German military top brass makes rookie mistake 

Canadian government also uses facsimile.

Heared the same. The WebEx application that they used is one specificly made for the Bundeswehr and to be used for Service related calls, which is at the same time the lowest category of Secrets. It´s embarrising but if you actually look at the details...extremly common.

we use WebEx daily. It has high encryption levels available. The government doesn’t have special encryption that isn’t available in general industry , it’s just mathematics. One connects to the “meeting” , which is encrypted and secure end to end. But the audio portion of the connection has several ways of getting connected. If the audio is done via a computers audio then that gets encrypted along with the rest if the video. But there is often a manual dial in phone number option to connect audio. If one uses that then the audio is going to that phone over the unencrypted phone network cell or land line. And can be monitored. I think they should have all had encrypted phones but this one general didn’t use it and may have dialed in on his normal phone or the hotel room phone

@@nonionbeezness maybe the company (aka the bundeswehr) should disable the phone option for meetings on their accounts if possible, seems kinda dumb to basically knock down security entirely)

It's still regular webex, but running on own servers. Not sure whether what was discussed was appropriate for this platform, but yeah, unencrypted phone call makes all of those security measures void.

Yes, the problem *is* WebEx. More specifically that it allows such unsecured connections to join into an otherwise trusted and secured network.

They used an old version of their communication software, which only allowed an insecure connection to the conference member, who was in Singapore at that time. The conference member visited an aircraft trade fair and Russia had spies in the network there, who listened to everything going in and out. According to our MoD, Russia stumbled upon the conversation by accident more or less. He also said, that it was unacceptable behaviour by the conference members involved and security measures will be reviewed and checked in all areas. So Russia did us a favor, by stealing useless information and "telling us" afterwards.

@@niyiu3547 OK, but the RUs don't do favours. That's the kind of thinking that caused the problem in the first place. The RUs got what they wanted. The call was made public to sow dissent in the NATO allies and put weak Scholz further under pressure. The fact that the high-ranking officers did not confirm among themselves that the were all on a secure line speaks volumes. I listened to the call, and the manner of the discussion did not exactly inspire confidence.

@@expatexpat6531 No, it wasn't do put Scholz under pressure. He is already under pressure from NATO and seen as nothing more than a problem for Germans and for NATO states. For Putin, Scholz is an ally more than anything. Russia tried to make us look bad and that they "would be everywhere in our systems", we wouldn't be trustworthy and according to the Russian "translation" of the conference, we would plan a direct attack on Russia, which is them trying to prove their propaganda point, that Russia is the one under attack. Russia didn't get what it wanted from that, because I don't see any changes in communication with Germany and its allies, our MoD is as transparent as he can be and the Russian side of this event is full of lies again, which are easy to prove, when you understand German and listen to the conference, our MoD also released.

Agreed. I listened to the whole thing twice and I can't find anything wrong with it. Other than the blatant disregard for cyber security, that I would not have expected on that level of rank. But it was very clear, that there is currently no plan for delivering Taurus to Ukraine and that they simply didn't want to be caught with their pants down (as in unprepared) should that political stance ever change. Which is their effing job. They need to plan ahead for every possible development, anything else would be irresponsible, considering that it takes months to 'make things happen' with these types of weapons. I mean, they didn't exactly seem opposed to the idea, I'll give that. But they weren't foaming at the mouth and wanting to start a coup, either.

The Greens were lying before the election.

I agree with most of this, however members of the Ministry of Defence have been in Ukraine guiding Ukrainian officials, and it has been alleged that members of the secret service were also fighting in Ukraine, some disguised as volunteers.

From the exerpts i heard on the radio i would say that they agreed that it was not possible without german involment in the short term.

@@Quasimodo-mq8tw not true. Two examples from the top of my head: Prof. Masala of the Bundeswehr Uni and the MBDA CEO (the Taurus manufacturer - he just made a comment today) have completely contradicted that. They clearly said that no German troops would be required. They should know.

@@RandoStaRR​​⁠I’m sorry, but that is clear Russian propaganda and not true in any shape or form.

Is there political fallout? AfD and Wagenknecht are going full blast Moscow propaganda as anyways and so do their echo chambers. The reasonable part of Germany is: 🤷‍♀let's check security of our software and carry on.

On premise servers in on the intranet. Encrypted VPN access from the internet is possible - all encryption is useless though if you dial-in for the audio via an unencrypted line. Regulations state this explicitl, use is ok for basic confidentiality, i.e. "not for public use" - unless someone dials in for audio, then it is "releasable to public" only

We've also had the Americans spy on us a lot over the years ... sometimes with the help of the BND, even.

Everybody has the KGB in the house, what do you mean ? Do spies ever declare to leave forever ?

You mean: NorthStreamVPN?

Exactly. No matter how much we lick Putin's boots - that will not protect us in the least. Appeasement does not work with that type of person.

And at the very least propaganda-wise, I'd say he's already at war with the West to some degree...

You they are able to change the algorithm until christmas ?

If there ever was 😂

Sensible content maybe recorded as well but not published.

Deutschland hat ja nichtmal genug Geld für Verkehrsschilder zur Autobahnhöchstgeschwindigkeitsbegrenzung. Behauptet der Bundesverkehrsminister.

Verstehe ich das recht? Du sagst, Scholz hat nicht den Mumm, den Leuten, die Frieden wollen, zu erklären, daß sie Leute sind, die aufgrund ihrer Geschichte Frieden wollen? Diese Ausdrucksweise ist, vorsichtig gesagt, sehr schwer verständlich.

For most countries, including Germany, all of the communication tech stack, both hardware and software, is imported, and has to be presumed compromised. If something needs to stay confidential, it can't be electronic. This includes the mere presence of electronics in the vicinity. If you're in a video conference, the assumption has to be that all governments, and many corporations know what was discussed in real time.

well, for starters: the officer in Singapore should have used the facilities of the German embassy. this should be basic protocol for many decades.

​@@diametheuslambdaWas soll man sagen: die haben sich benommen, als gäbe es noch kein Telefax.

Ukraine used to be called "the Ukraine" in English. But Ukraine says it is not appropriate anymore.

I noticed that as well and it hurt my ears but then I thought it might be the German influencing his English or since his youth it was more likely said that way. I have only known Ukraine and never with an article preceding it.

But exactly that is the comment, on just any profession. Nurses, Doctors, Teacher, Bus Drivers, Train Drivers, name what you want. You hear exactly the same words, the result is industries are cannibalizing each other. There are simply no people to hire available. Other industries at least have the chance to hire abroad.

Germany spends more than enough money on the military (even if it is below that damn 2% target) but it gets woefully bad results for it. something is very rotten in that system. France manages to have fine equipment, enough personnel and to top it all of - an expensive aircraft carrier and nuclear weapons to maintain - with roughly the same amount of money.

@@embreis2257 Below 2% is not enough, get a clue.

@@holger_p People will go where they arte paid and respected well, that is not the case with the German military.

@@LMyrski it is enough for Germany. look at the actual figure in billion euros and compare it to France or the UK. it's enough.

Yeap. And that's the big issue. Russia can say now "hey, you should be outside of this according to current international agreements and you are not"

@@onemorejulian Which international agreement? Has UK (or Germany or any other NATO-country) signed any agreement that they would stay out of a souvereign country which is attacked by Russia?

@@rittersportfan Agreement is the wrong word, but international law have rules whether you're a participant in a war or not. If you are, you're fair game for the opposing side.

@@hannesmayer3716 Actually one of the most important rules in the international law is the ban of wars of aggression. So Russias attack on Ukraine as a war of aggerssion is illegal by international law, Ukraine's self defense on the other hand is allowed by international law. Other countries are also allowed to support Ukraine's self defense with weapons or soldiers as much as they need. A Russian attack at any state that supports Ukraine would be just as illegal as the attack at Ukraine in the first place. In short: Russia is breaking the law with every soldier and every bullet on Ukrainian ground, while Ukraine and all theri supporters are not breaking the law while defending against this war of aggression.

@@rittersportfan Doesn't matter. The right to wage war (ius ad bellum) and the rights you have in a war (ius in bello) are two different things. Even if Russia broke the first one, that doesn't mean that the second one is no longer in place.

no, but it knows where it isn't

@@JimnyVR5 And by subtracting where it is with where it isn't or where it isn't with where it is - which ever is greater - it obtains a difference or deviation.

They guess so.

Besser wäre es...

everybody knows all documents are shared via Warthunder forums

@@feedbackzaloop hahahahah

It's for the propaganda: Russia has a chance to portray Germans as warmongering imbeciles. Remember that Russian propaganda has been trying to push the narrative that it's NATO's belligerent stance that started the war.

The Ukrainian government requested English-speaking countries drop the definite article, but it's not a law of some kind. However, I only used it once in this video, and it was a slip of the tongue.

@@rewboss fair point 👐🏼

sadly, none so far

I mean...they did sound remarkably relaxed and unworried. Kinda like people planning a drill or an operation on a computer game. Very serious and detailed, as far as the technical details were concerned. But there was not a single word lost about whether or not they agreed or disagreed with the idea or possible consequences. I don't know. Since they were very clearly only talking about a hypothetical scenario, I feel the reaction to this conversation is way overblown anyways. But it's certainly within the realm of the possible, that it was meant as a kind of message or threat.

@@raraavis7782 The threat aspect may have been a thing there. I guess many in our military are frustrated by the underdog tones coming from chancellor Scholz. I can't help but think that if you want to encourage a bully to the max, you do as Scholz does. There may be the reasoning in this. Such a leak _would_ make sense there. Its viral nature helped it to find its way right where you'd want to have it. High ranking Bundeswehr officers did use such means before. Usually when they wanted to get rid of defence ministers they felt of as entirely unfit for the job.

@@zweispurmopped Wouldn't it be ironic, if Putin releasing the recording to the public, would ultimately lead to Taurus being delivered to Ukraine? It just all fits together so beautifully. Macrons unexpected little pep talk, Scholz blunder in response, now this...maybe this is slow and carefully executed 'escalation'. So by the time we get 'more involved', everyone has already had their respective temper tantrums and we will all just accept this new reality without starting WW3 over it. Should be an interesting summer 😆

Nobody is planning on using the German military,

You are wrong about the meaning in a offensive manner. It unconstituional for germany to start a war. How to defend yourself and your allies without aiming at the opponent would be absurd.

That used to be the case but NATO demands and the constant whining by the US and others that Germany wasn’t doing enough and that stance has been refactored and I believe judicially modified. They were deployed and fired in anger in the 1990’s in Kosovo as part of that operation.

@@nonionbeezness I was in Kosovo with the German Army. Tell me how that had anything to do with starting a war. It ended a genocide. I have seen the dead.

@@MrSpirit99you are misinterpreting what I wrote. I’ve not written anything about “war”.

Which is the normal way to refer to the Ukraine in English, the word means "border province"

​@Reichsritter Formerly. Using "the Ukraine" legitimises Russia's propaganda that Ukraine could never have been a sovereign nation because it's "just an area of land". The correct and respectful way of referring to Ukraine is by using "Ukraine" without the "the".

@@TwoTailedFox666 You must be confused about the Ukraine, legitimised by Western Propaganda

I thought the same thing

No, quite some think it was a false flag op

Possibility is not Probability. For that, you have to assume that they either egomaniacally have full control over the consequences or are completely oblivious to the possible consequences and how much this can escalate. What is more, in what way should it be convincing? If you are already considered an attacker, do you go all the way? Will you not shy away from it all the more? So far, no one has shown a willingness to let the war escalate further for good reason.

@@rosaecrux Hi, my point was that the military wanted to supply, but their government are worried, because Russia may escalate, if they find out, so they have found out, the escalation is now out of the government's hands, so maybe they will take the military advice. Not the most likely explanation, but an explanation, that does not involve military incompetence.

@@slartibartfass5729 I could believe that too.

I don't think the russian economy is likely to collapse anytime soon.

@@kentknightofcaelin4537 It has been impacted. And if enforcement of the sanctions in full would cripple their production. The problem is that there are Western Countries (Hungary for example) that are not following the sanctions but are not being punished for doing so. There are also other countries who claim to support Ukraine but who let their companies continue to do business in Russia (Japan, South Korea, India, as well as a number of UK, German, French and Italian companies).

Perhaps you should look at their plans for the economy first. If you still want to vote for them after that: fair enough...

More likely YT.

RU-vid is HARD on a censoring trip since mid to late 2023. Any comments with words that _could_ be used as swearwords or in a "discriminatory" fashion (with the AI censoring conveniently ignoring _or_ twisting the context the word was used in) will have the comments deleted automagically (page refresh 5 mins later and it's gone), or shadowbanned (it shows up for you to make you think it was posted, but no one else sees it nor can they react/respond to it). The channel owner is entirely left in the dark (often not even aware this is happening), let alone be able to do anything about it. Welcome to our new AI overlords. Hope you've learnt to be non-offensive, otherwise we'll make sure you are :) 🤮 edit: wouldn't even surprise me if this comment doesn't end up going through because it's explaining and passive(ish) aggressively criticising these cancerous practices

heh... I posted a fairly long reply ranting about how YT is on a censoring trip since mid 2023 based on keywords in the post, interpreted by AI (cause we all know how it NEVER makes mistakes right /s) and guess what happened? it got auto-deleted (refreshing the page several hours later and it's gone). what an absolute clownshow this platform has become

What has Scholz to do with this? Schroeder was the Russian trojan horse. AND WEIDEL will be a much bigger Russian Trojan horse.

Easy: The leak shows that Scholz is using strawman arguments to deny delivering Taurus. The man is talking about decisive action and is sitting on his hands.@@Canleaf08

@@Canleaf08 you can see Weidel as chancellor one day? requires her party to be the strongest in parliament. if that happens, we can kiss goodbye the Europe we know now

bruh sholz da goat

He's. British.

And his German family side are they British too !!!@@justarandomgothamite5466

@@justarandomgothamite5466 That doesn't make it impossible, but.

?

@@daisycarbonell Oswald Mosley.