3 years in the future and I can say that most of this is spot on. However I think the most significant improvement to an analog long range setup is long lolly-pop antennas, both for the VTX and the receiver antennas on your goggles. Your head and the frame of the quad are the 2 biggest sources of interference. Mounting the camera at 3 points and not 2, is a biggy too. It only needs to waggle 1 degree and the picture's a zig zag mess. ELRS is hugely more affordable than TBS XF and works so well. With built in WiFi they are super simple however use 115200 Baud rate if you use a module.
Most goggles can actually take an external module with an adapter. Pretty sure it adds a bit of latency to the video feed but it's pretty nice that you can have cheap goggles with rapidfire and upgrade the goggles later and keep using the same module.
He is right you could go really long on 5.8 without a groundstation. Just made 20 km with perfect video. I think 30-45 km is no problem. Im using a 3w akk vtx a pagonda and a 16turn helical on a wildfire modul.
Hell I realized with a decent 5.8 setup I could go quite a ways on the ground with a car and massive obstructions in the way. It really is Harry Potter science sometimes. This is all great information though. I would say technically to cosign your statements here.. so long as you are in the air with what is more or less LOS you should technically be able to travel any distance in theoretical LOS on any kind of system that's 5.8g or below. What I've been stuck on is how people are achieving long range at ground level and through massive amounts of obstructions using 1.3g or even digital 5.8g. It's a whole new level of Harry Potter magic.
Thanks so much, as a new pilot this info. is tremendously helpful and will save me money in the long run, as you said you found most of this information out the hard way, and that usually also means the expensive way. I’ve made a list of all your recommendations. Thanks again.👍
Crossfire. Failsafes done. Surprisngly I had a lot of success with FlySky before I got a Taranis and eventually Crossfire. Crossfire is so simple - over the air updates of receivers. One thing to do is mount your RX antenna at the front of the quad - that way when you turn around to come home the rx antenna will in facing you. You'll start losing link quality (RSSI) on the way out, then you just turn around the the LQ should improve straight away. These days you get the diversity nano Crossfire RX and you can have one antenna at the front and one at the back. If you put them on arms you can do one on the left and one on the right. You can also do the same with some of the HD VTX's these days - some of them come with two antennas. If you want to do long range every system (i.e. control link and video) that has a transmitter or antenna needs to be top quality. True RC make some nice video antennas. And the tuned TX antennae for Crossfire is pretty good.
I appreciate this video. I saw some people were frustrated. But I liked that you laid out the parts that affect long range control and video and the best building blocks to get there.
After stupidly close frsky failsafes, I put crossfire in everything I have. Never had a failsafe since. My skyzone 03o goggles worked pretty well with the internal and you can add a module to them. But I went to dji. Way way better penetration with dji. Not sure how the hell that even works since it's also 5.8ghz.
Ordered a TBS Crossfire micro Tx V2 with a nano rec plus 3 TBS Immortal T antennas (one extended) 1 TBS Crossfire Nano diversity rx, TBS Unify Pro V3 5.8GHz, TBS Triumph Pro RHCP. If it dont work Im coming to your place and using your gear lol. All gear arrived and Im still smiling. Subbed. Now I have to put it all together but thats the best part.
Dude awesome!! Your going to LOVE your setup now! Your gonna have better reliability than a Toyota!! Just make sure you set everything up correctly! But it sounds like you got this!! Share some clips of long range with me, I’m working on a viewer spotlight episod soon!
@@KAREKINFPV Sounds good to me, Im going to setup another youtube channel just for my LR flights with TBS gear. Ill be flying quads and planes. Will send you a link to the page once I set it up. I have a lot of work to do including the mod for the QX7 for Crossfire but I now have everything I need to start and get in the air. Ive gone 5Km on my own builds with 2.4 gear but this is a game changer.
just ordered a tango2 prop. im graduating from an evo 1 to mountain surfing up in the great state of washington. so i got my evo and now to somthing like the 7 inch croc
you know not to bash your vidoe but this is why you should be required to have a ham radio license. when you have your ham radio license you should have the basics at how frequencies propagate on different bands and why people use 2.4 and 5.8 ghz frequencies. which frequencies does your country use and what the gentleman agreement is. i have been a licensed ham radio guy for about 5 years now, but you should know why team black sheep and other companies use these frequencies. Just admit you dont know. you most likely do not know that frequencies are proportionate to the size of the wave length. What frequencies propagate the best in certain temperatures. if your an expert in drones you should be an expert in frequency ranges and the distance they can travel. what frequencies penetrate the best and why. Maybe its time you take that test. its a 35 question test from a 400 pool of questions. if i can pass it you can pass it. And take ham radio classes it will help you understand to be a better pilot.
if you know how it works...any brand will be good in your hands...😊... one thing you need to know...all electronic things can break without our will even if they are very expensive...it's according to our luck
I have been flying my True-D for a while with really good results. Wanted to build out a ground station using my Pro58 with Achilles and was really surprised at how well it works still! Anyway, great video and right on with antennas. I have the AXII V2’s installed with an ORT 6 turn helical...it affords me clear video out to the range of my quads pack, about 5km. Long Range piloting really is a discipline that requires some thought going in to your setup for success.
good video, well thought out but I have to dispel a couple misconception that you had and that I also had. Firstly when you say that you have to get a certain video receiver to achieve proper long range this is mostly false. Yes higher end video receiving modules have alittle higher sensitivity (they will more easily pick up and decode a signal) this is not required for long range. Unless you're in a area with high mulpltipathing or flying through thick walls then you will get similar, if not the same, with a 40-50$ module. Note that those ones that are recommended cost around 80-150$. The second thing you FAIL to mention is adding a GPS to you module. You recommend all these expensive parts but not a 15-25$ GPS? or even proper lower pitch propellers, to the better flight time. (so simple) MORE EXPENSIVE(TOP END) DOESNT ALWAYS MEAN MORE RANGE (PERFORMANCE) This is a growing hobby, and alot of people are just now getting into it, why not recommend TESTED lowered end parts since not every one can afford upward of 1300$ for a complete build. At that point just but 2 DJI Mavics. You'll easily get 3.5Km that way. You sound quite ignorant in you way of explaining things. Your using your experience as a solo fpv pilot to direct viewer to a specific product without investigating other option, which the large fpv community recommend. Overall, You video is just too specific to one group of audience. those who are willing to buy the most expensive stuff thinking they will get better range. Not to mention your ignorance towards certain thing. Here's a video of how its actually done : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--9sUGHTH9N4.html
David Lewis it doesn’t sound like you have any experience using GPS, even the best pilots like NURK Fpv will tell you, you CAN NOT count on a $15 GPS recover to work on Betaflight. Do you know how many people have lost their kuad by simply testing the Betaflight GPS settings. Sure you can use iNav instead for “slightly” better GPS features, but even people like Bardwell can’t get it running correctly all the time. So what’s the point in even adding. Also this video wasn’t about “GPS” it was about video quality. As I stated several times in my video, “these are generalizations” some may have gotten better or worse results using cheaper gear. Lastly, FPv Is and will always be an expensive hobby. it sounds like you’re doing well with your cheap gear, which is great! As long as you’re having fun.
If your having problems with your analog gear, it’s probably because you have some cheap parts that were not configured correctly. Or defective old used parts.
@@KAREKINFPV Your Welcome. You are absolutely correct though. Even in Betaflight they tell you that GPS Recuse is a BETA feature. but it is good to have, especially when all else fails. Its literally the only thing that will bring your quad back even after lets say you somehow fail safe on a crossfire (unlikely) or you lose video transmission ( more likely). Not to mention the OSD home arrow it provides. The benefits of all those thing out weigh the small likelihood that it wont work properly. Epically with betaflight 4.2, GPS figures are alot more reliable. As shown here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GE6K9HiTO90.html Flight time as far as battery usage, props pitch and motor Kv is just as important as any gear you recommend. lets me ask you this, what's the point of having all of this gear when you can't even go 1km before it's time to turn back because you're about to use up all of your battery capacity. Yes I have had bad and good experience with more affordable gear. However I did upgrade to a few things you listed way before seeing this video and I have also had bad and good experiences with those aswell. Point being, again MORE EXPENSIVE DOESNT MEAN HIGHER PROFORMANCE. Fpv doesnt have to be expensive for you to have a good time or go long range contrary to what you stated in your reply. You suggesting to the community to invest 400-600$ to achieve long range is an example of someone who has only tried whatever is trending. when in reality you can achieve long range with 250$ or less worth of upgrades. Like I said good video, there are just a few things that are not completely Factual. Especially when you have new comer to the hobby who are apart of your audience who will leave thinking that the only way they can achieve they're desired range without the equipment on your recommendation. Happy Flying though.
Awesom man! I started with very basic stuff but it’s hard to find the basic direction to go in sometimes. I’m glad it helped you! Give me a follow on Instagram if your ok there. @karekin_Fpv
This video is pretty outdated, now with express lrs you can have even more range and less latency, 2 times smaller recievers with a total price half of a crossfire cost.
Tell me you know what your talking about without telling me you know what your talking about. 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻 although I don’t mind the convenance of crossfire for the extra few dollars. And latency isn’t a big issue when you use something like the DJI vista for long range.
Good info here. But Dipoles can be used for long range, you just have to have linear antennas on your goggles too. There aren't as many options for linear patch antennas on the market, and most people think the regular dipole "rubber ducky" antenna is worthless, but I have gotten some of the best reception flying one of those and a nice linear patch. Try it some time!
My $115 Hubsan h501s will go 1.5 miles out of the box without mods and I still have video reception. But my $500 Quad takes all kinds of mods to do that. Going to find a INAV video after watching this video. I love my R9M 2019 but I need a RTH where it lands at my feet if needed. Then I guess I will need DJI Digital LR for video.
Wait what the Fuck. Skyzone has 3rd party module support since Sky02. I am flying Dji digital system now but before that, I was all about skyzone. With the Rapidfire Module. and when I race it all skyzone.
Great vid mate I also gave the qx7 Did you do the mod to get the module to work or has that limitation been overcome And do you recommend the mini over the full size TBS module ??
I wasn't able to get the crossfire settings to work on the QX7 and never tried the mod. I would just plug it into the computer and use TBS agent to change all the settings. It works great! I love the new mini v2 it goes up to 1w but i've gone 2 miles on 500mw with no problems.
Mr Karekin! I learnt so much from just this one video! Any chance you'd do the same guide for dji fpv set up? Im using dji transmitter with dji v1 axii antennas... however i do need a vtx antenna guide on my drone. Not sure what to go for. Thank you!
And please don't say thing without trying like the skyzone 03O build in modual is like a true D X so it's very good and you don't need fatshark l fly dom v2 with rapidfire but skyzone are better maybe not the rang but like 10%/15% less
just ordered tango 2 pro ver3 board, with nano diversity, i guess now i have to retire my 40 $ box diversity which i never used, been using anlogue on my DJI goggles RE which came with mavic Pro2, trying to build a 10 mile range 7 inch, long road ahead but i need good googles with good module, thanks for advice
Brian Reip bro that would be killer! Also a 1.6ghz Digital FPV system combo. I know TBS could make a killer digital system. With like 7-15ms latency. That freq is just enough separation to work with crossfire and still keep the crossfires rang greater than video and give amazing penetration.
Very helpful video. Thanks man! Tho I'm a bit sad to hear I'm not gonna be able to get a descent setup for less than $800. Guess I'll stick to the simulators a while longer.
Goggle wise, unfortunately no. It’s an expensive hobby. While others have had various results with less expensive goggles. To get the best results you’ll want one of these. Check your local classifieds, Craigslist. Facebook. You may be able to find a nice used pair of goggles.
Karekin, thanks so much for the video! I'm really interested in long range FPV ground and air. That's the reason I recently decided to get into the hobby. I have no RC background and I have found it difficult to determine what system will achieve max range. If I look around the internet at a particular month, I see there is no consensus on the best setup. I see people posting range videos with many different setups. Are there resources that you recommend like forums, or RU-vidrs, etc.? Does the controller matter when it comes to range? I've been reading through Long Range Hooligans on Facebook, various RU-vid videos, and AMA website. I just bought the RadioMaster TX12.
Yes. I love DJI. It's a fantastic option for many people. Out of the box there is nothing that can compare to it penetration wise. Long range is possible with DJI, however breakup is mush different than analog, you have to be very careful when reaching the outer limits of the system as the video will just freeze and typically doesn't come back. Many like Nurk FPV have taken the system 2 miles. It's really sketch, but he's done it. 2Km is no problem though. I would be nervous to go any further than 3km. Also please keep in mind that increasing the output power over 700mw doesn't seem to improve the range based on a few tests I've seen.
Okay to summarize it a as leymann - We need VTX + spec. antenna for the VTX on the Quad, then we need a Module that should go in the Goggles to receive the video, then we need Goggle Antennas to amp the module and see a nice pic. Then the other way around we need another module that connects to the radio, preferably Corssfire from TBS, and a receiver to receive the signal from the radio, that goes on the Quad? Does the receiver on the Quad need an antenna? Same question for the Radio module? And one final question? Is there on the word a chance to connect this video receiving module with any sort of monitor or even better - an ipad instead of goggles? Hate these goggles sorry but I get a headache...
If you have an antenna plugged into the crossfire module on your radio then do you need to use the second antenna (where you have the dipole one attached)?
@@arkansasaviation5299 without a GoPro and 1300kv motors easy 20+ min. With a GoPro 8 around 12-18 on 1700kv motors. I can cruise at like 60 with 1700kv motors.
Hi There, just found your channel. Quick question, do both antennas (on drone and goggles) need to be the same length? I have a hglrc LR antenna on the drone but a small foxeer lollipop v3 on the goggles. Same DB. Thanks . New Sub 🤙🏻
Great question! No they don’t, you can use different lengths. The further away from your head the receiving antenna is though the better. Also they both must have the same polarization RHCP or LHCP
1600 feet is actually pretty bad for 5.8 without a groundstation. With my 7" kwads and a 5ah 4s I make 8km out and back easily and with my zohd dart 20km+ with no problem.
Your making it sound that TBS is plug and play , it is not ,you have to open up your Taranis and do soldering mods to it and newbies that are getting into the hobby that don't own soldering irons and don't have the skill to do it are getting the impression that you just slide in the module and bind , it is not like that, they risk blowing the taranis. a true plug and play module is the Frsky R9 system , however if taranis mod for tbs system is done correctly it is more reliable.
Blind what are you talking about. That’s false, 100%. It works perfect on the QX7 right out of the box. You have to use TBS agent to configure it on the computer. But it works fine. I’ve taken mine 3km.
@@KAREKINFPV Hello, thanks for recommending these Parts!! it's really helpful to us beginners because there's so many to choose from. I'm quite interested with that 3km build that you mentioned. can you give us the parts list? Thanks ^_^
xTrinity sure! I’ll try and create a separate video for that, but email me at cksagherian@gmail.com and I’ll send you the parts list so you don’t have to wait for my video! 😉
dude thanks for this video so much. I'm struggling trying to learn everything there is with FPV's. I have the fat shark dominator v3 goggles and am buying the rapid fire module tonight! I was about to buy your antenna setup but you said the spironet LZR is much further signal?? could you explain that for me? it looks like its only $29 and I really want to invest in the BEST. Please help and thanks for the educational video!
Awesome man, I’m glad I could help! With the rapidfire, just be sure to install the secondary power cable in the V3’s. The only issue with the spironet setup is that it’s very directional. It’s made for long flights directly in front if you. The setup on mine is a great midrange and all around you setup.
Screw TBS crossfire on a Quadcopter. Got with TBS Tracer! Yes, it's 2Ghz its 25Km distance, and its only 3ms latency. for Quads with limited battery range anyway. Tracer is much better than Crossfire.
I would really like to know everything technical about drones, but it's soooo frustrating that no one explains literally EVERYTHING about drones and how every component works.
True, at the time of this video, DJI needed some desperate firmware updates. But there is a point where analog can go further than DJI. By a mile or two in the right conditions.
Do you have a tango 2? I won’t fly a tango 2 because I don’t think the power output is correct. I could never get one that didn’t have issues. I always use the full sized radio and micro TX.
@@elbedouirayen7938 it could really be your vtx or camera too. AKK and RDQ, vtx are pretty much crap. The best ones are TBS unify pro 32 HV, the Rush Tank, rush tank solo. Also be sure to turn off any diversity syncing. Sometimes that can mess with the reception if the system doesn’t like the camera you’re using.
@@elbedouirayen7938 also always try to use the least amount of antenna connections as possible. So if you’re going from MMCC to SMA then get an antenna that’s an MMCX connector only.
Your version of long range is much different than 3 to mile is very easy and all I use for video is 5.8 900 fry sky but I fly plane quads have have nothing but electrical garbage all around them that is where you get so much interference and most good video is all in the wiring not spending a fortune like this guy wants you to. My buddy spent a fortune with all that stuff he is selling and I usually go farther than him.
@@KAREKINFPV too expensive. Im from Malaysia and it cost around RM1,500. Imagine that in $1,500. I understand that FPV hobby is expensive. Im just trying to get a cheap mid range signals. I have issues with my FPV signals. My setup are: - mobula 7 - flysky i6 - FuriBee VR01 The issue are: - signal lost within 3-5 meters
@@alexruka I understand price is a lot. This issue sounds like you have a bad antenna on either your VTX or goggles.Also I don’t think the mobula has a very high output power. 25 - 200mw. But 3-5 meters is very short. Insure you are on the correct channel also.
@@KAREKINFPV does a minor scratch on the VTX antenna can cause issue too? Yes sir 3-5m im not lying its too short. Only 2 channel i can found. The others distorted. And also, thanks for the fast reply. Really appreciate that. You got my sub🙏
@@alexruka the vtx may be bad. I would purchase a new vtx first with a new antenna. Then test it and make sure you’re on the correct channel. If it’s still not working then it’s your goggles or the goggles antennas.
4:16 Does TBS Crossfire system includes Tango 2 pro remote controller? I'm still learning, doesnt have quads yet but if I buy, I want long range and I'm eyeing for Tango 2 pro. Is it good enough?
Its the other way around friend. The tango includes the tbs crossfire, so yes. However its not a full crossfire system. You'll only get 250mw instead of the 2000mw output power of the solo crossfire module. If your gonna be flying in area with lots of trees or inference then you might be better off investing in a solo module and a frsky transmitter. Its gonna cost you about the same. The solo module is sold out at alot of places but you can find them here for a good price and fast shipping. Thats where I got mine 5/5 stars. www.amainhobbies.com/team-blacksheep-crossfire-lite-transmitter-module-tbs-crossfire-lite/p850719 Happy flying.
@@davidlewis7155 I mean, does it include Tango 2 on the system he is talking about? I do know that Tango 2 has a limit of 500mW (for now) thats why im asking IF Tango 2 is part of his recommendation (crossfire system) because i really like the small form factor. What do you think?
I understand. I wouldn't say it's a recommendation but its nice to have. Its designed specifically for fpv drones. And it shows in the form factor, like you said. I have one but I have huge hands so its almost feel like a ps4 controller which is fine but I just like how the frsky trannis feels alittle better. It's definitely up to the user to decide though. But I will say this, if you don't have overgrown hands like myself, you'll definitely appreciate the design of the tango 2 and if you're not doing rediclous long range then the power limitations won't be an issue either. Its definitely a good investment.
@@davidlewis7155 Thanks for that. I'm all in for long range so I might need to buy something that can accommodate the crossfire modules and use it's full power. TBS demo'd the tango 2 up to 51km but I think they used a "separate ground equipment" that boost signals w/c isn't really ideal for a lot of pilots
@@bendixtrinity you're welcome. Usually when they test their equipment its under close to ideal circumstances. So in reality you might even end up with 25% (+/-) less range. So going for the full module to make up for that lost isn't a bad idea. That being said, you're gonna run out of video signal range way before any failsafe issues. I recommend Akk race ranger (international version 1600mw) and a pair of Spironet LRZ Array and for extreme long range the clearview 2.0 racer. Gotten up to 9km this way with just the akk race ranger ,with crystal clear video. Only reason I didn't get more was because of my battery. And as far as antennas go, you'll be way happier with a cloverleaf or a pagoda with a longer stem. Happy flying mate.
Most people don’t know how to build a helical antenna. And range is a function of your RF environment as much as it is your equipment. It’s easier to say, “buy a good antenna” than, “here try and build this crazy looking thing”, I fly DJI now though and fly 4km almost daily. I should probably make an update for this video.
@@KAREKINFPV I know, just joking dude. Great video and nice tips. Agree with what you're saying, there are many different ways to achieve good results. The gear you recommend here is quite robust and should definitely get the job done.
Remember guys, tbs crossfire has some special wavelength that he doesn't know of and you,ve got to just use it and he cant explain why? Lol. Wouldn't happen to be 900Mhz low frequency by any chance?...
Tell me you don’t go long range without telling me you don’t go long range. 😂😂 I’m kidding but access is garbage for real long range. If you get more than 3/4 of a mile ur LUCKY!!
Anyone watching this video now. TBS Crossfire is no longer the best protocol, ELRS(ExspressLRS) is a much better overall protocol now. TBS Crossfire is a little but simpler to set up but its not quite as good.
ELRS is a joke. There are few situations where crossfire isnt still the gold standard in reliable long range. I know many people who cannot break even 1 mile with ELRS 2.4 no matter what bardwell says, and ELRS 915 you might as well use crossfire. Crossfire is good for 5. I should make an updated video though. Which would also include ELES.
Recap... Skyzone's allow you to put a module in them, like the 04X which comes with a built in module that gives RF and Fusion a run for their money, and to bring it back even a little further the Skyzone 02C or X have module adapters which work just fine... Your info is somewhat true but your only thinking of your bottom line as appose to those that are less fortunate, so to say that if you don't have the budget to splurge on the premium hardware you aren't going to have a good FPV experience is just very judgemental and naive and bias on your part. I run Crossfire everything on my rigs but I would never say that if you don't have my set up you won't have a good flight, it's nonsense. enjoy your channel.
basically you have a lot of money as you are advising every expensive option. Should not people get a gold plated frame too? easier to see in the grass. Lol. You need a good rth setup to fly your device back if you out distance your tx and rx gear.
I’ve had this discussion with people before. A nice AKK 1w+ VTX is like $45, you can buy a pair of dom V3 used for like $140 and a true d module for $40. It’s hardly the most expensive option. You get what you pay for.
If it wasn’t for the telemetry issue I might agree. With the highest power RX you can maybe get telemetry out to 1 mile. With crossfire it’s at least 3.5-4
Sorry man but I don’t trust saving $5 to chance having a betaFPV module crap out snd losing a $900 rig. Also you can’t get telemetry back to the radio past 1 mile ish. Crossfire will go 3+ before losing telemetry. I know bardwell is pushing it hard but there are some disadvantages that aren’t worth switching yet.
@@KAREKINFPV by your answer I feel that you are the kind of person who thinks spending more means more performance look up wezly wartys testing tracer is shit ghost and elrs is the future naminmo and happymodel are killing it with quality
@@CHIRAG_FPV That isn't my speculation. I spent 2 hours on the ELRS discord discussing it in "general" with the admins. You're welcome to go back and find my conversation.
