"The Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines is the industry bible for communication design and illustration professionals." This is a quote from The Graphic Artist Guild website. They should be your first source when looking for pricing information. My tip: If possible, give the client time to suggest the financial possibilities first. It's not uncommon for them to propose a much higher fee than the artist had in mind.
Yeah it's brilliant that we get to listen to a REAL teacher rather than a fake teacher...oftentimes teachers go for a teaching qualification after getting their degree and have no real life experience. Marshall is a wealth of knowledge!
Oh, what a coincidence, just last night I pulled out my copy of Leonardo's Notes on Painting from the depths of my wardrobe after forgetting about it for almost 13 years. It's pretty great to time travel 500 years back and be able to remind yourself that artists have been distracted by life and procrastinating since the dawn of time 😂
SVS LEARN has a lot of stuff on illustrating books/covers, negotiating contracts, agents, royalties and loads more. Their classes are mainly geared towards illustrating childrens books but im sure a lot of information could be useful even if your target market is different. It's a great resource!
They were the first that came to my mind too, they have paid content but also their free podcasts here on youtube are very insightful on these matters.
After taking my first online mentored class I started an animation collaboration with 4 mates of that class. At some point we were in 3 different continents, we met in person after a couple years of working together. Unfortunately we never finished the animation but we became great friends. Paid work has come out of that. But the best outcome for me was getting married to one of those guys.
Hey there, About royalties, contracts, and such: would it be possible to invite someone on the show? It’s a really interesting topic and I think a lot of people don’t know how to negotiate when you’re not familiar with the rules. Would be cool! Thanks!
Truthfully, by the time your art is good enough to be worried about whether to negotiate royalties & what type of terms you want in your contracts, you should be able to afford an attorney or agent to represent you & help you negotiate. Virtually no well-known author will give you royalties - much less a publisher - if you're simply doing cover art. As for how much you can charge, the simple answer: as much as you can get
Hey gang! I thought that this was an interesting episode. Many people seem to have similar questions revolving around growth as an artist. These questions tend to be very subjective, but I think that a major factor in the frequency of these questions is related to the way many of us are educated. I can only speak for the U.S. I know there are other countries like Finland that have much more successful models. Traditional education in the US generally places an emphasis on providing the correct answer. In my experience, there is very little (if any) attention placed on the process of inquiry and exploration throughout education. Instead of cultivating curiosity and critical thinking we are inundated with countless facts that we are expected to memorize and regurgitate. I think that it is important to recognize that the standardized pedagogies of formal education tend to engrain in many students the notion that there is a correct answer or line of thinking. Anything other than the correct answer is wrong and often condemned. I think Marshall hit on something HUGE! around the 54min mark when he brought up the idea that our education as artists is a creative pursuit. This feels profound for me right now as I am learning and studying draftsmanship. In my experience there was almost 0 creativity in education, especially in high school. If creativity is not something emphasized or valued in education how do we cultivate that when it comes to art? I feel like so many beginning artists are looking for the correct approach, technique, or tool to succeed in art because the emphasis in school is predominantly on getting the correct answer. Does anyone have any thoughts on how we could possibly shift from an "answer" driven mindset to the one that focuses on creativity as a means to study, learn, and practice art? I'm personally a little tired of obsessing over the amount of hours I need to check off in order to reach that master status :p.
The only thing I can think of (besides overthrowing the education-system) is books and lectures about creativity. Of course this here podcast helps I think. Also John Cleese about creativity, Austin Kleon books and books on design thinking give structure and tools for thinking and activities that help with getting the creative juices flowing. Interpret everything to fit your situation and try stuff out while putting in the amount of work.
Bart Boonen Ha I’m with you on the education piece. I wish more attention was dedicated to cultivating curiosity and creativity. I know it is a massive undertaking to solve the problem. Thanks so much for the insightful response and resources! I’m excited to look into these books you mentioned .
Yes! I think you have hit the nail on the head. The self-taught artist, especially, is a peculiar breed, wanting to take risks, but also wanting some kind of validation. And this is totally understandable, because they are looking to break into a job market where they want to be respected for their artistic talents, but which is not really set up to nurture their learning. So they probably want certain answers to ensure they don't fall flat on their face.
When I was a kid I was fascinated by the garbage truck. Because there was alamr lights, it was always early morning before 7.30 am. And I thought it was super cool. Nice podcast once again.
I would love to hear about Marshalls book collection behind him, there looks to be some hard to get a hold of books there. Stan also seemed to have the Twilight series behind him. So I guess he could fanboy over that? :^)
Yes! Finally someone mentions William Rimmer. I found out about him in Bridgman's life drawing book where he has a little drawing of William Rimmer's take on proportion. I find the book fascinating
When I moved to California 3 years ago, I saw this new kind of garbage truck they have here, and as a 25 year old I was enraptured by THE CLAW arm. Was like a Decepticon Transformer, chomping down on the dins that were just sitting ducks with no where to hide on the curb. Then the monster robot sounds of the bins having their guts spilled into the maw of the truck... just a kind of all-consuming inescapable greed and power that must command some respect, and had me mimicking it's epic sound effects on my walk to work. So, I get it.
Hey Draftsmen you guys should collaborate with the FUTUR design company on an episode over charging and value of your art. It would be a good episode to go over. They have plenty of videos over pricing your design / art jobs
Who needs skill in painting shadows when you're so gifted as a voice actor? I could listen to an hour of just Marshall doing commercials. He's SO into it. Hell, I don't even shave and now I want those razor blades.
Absolutly cool Marshall's comment about interesting character and goals. And very good Stan's comment about what does it mean "at the same time". I'm glad I listen to this podcast. It's so refreshing.
About pricing your work, I highly suggest this very detailed and informative video : "Price Creative Work With Confidence" on The Futur youtube channel. Michael Jenda (the guest) is really an expert in his field, it's about graphic design but you can easily make a comparison with illustration / concept art work.
If you are doing a digital artwork commissioned for a client, you can also charge for the digital file, so they are buying the file of the artwork and then you can up the price as they have the rights to the file itself.
I personally really like these 'it depends' questions because i find that people like me have a lot of the same problems but all of our situations are different. So taking into account those different situations gives a lot of good insight for anyone.
love the second last question and especially the answers regarding having a second plan for art passion. For someone who chased after architecture instead of art, I have regretted that very decision but what is done is done. as Proko said, if you have a family that will still support you despite failing at what you do, then take the risk. this is a stranger's opinion and whether it holds merit is up to you
Great episode! I ran across this quote by Picasso (my virtual mentor) that relates to a question in the podcast👌🏽❤️ “Every being possesses the same amount of energy. The average person wastes theirs in a thousand ways. Personally, I channel all my energy in a single direction, namely painting, to which I sacrifice everything - you and everyone else, including myself.” ~Picasso Picasso’s drive and focus reminds me of a couple books some viewers might like. “Deep Work” by Cal Newport, and “Essentialism” by Greg McKeown. Must reads!
Brainstorm School has an online class on art business that details everything to do with pricing, networking, freelancing, marketing yourself, etc. It's taught by James Paick, highly recommend it!
It really is problametic to anwer questions like that, i also feel like the content is more interesting when you choose a subject and go deeply into it
For the person who asked about book covers, you charge for either the cover or for an extended cover which is cover and back. As far as rights, most publishers don't pay royalties. They pay right of first use, and then if a publisher in another country wants to use your cover, you get paid a fee, usually a lot less than what you were originally paid, since it's basically a licensing deal.
Love your answer about how having a plan b, c... can be a double edged sword. Now, looking back, it is absolutely true! Love your podcasts.... Thank you so much!
This is very interesting. My experiences have been expansive in regard to what I have done and am able to do within the diaspora visual communications. I am glad I ran into these.
On the pricing, it's really up to you. If you're not hurting and have confidence in the project that'll make it big. Take 50% payment and 50% royalty or 0% payment / 100% royalty. Clients usually play ball with artists unless the rate is unreasonable. Say you're a no name artist or not so good but overcharging. Or if a Publisher have a ceiling rate. If you don't care for royalties, take full payment. As far as I know, the spine is just a by product of the number of pages and should be covered by the rate for the cover. The spine, front cover, back cover and logo should be discussed in the scope of work with the client.
Book covers are usually taken from Stock Illustration. I was an Illustrator for many years at Die Illustratoren agency. I gave up because I don't work digitally. You have to have a ton of art to upload as stock!
16:30 I have an example of knowing when it will do well or not. Andrzej Sapkowski, author of the witcher books, sold the rights to the witcher games to cdproject red for an upfront price. He said something like, only idiots play games. Later on he sued CDred for more money and royalties from copies sold, because Witcher 3 did so so well.
George Lucas is probably the best example of the opposite of that. He took a pay cut to retain the sequel and merchandising rights to Star Wars, which the studio gave away happily because they were considered worthless at the time. George pretty much started the movie merchandising industry out of that, then Hollywood copied him. He also founded the computer graphics company that later became Pixar. When they handed Pixar a lifetime achievement award at Venice, it was George who accepted it, as the true daddy of Pixar. There's even footage of him from the early 80s talking about how videogames would look the same as movies one day. And here we are! George is incredibly shrewd and prescient, it's no surprise that from humble beginnings he has made himself into the world's richest artist.
Is it just me or does it kinda feel like Marshall set his camera up with the intention of creating a more appealing framing than the straight-on framing Stan is using?
@@ari_isdrawing4293 @A Reid They are just trying to be edgy. To answer your question: i think it's a combination of 1. Marshalls working station being in a nice spot where you can see the books and the outside, 2. Marshall being a visually oriented person, so he's trying to make his stream look appealing with positioning half-portrait layout. This is not something I made up, it's practices on how to film an interview, make a video shot more appealing to look at etc. 3. Proko is focused keeping his living room and location private
I would love to hear from some female digital artists on the podcast! like Loish, Jen Bartel, Alice X. Zhang, Beatrice Blue, Robin Eisenberg, Naomi VanDoren, Yaoyao Ma Van As, Devin Elle Kurtz, Lydia Elaine, Karmen Loh, and many others.
Hi guys, l enjoy watching your “flirting” & good advises ! Btw there was a caller asking about if he should go for his “breaking the rules” style or go along with the client’s “safe” style requests. How about to create both &/or different styles as options for them to choose from ? Some appreciate the new & some don’t, but you never know what they tell you unless you present it to them !
Little boys LOVE garbage trucks and all other big, noisy, powerful vehicles. I’m a mother of three (grown) sons, and I spent plenty of time watching them with my boys.
Hey guys. Love your show. To address the caller you had about book illustration pricing and royalty related stuff, you guys might consider contacting Will Terry. He is a RU-vidr and a freelance, children's book illustrator. I bet he could give some valuable insight on the book illustration field for artists.
Having worked freelance throughout college and during my time in restaurant I have observed the simple transaction process of money for drink and have used it in art quite often. Largely, my opinion, beyond accrewing royalties, is that your own price is based on self assessment and the tolerance of the client. How fast can you move? How fast can you think? How many things can you handle at once? Craft cocktails take longer but are impeccable. Therefore they naturally have a higher cost tolerance. The alcohol content may remain the same or even LESS but the pricing goes from 8 dollars to 25 very quickly. Martini and scotch drinkers buy the corporate art generally. (This is a joke haha) The EXTRA ingredients naturally add to the price as well. In digital art so much of it is content based, the only determining factor is if you hit the target on time and well, less than the power bill. (Game consoles use about the same power as PC relatively as the apex of technology reaches the zenith) If you can make 14 drinks in 7 minutes... well... you have naturally a higher threshold for cost to your client but it will still depend on who they are and why they are at your bar. Who waddles up to the bar? Mr magoo? Your long time day to day patron? A man you dont know but rough around the edges? Millionaire governor head of security? A Somm in training? Italians from abroad? Visiting Brits whom love gin as a taste of home? In bartending you have to choose how much people drink, whom you can serve, and even diffuse drunkards. Thankfully art is more simple in the business but unfortunately more difficult in your project to project prowess. Every painting is different. Every drink must be the same. Opposites locked together. That would mean your ability to make art however you please determines your gate of walk at first. The client is the X in the algebra. Can I sink a bullseye time after time? Make an old fashioned perfect every time? Subjectivity in art clouds that judgement but therein is your patron to tell you. Wip em. Wip em wip em. (Work in progress). Not a step you make after certain intervals without approval. That is checkpointing, luxury in art unafforded the "tea ceremony" style of the bartender. Use it to the maxim. It is a great boon. Is the woman walking strangely? Did the man just walk 3 drinks to a table of kids? Checkpoint everything. Measure your ability to checkpoint also. How long can you focus? How long can you sit before your back hurts? Then price according to that skill. The argument of Whistler and Woods over the Nocturne in Black and Gold is invaluable here to answer this question. If i spit something in 10 minutes that gets you what you need, I deserve, upon this principle, more resource/financial allocation than if I took 10 years. Is my drink sweating? Has the liquor dilluted the ice? Is the drink now obscured of its original purpose? Watered down whiskey is awful unless a water-whiskey highball is ordered. It's within our power to price according to self assessment in numbers according to the world economics. However it's important to make sure your self worth and emotions are balanced when doing these assessments. Do not discount the pains in your life but number them and factor them into pricing. Bartending schools interview to make sure of the intention behind a person. Alcoholism is rampant. We shouldnt add to our own strife when analyzing the self but be honest and take joy in our feats like a man preparing for a marathon. Often 11-15 is the wage on east and west coast in the United States. In middle America 7.25 an hour reigns over many patrons' lives. Keep this in mind when charging hourly. But always pay yourself at cost and markup 30-45% to stay above board in alcohol sales. This applies to keeping the lights on in art as well. Considering bars are at will employment that are dead within a month without patronage, this remains, in my experience, the easiest way to determine pricing as a buccaneer saling the waves of freelance in any field. And therein is the maxim of crosstraining also. That's my opinion at least. I'd have preferred to have had enough money to pay a dedicated manager for years. Sadly, life is not fair and in the absence of one, we fill in the space. I hope this may have helped someone if they are struggling. All things are relative. LIGO proved that theory in 2016 ahaha
There is one request to the draftsman team, can you just repeat the questions ppl ask or can do subtitles too. It's difficult sometimes to understand what they are speaking. Thank you. Love you draftsman Team take care.
Art that is created digitally directly on some kind of computer or pad is no different than a painting or photograph when it comes to art that will be printed on a book, packaging, billboard, etc (commercial art). They all end up digital to be printed. For instance, paintings and photographs are scanned for printing. A typical cover may have a budget of $1,500 to $2,500. That budget will be the same whether it's art from an iPad or an oil painting. The publisher is only concerned with the look of the printed cover. Expectations may be different for fine art where buyers tend to like one-of-a-kind originals.
Will Terry from SVS Learn has some great advice on pricing. You can either watch the Three-Point Perspective podcast or watch Will Terry's videos on his own channel. He also has a book coming out specifically about the business side of art & illustration covering topics like pricing and books. I highly recommend checking these out.
