Showing Off, Saying No, and Marshall Gets a Prank Call - Draftsmen S2E18

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Marshall and Stan field voicemail questions about balancing time an artist should devote to input and output, what kind of message they want to convey with their art, how much showing off is too much, and whether an artist should take a pay cut to create artwork for friends
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If you have a question call and leave a voicemail at 1-858-609-9453. If you’re not located in the U.S. you can record an audio message and send it to us at support@proko.com.
Questions
5:00 - How do you find a balance between input and output as an artist?
11:54 - What kind of message do you want to give in your artwork?
24:26 - Prank call
25:36 - How much showing off is too much?
34:18 - How do I price my work for good friends who don’t have a lot of money, but want to commission me for work?
44:28 - Outro
Show Links (some contain affiliate links):
War of Art Book - amzn.to/2YaOpD5
Marshalls Mad Magazine Art - proko.com/draf...
On Kitsch by Odd Nerdrum - amzn.to/2YbmCm3
Robert Williams (Juxtapoz Magazine) - proko.com/draf...
Big Daddy Ed Roth (Hot Rod Monster Art) - proko.com/draf...
Spike Lee’s Master Class - • Spike Lee Teaches Inde...
War of Art Draftsmen Episode - • The War of Art - Draft...
The Art of Fiction by John Gardner - amzn.to/344A0fD
Milt Kahl (American animator) - proko.com/draf...
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ABOUT DRAFTSMEN
Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you! Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff - www.marshallart.... Subscribe to the podcast at bit.ly/Draftsme...
CREDITS:
Hosts - Stan Prokopenko (www.stanprokope...), Marshall Vandruff (www.marshallart...)
Production Assistance - Charlie Nicholson, Sean Ramsey (www.peoplewhodr...)
Editing - Charlie Nicholson
Audio Engineer - Charlie Nicholson
Intro Animation - Cody Shank (codyshank.com/)
Intro Jingle - Tommy Rush ( / tommyrush )
Music Used with Permission Intro - The Freak Fandango Orchestra

Опубликовано:

11 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 168

@Draftsmen 4 года назад

Thanks for leaving us those questions! If we haven’t covered your question please call and ask your art Questions: 1-858-609-9453

@stefanb6539 4 года назад

Well, I am not from the US and English isn't my native tongue, which makes me a bit too shy to call. BUT, I think I got an interesting question for a discussion, and will try to leave it just here in the youtube comment section: So, Marshal and Proko, how would you go about deliberately producing bad art? Maybe that question is still too broad, and needs more context, so here is an imaginary situation. You are working as a setpiece designer for a famous moviemaker. The movie to be made is a crime novel, and the villain is a serial killer, who is so upset by anyone who says critical or bad things about his art, or just fails at sufficiently expressing his adoration, that he immediately has to cruelly kill them. Off course, the plot twist is, that the serial killer is hopelessly untalented, has no idea what he is doing, in spite of putting enormous amounts of time and energy into what he does. Now, the moviemaker tells you: "We don't want to spend a lot of time explaining to the audience, how bad that guy is as an artist. It's all about "show, don't tell", so I need you to paint a small series of paintings for me, that the camera can just pan over, and the audience will spontaneously react with "Oh.... Oh my.... that's bad.... He must have wasted hours doing that, but it's just.... incredibly bad!" So, what kind of paintings would you produce to fulfill this very special request?

@histoky2010 4 года назад

Should have made a podcast on colour

@histoky2010 4 года назад

Should have made a podcast on colour.

@henrythegreatamerican8136 3 года назад

Even if the artist never intended for their creation to have deep meaning, at least fool people into believing there are some kind of secrets hidden beneath the beauty of the creation. For the majority of art, I honestly think that's what happens. Everyone expects there to be some kind of meaning behind every piece of great art. And to make the situation even funnier, wait for some intellectual to come up with something grand in their description of your work, then go along with it as if that was the true intention behind your artwork.

@justdrawalready 4 года назад

“I have never been the mailman or the milkman there” “..wait what??” 😂

@rahulr3118 4 года назад

Ikr😂😂

@maan7715 4 года назад

Apart from the incredibly useful tips these two share, just listening to them fool around is priceless haha I love Marshall's randomness

@justdrawalready 4 года назад

Ma An totally, I love both of their perspectives but mostly Marshall’s singing. Dude’s got pipes

@DiabolicalAngel 4 года назад

Laughed so hard lol

@bloodnessx 2 года назад

That was wild🤣🤣🤣

@abiolaadekanbi7463 4 года назад

Marshals humor is wild sometimes 🤣😂 “I have never been the mail man or the milk man”

@tanishnaidu Год назад

that was the most cursed thing I have ever heard on this podcast.

@armoredsolus6233 4 года назад

The energy you two bring to the table is contagious. The humor calms my inner anxieties about art-making. The true value of the draftsmen podcast is that you are both extremely honest in your approaches. Never change

@madnesslives 4 года назад

Couldn't have said it better myself! You articulated exactly what makes this podcast so unique and appealing! The mood created by their friendship encourages: easy going, yet driven to excellence, growth mindset for lifelong learning, comradery not competition or envy, being at peace with yourself as you strive to improve

@loneylowf8876 4 года назад

marshall: your next line is ''it depends'' stan: it depends stan: nani?

@sunstrumsharam5388 4 года назад

Sound like Joseph Joestar

@duzacsp1376 4 года назад

Cooper Joestar: Yare Yare daze

@gz6076 4 года назад

I always feel happier while and after listening to an episode. Great podcast

@veganjotaro 4 года назад

Same for me! :^)

@Chessbox09 4 года назад

Yes, the artistic journey is challenging enough, but they make it so much better.

@peterjacksonanton4814 4 года назад

I can only speak for myself, but I think the audience would be fine with longer, fluffier episodes that last 1-3 hours, especially when you have guests. I assume we mostly just listen while we draw/paint

@Sky-de7oy 4 года назад

Stan's son is so cute hahaha and omg Marshal LOL the humour is surely a part it :') you two are an hilarious pairing

@scottcondon7791 4 года назад

Your podcast is applicable to anyone seeking to improve their skills, it's not just for artists

@EnzoDraws 4 года назад

Marshall being proud of NOT being called an Artist is one of the most FASCINATING talking points I've seen on this podcast (and there have been plenty of them), I was smiling all the way through

@kyleward9394 4 года назад

Marshall just gets cooler every episode. "Lowbrow art" is the future of what I will likely be interested in

@AscendantStoic 4 года назад

14:30 Don't let anyone shame you for your art not having a message because there are some zealous people today who are running around demanding everyone must use their mediums of art to spread political propaganda or else you are part of the problem and you should be ashamed of yourself .. blah blah ... yada yada, unless you choose to draw say political cartoons or say a comic in the political genre nobody has any right to demand that you insert some message in your art or emotionally blackmail you into thinking you are doing something really wrong by not doing that.

@dr.entomophiliac 4 года назад

Not to mention, drawing something because let's say, you find it beautiful, is a message all on its own! The wish to share your worldview with others in ways that can't be conveyed with words. Sometimes intuitive ideas hold the deepest meaning, much like dreams... I prefer to draw first, interpret/analyze later.

@Conahawk 4 года назад

32:43 woah Marshall can do a perfect Space Ghost impression

@MultiMetalsnake 3 года назад

24:25 is just perfect. I always come back to this watch this part.

@Garl_Vinland 4 года назад

I want the next thumbnail to be the goofy meme with Stan's face and Marshall the milkman is kissing him.

@neilcanta1302 4 года назад

I don't plan to make money out of making art but I listen to your podcasts because i love making art while listening to them haha

@george5548-x6k 3 года назад

me too puts me in the mood to draw

@tchakhtchoukha 4 года назад

I first listened to the podcast then came back to see Cooper 🤗❤

@tomremeny 4 года назад

Maaaaaan I love you guys, this podcast keeps me going I swear 😅😊

@MohamedAshraf-fw1dc 4 года назад

Guys.....the “Draftsmen” channel page looks like a Louvre of Horrors, where all the images have become haunted by these 2 ghosts Great content too :)

@anthonypc1 4 года назад

Hey, the banter and highbrow humor (e.g. 9:11 ) is in large part why I put this podcast in my ears while I do house stuff! Now I am insulted by Marshall's scathing self-deprecation.

@G3rex 4 года назад

Your advice is generally pretty applicable for most fields and passions, so please, don't undersell yourself.

@7chill87 4 года назад

I'm not yet an artist, but I love to listen/watch you guys talk about art (and I love the 'fluff' that gets left in) :)

@ianwhite7750 4 года назад

Thank you Marshal and Stan for answering my voicemail question today. Very helpful. 👍🏻

@spencerjonesvo3973 3 года назад

Best opening yet lol. Love sweet Cooper ♡

@KiX-K4T13 4 года назад

Okay that intro was the best! Lmao Cooper is the best! 💛

@eldrickzero4885 4 года назад

I haven't watched yet but I know I will have a good time. Possibly, the best podcast ever for artists. Honestly proko kinda always asks the questions I ask. So I can relate to his perspective very much. Marshall is so nice , he is like a wiser friend you have. I love draftsmen. Thank you for your efforts.

@Brandon.manga. 3 года назад

This show is amazing for when I just want to kick my feet up, and in the times I need a kick in the butt

@maxismakingstuff 4 года назад

Everytime I watch these I come away wanting to draw again. Thanks guys.

@sq1978 4 года назад

Re the question about "draftsmen" vs "artists" I strongly believe that's it's okay to be either (or both). It's okay to enjoy more of the technicalities and focusing on those while creating something that you would just like to exist in the world (and beauty is a simple but equally valid intention) and it's equally okay to create something with messages in mind, to communicate something and trying to channel that in the language that is art. The problem starts when one side or the other starts to push their mindset / standards / expectations on the other. Let each other be and use art for whatever you learned it for.

@craftygeekent4620 4 года назад

I have the same issue of friends or friends of friends wanting me to do work for them... But they usually get turned off by the price that I would charge to do the job. Something I may do for a Christmas or birthday gift, where my time and skill is worth the price to me, I would not do for free or cheap for a stranger. I do my art for people that I love as gifts when I am not asked to do it.

@pjreads 4 года назад

Not all music has a message. Not all poetry has a message. Some art communicates emotion. Some art communicates a person's appreciation of something beautiful, magnificent, awesome, etc.

@GENIAL323 4 года назад

I mean, in those examples, the emotion IS the message, same as to represent something beautiful, magnificent etc. All kind of arts has a especific message, the complexity of that message is what changes from case to case. Art itself is about comunication.

@StormEngineer 4 года назад

I think you have the wrong definition of "message". It doesn't have to be something complex, painting a picture of a flower simply because "it's pretty" is a message too. Don't think of the message as an actual thought, or even words. The message is ANYTHING a creative works gives to you. It can be as little and simple as just a feeling, or as complex as a philosophical idea, or anywhere in between.

@zacharycieszinski5465 4 года назад

I appreciate what Stan said about doing work for your friends. I want to design creatures and explore animals more in my art but often times people I know ask me if I can design logos for them. I'm more interested in concept art and illustration but people want graphic design.

@linarala1234 4 года назад

you humor is all I need

@chloe3053 4 года назад

cooper is so cute!! his little voice!! with marshal?? what magic

@cheesebungirl 4 года назад

Best channel ever, I love it. And the humor xD

@histoky2010 4 года назад

"Former survivor of vandruff" 😂😂

@craycrayselfsabotage 4 года назад

love your humor, love your podcasts... keep going guys, you're doing great! :)

@hemantkumar1096 4 года назад

I dare you to keep clicking this time stamp continuously for every one second! 30:11

@deebonash4487 3 года назад

Love this. You guys are hilarious even if you undermine it 😂 the sarcasm is over 9000!!!

@petervalcanas4219 4 года назад

I'm not an artist but I like to draw occasionally and I love listening to you guys. And I've learned a s**t load from you. Thanks!

@shinkamui 4 года назад

28:00 this is really weird. When I see a great piece of story done wondefully I always think about the skill of its artists. Like spiderverse was an amazing display of skill by the whole team AND it was a great story. And you can say the animators were flexing the whole way through with all the weird angles and difficult shots. But I didn't stop to think ''woah what a bunch of show offs''. I was just impressed that they pulled off, and impressed by their skills. You can't have a well executed story without a strong display of skill by someone. Maybe if someone is overly bothered by show-offs they could benefit from introspecting a bit and seeing if it isn't their ego that is a bit bruised somehwere.

@Changetheling 4 года назад

Spider-Verse is comic books coming alive the right way. It's an incredible work.

@rinmari7224 3 года назад

I honestly agree!! Just i think in this scenario they might be trying to say dont make art with that motive! Im pretty sure the animators were trying to tell the story in the best and most creative ways they could and trying to create animation that fits the story and werent just using fancy angles just to be cool and show off, i could be completely wrong here! I just think what they might be trying to say is that your motive behind the art can effect the result ? Maybee

@ronrob1998 2 года назад

God I hope, this podcast never stops. 🙌

@Garl_Vinland 4 года назад

13:00 Ohhh that hard cut. xD

@DrWhatever 4 года назад

Let people draw what they enjoy, I don't think it's should be a big deal for people to do something that just relaxed them or helps them to get there thoughts out.

@StormEngineer 4 года назад

It depends on your goal. If you want to make a living with art, it's not so simple unless you are lucky enough that what you draw just for fun happens to also sell.

@DrWhatever 4 года назад

@@StormEngineer even then, the goal there should be refinement. Not necessarily having to redirect what you draw, which I feel people are too concerned over. If you paint furries like Rembrandt, no matter how much I don't like it you'll probably make funds and it's none of my business. Same goes for nsfw, sfw and all sensible artworks.

@email5for6casey 4 года назад

! Best intro ever for anything in any context lmao

@akkad7514 3 года назад

Cooper is a frickin gem

@elizabethharbord 4 года назад

Ahh, man! I love you guys.Thanks for doing what you do!

@genkins23 4 года назад

love you guys!

@StormEngineer 4 года назад

Yo Stan, nobody cares if the podcast is longer than an hour - if anything, they could be longer. Heck, I wish it was two hours per episode. So stop making excuses and let them get longer. :P

@jdanarchy4170 4 года назад

I'm not the milk man 😂🤣

@ArchiduquesaMA 3 года назад

I am the opposite. I think it's important to draw something that has meaning to you. I used to draw to impress, draw things that are beautiful, show my technique everytime. And now I draw a lot for fun but I only show drawings that have meaning to me. I don't show pretty portraits or nice views. Now that I can draw a horse, I don't find drawings of horses impressing unless it has a twist, something that makes it interesting. Of course everything is art but human are emotional beings and we will be more invested in art that has emotional weight

@vasilisdaltas4833 Год назад

as they said at 2:10 , yes my standrards are quite low, indeed 😃

@killteameddie 4 года назад

The Odd Nerdrum book would be interesting, I haven't read it, but I really like his work, but I also thinu guysk he is a difficult person. I loved the War of art, but would never have heard of it, if it wasn't for you guys. It even changed the way I work and helped me get better. keep going! I love the podcast!

@Sandhq 3 года назад

12:15 did you guys ever get the chance to cover this topic , I cant seem to find a video of you guys touches on this more

@Chatterphone 4 года назад

lol that guy triggered by exaggerated proportions

@ericlemire668 4 года назад

Hahahah I love it my names Eric Lemire and I’ve always been drawing my whole life and I’ve finally decided to get serious with my art skills soon I will be starting the Jeff watts atelier and I’ve already watched most of his videos too so I’m really excited for that and Marshall you are amazing!

@PurpleFlush 4 года назад

Okay that intro skit was too funny

@Brandon.manga. 3 года назад

Stan is the older brother I never had since I'm the oldest haha. Marshal is the wise elder that would teach a village hundreds of years ago

@alephthetheropod6210 4 года назад

The guy at 12:00 "Hey guys, could you scold the sinners?". I think he might want to look at Kim Jung Gi's art. Stan, you undersold your response, it was great. I think that, as in math, some things do not have a purpose or application yet are interesting or pleasing to the mind. Also, the sex thing will vary a lot; the caller and Kim Jung Gi are both male yet extreme opposites about it. Those things are just hit and miss, I think people should draw first and worry about society later.

@Changetheling 4 года назад

" I think people should draw first and worry about society later." Perfectly put.

@StormEngineer 4 года назад

I think you misunderstood that completely. He wasn't talking about sexual art. He was talking about the annoying, stupid and sexist phenomena of people drawing every single female character like a barbie doll with huge silicone implants. Like when in games, you make a warrior and give it the exact same plate armor and the male version is a super buff guy covered in steel head to toe, while teh female version is a big boobs anorexic chick in armored bikini. THAT is a problem. There is nothing wrong with sexual art - and hey, I draw porn art for a living so I mean it - but the phenomena he talks about is something that should go away.

@alephthetheropod6210 4 года назад

@@StormEngineer I see, no. I got it perfectly right, it's just that I completely disagree with you. There's no drawing we would be better of without, drawing is a different aspect of speaking, thinking and seeing, I wouldn't cut the wings of anyone who looks at things or enjoys them differently than me. Imagine if we just had Rembrandt. First, before attributing anything to sexism we should contemplate if the drawers lack of aptitude is behind those proportions, experimenting with shapes nd exaggeration is an important part of the learning process. Second, if that's not the case then I don't see why it's stupid or annoying, it's just different. It's like saying cartoons are out of proportion and are dumb. See how Marshall felt about being singled out. Third, I believe that with art, the interpretation tells a lot about the observer. Why are you so angry at someone else having sexual thoughts and urges? Why should they stop to please you or the caller? Can't you just avert your attention to things you like? Also, the sex art you talk about has a damn subjective aspect to it, so if I find someone more uptight than you, would you stop? Who puts the limits of proportion or nudity? Why should only pros like Kim Jung Gi be able to draw naughty stuff? Btw, Kim Jung Gi has and will draw things waaay more spicy than those, oh so horrible, characters you describe. Just relax, if you like what you do that's what matters. We'll come to defend your art if another one wants it gone.

@SuperJeffoMan 4 года назад

Well said, I agree with you.

@valhazlife 4 года назад

DAT INTRO THO

@Changetheling 4 года назад

Great episode.

@sclh 4 года назад

I'm not an artist and I'm here for the humor, but I mostly look for the unintended humor

@atod2572 3 года назад

I REALLY miss those awkward intros 😭

@MrYulienskate 4 года назад

I've got a problem with showing off and it's that I might be one of them. I'm an art student at the moment and apparently I'm some of the best in my generation? And it sometimes suck to be able to see many flaws in others' work that I've moved past from, and it makes me cringe when they look at my work after them having done their attempt with sweat and blood and feel a bit like shit because of mine, I've felt that so many times and I try to help them improve sometimes. The thing is I struggle too because I'm trying my best anyway, I believe that's the point to any excercise that I'm not a 100% good at.

@anthonypc1 4 года назад

Stan's the Man with the sun tan 😎

@yaelih.589 4 года назад

Best intro so far lol 😂

@msfh1991 3 года назад

ok cooper is adorable

@Mnkybyhndcrmp 4 года назад

Chad?? MY name is Jack!! lol My New Orleans s accent doesn't lend well over the phone thanks guys for answering my question!

@sarahsantana4439 4 года назад

ja ja ja!!! You are the only podcast I listen.

@ThatMinority 4 года назад

My standards are low. Real Low.

@garzapinups 4 года назад

I highly suggest asking Olivia De Beraridinis. She goes by “Olivia” with her work, she’s the former pinup artist of Playboy and she started in erotica back when there weren’t many/any female artists in that genre back in the 70s when it was considered a “no no” what with the Feminist Movement and all. A woman painting women in a mans world? What is that like? She would be one to know!

@poloshirtsamurai 4 года назад

@Socialist Stormtrooper Who voted you as arbiter of what's sexist or what's not?

@tiffanybillings2153 4 года назад

Love you Guys haha

@santone1849 4 года назад

Another great episode I agree with Marshall just try your best to do the best work you can and if others like it so be it . Is art be entertaining ? I think so , sometimes I look at art and it makes me laugh or sometimes cry . Sometimes makes me feel calm or even scared . For me its like a good film . If it causes an emotional response it good

@anthonypc1 4 года назад

Mama Marshall 0:18 o lol innocent daddy Stan didn't get it 😉

@amtnanabody 4 года назад

I love you guys

@___9136 4 года назад

16:00 "art IS a language.. when you communicate, you have to have some kind of a message, right" To me this highlights a fallacy in the question itself: Fine, art is a language, meaning it's sending a message. But why assume that message can be summed up by words? To me, the assumption that I can write out a description of what my art is saying is .. artistically myopic. What art can actually do and say is way more complicated than can be summed up in words. It's absurdly complex and subtle. I'm not even convinced you can draw a hard line between 'technique' and 'message'. If you want to communicate something powerful, personal, and heartfelt, that is not IMO anything that can be reduced to a sentence, or even a paragraph -- the verbal - 'say something' - analogy is what we often use but it's very misleading. It's about having a certain kind of relationship with your art as you develop it. That is, assuming your technical skills are adequate so you can actually DO that rather than constantly arguing with your techniques. The insistence that a particular artwork has a particular message is usually IME an act of political maneuvering, often by someone who lacks the craftsmanship to address the work on any other level.

@gabrielinostroza4989 4 года назад

I agree, and i also think another issue is that they demand this message to be something socially constructive instead of beauty for the sake of beauty, or an emotion for the sake of that emotion. Art is good when it does what it sets out to be effectively, a guy who just draws exciting movie posters or ugly scary monsters is just as accomplished as any high arts person in a gallery.

@___9136 4 года назад

@@gabrielinostroza4989 I think you might be buying into their rhetoric a little. Perhaps some of these people are genuinely interested in social constructiveness. My observation is that most are not; the incentive is almost entirely in presenting oneself that way. I agree on your definition of 'good art', though I think getting into questions of who is or isn't equal to whom is a waste of time. It may be most fair to say that the artist drawing movie posters and the high arts (did you mean fine arts?) person are incomparable, because what they are doing isn't actually the same even though we notionally put both under the excessively broad 'art' bracket.

@MarkWhippy 4 года назад

I think your son was trying to repeat what Marshall said, when Marshall said "maybe I have some qualities in common with mama". Sounded like he said "marshall has some.... comm with mama"

@annmariethomas9968 4 года назад

Why do people want to learn to draw better? Why are so many people interested? What reasons do people have for taking drawing lessons? Professional? Personal? Of course there’s a wide range, but are most one or the other? To draw for comics, gaming art, fine art, hobbyists? Or is the podcast and website so popular for the great company you provide while stuck at home. Lol.

@KaiVentura 4 года назад

I wish Marshall was my Mama :(

@josquinelburg74 4 года назад

I'd love to see a review of the Odd Nerdrum book! I feel the same way as you two do about the craft behind artworks, and that's what I'm most concerned with in my stage of development. However, I do think it's a bit two dimensional to say there's only (please correct me if I'm misinterpreting) 'Art' with a message trying to teach or preach, and art mostly or solely concerned with craft. I think there are various levels of depth an artwork can have that's not only craft, or only art that's trying to teach you something. I think both of the examples are relatively surface level. And by the way, I love craft with all my heart (truly), but art that uses the craft and goes beyond that to a 'deeper' (please, anyone respond! Is there such a thing as a 'deeper' level or do you think it's just highbrow talk?) level can be much more beautiful and moving. I don't think, at all, that art trying desperately to make a statement, cashing in on political events, is 'deep' art, so I'm not trying to defend that either. It's easy to write someone (me for instance) off as a pretentious snob talking about so called deep art, but I think that would be a mistake. I don't think deep (sorry for overusing the word) art is comparable to a documentary, and craft to fiction (maybe I'm misinterpreting - correct me please).. Case in point, director Kieslowski started his career making documentaries but after a while found the medium lacking because you can only show facts, and switched to fiction film. His movies are very deep and very beautiful but isn't trying to preach some facts! Very multiple dimensional pieces of film. I don't know if my ramblings are clear or have truth to them. I would love to see what you guys and people here in the comments think. By the way! I love the 'metaphor' way of viewing composition Marshall! Turned a subconscious thing into a very conscious thing. P.S. I do also think appreciating great craft alone can be a very emotional thing too! Just a different experience I guess.

@josquinelburg74 4 года назад

Assuming anyone thinks art can have various levels of depth, what do you think is the so called deepest level? Is it beauty? Is it an intellectual experience. Is there not a single thing but can it be various things?

@___9136 4 года назад

Narrative is "deeper". Documentaries are shallower because they are constrained to fact, whereas people are really focused on narrative. It isn't necessarily better -- narrative can contain a lot of insidious bullshit, at worst it's outright propaganda. But people do work this way, so I think incorporating narrative necessarily offers them a deeper experience, and if that's an option available to you, shrugging it off may be an irresponsible choice.

@lorenemcdonough5766 4 года назад

I'm not sure this is a direct reply to your comments. The most moving "art" (whatever art means) was an exhibit of drawings and paintings done by Hiroshima survivors. I saw it in the 1980s. The people HAD to get their images out of their heads. There was no "teaching" or "preaching" and in many instances the craft was crude. Boy was that impactful. My sweet husband has a masters degree in Art History (he spent his working career as a union insulator). He talked about a teacher lecturing on the "well shined shoe" when referring to paintings done with excellent craft and vacuous content. I think that might be one way to process looking at images. Today in the NYTimes there's an article on Black Artists look beyond 'Protest Art' at British Shows. (I have not read the article yet.) It occurs to me there are things/ideas that must get out of an artists mind. They have no choice. I again do not see that as educating or preaching. On another level, there are works meant to be manipulative. It's not the same. Just thoughts. I like to listen to these podcasts while doing mind numbing tasks. It takes me places I would never have gone.

@paulashin5133 4 года назад

yay!

@leigh4756 4 года назад

Left a voicemail but I talked too fast lmao

@spaceskipster4412 4 года назад

Photo-bombed by Cooper ! 💥 👍🏼 😄

@komojo 4 года назад

Not every artist is trying to make a statement, but I don't think anything can be completely apolitical. Your values and your views on society will always show up in your art whether you do it intentionally or not.

@artunblock9433 Год назад

Mama😂

@sunshineanddoodles 2 года назад

So apparently my standards are low, good to know lol

@theladymeed4157 4 года назад

Does art have to have a message? Not necessarily. A lot of art is simply pure beauty, and powerful and sublime in and of itself. But there IS art that does have powerful messages, and I think we lack this kind at the moment. Think of Hieronymus Bosch for example - phenominal artist, craftsman and technician, and yet the message in his work is so powerful - this is art that disturbs; his work sums up the turbulent changes that led to end of the medieval era and the beginning of what was then known as the modern era. Another artist is Goya; the paintings he did for the court of the Spanish king were beautiful, but he is more well known for the work he did which showed the horrors of 17th Century Spain, where there was the inquisition, Napoleon's invasion of Spain, and all the terrors and horrors that people lived at that time. The Disasters of War, the Black Paintings, etc. are some of the most powerful works ever created, as well as being aesthetically beautiful, and the fact that he had to hide some of this work and eventually leave the country shows that there was more going on here than mere entertainment. Even the religious art down the centuries had lots of meaning, for obvious reasons. Sometimes, entertainment is just not enough.

@davidseibert973 3 года назад

Not an artist. Not wanting to be one. Definitely only here for entertainment and humor... :0)

@varuntulsyan2558 3 года назад

Please call a guest who's cares more about 'saying something' through their art. I really need a deeper conversation about that topic bcs that's what i struggle with!

@ZTYsora520 4 года назад

MAMA！

@linarala1234 4 года назад

LOOOOL

@tasogarerubica 4 года назад

Concerning the sexualization with in art maybe invite artists who stands for and against it? Open up a stage or platform for a discussion and argument towards this subject. From what I can gather, Marshall has a large pool of former students of his that may lean into either sides of this discussion. Where both Stan and Marshall can stand in as the neutral points due to both being an educator in the arts and Stan being someone who conveys the importance of accuracy through anatomy. It would be amazing to broaden this debate into not just the sexualization of females by male and female artist but the sexualization of males by artist too and seeing the difference in the voices and opinion towards this subject. I honestly think this subject could be it's own season with how charged this subject is and how the communitys' feeling towards it has changed through out the decades. Also wanted to chime in one of the perspective on this subject by an artist, not my own but a manga artist who stands on a interesting position towards this claim of sexualization. The artist I'm referring too is the Hiromu Arakawa, the author and artist for Fullmetal Alchemist. She is known by the community and expressed it herself several times that she loves to drawn beef caked up men, with an almost bodybuilder like physique, which isn't actually that popular of a build from the female demographic in Japan. Another interesting aspect of hers that is quite surprising is she also loves voluptuous females, while she is well known be be an author who can write strong female characters. Now her own interests in these builds for males and females are unrealstic, but it's her preference and I'm surprised she doesn't get any negativity concerning it.

@MrGone2k 4 года назад

Sounds like a political/social justice minefield that should be avoided.

@gheedra2708 4 года назад

Voicemail guy : "Guys why do young male artists want to draw attractive women? I just don't get it." Everybody : "Gee I don't know, maybe basic biolo-" Stan : "I don't know, maybe instead of asking them we should ask a woman." 200 IQ move there, Stan.

@StormEngineer 4 года назад

No, we are not talking about "attractive" woman. We are talking about barbie dolls with arms thin as a stick and boobs and ass the size of a car, which is sadly a trend and stereotype that is both stupid and sexist, and needs to go away. And just for the record, I say that as someone who draws porn art for money, before you say I'm a prude or something.

@gheedra2708 4 года назад

Storm Engineer Lol, dude we're talking about novice artists. Of course they're gonna draw like that at the beginning because they don't know any better. I draw foot fetish stuff along with regular lewd content, and my beginning drawings of feet were so fucking disproportional that, to this day, I have no idea how I didn't notice how off it looked, but that's just normal for beginner artists. You exaggerate what you like, often to a comedic point until you learn how to tell what a good balance is. If that's something you genuinely see as "sexist" then yes you are a prude. If exaggerated female perportions can get you triggered so easily then what about everything else? Furry art, fetish art, lolicon, guro, etc? How quick would you be to advocate screwing over people who draw things you personally don't like just because of your subjective moral high ground?

@gheedra2708 4 года назад

S H If you have done so many mental gymnastics that you can't understand why most young men draw sexualized female figures then you're beyond saving. Contrary to popular belief, our genetics that have been developing for millenia hasn't been completely uprooted due to a few hundred years of industrilization and technological advancements. We're still primitive at our core, and no ammount of dressing up and playing "progressive" is going to change that. Young male artists draw sexualized female figures because of basic human biology, yes. Most humans are straight, and most men even accounting for different cultures, have a gravitation towards hips and breats. So yes, since most men like women with certain features, then when they draw women they will draw them with such features. If that is something you find hard to wrap your mind around then I don't know what to tell you.

@lisafred1362 3 года назад

I like drawing very obese women and old people but it is much harder to do perfect young women so I like them as a challenge. Lisa

@mayukhdey8737 4 года назад

Wait what?!

@Rihcterwilker 4 года назад

Cute.

@anthonypc1 4 года назад

16:25 I was almost disappointed you didn't have some considerate balanced reflection on the issue of ubiquitous gratuitous sexualization of predominantly female characters across many genres of illustration... So I'm glad you cared to insert that little notice for us to know you'll prepare to address the subject, and with additional perspective from a woman. Look forward to it :) (though of course getting opinions from one person won't represent the perspective of everyone else with her gender.) P.S. I liked how that caller's attitude was just one of concern for being at least AWARE of the social message many character artists ALREADY are perpetuating for impressionable viewers, without reflecting to even realize. He understood it can just be habitual and he wasn't condemning anyone, or making absolutist demands on artists, which tends to just be obnoxious and unpersuasive anyway. I, myself... have an affinity for boobs, butts, etc. and I there should be no shame in that expression and I see nothing inherently disrespectful in depicting women with an erotic element to THEIR personhood. But there's some obvious and nuanced distinction to be drawn between celebrating the sexiness of your favorite human forms (or their own erotic empowerment) and just exclusively depicting women with the predominant purpose of being sex objects for the straight male gaze. SOMETIMES a relatable woman character could, idk, maybe look like someone you wouldn't be lusting over ? There are some for whom that idea may seem ridiculous. Like representing women with equal variety as men must be an effortful chore, or political message. TLDR: But only objectifying an entire gender IS ALREADY sending a strong message; reducing our concept of women to just (preposterously) sexy bodies. Worth listening and thinking about some times at least.

@anthonypc1 4 года назад

BTW I'm not for restricting anyone's artistic expression -- and there may be contexts where a purely erotic character of a cliche female body is the only point -- like for some kinda cartoon porn perhaps.. I just think when we bother to become more aware of the influence of the messaging we've been putting out all along, we then can have more conscious control of it -- maybe decide it's not exactly the impression you want to always be making about all women you draw.

@poloshirtsamurai 4 года назад

@@anthonypc1 "BTW I'm not for restricting anyone's artistic expression "- But you are. Whatever happened to "if offends you then don't look" and "live and let live". You're an authoritarian begrudging other people for what they want to do but I'm sure you don't want restrictions on your self. Just because you care for social issues doesn't mean everyone should.

@anthonypc1 4 года назад

@@poloshirtsamurai if you want to demonstrate some hypocrisy of mine, you should also provide another quote that contradicts my statement that I'm Not in favor restricting anyone's artistic expression. (although now I think about it, there may be some extreme exceptions to that general principle of mine.) I wrote about being thoughtful, so we can be better Aware of what messages our art or other media content may be contributing to, so we can be make more informed choices, at our discretion. Not under threat of being CANCELED off the face of the Earth for being deviant! I'm happy to self-restrict my own expression if I'm convinced it's the better thing to do. And honestly I have no problem being restricted by rules and laws I agree are necessary. (like copyright infringement in artistic content, or graffiti as vandalism, or if a terroristic threat was delivered as a form of video art... etc) And we can make our opinions known if there's some harm we see in a degrading depiction of a type of person which we wish the creator would reconsider. Have opinions and expressing your values doesn't mean you're an authoritarian. That's only if you're willing to force people to do what you want against there will. I prefer to be persuasive, just to thee degree that I think something is worth the effort. There are probably many restrictions you would agree SHOULD be enforced, such as graphic content sexualizing children.... I hope ? making some dehumanizing sexist depiction of an adult woman character may be Less harmful, so I'm just willing to argue about it, not try to enforce my opinion with legal punishment. There's a whole spectrum of debatable issues with how we represent people. it can be nuanced. I don't want to be dogmatic about anything. But I do believe everyone Ought to care a bit about social issues which we directly contribute. That's just being responsible for our influence on the culture we live in. I have no idea why anyone shouldn't care at all about that.

@EzmeralDraw 4 года назад

Finally! FIRST

@genkins23 4 года назад

you only have better internet :(

@EzmeralDraw 4 года назад

@@genkins23 trust me, Iran has the second worst Internet after North Korea 😂

@genkins23 4 года назад

Neg insane but i am from philippines so I win we have the worst internet clocking at 2mbps

@harshvardhanshinde7657 4 года назад

in Hindi children call their mom's brother MAMA so Marshall MAMA

@WooptyDo 4 года назад

roast me next!

@gorgoth9320 4 года назад

There should be a timestamp when the awkwardness ends and the real podcast begins.

@sonseraedesigns7167 4 года назад

I heard your review of the War of Art and I thought you said it was the Art of Learning…After 4 hours of listening to a guy describe every move of Tai Chi and a chess game, YAWN, I finally realized I was listeing to the wrong book. As a girl artist, I can give my opinion on sexualizing women in art…it’s usually done by artists who see women only as objects anyway.