Recently in an interview, Anthony Mackie stated that part of the issue is that African American Actors aren't offered the same lead role privileges in the UK. As a Brit, all I could say to myself was 'Of course not... Black British Actors aren't even offered lead roles in the UK without a constant battle, why do you think they left?'
i also feel like to acquire fame in general sense (such as music, acting, and other creative industries), many people feel inclined to relocate to America because it’s “the big world stage.” This is in general - NOT EVEN TO DENOUNCE HOW MUCH HARDER IT IS FOR POCs. I think this is exactly why many actors/actresses and artists want to make it big in the US because it opens soooo many doors. i feel like it’s easier for Black creatives in America to be recognised than their British black counterparts. it’s sometimes like without the means to travel to the US for opportunities that you can’t really achieve the global reach of “fame” that many that do live in America can achieve.
@@timitwoshoes Even with all of the serious issues in the states, for non-Americans to see it as the land of opportunity just IMAGINE what people are dealing with in other parts of the world like Europe.
@@TownofTawiah oh my gosh exactly. the scarcity of other black people in the industry that are from lesser known Europe countries pisses me off. hopefully with more light on the topic, the conversation can evolve and actually improve the industries lacking in representation.
I find it kind of weird how people get mad that Black British people are taking roles away from Black Americans, but then they are perfectly fine with Black Americans playing African (Nigerian, Ghanian, etc.) roles. On one hand, I think the historical figures like Harriet Tubman should go to Americans, because it's really weird if it didn't, but I see no reason to be upset if it is in a modern setting. To exapnd, I feel like some of it boils down to "Black Brits don't experience racism like Americans do" which is obviously unture and erases the Black Brit experience. Like some people, both Europeans and Americans, really do believe that racism is only an issue in America.
And usually people don’t question the many white British actors who play white American roles. So this argument always confused me. Like what’s the difference? When I saw the point the Americans made (about experiences) it made a lot more sense but I don’t think Americans really understand the British experience at all. After tv series Behind Her Eyes popularised I saw some African Americans making odd assumptions about black, brits based off of the black female main character. A lot which sounded ridiculous. The black British experience isn’t understood that well clearly.
I think people will think Americans have it worst because they're usually mostly talked about on the media. Everywhere you go, it's all about the United States, which kinda erases other Black people from other countries experiences.
Well said. I know from Erol Flynn to Charlie Chaplin expats have made Hollywood. I think the autobiographical pics though are always weird when they cast a Brit, I know they did that for Abraham Lincoln played by Daniel Day Lewis. But there is definitely a unique pain distinct to the Americas that other black people do not have an intimate understanding of. But definitely fictional roles should always be open season.
@Powerful Oprah Then you live a peaceful life 🥺😭 the constant diaspora war on Twitter , Black Americans vs Black Brits/Africans , drives me so crazy and made me delete my account as a whole .
My only issue, is when a good performance isn't presented. That, and when the actor disrespects Black Americans, and then turns around and continuously play historical Black American figures. *cough, Cynthia Erivo, cough*
@@enosger our “strength” is how we are able to fight for every damn thing we have including representation. Leave us to our business and go about your own.
@@larissalaflore7202 it's a hard thing to work around as if you race swap roles (I don't mind this to an extent) it doesn't really work 100% as you either have to pretend that there was no race issues in the time period or include (imagine because they are often fictional pieces) the race issues the character would face which ultimately changes the famous work it is based on. People have to remember that the majority of the Black British and Asian British community started after the second World War which means that you have few roles for the for ethnic minority actors for periods prior to this. Add in the fact that the British film industry has been declining for the last 50 years (due in part to Hollywood domination) and there are less films to start with.
@@nathanthom8176 The British film industry is not declining. There are huge studios in the UK, and many American films are shot there. British TV series are all over Americsn television. The problem is that there has not been enough effort from Black Brit actors to produce their own work. You need more than one Michaela Coel.
As a black brit I have two thoughts on this. I can't help empathise with African Americans on this one. They come from a society where the majority has constantly stolen and taken from them. They are within their right to want to see themselves in their stories and get defensive. I get their frustration even if to us it seems a bit over the top. My beef is that in the UK we don't push more of our own stories. I understand why there would be socio economic reasons as to why that it but I want us to let the kidulthood industrial complex go and tell a variety of stories. How many more top boys do we need? (I'm not coming for it it's just we've seen that format over and over again for the past 15 years). Attack the block was such a monumental thing because it was relatable but FUN to watch. Now a UK classic. There was a time we had don't jealous me and diff stuff was being released but funding into the arts stopped and so did the variety of stories. I hope these people who made it big in Hollywood would be producers and provide funding for different stories that the next gen are hoping to tell. Maybe instead of having to go over the the US to do a film like Selma, we can have a film about the Bristol bus boycotts. That's my hope.
@Kyle P.V I get what you're saying but I was talking about exploring the black British identity specifically since its new and very complex for the reason you've stated. We are from the colonised, born and raised on the colonisers land. There are a lot of unique stories and perspectives that can be told from that lived experience in itself. Hybridisation and "glocalised" cultures are formed all the time (although literature always points to the "McDonaldosation" of culture) and I want to see what we can show of ours being in the unique position that we are in. I'd rather see that than black people dressed up in old Europe like Bridgeton. Yester years of Britain has been exported out time and time again, its rinsed. I'm no longer interested in what white people were doing in the 1800s or to be honest, today. I want to see what my mother or grandmother went through here or make something fun and new like attack the block, chewing gum etc. A romeo and Juliet esque story about with african and Caribbean people after the Windrush wave in leeds. A comedy about a young black man from Peckham having to navigate working in the Square Mile full of oxbridge people. A rocky-esque movie about the sound clashes that people use to have on the 80s set in Birmingham. We have so much unique premise as black Brits that could create something fun.
I don't think its true that Black Brits don't push more of our own stories. The industry barely give us space outside of the gang/drugs/inner city narrative. It took Michaela Coel years just to get I May Destroy You on air. Trust me, people have been writing, directing etc but small productions on YT will only get you so far. If the UK market isn't designed to tell our stories what can we do?
@Kyle P.V America is not a country of immigrants, that is a racist lie you were told that erases the heritage of indigenous and formerly enslaved Africans
Britain is usually funded by the public arts like BBC so they can produce amazing talent but not the budget. I read an article somewhere with Steve McQueen where he was being asked about telling an "American" story with 12 Years a Slave and he said something along the lines of being British with Jamaican roots in slavery.
I think part of the issue is what seems to be a lack of respect for Black Americans and their culture. Historical figures are a part of Black American culture and are typically viewed as more than a role. When you have Cynthia Erivo mocking AAVE and portraying Aretha Franklin who speaks almost exclusive in AAVE you have a problem.
@@williamphillips3035 this point made so much sense it was ignored. Most of the comments speaking negative on FBA she liked or responded to the comment.
African Americans play Africans or Carribbeans all the time with horrible accents at time’s but when we play African Americans it’s a problem Coming to America 2 needed more Africans with their natural accents.Not people who cannot be bothered do their research and play a character properly
@@crystalriley9671 even those were sketchy. there was no consistency to the accents in Wakanda or Zamunda, even people in the same tribe were giving different types of African accents. Some gave Central African, others gave a lot of East, most gave a version of South African accents, it was a little sketchy. But yh they’re fictional so anything’s possible lol.
LOL THOSE ARE FAKE CHARACTERS. THAT WOULDN'T EXIST EXCEPT THAT EDDIE MURPHY CREATED THEM. COMING TO AMERICA ISN'T ABOUT AN ICONIC AFRO AMERICAN THAT ACTUALLY EXISTED. HUGE DIFFERENCE!! I CAN'T HAVE ISSUES WITH FAKE CHARACTERS. ITS THE BRITS PLAYING THE REAL PEOPLE LIKE ARETHA, AND OTHER ICONS.. THEY GET PRECEDENCE OVER AMERICANS BECAUSE HERE IN AMERICA THEY ARE IMPRESSED AND CONSIDER IT PRESTIGIOUS AND REAL ACTING IF SOMEONE COMES IN WITH A BRITISH ACCENT AND THEY GET MORE RESPECT. THAT'S WHY EVEN WHITE AMERICAN ICONS ARE PLAYED BY BRITISH ACTORS AS WELL.
i dont care when black brits play african american characters, but for historical figures it’s different. like imagine barely getting any positives roles in media, and when there finally is one, a story that’s extremely important to your history and identity, you don’t even have the opportunity to tell the story.
Exactly. Like when they played nelson mandela. And a marcus garvey movie is in production and the role is going to an african american and not a jamaican. You don't hear jamaicans crying that their national hero is being played by a non jamaican
I think that Jodie Turner-Smith's answer was a very nuanced and well-constructed take. At this point, different parts of the diaspora have played each other so it's pretty hypocritical and reductive to then turn around and have a problem with Black British actors playing Black American roles. As long as an actor does their research, is respectful of whichever culture the character was a part of and gives their best performance, I don't think there should be a problem.
In the last 5 years the number of Black British actors who have played in American t.v. shows and movies has surpassed all the black Americans that have every played a caribbean or African or Black Brit. The issue is not that a Black British just simply being cast it's to the point where they are not considering black americans for roles in prominent films playing black americans most of you still mentioning movies that black americans played in damn near 10 year or more. It wasnt like every South African film or tv show starred a black American.
@A. Max it is not tribalism, it's citizenship, it's culture. We are not the same just because we are black. Actually our blackness is the least important thing about us. If you tell me you are black, that means nothingbto me expect for the obvious. But if you say I'm African American, Jamaican, Ghanaian, Haitian, Senegalese, if I only have a sense of geography and some basic info, I may know you in more depth by just saying which culture you are from. I may know your language, j music, food, religion etc. I may have a historical perspective if you are Tutsi or Hutu. So yes because we are black we are not the same. Just like a white French is not a white Englishmen.
@@navytanutrof1823 but the thing is we’re the only community that does this involving casting. in other communities, if you can do an accent or speak a language you’re good. and we can’t act like movies like black panther or coming to america aren’t examples of BAs using other elements of other cultures to produce films. and at times, it feels caricatured.
This is why I subscribed to you. As a non black person, I have requested black commentary channels a video about if it's okay for Black Brits to play Black Americans, you deliver it first, with such quality! I agree with your own take, basically with the same principle for me as Indonesian. In Indonesia, "National Heroes" is an actual, official term, those historical figures who played huge part in protecting the country from colonizers came from different cultures (in Indonesia) but they are utterly respected by all of Indonesians regardless of our culture. So yeah, I would presume that many Indonesians wouldn't mind if another South East Asian play regular Indonesian (just like Singaporeans don't mind Henry Golding, a Malay-Brit man in Crazy Rich Asians), but I would be a bit irked if non-Indonesians play our national heroes. That said, I wish Hollywood would let Africans play African roles tho, just to open doors for African actors to shine. Anyway, another awesome video from you, keep going!
Thank you so much! I always love your take on my videos so thank you for subscribing :) Also, I thought your take on Asian roles was interesting, I'd love to make a video on Asian leads soon, defo something I'm looking forward to. based on the approach that many Americans take on the topic of black Brits, by their own argument there should be more African actors in Hollywood to play all of the African roles, I agree.
@@TownofTawiah that means a lot coming from you! Also like to add, since you're a black Brit, I hope a black American commentary channel makes a similar video on this, as I would love to hear from their perspective. Yes please on the Asian lead video! I pray for this channel to blow up just like As Told By Kenya, Khadijah Mbowe, For Harriet, and many others because your videos exude quality, periodt.
Im a first-generation American with West Indian parents, and as someone who grew up watching Black film and TV during the golden era '90s, it's surprising to me how the bulk of major, high-profile Black roles do appear to be going to Brits in the past decade. For African-Americans who've fought for representation in Hollywood, I can imagine that stings. And I say this as a fan of many of these actors (Daniel K. (love him), Lupita and so on. We have to ask why the casting agents seem to be tilting the scales so much. I just want to see young Black actors born and raised here have great opportunities, too.
You need to check some history. These current African American actors stand on the shoulders Cicely Tyson, Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte and many others of Caribbean ancestry. Without those Titans there would have been no so called golden era in the 90’s.
@@eshowoman I adore all of those legends. And I'm a professional journalist and student of history (of film, art, the diaspora). I still think as I commented above that there can and should be space for talented Black actors born Stateside in to land these prestige roles in Hollywood films.
@@eshowoman Every Black person in THESE United States of American stand on the shoulders of generational AAs. Humble yourself. But if we’re speaking of film/ television, pay homage to Hattie McDaniel, Ethel Waters, Louise Beavers, Thelma (Butterfly) McQueen, and many others who were Foundational Black Americans. It would serve you well to “check some history.”
sounds like the argument on accent privilege is the fault of casting directors rather than actors on either side. this was super insightful, great video!
I dont think british actors playing black characters is wrong at all. But portraying an actual historical afircan American is disrespectful, just like when morgan freeman played mandela.
There are Black people in South Africa with money. Finance your own Mandela movie and cast it to your liking. You can't expect Hollywood to make the African movie of your dreams.
How tf is it disrespectful? By that logic the Actors should also be related to the historical figure. How does them being from the same country make a difference? You might aswell have Brad Brit play Muhammed Ali since he's American right? It's about who can do the most accurate portrayal. Now stfu.
There is a lot tension between Black Americans and Black British people on social media especially on Twitter and Clubhouse. A lot of Black British people never met Black Americans and vice versa in person. I don't understand why there is beef between these two groups.
I would love to figure it out too....it’s pointless and petty to me. I’m over pathos racial crap. Ugh. Yes we have issues that need to be address but is the one thing I could care less about. All of these black British of actors/actresses did so amazing I don’t even pay attention
Really that’s interesting! I have been to Europe plenty of times and have spent extensive time in Britain and I was always treated great by other Black people. I never had any issues! In fact it was a Black Brit of Jamaican descent who helped me my first time at Heathrow get to the underground and learn how to pay for the tickets.
Imani Gordon this is the same logic white americans use when telling black people to go back to their own country btw. Whats the point of fighting with other black people for scraps when the white man still holds the majority of roles to choose from by farr. Its very basic.
Having a "failed accent" has everything to do with terrible acting, not being African American. Let's start there. If somebody is a terrible actor they're just not doing their job properly.
Lena Waithe loves Black trauma drama. Queen and Slim was trash. And naturally she's going to go along with the idea of Black Brits in American roles - she's in a relationship with the biggest offender.
Simba Hunter imo queen and slim was amazing and I know many others who loved the film. I’m not sure of the reason that you didnt like it but I just want to note that black trauma doesnt equal trash. I understand why we’re tired of seeing black people in those roles but that doesnt mean black trauma films are now automatically trash. Thats how the film industry always is. Certain types of films trend and then over saturate the media because people want money and follow the trends. Then we move on to a new trend.
@@buxflee7636 If you liked Queen and Slim fine. I thought it made no sense, a classic example of what Roger Ebert called "the idiot plot" - the movie would be over in ten minutes if everybody in it didn't act like an idiot. Nice poster, though.
I really enjoyed this video! Speaking from the US, I think a lot of Black americans aren't aware of the lack of opportunities for Black actors in the UK. We'd all benefit from learning more about Black experiences that are outside our immediate vicinity.
We are aware. However, we are also aware that Black Brits are in a great position to create opportunities and work to change their industry at home like BAs do here. Steve McQueen is on the right track by putting out Small Axe, and Michaela Coel (A Queen!) creating her own opportunities in Britain. We want to see Black British stories. Idris is taking the hint by trying to do more stuff at home with Black British talent. (with the exception of Concrete Cowboy and the other Black American cowboy film he's doing) The issue is white supremacy. When BAs play non BA characters they are Hollywood productions the majority of the time, when they are not, it is the star power of the BA actor that gives it financing. Be mad at white Hollywood execs. Make your sh@t diaspora, BAs want to see it. Personally, in fiction roles, I don't care who plays in it. But real people? I prefer people from that lineage to play it or have the main roles go to the best from that culture for that nuance and deep-rooted understanding. I totally understand BA actors being a little salty nowadays when it took so long to train, fight for and build the Black film opportunities here, only to be passed over by the diaspora in major roles. Cynthia Erivo is a whole other problematic convo, lol, but we can all agree that everyone Black wants to see Black people win. Also, we need to stop with the false and erroneous myth that British actors are better trained than BA actors. Don't let BA actors start pulling out credentials to make y'all look foolish out here.
Which is even more of a reason for black Brits to fight in their country to produce movies of historical black Brits. If they do not educate the public no one will ever know the great accomplishments done by black British people. How many Martin Luther King movies do we need? How many Aretha Franklin movies do we need? Why are they continuously doing movies on the same black American people that everyone knows about already?
I don't think Anthony Mackie or Samuel Jackson have ever said "no black british" should ever play an American. They said Black British people are being selected for the top tier roles that they already know will win awards whenever you play in a biopic pic that is almost always going to get an award same thing for slave movies, Civil RIghts Movies or First Black person to do this or that (Hidden Figures) type of movies. Antony Mackie also toouched on the idea that Black British people are just better than black Americans at playing black Americans which is absurd since many are Africans and do not grow up being raised as seeing yourselves as a race. Many of the people in the film industry are Nigerian that's why there is a huge uptick in British actos typically of Nigerian ancestry. A lot of black people from Britain do not see race in the same way you guys are African and caribbeans before black. That is a huge difference.
Any conflict in the black community where your conclusion and solution is “but we’re all black” doesn’t actually solve anything and simply ignores all the points brought up by the disenfranchised groups within the black community. The homophobia arguments go this way as do the conversations about misogynoir. People will say “look we are all black at the end of the day” as a way to ignore the issues faced by those groups caused by our own people. Yes we are all black and we as black people also play a role in the subjugation of our own. We saw lighter skinned women do it to darker women and it eventually just led to them being replaced with biracial women. Keep on with the crabs in a bucket mentality instead of doing what’s right and you will be the next replaced once Hollywood finds they prefer French blacks over the outdated Uk blacks who now want too much money for their roles.
Meanwhile Black Americans have played people from all over the world and weve had to sit through them butchering all the accents. Lets face it, Black British actors do their homework
Not all black people wanted to Africans. Those were the only roles of the few available back then. And we are in America where there are more people born here than actual Africans. And black people here have a huge education and income disparity which is why it’s harder for us to get the early training to be skilled at really anything at all. The fact any of us ends up being as successful as many of us end up is truly because of hard work and beating the odds. Black brits don’t seem to ever get that because as you said you have better education and y’all tend to like to rub that in black Americans faces as if that doesn’t express the very issues we are talking about. Black brits have privilege over black Americans in this country. If we just allow them to take our roles they will take them all because the white execs hate ADOS more than anything. Yes even more than black brits. No the hate is not equal.
@@vangoghsotherear4114 first of all as a BLACK British though we are from the UK which is more diverse ( coming from a Londoner) doesn't mean we don't face racism. We have no privilege what so ever over you when it's comes to stuff like this. We are also black, me myself has African heritage only having the opportunity to live here as my parents didn't have that education privilege back home and seek better for them and their children. Just because we weren't enslaved and built off racism doesn't mean we don't face it. Here in London racism frives silently and isn't address like it is in America. The only difference between us is our cultured which even then are alike. Unlike black American here aren't from the same countries from Somali to Jamaica to the ivory coast we all different. Something that doesn't sit right with me about this as well is that y'all out here getting angry at us but when actors like Tom Holland play Spiderman or Millie Bobbie brown play eleven in stranger things it's seen as cool and exciting. I don't see why Ur getting mad as your American actors also play AFRICAN characters and don't see anything wrong with it please stop being hypocritical and educate yourself on the lifestyle on black Brits cause we are no different than you and can relate alot when it comes to racism and experiences in the opportunity Also the only problem I see is when they play a historical black American
@@angel.1202 well I live in London we is kinda like NYC and from my experience it very diverse but as u go to the more rural places and out of England like Wales and Scotland it not as diverse
many of the most lauded actors in the usa are not from the usa - they are brits, aussies, canadians and I don't know if this argument takes place in the white community - and i understand why since they have all the roles, but still, instead of arguing amongst ourselves for a few roles, we should be making sure that more roles are there for ALL black people
Agreed. In fact, some of the black 'American' performers in the states, Delroy Lindo for example, were born in Britain and have lost their accent because of how soon they left for a better life. It's almost as if people will find any reason to divide us further without realising that we have a common enemy, which in this case is the industry itself.
There was some press about the Australian take over. White American actors getting annoyed and complaining about the amount of Australian actors taking all the lead roles. Nicole Kidman, Isla Fisher, Chris Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman, Cate Blanchett, Margot Robbie, Simon Baker, Rose Bryan, Toni Collette and Naomi Watts to name a few. It’s a lot of actor’s competing for the same Hollywood leading roles so when they don’t get it and the movie a huge hit they get salty. The same reason you see all these Australian actors in Hollywood is the very same reason you see the black British actors. Hollywood is were the work is until they get the same or similar opportunities in there respective countries they will travel across the pond to gain those opportunities.
White people do discuss this however. Often white brits are chosen because they are cheaper. Leading to even established white actors struggling to get decent jobs.
@@vangoghsotherear4114 are they struggling to get 'decent' jobs or are some not getting the biggest roles? because i'm sure data will show it's still white (male) americans that take the majority of leading roles in hollywood....
As an actor myself, I’ve lived in America and I live in Britain. There are hardly any tiles out here in the uk so I agree with travelling to get better opportunities because that’s what am everyone does if there’s a chance something better for them. I understand their frustration and agree that historical figures should be left to native actors but this is from a personal point of view! As an actor what is most important is the story and who helps better/deliver that story for the audience. If I’m creating a British movie and I cast for a British actor but the American actor plays the part better, I will choose the actor that best tells the story to the vision! It’s like watching queen and slim and loving the movie like crazy but then being mad because the actors are British? At the end of the day, did you enjoy the movie? Did it mean something to you? If so then the actors did their jobs in telling the story to the audience!
There are many layers to this. What you did is exactly what all immigrants do. Thereis no shame in that. the Mexicans are coming to the US for jobs just like you. As long as you enjoy the fruit of their labor is not the point, so enjoying the movie is not really the point. the point is when they are willing to work for less and they have created a foreign working group that is now competing with indigenous groups, that's where the problem is. The indigenous group pay taxes, help prop up the system and as soon as there started to be more roles, a foreign group comes in to take advantage. In AA vews that happens on so many level, starting with civil rights, educations, jobs etc. When ever they fight for somethings, open up doors, other groups come in and take advantage. If this continues you gonna see an erosion in the locals capacity to produce great workers i.e. actors in this sense. As an individual I understand you have to be selfish, but if you are being objective you have to admit, you are a foreigner taking the few jobs that the locals could get. Besides, there are 40 million blacks in the US and maybe about 1.9 million in England, I bet you statistically black English are doing better as far as roles played as a percentage of the population compare to Black Americans. If you guys don't understand the animosity, I have to say I'm disappointed, cause as actors you guys should have a strong sense of why people behave or respond a certain ways since your job description is to inhabit other people's realities and become them.
@@navytanutrof1823 At the end of the day. You need more people of your own kind like Tyler Perry to make power moves, uplift and create opportunities. Otherwise your complaints will fall on deaf ears. You cannot be protectionist and dedicate who gets cast if you don't own shit. I'm not saying this to be condescending, but this is the reality of the situation.
@@tysonmcduggan6870 I agree with you actually, but I thought we were all black here, where is the camaradery. We are not going to your country, you are coming to ours. I don't have a problem with anyone doing any work, but it's funny that you guys refused to look at this through the lense of culture. Again blackness is the weakest form of identification, especially when the foreign blacks usually have open disdain for African American. All the billions of black people in the world are not the same, if they were we would not have utu and tutsi killing each other. Furthermore as a non American I can analyse a topic by trying to see where someone is coming from. Are there reasons for AA to feel the way they do? When you have 40milliiins of blacks in American and about 1.9 millions of English blacks but now you have a trend where most of the roles in America for black people are going to English black, the least you can do is acknowledging that yes I can see why the indigenous blacks may have an issue. Can we at least agree with that?
@@tysonmcduggan6870 Thank you 😊 My thoughts exactly‼️ They forget that in the casting who chose those Black British actors over the Americans? The producers like Oprah for Selma, the director of the movie who always have the last word for the casting and the actors he/ she will chose, the one who will bring his/ her vision for the movie the best. Both the directors and producers chose the actress and actors that they saw embodying the best the role for their movies; Black British and African actors and actresses don’t even have a say when they are chosen over someone else, knowingly how are it is to get a job in Hollywood as a black actors. The non African Americans actors and actresses they only do the casting, they have no power decisions about the casting choice, but here we come Samuel and co, bashing the black British or non AA actors, instead to go questioning and speaking with Oprah and others directors and producers‼️ We know that who opened their big mouth the most, won’t dare to speak up face to face with the directors and producers of the movie, so they weakly preferred to target the non black Americans actors and actresses‼️😤🙄😡
I think there is also a conversation to be had about how British racism decreases opportunities for Black entertainers in their own country forcing them to seek the American market to make and star in movies in shows.
Woww! And what did you think 🤔 happened in USA for a century!! Did us black Americans run away in the millions to other countries!! No we stayed & fought for the next generation!! We still fighting
This is complex and some accents(Jamaican) in the movie clips do seem interesting... however there is a point to both sides and a good amount of blame should go to casting directors and their intentions of erasure or not... Pan Africanism is important and just so people know it is very hard for black British actors to get roles in the UK and that is why they come to America. Ps. Black British actors don’t usually get to use their accent in these films so they don’t even represent themselves. There should be American roles in UK and British roles in America also for representation across diasporas.
Mm! You raise a very interesting point. The reason for lack of roles, esp in the UK could also be to do with how the black-British experience is 1.a relatively new one and 2.a relatively obscure one (to outsiders). That’s really true, there aren’t really many roles specific to black-British actors at all.
The argument of African Americans playing Brits and Africans is faulty because AA's didn't go to England or the Caribbean or Africa to take those roles, they were cast out of their own country's industry. Then some of the same B British actors turn around and disrespect AA's showing a gross lack of compassion, and why they are not fit to represent these iconic AA figures that they are playing. AA's have a right to be mad, they eeked out their space in the Film industry with their blood, sweat and tears only to be usurped by Black British actors playing their iconic figures and heroes? That is painful, as they understand this undermining is based on racism. Then some people try to say that the Black Brits are better actors which is not true. We need to respect each other is the bottom line. BTW, Sam Jackson can say what ever he wants about what is happening in the movie industry because his films have grossed the highest at the box office put together, he has earned the right to comment on his observations. AA's have done some pretty amazing things on this planet, including building the American economy, then saving it practically single handed-ly when the cotton crop failed (George Washington Carver), and lets not forget the Civil Rights Movement, which benefits so many non AA's to this day. AA's have earned all of the respect that is given to everyone else but AA's. I know I'd be pissed AF if Halle Berry came to Jamaica and booked the Lady Saw biopic. LOL.
I'm white and british so I literally have no authority on this topic but I loved this video and looove your channel!! The roles that Daniel Kaluuya had to play before he broke the US were sooooo bad. I remember watching Psychoville and Skins and feeling so bad for him that he had to play into racist plot lines and stereotypes in order to get roles, despite him being a phenomenal actor. I totally get why he left
I think it depends on the type of role for sure. There might also be a difference between actors directly of African descent and descendants of slavery when it comes to some roles and I can see why that would cause tension.
This is complex in itself because a lot of Africans experienced or were heavily affected by sl/very so it would be a tiresome and near impossible process for someone to do an ancestry test for this before applying for a role.
@@reneedasilva1153 An argument that I've seen on twitter, mostly from African Americans, is that because certain black British actors aren't descended from slaves, they shouldn't be playing roles of people who are, or something
@@bundyhinds7346 LOL but how would they know that they're not descendants of slaves? I mean do they realise that those are kin of Africans that were taken into slavery and that slavery was also still happening in Africa? I mean I'm just tired of this. At this point let Black Americans just sit in their corner on their own, and leave the rest of us out, no more Wakanda.
There is a problem because you have a home grown industry you have to help grow. Making movie is a job, and like many jobs no one wants to be replaced by a foreigner. Black British are British not Americans just like irishamerican are not Irish. If a bunch of irishamerican started getting most of the roles in Ireland in stories that are purely about irish people, the home grown industry for actors in that country will certainly have something to say about that, you better believe it.
But where are you from though? I'm sure you would feel a way if most black brit characters in UK media started being portrayed by black americans. I'm also sure that you would be able to notice the difference.
It does not matter if they are American or black British; what matters is does the person embody the character they are portraying. Like are they a similar height, look like the historical figure and so on.
Cynthia Erivo is much darker and half a foot shorter than Aretha Franklin. David Oyelowo looks nothing like MLK. Ruth Negga looks nothing like Mildred Loving.
@@simbahunter8894 but that’s what I am saying. It doesn’t matter to me who plays the character but they need to look like, sound like or sing like the character they are portraying
I'm so glad RU-vid recommended this video to me! I remember one of my coworkers mentioned this discussion a few years ago when Spike Lee weighed in on this, and she said "I think some Americans feel as if they own blackness." It made me consider some of the portrayals of blackness we get in the UK as well- the only show I can think of which truly seems to have diverse casting and characters is Netflix's "Sex Education", which I thought was an American show until I watched it. Most Netflix shows often sideline their black characters so SE was also an outlier in that respect. But in season 2 of SE when we were focused on developing Jackson's storyline, all I could think was this wasn't something we would get to see in a BBC or Channel 4 production. I'm white and my opinion comes down to: we can't restrict black British actors to British roles without also restricting white British actors to white British roles, which is something which would never happen. There are plenty of big-name English stars who are famous for playing American characters, such as Tom Holland playing Spiderman and Millie Bobby Brown playing Eleven in Stranger Things, and they've never had this extra barrier to their careers to contend with. I think we should allow casting directors and actors the freedom they need while making sure writer's rooms and storylines are more diverse so that we can tell more satisfying stories for everyone.
Black has always been specific to enslaved Africans brought to USA!! That has been our names sine 1619!! Quiet literally!! Caribbean go by nationality & Africans go by tribes
I get your point but you can't compare white British actors to black British actors vs American actors. The pool for opportunities is not the same and the min issue is non black American playing historical figures
As a black American, I think black Beira have done an amazing job playing Americans. It would be nice to see more black Americans playing American roles AND more black brits playing British roles. I also want to add that it’s odd because throughout the diaspora, black Americans are told we don’t have our own culture. I would really like to see it both ways. I think we all are one family, just distant cousins.
I personally haven’t met anyone who doesn’t believe black American Americans don’t have their own culture, but I don’t doubt that people may believe this. I am surprised by this because of how much of your culture has inspired many parts of the diaspora so it is a shame people think like this
@Town of Tawiah While the discussion here has been contentious and lively, kudos to you for hosting it. When the subject of Black Brits being cast as Black American heroes to the detriment of American actors comes up, the attitude has been that we're being "divisive" and "xenophobic" when we state our concerns. Thank you for being more evenhanded.
No....but Imma hear you out lol So it's not about Brits not playing any role in Hollywood - which has the biggest industry - but about Brits really asking if they should be playing historical roles of real Americans....
Americans are good at forgetting there was once a time where films with a historical Black person went only to them. We don’t have time to worry about this nonsense. Unite not fight.
@@adamibnmustafa8380 i agree because they don’t know how we feel and how we are compared. I feel black brits only wanted to think of themselves here. There argument is basically “we need the roles so we are going to take them” lol they didn’t even express why black Americans feel some kind of way. This video basically didn’t give American people’s perspective.
So interesting to hear the different sides of this conversation. Clearly it is a complex topic and I think it only helps for videos like this to address the concerns of all sides in such a respectful manner. Thank you for the video!
Thank you my dear, this is what we need as a people, I am from Nigeria, but I will never ever put my nationality over my shared humanity with my African brothers an sisters anywhere and everywhere! ✊🏾As the great Bob Marley said, ONE LOVE! ☝🏿🖤🤎
My favourite video so far, reminds me of the conversations that I have with my sisters lol. I’m of the belief that roles should be cast to whoever embodies the spirit of the role best as long it’s done extremely respectfully.
As a Black first generation American performer, I can honestly say that having non-American Black people playing American roles be it fictional or historical, does not concern me. What does concern me though is the exchange and balance of respect being given vice versa. Contrary to popular belief, when a Black American was given leeway to play a character that required an accent and mannerisms that were of a literal foreign nature, they were ripped apart for their performances and attempt at accents with John regard to the fact that most of the time Black people here were not given the same access to or encouraged to get professional help with this like their whiter counterparts where. Black people in all their cultural facets were barely taken seriously let alone even being considered to be apart of film that made them more than, “ghetto, hoe’s, pimps, or any other stereotypes” that kept us from doing more. There is also the feeling of currently getting to a point where we can be seen as more and once again feeling like we are overlooked in our own home for more “exotic” versions of ourselves. It feels like once again we’ve made such strides and we still are pushed to the back as “not good enough.” The truth is there is no real general hate or dislike for non-American Blacks playing Black American roles, we are just concerned about the balance of actually having respect for who is already here as well as respect for our contributions as actors and respectful intent of the character we play that are not American and be met with the same encouragement and love that we either give or you would like to see form is. I hope I explained this perspective clearly.
I watch For Harriet quite a bit and have heard Kim make a very similar observation. I was surprised not to see anyone talking about this in the comments and I’m really glad you brought it up.
The entire Hollywood industry is bad. As harsh as this sounds, I can't help but acknowledge that at least Black Brits and Black Americans share a skin color. Any american movie/show/musical that takes place in Egypt or Greece has a predominantly white cast. To the point where most ameircans genuinely believe egypt and greece were white. I can't name a single Greek Zeus, but I can tell you 6 of them were white british actors. Hollywood discriminates against people with darker skin and this is just the cherry on top. I am sorry that my comment goes into oppression Olympics territory, I genuinely support this video, but any time someone brings this topic up I can't help but see how far we still need to come.
Lovely video!! I appreciate your take and examples given on this topic, while I'm mainly embedded in Black American culture, I am still a desecent of Haitians and well researched/lack of authentic representation in media for afro-Caribbean folk is slim and I'm glad you pointed out how , in general, most roles don't go to these local actors in the black diaspora. I think self-awareness when it comes to taking or researching for these roles should be implemented, along with holding casting directors and companies to an account. Beefing with the diaspora won't directly affect the problem in a constructive way to me at least. But I'm lowkey feeling like the expansion beyond just American or typical American storytelling should catch on; loads of stories that are untold and have yet to be adapted to any media form.
Girl...oh god. I couldn’t even watch the video. I can’t with these simplified over dramatic responses to issues you know nothing about. I can’t speak on Britain because I’m American, so why does immigrant blacks always feel they have an expert opinion on American issues? And, the rebuttal of “Well, black Americans play British roles....” Sis! Those are American made films nonetheless! It’s not my problem you guys don’t stay in your own country and fight for opportunities. You run over here then complain there’s no opportunities, yet you have no issue taking roles MEANT for black Americans. Aretha is more than a movie, she’s our icon. Skin color has nothing to do with a shared cultural experience. You do not have the same lineage and history as an Aretha, so you cannot possibly give it the same justice as a black American can. We are already being replaced by non black POCS now we have to fight against erasure by our own “black ppl.” If you want to feel included make a space for yourself, stop stomping on our toes to get a bag. Selfish and arrogant you are.
I also feel like this argument is coming about at a time where Black Americans are strongly feeling the "Black monolith" and are desiring separation. We're seen as a race here in America and don't exactly have a "specific" cultural term for our people so when other people come over here with established cultures that other people recognize AND RESPECT and don the moniker of African American, it gets frustrating and confusing cause all of a sudden "we're all the same". And when you ask for separation, you're being divisive or "we're all Black" further contributing to the monolith. We know what it looks and feels like to not have representation or to be replaced, or even to be treated like this country is not our despite being here 400 years. I think the biggest problem is fear of erasure and what little cultural traditions we have left that haven't been monetized and shipped over the globe. Most of the arguments in this video for why this should be okay is based on white/non Black peoples view of Blackness, which is not okay. Why are we basing our standards on white people? Why can't we respect each other's cultures, and allow for proper representation in the diaspora. Idc what's been done in the past so I don't wanna hear it. And Black Panther, that was an AA DREAM of what African would look like if we were never stolen so I especially don't wanna hear the Chadwick argument. The fact that he grew up in Mississippi, prolly the most effed up state in America, to play an African king and superhero is beyond inspiring.
They made Chadwick play every inspirational AA man ever to fucking exist, and I was here for every second of it. I'm so glad he got to experience worldwide praise when he did before he passed. I love that man. I miss him with all my heart. A true Howard-educated, Southern-raised, Alpha man. There will never be another like him.
@@RespecttheScreenplay Go for it! There aren’t a crazy amount of roles as has been said but I know of at least one Black American actress who is based in the UK; her name is Crystal Clarke and I’ve seen her in two things, both period dramas, Ordeal by Innocence on BBC One and Sanditon on ITV 1. Good luck!
As long as you do it better than Forest Whitaker and Don Cheadle lol. I'm all for it. I couldn't believe I was watching Forest, he is a masterclass in acting, but Lord that accent, whew!
Thank You for that research, I understand AA take and respect it, but the discussion never brings up AA playing British, Caribbean and Africans in the past, in fact they were the only actors being offered those parts. I'm glad you brought that up. Especially, when the accents were so dire.
I wrote a whole comment and accidentally deleted it 😭 shorter version (I swear lol): • major historical roles (including fiction) - keep it in the community please and thanks (exceptions - Chiwetel and Lupita; David as MLK bc there have been 1000 and he was great; Cynthia as Celie, yes, Harriet & Aretha, no). Other than that, I’m here for talent. • Americans and us playing anything but American......the second hand embarrassment is real. I’ve been ashamed since childhood 🤣 on the flip side, I am always skeptical of American accents no matter the actor’s background especially Southern. We have many! • you inspired me to (slowly) build a history/sociology curriculum based on the diaspora. I’m always thinking of how to better prepare my relatives and students to be more knowledgeable about other Black people across the world. I loved the video! Thank you for providing context and clips from actors themselves to support your argument.
I got to read the other comment in my notifications too so you didn’t waste the time don’t worry lol. Thank you for this! I think it would be amazing to find a way to integrate more on the African diaspora into our education because it’s such a huge part of most countries' history, please do sounds great !!
I'm African American and enjoy all Black British actors range. Basically, our skin carries throughout all cultures with very similar meaning. We are all connected and should continue to support all artists who can tell stories authentically.
A couple things you left out. Many of the Black Brits in question have openly expressed anti-African American sentiments. I mean Daniel literally says he's tired of talking about race and nearly every role he takes deals with race. This man just played a Black panther lol. As well, we're not debating whether they should get the roles (I doubt there would be fuss if these were European productions for a European or even international audience), but rather if they should be getting these career defining/dream roles in the American industry that we've worked extremely hard to be respected in. In an industry that refuses us the right to tell our own stories, where roles for Black actors in America are already scarce, it's a slap in the face. The African American playing non-American roles in a false equivalent because these are American productions. We are not in starting roles in productions outside of the US. HELL we are barely roles in the US. These arguments seem trivial, but they are apart of a larger context. I think your approach was done tastefully, but too many times our concerns are dismissed and that's problematic.
Being black and British, do feel your opinion is biased? Would have been a great discussion with both sides being able to share their perspective. Although I feel you did a good job showcasing the differences in the black experience not being monolithic just because we are black. I also appreciate you not hiding why many black Americans are not in favor of Cynthia Enrivo playing black American roles when she (and Luvvie) have shown so much disrespect and disdain towards our culture, but all the while profiting from it.
I think the deeper trouble that’s not being commented on is a caliber issue that’s still kinda based in colonialism, the issue being that British actors are considered by casting agents as more distinguished than their American counterparts which is usually no big deal for white actors because there’s a larger number of roles out there and Americans have the option of going the Canada, Australia, and British productions too but once you get to minority roles that gets stickier. American media has more black roles overall but the consideration skews towards British actors because of that old bias you’ll see the same thing happening with Asian roles too with a number of those roles going to British actors over Americans. I think that’s the part that needs to be confronted the old hierarchy based thinking. Instead of giving into infighting and having a crabs in the bucket mentality.
I really enjoyed this! When it comes to Black British actors playing slaves it gets kinda touchy for me. I'm not referring to the Black Brits who are good at their craft, I'm talking about the ones with problematic and often hostile history against Black Americans. American slavery is humiliating, emotional, and pays homage to our struggles. When someone with a questionable past occupies these roles, it ends up feeling like an insult to injury. But yeah, everything else is fair game. Didn't even know the debate was this broad until now. Thanks again!
How does it get touchy when a large amount of the black British population are descendants of the transatlantic slave trade via the Caribbean? Please learn our history before forming such opinions.
May I remind you that like every other country in the world, the USA does not have open borders. Foreigners do not have the right to just come over here and work, and that includes Black British actors.
It's deeper than AA getting roles also that are not AA. It's a lot about 1.It is AA who have really shed blood to kick the doors of Hollywood down and many of the stories told portray the extremely painful CENTURIES of struggle by AA. And it is not as few and far apart as the roles AA have played from other cultures IT seems definitely cruel and intentional because it is consistent and AA have basically been entirely shut out of telling their own stories. Another obvious factor is that AA have played foreign characters in AMERICA where the pool and WHEN the pool of foreign actors was extremely small. The parallels are VASTLY different AA are not going to Africa or Britain flooding the film industry and taking roles that the black people there have worked and fought really hard for to the point of death!!! Also these other cultures have not opened these doors in their countries. It is horribly disingenuous that foreign blacks would act like they don't see that the sweeping shut out of AA actors telling AA stories is just another abuse issued towards AA in a Country that has often used other blacks in the diaspora to do that. Black people should and do know how to discern when it's innocent and when they become a tool of abuse against other blk people, against AA. The talent from AA is parallel AA have been extremely dynamic in telling their own stories. Roots won several awards with over 25 very well trained excellent AA actors, Malcolm X, Hidden Figures, the list goes on AA HAVE NEVER been even close to subpar telling their stories. The majority of the movies are award winning classics so the argument that British are better trained to do these roles is also another Hollywood lie! Let's really be unified and stop acting like we don't see the frequency of the shut out of AA as obviously another abuse and too many are willing participants dishonestly spewing the argument of unity!!!
i grew up in both america and england and i am blasian, though to most i am just perceived as black. racism was present in both countries, both equally bad experiences. however, in my experience, they are both separate and have their own nuances. i think prominent historical roles should be played by the same nationality. i also think that roles that revolve around the experience of being black in a certain country should be played by a black person who is from said country. i think by doing so, one is respecting the unique experience of each situation.
I think what is often left out of this convo is the fact that Hollywood is an American enterprise intended for American audiences. Of course, it is by default global because of America’s global dominance but the intended audiences are American people. Other countries have their own screen culture and productions. Within Hollywood specifically, again an American industry bolstered by American tax dollars and headquartered in America, there should be a priority to hire Black Americans. Also Lena Waithe is a bird lol.
I definitely feel like this was a one sided video that doesn’t even begin to the complexities of Black people in Hollywood (film, tv, and chitlin circuit) Yes, African Americans have played non-AA historical figures. At the time these films came out, most of us engaging in this discourse wasn’t even old enough to acknowledge these films. So of course, more often than not, no one was probably discussing the ignorance of these actors playing these roles. As an adult am I okay with this? No. I think historical roles should be left to actors with those backgrounds. Also, the amount of non-AA actors playing AA historical roles have far surpassed the amount of AA who have played non-AA. When British actors come to the states, there seems to be a lack of respect given to AA actors and the work they have had to put in to be respected by Hollywood. British actors have made several comments, not just Cynthi Ervio, disrespecting AA actors. Ex: David Oyelowo and Carmen Ejogo. Black brits come to America to seek work but don’t realize that they’re steeping into roles that are purposefully leaving out AA to play their own stories. Yes, black actors have a difficult time in their own contort getting roles, but isn’t it up to those actors to put in the work to make sure their own stories get told in their home countries? If AA moved to England and started taking up roles meant for black brits, there would be outrage. It’s been highly documented that AA don’t have the same opportunities as the brits to go across the pond to get acting roles. Black brits and AA don’t have the same experiences or histories, so to reduce our experiences down to, “well we’re all black” is very dismissive. Black brits benefit from the work AA put in, but those same AA aren’t even afforded leading roles to play their people.
I blame Hollywood for this mess, but i would be lying if i didn't wonder the same thing at one point. I didn't even know the dude from "GET OUT" was British for the longest time!!! I kind of felt lied too....
I really don’t want this to come across disrespectful, so hopefully it isn’t taken in that way. But how was u lied to? Wouldn’t it be fair to say that he was just ‘acting’ as an African American as opposed to lying about his nationality?
You do realise people from all around the world move to America to work in the film industry. They then change their accents to suit the role they are playing. When you watch a film often the ‘Russian’ villain isn’t actually a Russian, as pointed out the Jamaican character isn’t actually Jamaican etc. It’s acting
I would definitely like to hear more Black British stories, ESPECIALLY the non-immigrant ones. When it comes to Black American roles, while I love Lindo and others, I do feel the recent batch of British actors haven't done their due diligence on our regional accents which is really annoying. Like with Falcon, the sister was using a New York accent yet they were spose to be from the south 💀. Then there's Cynthia Orivo 🤢 who's gotten away with playing very important historical figures despite making disparaging comments about us. Imma put her in a separate category and would love for her to never play one of us ever again.
My two cents as an American - all of these actors are so good and I’ve enjoyed their performances so it doesn’t bother me. I mean we have all loved Idris forever. Butttt I’m open to what the acting community has to say. Has anyone actually asked the actors?
We need to looking for more black directors instead of actors maybe we could see more actors that are ADS star in film roles.Why can a white person play any character but with us it's a issue.
As a Canadian, I feel like I'm pretty neutral in this discussion. In my opinion, AfAms are well within their rights to feel like they're being pushed out of the opportunities that they've fought for. Yes, Hollywood is at the center on movie production in this current era, but that's not AfAms fault. They should be able to tell their own stories and should be the majority of the representation of black actors in Hollywood. My issue is how condescending some black brits and foreign black actors in general can be in general. I've listened to a few British podcasts where this topic was discussed and the black British actors were very quick to say that they were being chosen because they had more skill and could pull off the accent... No offense, but foreigners in general are chosen in Hollywood because they're cheaper and less demanding. Most are very willing to make sacrifices to get their foot in their door and they don't demand anywhere near the same amount as benefits as American actors do (for good reason). The shitty part is that this undermines the American actors. It forces them to reduce their pay and reduce their benefits just to be able to compete. Also, I really don't understand where the better acting skills arguments comes from. When They See Us had some of the BEST acting that I had ever seen in my entire life and those were all American actors. I just think AfAms are very limited in the roles they can take. It's usually underwhelming projects like Tyler Perry and a lot of networks like BET scout influencers instead of actual actors making the opportunities even more rare. Going back to what I mentioned, I also don't get the accent thing. Like I said, I'm Canadian and I can't tell you how many times I knew instantly that an actor was European. What makes it worse is most American productions aren't even filmed with an accurate accent. It's usually the general American accent or a vague southern one. They are using less demanding "accents" and even then I can spot it so genuinely don't get why soooo many Black Brit actors are quick to say that they nail it. I'm not saying that there aren't any talented Black Brits actors, but most aren't chosen for the reasons that they think they are. This also applies to white foreign actors as well. I will always think that it's more respectable to focus on building within your own community than opting to profit in the countries where others have already done the work. Frankly, it's lazy and perpetuates the cycle of black brits feeling like they have to leave their country to be successful
Great discussion! I agree all sides will have their issues and preferences. But talent should always rule the day. Someone will always be to much of that or not enough of this.
I've noticed that the beef between Black Americans and Black British people didn't exist till Samuel L. Jackson made a comment about Black British actors.
@@adamibnmustafa8380 I am not talking about the tension between Black Americans and Black immigrants in the United States tho. I'm discussing this feud between Black Americans and Black British people. I'm fully aware that some Black Americans don't get along with Black immigrants in the United States and vice versa. That is due to xenophobia, internalized anti-blackness, classism, ethnocentrism, elitism, etc..,
I fully agree! Especially because I don’t hear this argument being made with regard to Black people from any other country playing an African American role even though quite a few exist. People are just repeating what they heard someone they admire and respect saying.
When Samuel L. Jackson made his observation, while Black Brits had been cast in prominent roles, the trend was still a trickle. Now it's a flood. And now completely unknown Black Brits are being cast in leading and supporting roles, in American television as well as in films. This deprives Black American actors of vital opportunities necessary to develop their careers. Samuel L. Jackson, Denzel Washington and Viola Davis are not overnight successes. They worked in smaller parts for years before they became stars. Now younger Black Americans, with degrees from prestigious schools (and thousands of dollars in student loan debt) aren't even being allowed to audition for Black American roles. It's a deliberate anti-Black American strategy.
And saying that it doesn't matter we are all black is like a parent having 2 kids and alway giving one child more food and candy and barely feeding the other and when the child with less food ask for more food the parent replies "You're all my children it doesn't matter". Black Americans have always had to deal with being treated differently than foreign black people. Some schools that were reserved for whites would allow caribbeans and Africans in of course at a limited number but they were still able to recieve better education. Black Americans do not typically take roles in Britain in large numbers you have to admit it was not like every role in Britain that needed black person starred a black American but now they have tv shows and movies where darn near the whole cast is black british or half. That's what Samuel is talking about they are locking black americans out of roles that are elders fought for.
I don't have a problem with Black British people acting roles. My problem is when black british actor disrespects black americans and turn around playing historical black american figures.
Thanks for the informative video. I do remember reading that some U.S directors prefer casting British actors in certain roles (regardless of whether they're black or white) because over there they have a major respect for UK acting/theatre training and the UK's history of performing arts. This might explain to a certain extent why British Black Actors are revered and are being cast in roles as African-Americans. Great work with the channel!
I really love the nuance you gave to this discussion!! as an African person living in Africa, I really do think it's all about hegemony and global positioning. the U.S as it stands in film and television is a hegemonic superpower, thus the critiques coming from black Americans is a bit shortsighted and not factoring in the privilege of the U.S as a country in the global north overall.
You may not have noticed, but that so-called American privilege doesn't extend very much to Black Americans. Certainly not when we aren't even allowed to play ourselves in American films.
@@simbahunter8894 i definitely have noticed the extent of the privileges obviously (also because of just how much of a grip the global north has on media, i know quite a bit). what i’m saying is to look at the grander picture - which factors in things like globalization, and socio-economic scales etc
@@rufarochiswo1879 I'm afraid that means nothing to a Black American watching a film or television show. Why should it? We don't control those factors and they don't operate for our benefit and never have. That's like asking a Nigerian living in a substandard house with no running water not to complain because Nigeria is an oil rich country.
I loved your point at the end about competition - if there were more roles for black actors in general then this wouldn't be so much of an issue. Also the Small Axe films were brilliant but I haven't seen Stuck in Limbo, I want to watch that now so thank you!
Have you watched British TV?! There are loads of roles for black people (because generally most standard TV shows don’t cast roles based on ethnicity unless it’s essential to the character). I grew up watching shows that were diverse- doctor who, Tracy beaker, misfits, skins, Luther, casualty, call the midwife, any of the British soaps, top boy. The only all white shows I watched (when thinking retrospectively) are ones that wouldn’t have made sense otherwise. Historical dramas for example, or shows set in certain areas (generally outside of major towns in Wales there are very few black people as an example).
@@Bringon-dw8dx Those are all great shows but how many of them actually have Black leads (as in not just one black supporting character)? And that's only a small selection of British TV. Her point was that overall there is a limit on leading roles for Black actors in the UK. Also Black people have lived in the UK for hundreds of years so there's no reason why they couldn't be cast in historical dramas.
@@georgiabevan2234 you have to understand the demographics in the uk aren’t the same as in the USA. MANY shows based in cities do have black leads because that reflects the demographics of that area (I personally just don’t watch them because not usually my cup of tea but my brother does). And when you actually look this up there are proportional opportunities for black actors in the uk. With regards to things like historical dramas yes there were minorities in the uk throughout history although they were extremely rare. Even today there are entire parts of the country where it’s common for there to not be a single black person in a village or school- let alone 500 years ago
I honestly find that black brits becoming more famous in america makes me sad, because not only does it seems like they are just doing historical roles, it also worries me that in england, there doesnt always seem to have much black people in leading roles. (Except for the gems that she mentioned in the video obviously, but you get what i mean) Its like, hollywood is the only way for them to get recognized despite British movies being pretty good and international
As long as the actor is African it is fine we are actors we are both Africans we may have some closer ties to our families etc. It is very divisive and we need to stop fighting with each other
@@ekg891 I said this about Black Panther. Why is it that Klaue, the white guy in the movie nails a South African accent better than the Black actors in the movie? This is really my only complaint about both Black British and Black American actors. The African accents are terrible. There has never been a good one and they should spare us the embarrassment. The flip floppy accents do take me out of the movie. I get that they won’t hire African actors because the name Idris Elba is more likely to pull audiences but I well and truly hope that no other non-South African actors will play Nelson Mandela. I will forever though be torn on wanting a story told but also sitting in the theater and trying to ignore those atrocious accents because I’m doing it for the cultural support.
@@simbahunter8894 But they used exclusively Zulu, Xhosa dressed in very distinctly traditional South African attire. Sure they weren't per say South Africans. But they sure did base a lot of the costume and language design on South Africans.
I've been reading the comments, and I 100% agree that if it's a historical story that is being played, that role belongs to someone of that nationality. And I will simply never support Cynthia Erivo, I cannot
Are we ever going to acknowledge “Accent Privilege?” Cuz if you are black but have any accent other than American you will be treated as better and more intelligent than American born and raised black people. That’s just the fact. My ex was trini. I experienced a privilege being with him because i was told i could attract black men from elsewhere meaning i must be good stock to get one. But my current bf is 3rd get Nigerian but born in the US and completely Americanized and his parents didn’t pass down any essence of African culture to him. When i walk around with him I’m treated like a typical black person in their 20s. We are treated like criminals. And yes sometimes people can tell even before you speak. Non America black people tend to have different features than are common here and different mannerisms. Yes they’ll look black but carry this air of otherness. I have been mistaken for being a “different kinda black” many times due to my features and when i say “no just regular black” you see the disappointment. It’s like people feel they can somehow relate to non American black people even more than block people born here. They can like me when they think I’m Dominican or African but not once they find out I’m just regular black 🤷🏾♀️ (Edit: i see you mentioned accent privilege briefly at the end and just breezed by it. Would’ve like if you went deeper into that because that’s a huge part of the reason black Americans are concerned.) And saying we can’t blame the actors individually while we as a community tend to hold non black people individually accountable for their collective racism. But okay.....
In the UK, African accents are made a joke of by both black and non-black people. It was a hugeee thing when Africans would always get bullied for their names and parents accents and language. It was especially bad in the early 2000s when young Africans would try to hide the fact that they were African or no one would take them seriously and they would get horribly bullied. We are aware of and have acknowledged Accent privilege it’s just that you are preaching to the choir. The othering takes place across countries and manifests in various ways. The Brits are not the ones othering you, yet that issue is being projected onto the Brits. We are on your side and address the issue yet we are told that we’d never understand and are bombarded with history lessons that we learnt into school. The non-American black experience is so underrepresented that many of us are taught on the American civil rights movement before we even learn about the history of black people in our own country. Yet here we having to explain that we are aware of the facts that are constantly presented. If you came to the Uk with an American accent, often times people would be enthralled by it and see black women from here as inferior. people fetishise foreigners and perceive them as exotic, this is nothing new and it manifests in many ways. Your American issues with race is a problem with white society that has been internalised in the American black community hence the way people look down on what you referred to as ‘regular black’. That does not take away from the fact that the ACTUAL enemy is the racism in American society that creates that division not a bunch of British actors moving to the worlds biggest film industry for more opportunities just like many other actors do.
@@TownofTawiah it still doesn’t negate that if it continues it will just lead to further erasure of American born black people when we fought for decades for the representation we even have now only to have those roles go to UK actors because they are perceived as more intelligent or work the roles for less. Black people here haven’t gotten the head start we need after all the years our ancestors put in to even get us to this point and there’s always more to compete with on the other side. Do you understand it is draining? And it’s not something to gloss over. I understand the acting world is competitive. But when we see Zoe Saldana painting her skin black to play nina Simone then things get crazy..... And yes Africans may be made fun of for their accent. And Asian people are made fun of for their eye shape. But they are still given more grace than American born black people in America. Black Americans have to h e access to the opportunities WE fought for while everyone tried to silence us and treat us like the bad apples who just wouldn’t get along. Now we are being told to just shush up about wanting what we fought for. After being told all these years to shush up when we were in the fight? Even Africans were telling me how lazy and entitled blacks people were. We wanted to fight for rights and were told we were too lazy to work hard like others and wanted things given. Well now i feel this way about non American black people who ignore the decades and centuries of fighting it took for us to get here. And we have to fight everyday to keep ourselves from being silenced.
@Nahovi Nomad I mainly agree with you, I am not glossing over it and I hear you. I am not those people who said those things to you, most people in this comment section acknowledge and sympathise with your struggle. We actually have a different type of love and appreciation for you guys because you have always been our only representation as black brits mainly settled in the mid-1900s while black Americans have been around for centuries. Our equivalent to the civil rights movement, for that reason, was naturally going to be later. If Britain had an established film industry that accepted black Americans I'm sure Hollywood would have lost a lot of its original black talent to a British film industry but it didn't so there isn't an equivalent to this experience hence why it's difficult to reason with us. Side note: many brits are already supporting homegrown talent, it's just the biggest names in the entertainment industry are formed through an acknowledgement from an American audience regardless of race, which is why you may not have heard of these people in the UK. We are so aware of your struggles, and MANY (of course not all, like the ignorant people who tried to silence you) are confused with why the energy is targeted at us who are listening and not at the industry and racist society that made you have to fight so hard. Do you see where I am coming from? x
@@vangoghsotherear4114 Its sad to see that she explained the how the black UK experience with accents is exactly the same but youre too focused on your own trauma to listen. Around the World, having an American Accent /identity as a black person gets you special treatment. Its a phenomenon where the local minorities are lazy but the foreign ones are special. So instead of understanding the scam, people fight each other. You talk about your culture being silenced yet the main media people around the World get to see is US based. Your struggles and stories have always been front and centre. When people saw Hollywood portray black people as thugs and drug dealers, black people all over the World were painted with that identity. So how can you be mad that other people want an opportunity to participate in this globe dominating industry? To tell their stories? To simply exist? Heck, how many Africans were represented in Black Panther? They couldnt even keep the accents and cultures straight. Maybe more African representation in Hollywood would have helped?
@@thezu9250 okay first off, hypervisibility is not a privilege. People all around the world using the Panther symbol after the Black Panthers were founded in America to give their movements visibility didn't stop the Black Panthers' legacy from being destroyed and forgotten for decades. Second, African American culture is stripped from us daily, everything we do and have done has been stolen, commodified and used against us so much so that every time we try to claim ppl act like we're outta pocket for doing so. Third, yall keep talking about Black Panther as if a) that story/character wasn't created specifically for African Americans in mind and b) as if other black diasporian actors weren't all up in there as well (but again we're always the ones yall love to scapegoat). Bringing up examples from almost half a century ago when the industry was completely different, to refute the LONG list of examples just in the past decade doesn't make for a strong case of "it goes both ways". Fourth yall keep saying our American issue with race is a problem with white society but then doesn't that go both ways??? It isn't African Americans' faults that the U.K. doesn't want to acknowledge its own racism, that it doesn't cast black actors, that it wants to lay the blame of racism at the U.S.'s front door. Shouldn't yall be getting mad at them for deciding to erase your history instead of at us for having to fight for our history to be heard. Black Axe was a beautiful miniseries and I couldn't imagine or want any AA actor to play those roles. But imagine my shock but not surprise when in One Night in Miami, Malcom X's actor wasn't AA. All we're asking for is for our stories to be told by us as they have a history of not being done so and done disrespectfully at that. Minstrely was a thing don't act like Hollywood welcomed us with open arms we fought for every space we earned. First whites in blackface played us and now non AAs (many who claim to not see race yet play our historic figures whose lives were entrenched in it) is it a wonder why we're not pleased that we can't tell our own stories. Our struggles may be "front and center" but they don't fully encapsulate us since they aren't told in our voices. And don't act like we wouldn't love to hear yall's stories either. But it's not our fight to get the U.K. to tell them. We understand it's difficult for you just like it's STILL difficult for us over here. But again like it was previously stated that's is energy and frustration yall need to be directing to the white Brits not us. Also us being focused on our own trauma, umm no shit sherlock it's OUR trauma, of course that's what we focus on because that's all we know!!! To act like we can fully understand non AA's trauma would be a huge disrespect to both sides because we are not a monolith!!! But it seems ppl love to forget that when we speak out on how we feel disrespected by the rest of the diaspora. Suddenly it's "we're all black don't try to divide us". Yall say we aren't being silenced but then talk over us and dismiss our valid feelings in the time it took yall to pretend to even listen.
Why the biopics was always my question. It always feels weird. Like Morgan Freeman playing Nelson Mandela. Denzel Washington as Malcom X is the greatest biopic of anyone I've ever seen. The testament of Denzel when he was enraptured by the spirit of brother Malcom and would deliver lines that weren't in the script after the scene ended, that intimate connection to the role does not occur much after Malcom X. In my humble opinion.
I’m inclined to disagree with some of the other comments. In my opinion, this is a recent issue only because there is an expectation from American audiences that the actors who play historical figures should be ‘authentic’ and yet the rest of the diaspora has had to sit through Americans acting out our stories for decades. This shouldn’t be a fight at all. The focus should be on creating more opportunities for all Black people not limiting ones access due to their place of birth. While I love that there is a community of Black people online willing to have these discussions, it does concern me that we continue to be so tribalistic when we have outside agitators to be worried about. A win for any person in the diaspora should be a win for us all.
Also why should black people be treated differently?! White and Asian actors from the uk and Australia often move to America to make it big (the industry is just bigger in the USA). Why should black people not be allowed the same right to reach the peak of their field
If an African American can do a British accent of any region apart from the “Queens English” which isn’t realistic in the type of narratives being told, why not. A lot of it has to do with range and palette. Americans rarely see out of their own perspective. That in itself makes them their own obstacle.
I live in Australia. For me the only issue is their acting ability, getting the accent right, and doing proper research on the figure they're about to play. This way, the viewer won't know the difference.
With all due respect, why do you in far off Australia believe that your thoughts on the matter have any relevance? How about working for better opportunities for your own indigenous people. I'm dure that if the Australian industry financed a big budget film about a Native Australian, and then cast all the good roles with Black Americans, the Native Australians would feel some type of way about it, no matter how good the acting.
@@simbahunter8894 Hollywood is a business. Its current business model is global, use foreign actors for promo and make global box office. Are you not aware members of Academy (ie Oscars) are both Americans and foreigners...?
you make such great videos and are such an intelligent great person! thank you for this video! :) super interesting! I don't have a clear standing towards the topic, as an actor who grew up in Austria I interestingly see myself being in american cinema, but not in british, and I found Daniel Kaluuya's take away fitting - feeling the reason why you're wanted in the project, asking yourself if you want to be in it, and feeling whether you're crossing a line or not, my line right now would be playing a historically important black person, but yeah, super interesting!
thank you so much, I really appreciate it! I think American film has more of an extensive collection of black and generally nuanced stories compared to the UK which might be why you prefer it, can't blame you tbh.
I'm really glad we're talking about this. For me it rubs me the wrong way when the roles are portrayals of actual iconic black Americans. Like can't black Americans become famous for telling or own stories? We're all black but the black American experience is really specific. But also like... am I experiencing that tension because it's something that needs to be problematized or have I somewhat internalized an American imperialist conceptualization of culture? Either way, do I (or black Americans in general) actually gain anything from problematizing the issue? Well.... not really lol. That energy is better spent resisting the culture that devalues black Americans (because of our accents, heritage, etc) than getting upset at individual casting decisions or the individuals being casted.
I'm so excited for a new video! I definitely was pointed here by Khadija but loved your older videos. The audio levels spike up a little high during the clips and interstitial music clips compared with the overall volume of of your speech narration, at least while viewed on a tv. Great editing otherwise and look forward to new videos :) this is a subject I've always wondered about. As an American, "African American" is pretty much the shorthand for "black people" when used in the media, which always seems weird to use as a catchall term since there's so plenty of black immigrants or islanders here also. I think Jimmy's mention that he wouldn't have guessed he wasn't American is very common here. It's nice to hear non-american views on this!
Thank you, I'm looking forward to sharing! I've been working on balancing my volume levels a little better, I'm working on getting new equipment which will hopefully help with that issue. Exactly, not every black person in America identifies as being African American there are so many other cultures in the black community that move to the states South Americans, Caribbeans, immigrants from Europe to name a few and it's careless for the media to overlook their individual herritage.
This was a very well organized and thought out argument. I really hope that in the future Britain gives more opportunities to Black actors and stories. One thing that might be worthwhile to note in the American context is accent privlege and the history of friction between African Americans and recent Black immigrants in America. While Americans tend to look down on foreign accents, there was a study that showed men with most British accents (even less prestigious ones in Britain) are perceived as more competent and intelligent than even those with American accents, though for women the ideal is the standard American accent. I am American and my husband is British, and there was definitely a bias in favor of his accent. Also there's a history of nativism against recent immigrants in the USA which sadly the African American community takes part in and a surprising number of Black immigrants to the US have internalized stereotypical and racist depictions about African Americans from the news, tv shows and other media. Both communities experience similar marginalization in the USA, but this history of being treated as less than by other Blacks makes the African American community particularly sensitive to their culture being mocked or belittled, which is why there was so much backlash to Cynthio Erivo. But yeah either way, whether talking about Black Brits in the USA or African Americans and their diverse culture respect is key.
I didn't watch the whole video yet but us as black Europeans (me as a black girl in Germany) we have no chances of receiving roles in the European countries because of our race. Compared to the European countries America TV is more diverse and there are more opportunities I'm saying this out of a German perspective it might be a little different in Britain.
As a Brit I think maybe it is a bit different. Most of our TV represents the demographic of the UK and the place it’s set (you won’t find many black people in a scene set in the 1700’s England for example, but in any TV show set in London the cast is often majority black or ethnic minorities)
my only question is “are these your experiences ?” because i remember seeing lupita nyugo answering a question saying everything isn’t about america but she’s taking roles as an african american woman... and a lot of these actors are of african descent and they hate or make fun of black american
