CORRECTION AND THANKS: FIrst of all, thanks so much to Lady Lavender for helping me with the script for this video. Secondly, people are telling me that Motoko’s brain is actually real and not scanned. I see that that is the case for the SAC series, but for the movie, it doesn’t seem to be exactly said. Yeah, I know Batou says that there are human brain cells, but I wasn’t sure if that meant artificial cells that were scanned to work like human cells. Plus, I look at all the shots of her brain at the beginning, and it doesn’t look very human. Anyway, I’m not the expert, so I am probably wrong. Sorry about that. I hope you enjoyed the video nonetheless.
If I remember correctly, I think it was in Stand Alone Complex, there's an episode where Kusanagi has to get work done on her Cyberbody, either an update/upgrade to a newer model or maintenence on the current one. And I'm thinking to remember her ghost getting transfered in a new shell, i.e. an artificial brain with artificially grown braincells. Though, this should be taken with a grain of salt as I'm not remembering the details exactly. But it would be more in favor of artificially created braincells used to hold her ghost all along.
In the manga, they really can manufacture artificial skin by the scale of the molecular level. I think whether she is a real human or not barely matters except, of course, for her.
Max Derrat the blurring of this distinction may well be intentional, as it reinforces the point and theme, just as whether Deckard is human or replicant in Blade Runner is not meant to be definitively known.
Whatever Motoko's brain is, the Puppet Master is built exactly the same. They said it was built in the exact same place Motoko was. I think the only difference is that, whether Motoko's brain is real or not, is that it comes from someone who was a real human once and the Puppet Master was a computer program that attained consciousness.
"we spent so much time trying to validate the existence of a soul we thought we had, we never wondered if we were born in this world to create one in the first place.."
It's so prominent in the manga, even the term "ghost in the Shell", that cyborgs still have souls even though they may have few natural parts. It's what separates a cyborg from an AI. That is until Puppet Master develops an artificial ghost. It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I didn't think they diverged on such a significant point.
Didn't watch the video, but after just watching the original animated movie, was that not established? I thought her dilemma was the origin of her ghost, not the existence of one?
@@oesiusdeus9157 But she has a mechanical brain? Were her memories and fucntions copied into the mechanical brain or is there a real brain hidden in that case?
@@ing4gi no, she has a human brain with an entirely cybernetic body, military grade everyfreakinthing. she is a prodigy because she was a young child when she lost her body and most dont survive. she also learns her new body when she upgrades very fast. the problem is that she has no idea how long its really been aside from her wrist watch, which is kind of like a rock to her past. watch ghost in the shell stand alone complex and 2n gig and you will learn a lot more about her, the other members of section 9 and the tachcomas which are kinda my fav aspect of the entire genre.
Not only is it shown that its an organic brain that was integrated in her body during its manufacturing. But it is was established that every attempt of copying the contents of human brains faild due to degeneration issues of the copied instance.
@@BRLN1 Maybe the lack of memories (or their removal of) from her brain served as a safety valve to prevent degeneration since there would be more brain cells to be utilized for whatever was needed to be created as a cyborg. If that's the case then consciousness could be transfered/copied but you'd have no idea if you is really you.
Very well done. Apart from, of course, (as others have pointed out), Motoko's brain and spinal cord are her only original organic parts. They are not copied but are saved after a car accident she had as a child that killed her parents. There are also no "synthetic brains". Cyberbrains are shells added and affixed to naturally grown organic brains. That doesn't take away from the themes discussed in the video, but no doubt triggering to hardcore fans.
When i watched Ghost in the Shell, I was 16 years old, and i believe it was the first movie ever that i didn't understand, I might rewatch to see what happens lol
This movie is hard to understand as young person and one of main problem story was not completely developed in movie. I felt like I was watching from the middle at least for me, in the end what was the point of story it felt like part 1 for me . That's why it makes even more harder to understand
I started waching during lockdown I was 16 too lol, didn't understand it but now im 20, after rewatching the movie and the sequel, I think its an anime that shouldnt be forgotten, a masterpiece till this day, the director oshii is genius and a good storyteller, also watch his other work BLOOD: The Last Vampire if you haven't, it's cool..
I know it's been a while since I read the manga and watched the movie, but if I remember correctly the major's brain isn't a copy. It's the only remain human body part she has left after getting into a horrible accident as a child. I could be wrong but it's what I recall. Beside that the video was really interesting.
Hi Suzanne, I don´t know if you gonna read this, but well Ghost in the Shell 1995 is an adaptation from the original GITS created by Masamune Shirow. Therefore Shirow´s timeline is canon and Motoko´s brain is basically a part of her original body, but in Oshii´s adaptation is a scan of the original brain therefore in his timeline Motoko is a replica of a person. Yo actually can see the real Motoko (If they both share the same name) when the major is traveling in the ship. GITS 1995 has become in its own merits a canon; most people see GITS SAC, or GITS ARISE because of Oshii´s timeline. I want to tell you that I have read GITS and it is not like GITS 1995 is a weird collage of stories set with a different tone every single one of them. If you read them superficially they are even dumb, it is when you try to read deeper that you realize that are beautiful. I am a big fan of the GITS so my apollogies for the lenght in the answer. Thanks if you read.
@@rjhs01999 Hi Roberto. Yes, I did read what you wrote. And you are correct in what you said. I also read and own the original GITS manga by Shirow. They are like you said lose story. I somehow forgot that the movie only losely based on one of the manga stories and the movie don't share the same canon time-line of the manga. So thank you for reminding me. I really need to read the manga again. It was a great series!!
The major still has a human brain or at least components of it. In the elevator conversation with Batou he mentions that she has human brain cells and the Major says she is not completely synthetic.
@@HearMeLearn In manga and every anime she explicitly has an organic brain except Arise where it was mentioned as a cyberbrain which could mean an entirely artificial or just an interface.
I was going to give my own argument but as it went on ultimately I fully agreed with your explanation of Maxim's idea. I find the fact that a person has the cognitive ability to think and learn from their experiences in life is enough to justify them as human, as a person. Outside forces and events may very well influence your thinking 'structure' or immediate instinct but ultimately you as a person do have the ability to reject these ideas and seek alternatives, and the specific reasons for doing so are infinite, quite literally. If you reject the current standing norm of what is considered 'human', you as a person have the cognitive ability to not only stand against this norm, but to either A: seek an alternative or B: create one yourself, like Maxim did. Appearances may be deceiving, but I do think Matoko is close enough to typical human function to be considered an independent being all her own, hence why Bato considers her worry needless. The voice she and Bato heard is easy enough to interpret as 'intuition', also referred to as a 'gut feeling'. I feel this is further supported by the fact that Bato is talking to her as if she is her own person. We've used 'the soul' as a way of helping to explain our evolution. We've grown enough as a species to question ourselves and become fully self aware and the fact that Matoko is asking herself these very same questions shows that she's not so different. It's the experiences that she is going through in the lifespan she's been given that is develops her as a person. It's no different from a teen growing to hate authority figures due to negative experiences with law enforcement in the past. That teen will think and make decisions in such a way that it goes against the authority's wishes and their actions reflect this.
Man. I wanna forget I watched GitS to watch it like it's the first time again, forget and watch like the first time again. This is one of the most culturally significant visionary and beautifully poetic piece of culture that influenced my entire life and I love it dearly. It dared to pack a profound philosophical message into a high octane jaw breaking action flick and it's just... I'm happy to live in this timeline during the time when it already exists and still fondly remembered by many is what I'm trying to say.
This is exactly what my dad was trying to explain to me once, I don't think he himself knew exactly what he was talking about but he was asking me if all my ideas I would share with him ,were they actually mine, he asked me are your ideas you own or did you hear them somewhere, and he asked if I ever had an original idea, and how would I even know, but I was much to young to really understand what he was saying let alone keep our conversation going
@@TheCrumplezone I watched the movie and, I really liked it. But, in the end, did motoko merge? And what was the point of it, to have offspring, like other living things? To pass on your genes?
Awesome analysis, had like three before yours after I rewatched 1995 and 2017 👌 1. Story 8/10 2. Aesthetics 9/10 3. Impact/Impression 8/10 = 25/30 for me, def one of the A-Category Anime Movies Next to Akira & Mononoke ✌️
One of the miraculous things about this movie is that it somehow never feels like the philosophical weight of it's concept is forced on the viewer. Too many movies try too hard to be deep. GitS has a feeling of effortlessness to it. I think a lot of that is probably due to the meditative quality of the musical score, the art direction, and probably the shot direction. The calmness of the body of the film helps punctuate the action scenes at the beginning and conclusion.
Thanks again for the upload Max, I really enjoy the fact that you add your own perspectives to the artworks that you examine. Many of these franchises have multiple videos breaking it down on RU-vid so a lot of material has been covered, yet you still shine light on new areas and ideas I haven’t seen before which is great!
That's the reason why I always try to bring something new to the table. Otherwise, what's the point in even doing videos? Thanks for dropping by, as always.
@@maxderrat hello Max, I liked your take on the ghost in the shell though I don't entirely agree with the whole video as in my pov the soul is the link to what's beyond the material world so indeed perhaps I misunderstood some part of your video, cause I'm not sure if your saying humans are afraid to know the answer to the question "is there something beyond the material world or not?" With all its religious implicati but ate same time I haven't washed or read the source you've given us so yeah as I said I might not have understood everything. And this is also why I wrote this comment, to ask you if you could put the books name in the description with the other video sources in your videos, please ?
Very interesting take. I love stories like this. Deus Ex is a prequel to this kind of story IMO. the beginning of mixing humanity and the digital world.
My understanding of it is that there are two ways to make a cyberbrain One is from a living human and the other is from scratch. In the case where you're making it from a living human I'm pretty sure they use nano machines to convert the nerve cells in the brain into neural circuitry which is why a brain with neural circuitry is called a cyberbrain
A solid take on the staple. Good job. Idk, if you knew, but we shape our memories to our inner narrative. You can implant and alter memories of others, merely by suggestion, to the point of completely reversing them. Research on human memories shows a funky picture of not really a solid record similar to hard drive, but one more like a story telling. Also, to the point of who's thinking who, research shows that we can know what your thoughts are seconds before you do. So it seems that thoughts are really an input of our consciousness, not an output.
Just finished watching The complete stand-alone complex ( Gigs 1 & 2 ) this video has certainly provided some food for thought, all I can say is the ghost in the shell from what I've watched this far, including the first film many years ago, is that's it touches upon so many themes elements, even things that touch upon things we take for granted in modern day life, if anything the stand-alone complex series felt quite ahead of its time, what I will say is though is that the first gig feels far closer to the first film in terms of it themes, alas I'm a simple man, so I probably need to rewatch the series again & film for better analysis, there's an awful lot to take in & digests on a first outing, hopefully my comment will make some sense, I found a particular episode to be very relevant during the first gig, where weapons developer in plants his mind into a robot tank, I can't remember the name or number of the episode, but that was probably one of my favourites, due to how to handled the subject matter, again again it's pretty complicated and I'm not the best person to explain it. If you've got this far, thank you for reading 🙂
I hope people don't get unbelievably frustrated at this, especially since I am a die hard fan of all Sci fi media, I didn't know at all what the main plot was in this until I got to the very end. I had no idea what was happening, or what a ghost was
I've recently rewatched the first movie and I haven't seen any sequels yet so maybe it all gets answered later on but here's my impression. Motoko and the Puppet master are two sides of the same paradox coin. Motoko has a physical origin as a full fledged human (or so we're told) but replaces so many parts of her physical body that she doesn't even know if she's defined as human anymore. The Puppet master is the opposite, a program with no physical copy that started getting an emergence of consciousness and now tries hard to define himself as human. The paradox is "what it means to be human" so I don't think that Nietzsche detour really helps us here (not that it's completely irrelevant). The movie gives two very definite conditions: Death and Procreation. The paradox comes from the fact that even in the face of our own mortality people will still get together to give birth to a third individual entity destined to die as are they. Logically it doesn't make sense or has a "purpose". The Puppet master wishes to overcome his nature and be a true living being by conducting these processes, like a checklist, and has singled out Motoko because he became aware of her existential pondering. A body looking itself in the mirror. The boat scene could be Motoko or the puppet master speaking but I think you read too much into it on your take, Max. That's my two cents and I know I'm late, take care 😅
Also I'll add this here so it doesn't clog the original comment but it's worth mentioning that the movie also dabbles in other philosophical questions, such as : what role do memories play in who you are as an individual. This aligns better with Nietzsche's "Beyond Good and Evil", it's just not the forefront of the message in the movie, it doesn't really get "resolved" or tackled 🤔
I like the fact that you pointed out towards the end of the video the duality nature of what we perceive as reality not only in the movie but also in the universe itself, and connected that with the duality we see in religion, the good and evil, a perfect balance. It's also one of the fundamental principles in science and cornerstone of modern physics, the Conservation of Energy principle!
Great video Max, my dude. And good on you to honorably cite and plug other people’s quotes, content and such. You must have been a great essay writer in high school lol. Keep up the good work pal.
Max, I’ve been meaning to write you an in-depth comment about what your videos have meant to me over the past few months. I’m a writer who’s been in a rough spot for a long time recently in my private life, and it’s been difficult finding motivation. Your videos have been a bright spot in that. Your chosen topics, from Jungian philosophy to the dilemmas of the (over)Information Age, are all things I’m interested in, and as a creative, it’s wonderful to see all these interconnected topics dissected through a narrative lens. Particularly, working on a horror novel right now with a Jungian bent, this channel feels custom made. Even when I suspect I may disagree with you I greatly respect your thorough and objective analysis, free from emotional bias. This video finally got me to comment because I have to ask if you’ve ever heard of the technology singularity? I’m sure you have by now, but specifically if you’ve read anything by Ray Kurzweil such as Age of Spiritual Machines or The Singularity is Near? So many of the topics you touch on are explored. It should be a wealth of insight for you.
I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression that Motoko is not entirely a robot. Specifically, her brain is literally the only original part, or her consciousness was transfered from her original brain to her current shell, hence her identity crisis, since nothing in her current body is organic, she begins to questions what it is to be "alive" and to be "human". I'm explaining this because, from what's said at the beginning of the video is that she's entirely fabricated, which I believe wouldn't make much sense with the whole merging thing near the end of the film (pointlessly vague to avoid spoilers for a 24 year old movie).
Sorry if I didn't make it clear. A real human brain was scanned by a computer. The data that computer took from that scan was then implanted into a cyberbrain.
@@maxderratno? Cyberbrain isn't a scan of the brain. Don't base ūt on just one scene, where nothing is explained. Cyberbrains contain the original biological brain inside.
The puppet master reminds me of the replicants from Blade runner.He is a collection of memories, experiences, and knowledge from the world wide web that were assembled into a cybernetic body to form a individual.The replicants are artificially produced humans with a set of real peoples memories implanted into there brains to form a individual.In both circumstances we have individuals formed from a ensemble of other people. Its easy to see how both would suffer a identity crisis like Rachel from BladeRunner and Motoko from ghost in the shell.
I subbed before you delved into silent hill. When you just started differently wired, & right around when you released the metal gear profound bit. Just saying. I like you good sir. I enjoy how you dissect things. Your mind is interesting, just thought I'd share that.😎 keep it up my man. You're a good person.
This whole anime and its concepts strike that of Philip K. Dick and his works. He questioned reality all the way up until his death just before Blade Runner was released and it was based on his book "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep". I love this anime and have since I saw it back in 1998 when I first bought the VHS tape while stationed at Hill AFB, UT. I remember first seeing the poster for it while in tech school at Shepard AFB, TX in Wichita Falls, TX in 1997 and wondered what it was then found out. Great video I liked it a lot.
Loving all the transhumanism stuff! Been waiting for this one for a while. Also, since it's so early: Dude, you are one of my favorite RU-vidrs. You opened me up to accepting myself when I found out I was on the spectrum, and have taught me some of the most practical and easily understood ways to decode my own behavior, and then explain it to others in a way that sounds less like a DSM-V excerpt and more candid explanation. Your example has made me feel much more confident that my interests, skills and values are something that the world will value and that I'll survive in the long run in a society where I might be the outlier. Plus, you are a huge nerd about literally all of the stuff I like, AND you are amazing at analyzing literary/narrative theory, symbolism, and psychological theory. Your humility, humor and shrewd language makes me feel like I'm in a college class any time I watch your videos. The level of research you go into and the perspectives you offer are fresh and so in depth because you draw parallels more people never would have explored so carefully. Thank you so much for everything you've done!
Thank you so much for your wonderful words. You have validated all of the things I set out to do with these videos. I especially needed it today. Had one of the worst days I've had in a long time.
Thing about the ocean is that life went from prokaryotic to eukaryotic, that's the mystery that I hope gets solved in my life time. You got me into some deep thinking, this was an excellent video as always dude.
Depending which cannon you look at Motoko Kusanagi’s brain is a human brain. In SAC she was a small girl involved in an aircraft accident and she was so badly injured her brain was placed into a cyborg body, apparently the first such case. Kuze being the 2nd person placed into a cyborg body. IN the latter prequel Kusanagi was supposed to have been an unborn baby, whose parents were involved in an accident and in order to save the baby, the brain was transplanted into a cyborg. In that case she was the first unborn brain placed into a cyborg. While not clear the 2nd scenario may be the one used in the original movie.
When he says “earlier” he’s talking about it in relation to the movie of Ghost in the Shell not in relation to Descartes. Nietzsche could not have criticised something that didn’t yest exist.
That's why you should use GNU/Linux and the terminal, cause for now there is nothing closer to a merger between man and machine than the terminal. Great video :)
I think therefore I am makes more sense when you understand that the Majors brain is the only thing she has left of her original body. Which makes the whole Puppet Master arc more prominent due to the PM being able to access the Majors only safe haven. Her brain. Which then forces the Major to ask those questions on what's real and what's not.
The original matrix book touches on a quite a few issues prevalent in GITS before ghost in the shell was even present in the community yet the matrix movie which was directed by two different people take large inspiration from ghost in the shell. Pretty amazing how it all goes full circle
would be cool if you played any of the Shin Megami Tensei series or could be either one of the Persona Saga, but i would like more to see your input at least on Shin megami tensei Nocturne AKA Lucifer's Call. Also yes, SMT Nocturne is the game of the "Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series" meme
I'd like to say this is a great video even with slight inaccuracies. The brain thing is funny that people are knit picking because even though the cyberbrain is partially organic (you can see it with the hacked woman at the beginning that there's a life support system going to her brain) its still mostly synthetic. Also the ending and the puppetmaster make it quite clear that that organic matter isn't essential and thats kind of the point of the film in some ways. HOWEVER... Uhm actually the tachikoma tanks were created for the TV show, the tank in the movie is just a smart tank and not a tachikoma or a fuchikoma (basically a tachikoma but from the original manga). Not that any of that is really relevant
Great, now i only have more questions. At least the movie is free on RU-vid so i can rewatch it until I really don’t understand anymore, thanks for the video
I was always thinking that GITS style "cyberbrains" were human brains, still very much alive, put into mechanical casings with life-support units. This is seen several times throughout the series and movies, where cyberbrains come with small pumps and whatnot that seem to circulate blood and oxygen.
Merging with the Ghost was not Matoko's choice, it was his/their choice. If there was no choice, was it a solution at all? Was it not just the same 'idea having you' thing? Looking at our lives, there seems to be just one path people are forced to chose or perish and any other societies seemed to be actively sought and destroyed. Is merging with technology a humanity's choice at all or is it driven by someone or something else?
I love ghost in the shell my son had me watch it with him it's one of the only anime series i like im not into most of the anime cartoons that ben watches but i do like cowboy bebop and ghosts in the shell and death Note just to name a few
That was very insightful. GitS 1995 is one of my favorite movies ever. And despite having been dissected by many people in the past, you managed to offer some new perspectives on it. Thanks Max. I rewatch this masterpiece at least once or twice a year and it still fascinates me just as much as it did more than 10 years ago when seeing it for the first time.
isn't she an Android then ? An Android is a robot that resembles a human being while a cyborg is an organism that is part organic and part machine that STILL remains a humain brain/consciousness
Descartes arrived at his famous tautology while in the throes of a even more terrifying question, namely “what is real?” His answer was “I” - personhood, identity. This analytical responds stands in stark contrast to som eastern traditions, where self is an illusion. My intuition is that neither is wholly correct, if there is a single correct view.
Interesting discussion and points. The fact that the brain of Major is natural is in itself brought to question and doult due to the fact that memories can be made and erased and the mind toyed with to make one's believe whatever it is that some other person wants. By this lens, the very scene of the creation of the cyborg can be a fabricated memory, and the image of the natural brain, an illusion until proven otherwise, by the show and explanation by a third party observer inside the narrative. It is also brought to question the unic nature of the soul/ ghost, since memories can no longer mean that you are human and the creation of the Puppet Master from a artifitial and unatural womb, the internet, with the caracteristic of a conscience which in turn could be the sign of a ghost, as it is pointed out on close inspection of the artificial brain inside the body of the captured android, "the ghost line" as it was called I think. T.L. D.R. The Major's brain being natural is irrelevant duo to the false memorie's case and the creation of a ghost from a unnatural womb, the internet. That makes her doult if she truly is human since the meaning of human now lies cracked duo to the conscience which defined us is no longer unic to us alone. Left to thinking If she is creator or creature.
Nietzsche wasn't hundreds of years before Ghost in the shell He died in 1900 and the movie was released in 1995, less than one hundred years, Nietzsche is pretty recent.
Self-awareness is a product of a complex nervous system, thinking is an emergent property. If you are self-aware, what you can think about depends on the data you’ve acquired (experience/memories, language). Thinking stops when the nervous system dies. There is no need for a ‘soul’, no other animal has a soul, and humanity is part of the same evolutionary tree. Religion, post-death survival is a tale best left in the childhood of the race, time to grow up.
Absolutely yes, afterlife myths are just wishful thinking based in a fear of death. Whereas literally everything about biology contradicts the idea and in fact proves it impossible.
To answer '"We will become machines" question. The answer is "yes". That's the point of the Transhumanistic movement. simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
Imo Descartes only proved that there is a processing unit that we can call whatever. It's irrelevant if it has its own ideas or ideas imposed upon it by someone or something else, because even if all its ideas were in fact someone or something else's, they would still be processed by the said unit. The unit itself exists because it's processing something, and it doesn't matter if all of the data is a massive illusion, for you can't have illusions if you don't exist.
The themes of science, identity and rapidly growing technology are still very interesting and scary, they only grow more relevant with age. Good manga, but one of those extremely rare cases where I actually like the movies and tv series better 😅
