, Yellow, GSC, RFLG, HGSS and Lets Go).

Us "genwunners" are the ones who made this whole thing a success in the first place, it wasn't just a big series like now, it was a social phenomenon out of the blue. We're probably by far the biggest fan base of any generation and the ones with most buying power due to age and interest.

@@MS-vn2pb not really true though. Most people who bought gen 1 probably don't play the game anymore as they are a lot older. They are probably less serious about the changing nature of the games or the tv show. Just because you were there when it was released doesn't mean ur opinion matters more.

@@PC-qw2so What are you even talking about? He said "genwunners" not everyone who played the game while they were a kid. Sit your ass back down, you're talking out of it.

Ironically, I remember growing up how digimon was considered the "hardcore" version of pokemon.

That statement is always so uncalled for Considering that Digimon actually come from Tamagotchi

People who say this has probably never seen digimon beyond renamon or agumon.

If it looked like Digimon it would be awesome

This comment. Digimon has always had far more complex designs than any pokemon. So why is it being compared to today's 'simplistic' pokemon designs? I have no clue. Digimon all had outfits, gears, lots of tiny accessories on each of them and patterns. Just frickin look at GABUMON. Complex design for a feckin rookie.

Peter Parker agreed. The new cover art feels so emotionless and bland. The in game world is nice and accurate tho

First time I head about the "genwunner" meme. Anyone who is using this to insult someone is probably just jealous because they didn't experience the series from the start. I like most generations but if you didn't experience from the start you will never be equal to someone who grew up when it all started.

It's well known Game Freak does not take feedback from their fanbase. There are also numerous interviews where Matsuda explains his intentions to pander to children and simplify the game to an insulting degree. This was especially apparent in LGPE and SuMo. The change in art direction, both in the games and anime, was also an obvious ploy to attract a younger demographic who prefer the cute form factor in their pokemon.

FG 117 what the fuck are you on about 😂

While I do agree that there is a general shift in design, it's not as complete as the Reddit post made it to be. See this image: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/197250053302124544/585971572917927976/15597769022143295005554857757397.jpg

@@godminnette2 Oh without a doubt! Trust me, I may have my general preferences on generations, but you'll never catch me defending Jynx lol

A big part of it was a jump to simplistic 3d models. They make most Pokemon alot rounder then they were originally with the sprites and gives the games a more cuddly aesthetic.

Dev On. It’s to sell to kids because kids don’t criticise games and will obediently buy each instalment with their parents money.

TheGreatjon Umber well duh, they’re kids. Plus, who else’s money are they gonna use lmao

On one hand I understand why they have chosen this art direction. When I was a kid we liked the more realistic looking and squared of edges of things. Pokemon as a franchise wants to aim at kids, and I've noticed that my niece and nephew are scared of more jagged looking things, a problem that I didn't really have. And I think I understand what is really going on when it comes to psychology and why this is and how media are being trained to handle this problem wrong when it comes to art direction. My nephew is like 3, And as I said look at stuff like pokemon brush, its meant for kids in this age range. He gets scared every time he sees someone in trouble, or a sharp face, and I myself was scarred of the dragon from Sleeping beauty at the same age. However my nephew can laugh at things like Hotel Transylvania 2 when he sees the vampires being punched around by small bats. The reason that they are making pokemon flatter, is to try and make them appear less threatening, and give them a wider range of coverage on which designs will appeal to more children, the problem with this is is that they can't keep this up, there are only so many times you can make oval and flatter shapes. Toxtricity Hydreigon, and Talonflame, certainly do look more Realistic, but they also consist of this general change in are design, they all look rounder and flatter compared to previous generations of their comparable counterparts like Kangaskan. I'm not picky, I still like the series, and I understand that these things are going to change. but How its changed I can say is really not the way I would have wanted it too growing up.

I agree it's mostly baby forms that are more cartoony where as the final forms have more detail and are more badass looking ,I also think if all Pokémon designs were like gen one they'd be very similar to each other

Jayden C Same

I do too I like the new Pokémon I just hate how so many Pokémon become bipedal when they evolve

Same

Unpopular opinion: gen 8 looks overly designed, still okay i guess

Same here

Yep, I feel like gen 3 was the absolute peak, and then slightly fell off until it took a nose dive from gen 6 onward. It'd be great to have a "fork" of Pokemon picking things up from Gen 3 and adding pokemon with regard to style, concept and necessity in order to flesh out the world. In spite of all its success, it really feels like pokemon is one of the biggest wasted potentials ever in a gaming franchise. I'm pretty sure they will have to do a "reset" eventually, I just wonder whether they will actually do it well

Most Gen 5 and above pokemon d look weird in real life

My favourite generation are 1 and 5,because both have a very distinct style and feel,two extremes but each one good in his own style, if you notice every odd number generation has a particular style and the following even a more transitorial look from it.

I believe it’s because Gen 3 was more tropical in terms of the region. You’ll realize that in tropical places if the world, animals and insects as well as plants are more colorful looking. They look a little more stranger but they’re still animals. That in itself could justify the overly colorful pokemon for Gen 3. This can apply to Gen 7 as well

I think those arguments are difficult to defend, every generation has had crappy designs. In my opinion the art style has become more simpler and that can be a problem for some ppl but overall i think its a small issue. The big problem for me is the low difficulty of the games. There is no challange anymore, outside of the competitive scene, and that makes creating emotional connections with the new generations really hard because it becomes boring. Everyone has a story on how they caught mewtwo with a single pokeball, how a dumb miltank wiped the floor with them, that lvl 7 trainer using 2 full restores or just CYNTHIA. There are no memes anymore nor any reason to like the underdog ugly pokemon that everyone hates because it carried you through a tough moment during the game.

@@seeker3357 There was never challenge in pokemon games, at least in mainline games.

That issue on its own shows in the 3d models and animation for any Pokemon gen 6 and earlier, even from X/Y to S/M. Gen 7 Pokemon were just that much more lively in animation compared to the static ones first used in X/Y. I still don't like how they did Xatu and every other flying type dirty all because of the gen 6 Sky Battles

I don’t know what all the hate for CoD is when they really did sone great things with Modern Warfare tbh.

CoD is a franchise that takes more risks (world at war with the gruesome depiction of ww2, bo1 with the art-style and the exageration of the cold war, sci-fi opus like bo2, bo3 and advanced warfare that changes from the modern and past realism approach of the franchise, infinity warfare that fell into the fantasy tone, and finally the groundbreaking cod 4) and excels on the technical aspect (im looking at you, Sword and Shield and 4th gen) not a fair comparison

@@CrazyDiamond419 haters gonna hate

Pikminologue Raisin That’s what I’m saying. It’s unfair people comparing massively different games when CoD actually made massive improvements and the same could not be said about current Pokémon games. With the games the Switch can run, there’s no reason why the games couldn’t look better or made massive improvements. For God’s sake man this is the highest grossing franchise and it’s pretty mediocre. It’s time GameFreak got some new staff that actually know how to work with modern programming rather than the clowns they have there now.

@Paul Toledo That isn't an issue, Game Freak have been working on that since gen 5, its why they created a separate team for non Pokemon games. They simply aren't given enough time, and probably not much of a budget either. What people don't often realize is that CoD is put out annually, but has three studios working back to back, so they each have three years. Game Freak on the other hand is expected to put out at least one game per year. There were around 100 people working on SW/SH between them, Creatures inc, and Nintendo. I suspect what's happened is Pokemon Co underestimated how much it would take to make a console scale Pokemon game, or worse they just expected GF to make it work on a shoestring like they always have. People wonder if they're too cheap to hire more staff, I wonder if they aren't being paid chump change like every other dev studio. They only own like 20% of the IP.

Yo no way, thanks, Pad! Fan of your content, btw

Umm.. The older ones were practically real animals.

Wow mukand voltorb looks like animal

Yes

I like am both

Actually Genwunner originated with the Transformer franchise. Its a reference to the transformer fans who preferred the G1 cartoons and toys above all other transformer continuities such as G2 (which was a compilation of G1 episodes of transformers but with some CGI transition screens), Beast Wars (infamiously created the Ruined Forever and Trukk not Munky), the anime trilogy, Live Action Movies (aka Bayformers), and everything post-bayformers.

@@Xenotaris You are fun at parties

As someone who started playing videogames with Pokemon Blue, this made me laugh! :P

In contrast to the 3D model, the gen 5 Ferroseed sprite had some very lively gyrating

Goodra Gang!

same although I love gen 2's style. especially the battle sprites, i think the 4 colour limitation lead to some really aesthetically pleasing designs.

Try heart gold/soul silver sometime. I think you'll like them.

Can confirm. I'm playing through HG/SS right now with a friend of mine. We're doing that "IRL Rival" battle method I mentioned in my other Pokémon video and it's a blast going back through Johto and Kanto again.

Magio Personally, I don’t understand the sound complaint.

You mean, they couldn't just continue to cut corners displaying their ~3 frame walk-cycles and 2 frame talk-cycles again and again in the anime, so they had to save work somewhere else? That's a pretty plausible explanation actually.

It has nothing to do with 3d.

@@renatoramos8834 You're gonna have to tell me why you think so. No offense, but I know what I'm talking about here.

@@Altarior what else do I have to tell you? Gamefreak intentionally half asses the animations. Other companies do a lot more with a lot less. The change to 3d models didn't have any impact on animation or artstyle.

@@renatoramos8834 I agree that they half assed it. In fact I was trying to make the point that it's clear to see in the modelling itself that they half assed it. I'm a modeller and I spot cut corners everywhere in both modelling and animation in these games (I would have failed my exam on my first year if I had handed in most of these cut scenes for my exam project. Would have had to repeat first year for that junk...)

@@Altarior And I'm making the point that gamefreak intentionally half asses it. How much do you think it would cost them to get great animations? 20-30 animators working for a few years and a few million dollars? They had since 2013 to properly update animations and BILLIONS in cash. If you have the most lucrative multimedia brand in the world, certainly you can invest a tiny fraction of your profits in actual quality.

The Coalossal line are some of my favorite Pokémon now. They're creative and well designed.

I agree but the ugly egg shape look left me disappointed. I expected something cool with some mechanical inspiration but it turned out to be Alolan Golem 2.0

They instead went lazy on OTHER important parts of gen8

@COVID-19 PANDEMIC true words

I honestly enjoyed what Gen 8 offered more than some of the other ones. Gen 7 is almost tied, a lot of Gen 6 felt forgettable. The previous ones had bigger selections but also had a lot more filler forgettable mons while newer ones focus on quality and creativity. Maybe some bias, cos of Inteleon being my new all time favorite as someone who loves James Bond and spies, and can personally relate to the entire evolution line. My taste is different I guess since most people seem to prefer just straight up animals that only look cool with a typing slapped onto it, like in the earlier games

Thunderwave Cave didn't have to go that hard but it did.

I don't think they feel more like pets now, I think they feel more like just designs. More like concepts than creatures. Which I actually personally prefer becuase I find the origins of pokemon super interesting and would rather they were less like a regular animal (but that's just me.) For example, take orbeetle and parasect. One a new generation pokemon, one an old generation pokemon, but both are based on similar things (an insect overtaken by a parasite) Parasect looks more like an actual bug that could really exist, while orbeetle is more of a combination of concepts going for a mad scientist/mind control theme. Earlier gens are more real, later gens are more conceptual, and both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Same here 😁

Me too, I started playing pokemone around the time Platinum came out. But my father bought me a gameboy advance sp instead of a DS. So I grew up playing ruby/sapphire and LeafGreen/FireRed. And to this day, those are still some of my all time favourite video games.

lol I've been saying I missed fat Pikachu for years now. He looks so huggable and derpy in his original sprite. But I can definitely see how the sleeker designs make for a much more competent looking Pocket Mon, and completely understand why the change was made. Especially since he's the mascot.

Becareful bro twitter will call you a fat shamer

7dogguy mewtwo looks better now for me lol. But I mean I agree with u totally. I don’t like the old pikachu design but I never liked jigglypuff

Has Mewtwo really been redesigned? If you compare to Gen 1 sprite - well, it has. But if you compare it to the anime - I barely see any changes. I notice a little different proportions but I think... Ok, fine, it's been redesigned. If not taking a shiny form with it's terrible blue-ish shade of green I think the current Mewtwo looks the best. I absolutely love human like pokemon (because they are like friends rather than pets) and the current Mewtwo is the most humanoid one. Mewtwo is my favorite pokemon of all time and I'm happy to see it closer to what I generally like in Pokemon. But yeah, the shiny is trash. Gen 2 shiny was way better (Gen 2 also had the best sprite - the one from Silver) but still not as great as it could be. I think the shiny should be very light pink like Mew (not Mewtwo) from the first movie.

I Think new Bulbasaur beats new pikachu, before he looked dumb and absent minded, new bulbasaur looks friendly.

Yes!!!

Honestly not genwunner is just a spam term used specifically by gen 5 stans considering they have the worst pokemon design. He only described the term from his biased point of view rather than the general use of it

I came here back 5 month later and I didn’t notice the 234 likes I got anyways. For Crowmaster: You are right, I was pretty dumb back than and I post that comment half way the video so I didn’t even watch the full video to post that comment.

I think the other important thing to understand is that the older Pokémon had to be designed on a gameboy colour instead of a switch screen. Pokémon look a lot flashier now because the hardware can support more complicated designs.

swizzermon now that is a great point

I never noticed this. My guess was the 3D game have no colour pallette limitations. The models are made individually, so the colours likely aren't compared with eachother. That's probably why everything looks so washed out. I want to point out the models being so lifeless might also play a part. Gamefreak has an incredible library filled with poses and animations of they're Pokemon, but most aren't used for anything other than Amie/camp.

This is most likely due to the removal of hardware limitations. Until the DS era, Pokemon design had to work within a limited range of colors that the GBC and GBA could produce. This is most apparent in gen 2. The GBC only had enough memory to display 4 different colors on each pokemon, two of which usually being black and white, so no pokemon could realistically have more than two colors. Once that restriction was lifted, the designers had more freedom to chose whatever color they wanted the pokemon to be.

@COVID-19 PANDEMIC Neat

@@FiboSai It is interesting looking at how the design philosophy for a series can change depending on the technology available and the people in charge. Weither it's a good or bad thing kinda boils down to everyone's opinion on it. For someone who has been a fan of pokemon since red and blue came out, some of my favorite pokemon are around gens 4 and 5, but I can totally understand how the newer designs don't sit well with some older fans though. As for you talking about color palettes, it's also why shinies for gen 6 pokemon and up are more unique. Back when they used sprites, they more or less just used the next color palette sets after the original colors. It's kinda why most of the older pokemon have greenish shiny colors. With the 3d models, they have free reign on the colors that they can use for the newer pokemon, even some older pokemon like charizard had a slight change in shiny colors.

I personally like how the colors schemes from each gen were retained in a way. It gives a sense of nostalgia. Like those pokemon feel like they're from another time and place. Gen 3 color schemes were my personal favorites. I love how blacks were grayish and greens, oranges, and yellows were apparent. I kinda wished they stayed with starmie's gen 3 coloring in the proceeding games.

Couldn't have said it better idk where people are getting digimon. For its biggest grossing franchise youd think they could afford to hire more employees to give us double the shitty average looking mons if they arent going to have art director ken sugimori actually direct anymore. Look at literally every psuedo legendary then look at dragapult. The concept is ok but the design personally looks like a fakemon...

@@brushogun2051 "shitty average looking mons" lol stfu

generalisation, yucky. theres: >talonflame/fletchinder >toxtricity >hydreigon >mega rayquaza (its technically a new design) >the swsh legendaries (i could care less about swsh so i don’t remember the names) >noivern not. all. pokemon. are. like. this

someone said it had more of the angry eyes dragon ball style xD

I agree with you but I truly believe it's due to nostalgia. I mean, many of us were children when we picked up the original games. We had the opportunity to actually discover Pokemon for the first time and form bonds with these designs. I remember seeing some stuff about Ruby and Sapphire in a magazine and thinking "This is not Pokemon. I hate this." Now gen 3 is one of the most cherished gens in the franchise. Most people didn't like gen 5 at first either.

@@asimhussain8716 Those starters are definitely the lamest. I also still am not a fan of gen 3 and am growing tired of most of gen 1 Pokemon getting more attention than others. Nostalgia should never be seen as something negative. People are allowed to feel nostalgic towards something, just as we are allowed to have differing opinions. Do you disagree?

@@asimhussain8716 I couldn't agree with you more

This is why the Cyndaquil line is still my all-time favorite starter, however I do very much enjoy all three Hoenn starters too :)

I'm a "genwonder." Coining this now to mean someone who simply loves the death out of gen 1, without the irrational/toxic implications of a "genwunner."

_"so I was CONVINCED that the term was "Gen Oner" as in only likes the first generation since it was more original and creative in their opinion."_ - Which is precisely what it means, wth are you talking about...

@@Serjo777 No I mean as in I only heard the term, I never saw it written down and I thought it's "Gen Oner", I never knew it's "Genwunner".

@@Mister_BIack It's just an alternative spelling to give it more of a "mocking" appearance I guess.

Gen 1's only amount of postgame was Cerulean Cave. Gen 2 we got an entire 2nd Region after becoming Champion. Hoenn we just got a couple of Legends we could catch, SS Tidal, & Battle Tower. Emerald transformed Battle Tower into Battle Frontier & gave us access to both the Desert Underpass & an area in Meteor Falls where we could battle Steven in addition to what RS did. FireRed & LeafGreen gave us access to 4 more Sevii Islands once we got the Ruby from that Cave in Mt Ember that unlocked with National Dex which you needed to be Champion with 60+ Pokemon Caught to receive. Then after getting the Sapphire back from Gideon you could trade with the Gen 3 games & access Cerulean Cave. It was Gen 2, FRLG, & Emerald that started the postgame content. Then Gen 4 was where we saw the peak of postgame content thanks to the Battle Resort, & Several Legends being exclusive to having the National Dex. Heatran was in the Battle Resort (which was just the Battle Tower/Frontier until you got National Dex), while Regigigas, Lunar Duo, Shaymin, & Arceus needed the National Dex to encounter. National Dex was also required for Giratina in Diamond & Pearl. Then of course there were the Gen2 Remakes in Gen4 which expanded upon the Gen 2 Postgame by having the ability to catch the Legendary Bird Trio, Mewtwo in Cerulean Cave, & Suicune was moved as well to Kanto. Then there were the Eon Duo, Embedded Tower, & getting Kanto & Hoenn Starters. Gen 5 was the last we really saw of postgame content although it wasn't quite as grand in scale as Gen 4 postgame. Starting in Gen 6 we just would get Gen 1, Ruby/Sapphire, & Gale of Darkness amount of Postgame as the new normal. Event Pokemon were the same way as postgame content with Crystal having Celebi, RS having Eon Ticket, FR/LG having Navel Rock & Birth Island, then Emerald having all 4 of the Gen 3 Event Areas including the Old Sea Map for Mew. Gen 5 was the last time we had an event that wasn't just you're given a Mythical Pokemon in the form of Zorua, Zoroark, & Victini, although Zorua & Zoroark events were awful with them requiring you to delete a special Celebi for Giovanni or a Shiny Legendary Beast from the Gen 4 games to access them. At least if you went to certain places with Keldeo, Meloetta, & Genesect stuff would happen. You want to know what's really bad? The fact that these days Mews are being extorted through some peripheral.

Remember how team plasma made us question our morals? Yeah, if we had something like that, it would be great.

Cajun Cuttlefish gen 5 story good, gen 6-8 story childish and bad

@@user-eu8jd2be9j gen 5 story was alright, but it was still childish in its handling.

What was wrong with the Sun & Moon Story? Team Skull were failures who were neglected by society. Lillie & Gladion were abused by their mother who became increasingly obsessed with Ultra Space. I fail to see how a story about abuse & neglect is childish. Now there was a lot of childish filler in Gen7, although if you can overlook the goofiness you'll find a good story. Just keep in mind that Lillie is the main protagonist rather than you as the player. We can probably agree that Gen 8's story was crap & an afterthought really. Kalos tried to be deep & dark in its story like the Unova games, although failed miserably. I think the problem was trying to make it a game for kids which made the story fall apart. The game would have needed to be Teen rather than E10+ & been willing to actually go through with exploring Team Flare.

Gen 2 split defense and special defense. In gen 1 the special stat was both offensive and defensive. The actual split of physical/special moves was in gen 4.

It’s a Dog Which is ironic because the SM anime has some of the darkest episodes.

It's Ash and Team Rocket that look stupid in the new style, the other characters look alright.

I mean Ash is 10. He looks a lot closer to 10 in the SM anime than he ever has, tbh.

Sylveon mismatches more because it has a completely different eye shape than the rest. Otherwise it's about the same as Vaporeon and Leafeon levels of complexity.

@@amandaslough125 yeah I realize that but it still just looks out of place to me, i really don't know why...

Sylveon really sticks out like a sore thumb among the eeeveelutions. Even Glaceon and somewhat Leafeon were simple designs and fit in among the rest

@@stevenmartinez2530 it does honestly, when it's by itself it's fine, but as soon as you put it next to the others it just looks out of place

I don't know, I feel like it's better designed than the other Eeveelutions. Especially the Gen 1 ones