I’m the Distiller for a small operation in Country Victoria, Australia. I macerate all my ‘harder’ botanicals for 16hrs O/night in 40% GNS, and the true aromatics, citrus, rose petals, elderflower etc are vapour infused. This gives a full flavoursome, round body & mouthfeel, with bright citrusy / floral highlights. Lately I have also been playing with maceration temperatures, leaving the charge macerating in 70C overnight, this really brings out bigger, fuller juniper and coriander characteristics, Love your channel, Cheers. Nick
@@peterdavis4816 I macerate whole, because when you crush the Juniper & Coriander, you get too much variation in each batch, it’s easier to maintain some consistency when used whole. I believe it’s too hard to crush to exactly the same mix of particle sizes, each time you grind. Cheers
@@nicholasscleave thanks for this comment Nick sounds like a great method, I also wonder if crushing the juniper /corriander may release some unwanted bitterness, macerating whole seems like the better idea as you say.
Have you tried comparing macerated and non-macerated gins? I found that it made no detectable difference. You're boiling the hell out of all the botanicals in the pot anyway, so it makes no sense that you'd get anything more out of them by macerating. Vapor infusing of course is very different as you're not boiling off the more volatile elements that you can in the pot. I find that vapor infusing certain botanicals can give a brighter flavour and certainly more aroma.
You should do a run of your dream gin. Oranges in the column and everything else macerated in the pot. I don't think I've ever seen somebody split themselves between two infusion methods.
Hi Jesse, good video. I have a slightly lazier way of doing this. I typically start with a birdwatchers wash. On a 25-ish liter batch, I use 20g juniper, 10g coriander, 15g sweet orange peel and 10g elderberries. I vapour infuse, but straight from the birdwatchers. Single run only. I run reflux (aiming for 80-ish abv). My gin basket is right below the dephleg. Works pretty well for me, flavours are not that in your face but pleasant for drinking neat or with tonic. Wifey loves it...
I've always prefered macerated gin. my current favorite method involves macerating enough ingredients for the whole batch in 1ltr of high proof neutral, then running that in a small lab-glass type rig with a fairly short vapour-parh) it makes an EXTREMELY ginny gin concentrate! which is then mixed into my (proofed down in advance) neutral. it's not as complicated as it sounds, makes a beautiful gin, and my single malts don't end up full of bloody juniper!
Botanical I add are Lemon zest Orange zest Juniper Cardamon Cumin Star Annese Cinamon And fresh mint for that fresh summery hit with the Citrus (Citrus and mint are all fresh rest are dried)
Great video Jesse! I just made my first Gin using the gin basket method, and it was perfect. The crisp and clean flavors of all the herbs came through. Maybe you need to play with the recipe more to convince yourself that it will satisfy your tastes. This method is easier to do and takes less herbs to do it.
Did you crush juniper and hard botanicals? I have tried it a couple of times and the flavours have been insipid. I can see that with the most suitable botanicals it could produce an aromatic, elegant gin
@@larsnewbould456 I did just that, but for a 6 gallon run you don’t need much in the column. 1/2 oz of mixed botanicals is more than enough. You will have to experiment with it to get the taste you like.
@@brucekrisko4364 hi, that's interesting. You used a column still with basket? I just did a little experiment, adjusting a small recipe I had to 1.1 litres., then put everything in the Air Still. I put two little muslin bags in the basket: one with more juniper and coriander, one with rose petals and elderflower. The floral flavours were soft and fragrant. It was for my wife, who loves it.
You got it exactly right. :) A maceration gives you a "heavier" Gin with a good round mouthfeel. A vapor-infused Gin will be "lighter" and more subtle on the citrus and orange notes. It's really a matter of taste if you want a heavier Gin or a light one where all notes of your spices are more in the background and the nose is getting more fruits. :) My recipe is somewhat like yours but I skip the angelica seeds. Happy distilling.
I have watched your videos for so long and finally i'll aply to school what teach alcohol making. In Finland distilling is illegal if you don't have lisences so it's almost impossiple to do this kind of things at home but maybe after i have done my school and i have experience from Job where i can make whiskey etc. After that i'll be able to make my own company and start producing own drinks 👌🏼
I find anise flavours, grains of paradise and bitter orange (curacao) are better vapour infused. You can increase the amounts of other botanicals and put them in the gin basket, then adjust where you take your heart start and finish to round it out.
Enjoyed the video, thanks, read through comments and can’t find what ABV you distilled the macerated and the vapour infused at, as in final product ABV before proofing down to 45%
@@Kalanchoe1 I basically made a Coffee Shine, I ran it through the coffee beans and Vanilla and it infused the coffee with a slight vanilla latte flavor that carried over. I have also tried distilling coffee grounds which turned out very well however it took a lot of coffee.
Very interesting! Makes sense. My favourite commercial gin (Copperwave - Hunter Distillery) about individually distilling or extracting the botanicals. I wonder if this is what they mean or if they do single botanical runs and blend afterwards??
have you ever considered using backset from a macerated run to to retain the flavors and heavy oils with the solids removed ( maybe to Proof down before going in to the boiler) might be hard to control.
Could you add a portion of macerated infusion to a new wash after it has had its strip run? If we didn't have a small still to run on just one 8 gallon still.
I could even see splitting a ratio of the same ingredient between basket and pot, for instance dialing in the orange to a spot between the "bright" and the "cooked" flavors, much like mixing toasted and untoasted versions of the same spice.
Agreed tried a couple of runs with maceration vs infusion last year and the peels and cardamom for me are now infused and the rest is soaked for 24 hours
It would have been hilarious when you apologise for the neighbours noise when you did the jump cut you came back all covered in blood and just kept on talking.
I've always thought of the difference between steam distilled and macerated botanicals as perfume vs incense, not that one is smokey just the overall presence and duration. I would love to see you steam distill / macerate a whole range of botanicals(at least all the common ones used in gin) individually and then mix to taste, but that would be an enormous amount of work.
Hi Jesse I've tried both of those techniques but have a third option which I prefer. I make a grain mash, put it into the still in reflex mode and hang a muslin bag with the botanicals under the column. I go with a single spirit run (no stripping run) and it comes out at 90+%. It's all down to personal taste I guess. Really enjoying the channel...thanks
Awesome as always Jesse! Glad I watched to the end for your conclusion. My rule of thumb is seeds and roots in maceration and peels and petals in vapour path (whether in basket or hanging above pot). Going to give your recipe a try 👍
I settled on this process which is very close to yours as I have an air still and a 50L pot/column. I found splitting the harder and softer ingredients produced a better result (for those I make it for, I dont like gin that much but love making it). The harder ingredients like seeds all go in the stripped spirit for a day to steep. The softer ingredients go into a "basket". Basically I don't add a bit of copper packing and put the botanicals there free, does the job. I found if I put the softer ingredients into steep they would lose their impact and freshness and would get this bitter taste, and visa versa for seeds. So recipe I just did. Macerated in 30l 45% stripped spirit. 25g juniper 8g Black Pepper 15g Coriander 15g Greed cardamom Soft in basket 10 Lime leaves 2 medium oranges zest
Sounds delicious! Love the lime leaf idea. Are they kefir lime or ones you picked from a tree? Also, what volume of finished product do you end the run, or do you judge based on ABV of the cut?
I know Bobby's (a Dutch gin producer), one of my favorite Gins, macerates and vapour infuses. Iirc they macerate dry spices, and vapour infuse fresh botanicals (in their case also Lemongrass).
x12 (makes 3+ gallons) 405.6 fl oz of 80 proof vodka / neutral - 3.169 Gallons 6 oz of juniper 1.3 oz of coriander seeds 3.4 oz of orange zest 0.22 oz of cardamom 3.2 oz of angelica seeds
You should try a rhubarb and ginger gin please. Barley and hops George did one, where I think he used a straight infused gin (no pre-second distillation maceration) and then post-distillation maceration for rhubarb, ginger and sugar (or simple syrup). Wonder if you did this with a macerated gin (and maybe cassia or complementary spice), distilled it then post maceration of rhubarb and ginger. I'm still experimenting with creating a small batch that doesn't have too much ginger or cooked juniper flavour. So many variables, thoughts?
Fascinating mate! Not the expert, (by a long shot, but I know what i like) but I would lean to similar conclusions to you Anything large and bold like Cardamom, Juniper, Coriander etc and (for my taste) any peppers I would macerate - but the florals and delicates as I call them (Citrus, Hops if you use them, elderflowers, hibiscus, or any blossoms etc., ) I would think vapour would be kinder to them The reason your orange zest might taste more marmaladey (?) is you've basically boiled it, which is basically what you do when you make marmalade (albeit with a crapload of sugar) - whereas if you use vapour you are just using the ability of it to act like a solvent taking the essence without cooking it (as much) For fun try some blood orange zest and a bit of lemon with maybe just a smidge of black pepper corns (Pepper can compliment a flavour - look at strawberries and black pepper) For a good Oriental gin try a bit of Schezwan and/or Red pepers and if you can get it Japanese cherry blossoms (Sakura powder)
I have Arizona Cypress trees on my property. A friend and I made 5 gallons of Gin from its berries and coriander alone by maturation and it came out very nice. It turned out at 174 proof. I make what I call a Cypress Mule with it uncut using 3 ounces of gin and 5 ounces of ginger beer. 2 mules is nice 4 mules will put you on your ass. Love your content
Why not distill at 12-15% first time around, then first distill to 40-45% then add gin ingredients and distill second time? Like your channel, keep it coming!
MY MAN! Chasing down something that you enjoy at every level. I’ve only done macération, thank you so much to take the time to put all this together. I’ve always wanted to try vapour. I might safe my money and keep playing with with what I have. It would be nice to talk just a little bit about the History of each spirit. KEEP CHASING THE PASSIONS BROTHER, you are doing an amazing job!
I’ve been playing around with fig leaves in my gin and I like it. It’s also free (I have 50 trees) and it tastes of cinnamon and vanilla. I also did a fig leaf (bath tub) liquor… that was great, you could even taste figs in it.
I made Odin's gin a couple of times with great success. Thanks for that Jesse! Some other great flavours I've tried and am fond of is grains of paradise and hibiscus flower (great for colouring your gin pink), and makrut lime leaves (the ones they use in Thai curries).
This is a guy with a still spirits air still, I look out for 3 channels, and scale everything down to 4 litres and I'm having great success. Stick to the process, rewards fab cheers J. ps I don't use that turbo dung anymore X
I vary my botanicals, but I crush the juniper and coriander, then macerate all the botanicals in 90% neutral for about 2 weeks. This makes a very dark liquid which I then redistil in my 1 litre stovetop still to create a clear concentrated essence. Then I find around 40-50 ml of essence to 1 litre of neutral makes a very nice gin.
Hello Jesse, I found this video very interesting - I make gin using both methods at the same time balancing maceration between vapour depending on the flavor profile I want. What I have to say is I always macerate the Juniper and when I make my SinnerGin (cinnamon flavour) I always vapour infuse the Cinnamon. I do use a 100% copper still with a 80L boiler, am wondering what difference that could make to the booze? P.S. I never use citrus in my gin's just a personal taste issue :-)
I'm waiting for my new 4" gin basket to arrive. Can you give me your opinion on placing it before my pre condenser to reflux it thru several times or after the pre condenser. If you don't have a opinion on it then I will try both then let you know my opinion. Love your channel
I wonder if you could do a blended gin from the two (or from that idea of various single-botanical-infused spirits) to dial down a flavor profile, like they do with blended whiskeys? Cool video, I'm sad that I live in the Protestant Nordics where home-distillation brings the local lawman with a truncheon, not with a cup in his hand.
Some gin baskets are offset, and condensed infused vapour will collect in the bottom of them, wherein you either have it piped back to the boiler so you'd end up with a product similar to yours, or you have a valve at the bottom and periodically drain it into a collection vessel. It would be interesting to drain such a setup, see what that tastes like, and possibly add some of it back in to the condensed product gin after you are finished distilling. I imagine it would collect a lot of the heavy, and oily, compounds that you find in a maceration, but don't find in large quantities, or any quantity, in a vapour infusion because they aren't volatile enough.
I don't think that stuff is drinkable. It's not even distilled. It's pretty similar to the lab apparatus known as a sohxlet extractor which is well known to effectively strip everything a sample can give, but that will definitely include non-volatile and colored compounds too. Personally, I dislike offset heads and think the simpler inline setups are superior precisely because you don't have to bother with the offset condensate nor do you loose it's contribution of aromatics.
@@MrJhchrist Probably not drinkable on its own, too concentrated. But it would be no different than what is present in a strictly macerated gin (undistilled), just not as diluted. Which is why if you wanted a stronger gin after vapour infusion, you could add that some of that condensate back into your distillate, in small quantities at a time, to taste. This is where I think an offset gin basket works in your favour if you want to try different things. You get a lighter vapour infusion if that is all you want, drain the condensate and toss it. But it also gives you the option to use that condensate to strengthen your gin, after the run, if the vapour infusion isn't enough. Then on top of that you also have the option of having the condensate drain down into the boiler while it is still running if you want to go that route instead, like an inline setup. You will need some extra parts if you want to run it like it is inline, of course, but you can do it. To top it all off, running it in any 3 of those ways, it is easier to clean your still afterwards, than having just an inline gin basket, because the oils won't be draining down through your column.
@@StillBehindTheBench Valid points, and highlighting my personal opinion. I just don't believe in compounded or macerated gin. According to my personal rule book if it's not distillate, it's not gin. Which I recognize isn't globally true. The cleaning point is definitely true. An alternative that works as well is the use of a small maybe dedicated thumper. Botanicals in the thumper work just like botanicals in a boiler, and a botanical vapor chamber above the thumper can't drip back down into the main boiler. Of course you gotta take the thumper into accord if you have a preferred abv still charge because it will affect that curve.
@@StillBehindTheBench Also meant to say that the offset gin basket with drain returning to boiler is effectively the same as a purifier in some scotch stills. The ability to play with that application is probably as useful as any gin application and it's something not often seen in hobby sized stills.
I don't plan on doing distillation, but I love the content. I think I might have to do a video on adding flavors in Primary fermentation versus secondary fermentation for my meads.
I wonder if you macerate the botanicals then fish them out placing them in the steam basket then distilling i wonder if it will change the flavour profile again?
Sucks living in a "free" state That was prevalent in bootlegging. I can home brew wine or beer to my hearts content but straight illegal to distill at home
Hey do you know of any forums that could help me in find a good still for my friends and I to purchase. We are interested in getting into distillation and we are unfamiliar with what would be a good investment.
i'm aging a corn/rye run with toasted hickory using ultra violet and I want to add local honey. would you add the honey in your cuts or would you add it at full proof and then cut?
What about the third way of doing it, macerate everything and straight into the distilling, no waiting. By rights is should give you a taste somewhere in between.
Can you add a video on how to fix you going to fast with distilling please I tried to distill and was to greedy and it tastes like dog **** please help
Distilling you can also macerate and vapour infuse in same run. We macerate juniper,angleica root,.orris root, corriander seed and in vapour basket fresh cut lemon, oranges. The vapou basket also works in this type of run with delicate herbs that give a bitter flavour when macerte such as fresh mint, rose petals, camamile.
Good video, and thanks for doing it. Hope your all safe and enjoying yourselves across the ditch mate. Now you have a T500 system as well I have to ask a question on vapour infusion. The T500 system I don't feel allows for the botanical basket use, yet it does have a basket available, it screws onto the bottom of the column which I would've thought counter productive with how it works... It also sits inside the lid and I don't see how there's enough head room for that. Only way I could see the T500 system working for vapour infusion is a botanical basket inside the column at the top and the saddles would have to be loaded after that, to keep it at the top. I've researched and I'm seeing some limitations of the T500. Looks to be an ok entry level but quite limited with what you can do with it when you compare to others systems.
