German Super-Heavy Flakpanzers? | Fake Tank Friday 

If you enjoyed this video remember to leave a like and subscribe. I'd also like to hear what topics you want to see covered in the future. Be sure to watch all the Fake Tank Friday videos first though in case I already covered your pick: ru-vid.com/group/PLW8JzDrsS3_s9zIKiMV0U0ND425_fxaYC

I love how all late-war german designs are always drawn in the middle of a destroyed city lol

I love hypothetical ww2 designs they are so impractical and yet so cool lookin

i love how they look, i think they could be used in a rts or a game with fictional tanks. It could be some sort of super weapon with a cool mechanic like killing planes, havy tanks, rockets etc. Would be cool

These super Heavy tanks always look cool but are so violently impractical especially in a wartime scenario where battle lines change and shift. Their large size and slow speeds also make them very very tempting targets for Air support and artillery. I’ve had to explain this to a friend who is a Maus fanboy

Something else that's overlooked, flakpanzers were meant to counteract(or at least deter) Allied tactical aircraft at low altitude. Which means that 88mm or 128mm weaponry would've been unwieldy and slow to follow and reload because they're meant to tackle high-flying strategic bombers. So in that way they would have performed worse than their much smaller 20mm, 30mm, and 37mm armed counterparts.

I'd definitely love to hear the story of 7.5cm Jagdsherman. Who came up with that? 😂 It's so ridiculous 😂

Holy shit I never knew that other Maus hulls and turrets had been made but hadn’t been put together with the rest of the components. I always thought only the 2 running prototypes were only made

Hey Cone loving the content, for fake tank friday I would love to see an in depth look of the Leman Russ Battle tank from Warhammer 40k for a fake tank Friday, considering in a universe which is completley over the top a comparably sane ww2 esque tank (at least the hull) holding its own in the grim darkness of the far future I think in would be an intersting episode.

2:04 That looks like it belongs in something like Red Alert, seriously the picture even looks like a Unit Icon. 2:07 You've all heard of Landships but I present to you the Land Patrol Boat. Honestly the second and third design shown in this video seem kind of cool and nice... Bit stupid though, the twin 128's especially look ridiculous. On the one hand they're fake tanks but on the other I genuinely like the designs.

I can see the maus AND e100 haveing aa guns mounted to the top of the turret but not become the aa it self

As a scale modeler I would totally build some of these tanks, the are impractical and wacky but look cool, and as long as you aren’t claiming it was real there isn’t much harm that can be done

with the Dual 88 Maus. the model company that did it for an alternate reality series

next episode about fake tanks i would like to suggest about any kind of double barrel tanks such as the apocalypse and mammoth or any other,and why this kind of concept "never" really Made to real life?

I can't wait for Gaijin to add that to WarThunder and make a special event vehicle with a ridiculous BR lol

I love modelcollect 😂

I don't think you read every comments, but I want you to know that I really enjoy your content. Instructive and entertainment ! Thanks for your work!

The concept of using the raw hulls from standard superheavies is a very unlikely scenario in many ways but I could see the hull design being converted into a waffentager like hull concept where it has significantly reduced armour and just be made to house large weapons to make it cheap enough to use practically as you don't need that much armour other than the roof armour and therefore not need so many speciallised components to handle the weight in an AA and a tank hunter/SPG.

That Doppel Flakvierling auf Maus at 2:08 defies logic - "Mmmm yes, let's take this hull with 220mm of frontal armour and protect the gun crews with 6mm thick shields, but only from the front! Oooh, and put the driver in a sheet metal box ABOVE the armour!"...

As an avid What-if model maker and a history nerd, I loved this video, however I don't think it's fair to blame model manufacturers for end user disinclination towards researching their subject material. Love your vids, cone! Can't wait for the next one!

2:06 that tank remembered me of another design I saw , (I don't know if it was a real or just a "fan made") , named Flakpanther which fired the same type of missile( the Rheintochter R1) and of all of the designs I've seen so far that was the most possible to be made by the germans , and I've seen a lot of people say that some things could have won the war for the axis , but this time I have to say that not really the vehicle but more the missile , the anti-air Rheintochter could have had a major impact on the war and have the allies on the run.

Paper panzer models are awesome. You can build and paint them however you want and rivet counters can't say anything about your work

The Krokodile model i found in Google was interesting and i love the design.

It's also worth noting that the weapon system, I.e 88 to 120mm guns where strategic air defence weapon systems. Intended for use against strategic bombers.

Can you take a look at tanks with APS ? Still waiting for the Favorite tanks from Twitter video 😂, don’t know why but it makes me excited /interested to see your take on the ideas from the community. Great video!!

I feel like people don't appreciate how heavy the single, and especially the twin 128mm AA gun+mounts are. To put it into perspective, the Flakzwilling 40/2 mount weighs 26 tonnes, whereas the destroyer-mounted 4.7" gun in the twin CP XIX mount weighted a little under 24 tonnes, which includes the gunshield, pedestal and extra reinforcement that a naval mount would have. To put such a heavy mount on a tank hull would be impractically heavy

Those fake tank super heavy models are cool though. I've thought of buying some myself. I've seen tank destroyers and AA based off the E-50 and E-75. Cool concepts that Wargaming will take advantage of eventually.

I always liked the flakpanzer Drache-kai. Take the Ratte, double the length, triple the width, quadruple the tracks, and add the unused turrets (1 per vehicle for a total of 3 vehicles), of the third Yamato class battleship (Shinano, converted to an aircraft carrier), utilizing only Type-3 starburst anti-aircraft shells. I only ran across a single reference back in the 90s of this. It was about the time the Ratte itself was starting to get out into the wider world. I realize that it was so fake as to be stupid -- still it sounded like fun. Lol

Guys wake up ConeOfArc just posted

The real reason the Germans never considered mounting Flak guns (particularly 8.8cm and larger) on heavy tanks was due to Flakpanzer doctrine. Flakpanzers were required to maintain a fast enough speed to keep pace with panzer regiments. As quoted by Oberst Thomale at the Panzer und Waffenkommision joint session discussing Flakpanzer design and doctrine (5/43): "A vehicle with a weight of about 30 metric tons and an engine powerful enough for 50-60 kph is needed in order to protect an advancing [panzer] regiment." Thus Tigers, King Tiger's and especially E100 or Maus were simply out of the question. In fact the joint session dictated specific tank chassis considered adequate for Flakpanzer requirement: "Leopard, Pzkpfw-IV, and Panther components are to be favored [in Flakpanzer designs]." With the joint session concluding: "Initially the Pzkpfw-IV chassis will be tried as a Flakpanzer. If this isn't adequate, the Panther chassis will be used." Furthermore heavy Flak guns (8.8cm or larger) were dropped in Flakpanzer designs after experiments with the Versuchsflakwagen 8.8cm Flak41 (PzSfl.IVc) since it was assessed that towed heavy Flak units would prove equally effective as self-propelled 8.8cm guns: "In January 1944 Reichsminister Speer ordered Krupp to cease development of 8.8cm PzSfl.IVc...The 8.8cm Flakpanzer was obsolete for escorting panzers because high altitude aircraft could be engaged by stationary [8.8cm] Flak guns...In addition control of a mobile battery wasn't possible because equipment had not been developed that could transmit firing directions by optical or radio signals between the command vehicle and flakwagen. Connecting cables would have caused too great a hindrance to mobility and tactical flexibility." - Jentz, L. Thomas, "Panzer Tracts No.12-1" Additionally, it was decided that smaller caliber Flak guns would satisfy the air defense requirements for panzer regiments at the joint conference mentioned above: "An option was held [that] Flakpanzer armed with 2cm Vierling, 3.7cm Drilling or Zwilling or 5.5cm Flak-Illing are needed to protect a [panzer] regiment." Field assessments late in the war determined that the 2cm Flak proved most effective against Allied fighter bombers - the greatest risk to panzer units. "In my opinion the problem of whether to use a 2cm or 3.7cm anti-aircraft guns has been decided completely in favor of the 2cm. The Jabo is the Mistvieh. He attacks at low heights. In every case always at an elevation where the 2cm is effective. Most Jabo kills are credited to the 2cm." - Major Petri, Flakpanzer assessment on the West Front, 30/01/45 So nowhere were heavy tanks, much less super heavy tanks even mentioned as a basis for German Flakpanzer design. These E-100 & Maus Flakpanzers are consequently entirely tank fantasies.

The biggest problem in super heavy AA tanks is how they are supposed to move their turret fast enough to keep up with an airplsne… (Also if u make an video about AA tanks on the panther chassi u should also take an look at the concept of an Panther hull with an kugelblitz turret which some people say actually existed as an field modification)

Coming from a scale modeller, the people who are really into it tend to be aware of the history, and we like doing some fake tanks cause they are interesting to paint (like 'what ifs'), I think these pictures then get circulated and people use them because there aren't any other photos of the vehicles (cause they didn't exist).

The infamous Waffenträger auf E100 👍

*Sees the twin barrel 8.8 Cm Maus* *Flashbacks to Red Alert, the song Hell March intensifies*

0:25 kinda looks like Body: E100 Turret: Kv5 Barrel: Maus

I don't really get why they can't just make up fun alt history designs and always have to pretend as if these things had any basis in reality.

Ouch @ 2:16 and the "right between the eyes" hit on the Whirbl's upper front plate.

Nice one. I particularly like the Valentine in the film sections going "ha ha harrrrrrrrrrrr" at the E100 hull.

this series of videoes kinda makes you wish some one made a warthunder like game but they add every single fake tank to the game with damage models and so on it would be pretty cool driving around in these fake tanks and seeing how well would they face againts each other

I use several gamertags, one of them is "Flakmaus dual 88mm" It's just the perfect combination of stupid, cool, and absurd.

I really should finish painting my E-100 SPAA model. Thanks for the reminder.

There would be no logic to mount a heavy AA gun on a front line tank, given the 128mm was designed to break up high altitude bomber formations over German cities. Front line German mobile formations needed protection from fast, low level “Jabos”, thus rapid fire 20mm and 37mm auto cannons were the tool of choice. A slow loading heavy flak gun (or guns) on a 100 ton tracked chassis would be a logistical nightmare and useless at its core function. It’s Uber-tank fan boy fiction. Thanks for calling it out.

Further to all your excellent arguments there's one other reason the first two designs never existed: the flak panzer existed to give the frontline troops mobile close AA support. The 8.8 and 12.8cm guns were near useless in this role and so do not needing mounting on a protected vehicle. Honestly that ridiculous Maus hull with two wibelwind turrets is the most useful design shown- using the huge hull space to mount moar dakka for fending off allied CAS. still useless compared to just having two wirbels but less dumb then trying to use anti-bomber weapons on a lawnmowing p-47

Honestly, that twin-flak E-100 thing at the very beginning would look great with a few sci-fi gribles. I like the smooth hull with the back platform. Maybe with a kind of rounded shield around the turret, open at the top…

Well there you have it folks. World of Tanks Common Test server is love with autocannons. And the Flakmaus is one of them.

I actually love making/seeing those obscure Kitbashes and Alt-History Vehicles and fitting background stories. The idea of a superheavy AA tank is just kind of intriguing. Of course they should be labled as such to prevent fake information from spreading.

I suppose you could make the case for these as an alternate history “What I’d Nazi Germany won/survived the war” scenario. Eventually, the Germans could have reached the same conclusion the US and Soviets did, ditching heavy and medium tanks for the MBT concept, rendering their heavy and super-heavy tanks redundant. At that point, recycling their hulls for other purposes might make some sense, but all the same objections about mobility and range would still apply.

Always a great day when Cone uploads

As someone who occasionally makes what-if tank models, I can guarantee these people are almost never doing it to misinform, they just don't think they need to clarify that they're making things up. Usually, either they don't know what they're saying is BS (because they've taken someone else's BS at face value) or they're assuming that what they're making up is so obviously false that people will know they're just adding some flavour text to their creations. It's unfortunate that some people are gullible enough to take their fantasy flavour text at face value. The companies making these sorts of kits, however, should know better than to do the same. One interesting creation I designed myself a little while ago was a Raketenjagdpanzer with the X-7 Rotkäppchen ATGM system, based on the Panzer 38D chassis. Building it took some heavy conversion work, but it was one of the most fun projects I've done, and I get why people love making these fake Wunderwäffen: it's just fun to be free of the need to research and check every detail.

Therapist: Flakmaus isnt real it cant hurt you Flakmaus:

0:54 literally the Waffenträger XD

my favorite fake tank is the jagsherman. its a kit bash sherman with a hull mounted german 75

The 128mm FLaK does have a (partially) enclosed turrer like the one depicted in WoT

I think the simpler way to disprove these is just to ask the question of why mount an exposed or barely armored turret to a heavily armored hull, sorta defeats the purpose of having that armor. The only exception would be the 88 dual cannon one but that just obviously makes no sense, I mean how is the crew supposed to aim them and why mount two side by side?

The problem is that the turret would weigh so much that traversing it fast enough to track even bombers would be very difficult.

I could see them taking off some armor, as they would just need a platform big enough to carry heavy aa weaponry. But the concept of having a heavily armored spaa is absurd, why have that much armor if you’re going to be facing planes and will be usually relegated to rear to mid line fighting?

I honestly don't see any issues with modellers making non historical models. They shouldn't be shat on because of that. The issue is with the people that try to learn history from just looking at a model. Let the modellers do whatever crazy things they wanna do.

The 88 looks like an adaptation of a naval mount

I knew there was 2 Maus tanks and one being fully functional but never saw any combat. But I didn't know there was ready to go shells of the the Maus ready to be completed

The Maus turret would be so slow and unwieldy it wouldn't be able to track with an Allied plane

3:29 what minifigs look like next to most lego tanks buddy pals

I'm surprised that none of Bismarck's stabilized twin 105 AA mounts have grown tracks yet...🤣🤣

Would have made more sense to convert PzIII hulls to a FlakPanzer configuration, rather than diverting super-heavy hulls for the purpose. Having the 88mm/ 128mm guns would have made sense if trying to knock down heavy bombers at high altitudes, but the main threat to Pz divisions would be low flying Jabos.

Gotta love seeing the fictions tanks in MWAS2

I just realized the Porsche Tiger of the Cursed by Design series is sitting there, destroyed. After all this time only now do I notice

Home animations: I'll just steal your video and turn it into a tank concept

Man, how would the turret traverse manage to track fast moving aircraft? I feel like they'd get a shot off, then struggle to readjust, due to the literal MAUS turret they're using.

This looks like the Armageddon Steel Legion in 40k would deploy it in battle

The 128mm desing looks cool tho ngl

The Sturer Emil had a 128mm gun but it Had a shorter barrel than what was on the E-100 hull by like half.

Thank u for ur time and effort teaching us about tanks and history and what's real and fake .Great work

There's an additional point where the whole "Heavy Flakpanzer" comes apart... WHY would somebody want to build it? The whole point of a Flakpanzer is to provide close AA cover against fighter-bombers or light to medium bombers - as such they have to be able to move with the vehicles they have to cover and need fast-moving turrets in order to track the air targets. Even the Sgt York was a failure because it was too slow to keep up with the tanks, so a Maus wouldn't make any sense at all. And turret traverse on these monsters was glacial as well... which would only have been ok if the AA guns were used for defense against high-flying heavy bombers like the guns in question were supposed to in the first place. But... strategic bombers rarely attack ground formations on the move (outside of War Thunder at least), so why waste resources on a mobile platform? And for rear area high value targets, towed guns set up around the target would have sufficed...

For those who might have noticed: several of the modelkit-boxarts shown were by the company Modelcollect... while there is nothing wrong with them realesasing as much as they can, their tendency to seemingly pursue every possible combination of their different sprues has resulted in some rather ridiculous "designs". That alone might be worthy a feature on this series @ConeOfArc. As said before, I do not have anything against companies releasing what-if subjects as I am building some of them myself and fully agree with the premise of "please label your fictional history" :)

We don't talk about that hellspawn.

A case of "what if" gets out of hand

Average War Thunder player: "How much Hp does it have💀"

Kinda feel like it would just be a flashing “bomb here” beacon

The maustomatic isn't real, it can't hurt you The maustomatic:

I would want a Grant/Lee with the BL-10 gun model

At 0:54 and 1:01 how the wtf e100 was SUPPOSED to look like

i know its fake but that E100 hull with twin 88's looks cool asf

Idea For a looooong-term Video (series?): how about making what-ifs about the Tanks of the command and conquer universe? Like how possible are they and how useful they would really be.

The amount of disinformation, mistranslation or just information we DON'T have from this era will always blow my mind. The World Wars were one of THE most recorded events and they weren't THAT long ago. You'd think we'd be able to hold onto records from less than a 100 years ago.

With how crazy German designs were back in WW2. I'm actually surprised we never got an "All in one" type deal. A tank with AP rounds able to pierce most armor of the time, a fast turret, good armor, and a high rate of fire gun to engage enemy aircraft. Seems like something that would've happened.

i created a fictional tank called the sherman m19 which had a 88mm cannon and a fire support variant with a 100mm cannon and an AA variant with twin 53mm AA guns.

就暢想之下E-100底盤下，能裝的自動裝填防空炮，頂多是單管的自動版88mm炮，雙管自動88炮，是連結構上都是不合理，哪怕只是幻想下的暢想設計。🤔🤔

As I told Cone earlier, the reason why this stuff doesn’t exist is the same reasons why there are no M26 based SPGs produced in WW2. (Ignoring the prototype) And why the M4 based M40/43 SPGs get produced.

"Why mount aa guns on a heavily armored type, makes no sense" yes I agree, but I could argue many of the decisions being made in late war Germany indeed satisfied the latter of that statement .

There seems to be an alternative history among armor modelers which is WWII '46 and WWII '48. They also are stating that the German military found a "crashed" UFO in Bavaria in 1936 and salvaged it for reverse engineering. Which is why (antigravity?) saucer shaped vehicles were trying to be built close to the Czech border in 1944. All this UFO theories combine into building German heavy tanks and aircraft artillery to be marked as '46.

I'm sure that I read that it was decided that it was more expedient to use existing towed guns and tractors rather than a fully-tracked tank with the same gun.

I audibly laughed out loud when I saw one of these models on display at the Tank Museum in Bovington! I just thought it was silly

One thing I still don't get: If the E series were meant to be standardized versions of panzers, why build the E-100 first? Surely something like the E-50 would be more beneficial to replacing front line tanks.

The E-100 AA is the one I think can be good

2:11 most sane late war German design

There is several pictures like these on pinterests, such as the sturmpanzer VIII maus with the 380mm rocket mortar, or the so called "Waffenträger E-100 15cm FlaK 60F"

The twin 88 E100 looks fucken boss

The Maus That Roared.

Ah, yes, a superheavy anti-air vehicle. In case enemy planes didn't already have enough reasons to bomb the this huge, lumbering target at the earliest opportunity.

A super heavy flak platform would actually be super effective... against a Star Destroyer and not much else

Next video on the Mareșal?