Mixed bag, really. Always budget conscious, so I have SM57's on snare and toms, matched AKG pencil-condensers on the overheads, Shure 42B (or is it 52B) on kick, and another AKG large-diaphragm condenser for room/ambiance. Lots of processing involved after the drums are comped and edited together, but I get pretty good results from that.
I buy some mics from pawn shops. My OH are a pair of Shure ksm 137, Sennheiser 421 on toms, 57 top and bottom snare, MA 200 for room or pair of Blue Yeti pros for stereo room mics. Sennheiser e 902 on kickband I made a subkick from a subwoofer I got on my local buy nothing group. Been meaning to try my cheap MXR ribbons as overheads instead of the Shure mics. I use an old EV lavalier mic or the EV 635 in the wurst position and squash the schnitzel ;-) out of it. My first kick mic was a D112 but I could never get it to sound right, but now I look back and realize I just didn't know how to use it. Great to use it as one of 2 or 3 mics on the kick for that attack/knock and get the thump from the outside mic.
Great Video. 22:40 section is incredibly important in drum recording. Composition is so crucial. Nice video Warren. "Dak Dak Dak!!! Rat Tet Tet Tet Tet!"
Love how only using a little RComp on the snare and it sounded fantastic. That's a great drummer with well tuned drums and good mic placement. Love this so much!
A lot of drummers and engineers should listen to this conversation, apparently simple but very instructive, what a good taste Matt on drums and thank you very much Mr. Warren Huart !!!!
This is such good info here! At the moment I'm mixing a live musical theatre production, and I've gone super simple on the drums, due to a slight lack of inputs. just kick (Telefunken M82) snare (Beyer M201), and a spaced pair of overheads (SE VR1) and it sounds awesome, cause the drummer has his kit tuned well, and is playing nice and balanced
Very much enjoyed this. I’m 60 and have been recording since the early 80s and the NWoBHM. A lot of what you say resonates with me. Close mics, multi mics, etc. These days I’m aiming for the Simon Kirke sound and simpler smaller mics. Mainly Glyn Johns. and a more ambient kit.
I tend to go for LDC overheads, (AKG) Shure SM57 snare and AKG D112 on kick into a Focusrite Clarett +8Pre and Logic Pro X. Having a lot of fun searching for that allusive sound.
yea Im with you... I use a modified Glyn Johns too, 5 mics... 1 pzm for kick and tom attack, 1 snare, HH and 1 dynamic by the ride. just one LDC in omni for overhead. Close micing everything just takes up too much of the soundscape with overheads in stereo. Wilco did some of this lately but Ive used it for decades, punkm prog country... works everywhere.
Yes it’s so much easier, and neater, to have fewer mics. I do also use mono overhead sometimes. The other thing I have done, and wished I had done years ago, was use a small 4 pc kit, in smaller sizes; 20 x 14 kick, 12 x 8 Tom and 14 x 14 floor Tom. I used to drag a 10 piece kit to gigs and studios.
I've only recorded twice in my entire life, but what I will takeaway from this is just how I can improve my overall playing; the echoes John Cougar's post.
I don’t know if you have seen Mike Johnston? He says exactly the same. Only uses 2 mics and gets an unbelievable sound, because he has trained himself to be consistent in his playing. At 60 I don’t think I am there by a long way, but it is fun to keep trying.
Matt rocks! Love his content and what he shares about drumming and life! Excellent drummer too. Great taste in what he brings to a song. I too started out recording it just one mic. I put it in the crotch/wurst location not knowing anything (at 15 years old) to record my kit. Set the mic on top of my kick drum resting on a towel. It was a plastic AKG with an on/off switch. I
If the cymbals aren't 'opening up' except with more aggressive hitting, then consider Sabian AAX, which were designed to address that issue with an 'Auto Focus' design concept: tap them or bash them, the optimum response is 'there'; there is no need to build up to it. They are the 'modern bright' range. For darker, more toneful responses, try HHX, the 'modern dark' ones. For a killer ride, check the Raw Bell Dry Ride in HH or HHX (AA and AAX might be too bright). It has a killer unlathed bell and strokes across the bow are clearly defined. The Paiste 2002 likely works for you because it is the least musical (i.e., less tone, more controlled) of the lot. This is because it is made with B8 bronze - 8% tin/92% copper versus Zildjian and Sabian cymbals (except budget lines) which are B20 bronze - 20% tin/80% copper. Because tin is the hardening factor and the music-adding element, the more there is (i.e., B20) the more durable the cymbal and the greater the extremes of the pitch range, which means more of the sort of bright, metallic sounds you don't appear to be so keen on. Conversely, the 2002, because it lacks tonal breadth, its output is more focused and penetrating, which makes its response fast, bright and cutting. That makes it great for rock. And because the 2002's B8 bronze is copper dominant, it has the potential to discolour (turn green or black), so those cymbals are always coated with a layer of protective lacquer. That coating further tightens up the response. (Note: When cleaning such cymbals never use abrasives as they will remove the lacquer. Just wash them in the kitchen sink with warm water, dishwashing liquid and a nylon finger nail brush, then stand on edge to dry.) Paiste 602 series are of B20. I have yet to meet a sound tech on live gigs who has heard of Glyn Johns or knows anything about cymbals other than turn them up or turn them down. You might want to consider doing a feature on cymbals, focusing on B8 and B20, including uni-rolled and the traditional multi-rolled production processes; profiles (higher profile = higher pitch = more cutting); bell size (bigger bell = louder); thickness/weight (thicker = more stroke/cut, less wash; thinner = less stroke/cut, more wash); lathing; and hammering (automatic hammering = consistent response across cymbals; hand hammering = irregularities that increase tonal 'colour' and add 'personality' = why Zildjian K and Sabian HH are popular with discerning players including jazzers). Sabian HHX combines traditional hand hammering and hydraulic drop hammering to create 'tone projection', a dark cymbal that can project through louder music thanks to a higher profile and hammering variations). Too much info? Sorry. The basic gist is bright or dark, loud or quiet, cutting or blending.... I use 10" hats (with a 6" splash inside for 'agitation'), my ride is 18", crashes are 16". They are punchy but seldom too loud because I 'mix' myself by playing dynamically. You extol that concept but might want to do a clip on drum dynamics including the value of accents, when to use the bell versus the edge, the groove-enhancing effect one creates by going back to the hi-hat or ride at the end of a fill instead of crashing (listen to Robbie McIntosh of the Average White Band's 'White Album' w/'Pick Up The Pieces'. Cheers.
I have a small tracking space in my basement, and my room has been treated so as to be relatively neutral. There’s a little bit of reflection but it’s very controlled sounding. I track drums in the same space I do most vocals (I don’t like the iso booth sound or lack thereof). One of the greatest tricks I’ve ever figured out is to stick a blumlein pair of ribbons at the top of the stairs with the door closed. The top end roll off of the ribbons means the cymbals aren’t obnoxious, using ribbons also gives me the ability to aggressively eq without much issue. And the sub and low frequencies are well represented. I discovered this while walking past the door while a drummer warmed up and thought “hmm, maybe I should put a mic there.” 😂 it instantly gives this big, big room sound that really completes the (otherwise dry) drums. I lucked out and it’s very easy to have the room be very present in the mix without stepping all over everything else. I recently went to a famous studio to record our band, and while it was amazing, their spaces were far from neutral, meaning I had less flexibility in the final sound of the recording than I do when tracking at my place. We set up drums in the medium room, and put up several sets of ambient mics, including in their large room. I adore their sound and many amazing records have been made there, but I have found myself working a little harder at mix time. The large room for example, has such a long reverb time that I’ve ended up mixing the rooms lower than I would otherwise. Otherwise it ends up really stepping on other things, particularly since our band has dense, heavy guitars and bass. Given the choice I’d rather have their space for sure, but I couldn’t deny that I definitely have some advantages in my studio. I suspect I’m far from alone. That’s one of the cool things about having a studio; it’s a lab for all of us to explore ways of creating sounds within the limits of our spaces. I’ve done a lot to my studio, even built a serious control room upstairs, but the tracking space is still a glorified basement. I almost feel apologetic to clients for my humble tracking space, but they keep booking so something must be working. Track on my recording comrades!!!! Favorite mics: Kick Re320 inside, fender champ as subkick Snare: Beyer M201 top, Mojave MA301Fet snare bottom Toms: ATM450 top and bottom Overheads: Soyuz 013Fet or M-Audio sputniks in figure 8 Rooms close: no hype LRM-V Rooms (stairs): modded Apex 205s
I'm not a drummer. I had absolutely no intention of watching this video. I only came here for the free samples. But I stayed and watched this fascinating insight into the complexities of drumming right through to the end. Excellent mind opening tutorial. Thanks. [But this new advanced knowledge now leaves me even more insecure about how to effectively use drum samples in demos ???...]
The thought of setting my drums up in order to aid mic separation, never really occurred to me. From now on I'll pay more attention and take a closer look at the set ups of the guys who's sounds I love.
I would love to see something like this for Midi drums. How to make them sound more like live recordings or how to make them blend well with live recorded instruments.
I used a 22" 2002 for years. I call it the Jeff Porcaro sound. Ala James Newton Howard and Friends. The bell was a bit small and hard to get an even strike on for me. I have a 20" K that I love now. I like using API pres on the drums and Royer 122s on the overheads. It sounds dark with my K customs but with a little Comp and a touch of high EQ lift it is super present and detailed without being harsh or clangy. I'm trying the Neumann KMS 150 that I saw on a different drum video of yours on snare but usually like a B&K 4011 with a 57 on top. I do often use the Primeacoustic guards on mics as I like my cymbals close to the toms. I also occasionally get sloppy and hit the mics so the guards are nice for that, especially when others play my kit. I have 421s on toms and I usually record with 16 mics total but I also love just overheads and a kick mic. When I record the whole band at once I usually use 10 mics. It's a 1960s Ludwig 6-piece kit with an extra snare.
Hi Warren, would you consider doing a video on how to get a great drum sound using something like EZ Drummer only, and no real drummer. I find EZ Drummer sounds good, but no where near the same as your videos of live drummers. A video showing how to get EZ Drummer to sound more natural (I know you have showed little tricks before in other videos) would be very interesting and helpful. Thanks for your time.
Great video - like what Matt said, listen to the way it sounds not the way it looks - great point...I have to remember that....as a drummer engineer, I need to work on that..Thanks for the great content once again...
Warren I would like to see you trying the late Al Schmitt drum micing tech and also true out the Audio-Technica mic like the ATM350D (Pro 35), ATM450, AE2500, AE2300, and 4047MP
I always found it funny that people are surprised I never mic hats or rides, and I do punk, hard rock, and metal. But if you have a good drummer, good mics, and proper placement, Hat and Ride mics are not needed. Often overheads, room, kick, and snare are all you really need.
Nice. I am about to record a 4-mic set-up, but I am going in the complete opposite direction in that I'll be using all dynamic mic's. I've done it before with good results.
I record in my room with 4 or 5 mics... This sets the benchmark for me so thank you thank you thank you! One thing though, the kick on the downloaded files get a bit crunchy on their own. Not sure if that was intended but I just wanted to point that out.
Warren do you remember the studio tour with Simon Phillips? Did you notice the height difference between hi-hat and snare? I quess you put him in the category of a guy with big muscles then 😅
@@ChristophManuelJansen You hit the nail in the head there, OH players (like myself) have the hats very low (mine is on a level with the snare), in the end is all about dynamics!
@@andywitch666 My point was that a low hi-hat setup can be recorded with good results, it's not a sign of a drummer who has a lack of recording experience (or intimidating big muscles). So many great OH players out there like Billy Cobham, Will Kennedy, Gene Hoglan, Carter Beuford etc all going low hi-hat. I also believe Vinnie's hi-hat placement comes from his own playing preferences rather then being drilled by engineers 🤔. Engineers should adapt to the muscician/instrument in most cases, not vice versa. Great video nevertheless ❤
Hi Erik, in Britain we rarely used a Hi Hat mic! The snare mic also was the Hi Hat mic, a little addition from the overheads was enough! If you're fine with playing super balanced and can get that snap and attach from your snare it won't be an issue!
What if we record drums in 2 takes. First take with kick, snare & hihat and ride. Then, change mics and put them on the toms and then record same song, only toms and crashes. Would that work?
I thought this video would be how to record great drums when you don’t have a drummer in your home studio. What software, which pads or what’s recommended to make drum tracks ? Ect.
Great insight video! Is the kick drum mic as far from the snare as the overheads? Are the overheads equal distance from the snare? I’m always thinking bout phase…
Warren!!!!!!! You need to have this conversation more but with every instrument plz!!!!!! Acoustic, Lead guitar, keyboard, Vocalists! That would be some juicy stuff!
I think that every drummer should have record something with Glyn Johns technique once in a lieftime, at least. Just to realize that it takes more to a drummer than beating the crap out of it and beeing ultrafast. And its a good way to start recording drums, too. Less takes, less hustle in my opinion. No fancy eq here or tons of effects and fight with bleedings on 12+ tracks while mixing. Try to tame these 4 tracks first, then you can try a few more.
With such a minimalist setup and minimalist playing, its pretty easy to handle any technical challenge there is. I have been searching without any luck about a home based double bass, big setup recording technique video on youtube, which presents its unique challenges. Imagine a setup with two bass drum, 6 toms including floors, a dozen cymbals...Pair it with a progressive drummer who plays with a broad dynamic range.... and you want to close mic each drums... now thats a big challenge to record properly.... !
Not trying to be funny, that necklace he's wearing is REALLY loud (not in a fashion sense) I would love to know if you captured that in the recording. I have been frustrated by 'fingers on acoustic body', would hate to have the equivalent in the drum track. Thanks for a great vid! 😂
Another great video Warren. Matt seems like a very thoughtful, smart guy. He's a great drummer and he understands the drummers role. It would be fun to work with him....and you!
I like music people talking about music...though I may be too far into my producer journey, cause I wondered what frequency the rattle of Matt's chains is and if I can EQ it out
