Going Over Jon II, AGoT 

Bran does wake up from his coma with brain damage. He thinks he is a wolf and thinks he is getting supernatural visions from a three-eyed crow.

Arya is a little kid, Septa Mordane's comment might've upset her so much that she scattered her clothes all around the room in a tantrum. It's not that hard to imagine 😂

This series should be called 'Preston is really starting to hate ASOIAF and picks holes in the tiniest things'

Bran lying there emaciated, starved, skin stretched tight over his bones, legs unset and smashed, resting at sicking angles, staring with his eyes open, at nothing, his skin a sickening colour: "nonetheless, we get this Hollywood convention of the beautiful coma". Preston I love so much of your work, but sometimes you say the strangest things...

"You Starks are hard to kill," is a reference to Bran not dying. I don't think Jon is thinking of anyone else.

I heard my grandfather say to my father, at my father’s uncle’s funeral, “it should have been you” So that line resonates with me as very real.

10:00 I think medieval people would expect people to wake from comas because illnesses would cause small comas relatively often - like when someone has serious flu they are semi-conscious for days unable to rise or do anything. That’s similar to a coma. Also a coma is like sleep and people wake from sleep. Also , by a week or two weeks brans broke ribs and flesh wounds would clearly show signs of healing so he is getting better

The other wolves being submissive to ghost, makes me feel like he is the oldest. Which would be a cool parallel if Jon was Ned’s first born son

Preston, I'm surprised you didn't mention how Jon seems to get major confidence boosts from Ghost in this chapter. One of the reasons he is able to face Catelyn the way he does is because Ghost has some physical contact with Jon prior to the Cat meeting. He also directly describes how Ghost is making him more brave post the overly dramatic meeting.

Preston, I love you man, and I love this video series in particular. Still, I‘m gonna need you to stop analyzing emotional moments from the perspective of "logic". Please? "Why does Jon tell Robb that Starks are hard to kill when talking about their dying younger brother, doesn't he know about Brandon and Lord Rickard?!". Come on…

I'm not sure Bran being Cat's favourite is that strange. In a feudal sense there was always a preference to boys, but Robb was heir to Winterfell, so important generally, whereas Bran was "her" boy, and hers alone

I really want to thank you for all your videos. I've been watching them for about 10 years and love the attention to detail and insights you bring. I am really enjoying these line-by-line analyses you are now doing. Great work. Thank you again.

It would be kind of a hilarious twist that Bran actually did endure serious brain injuries from the fall and there actually is no three eyed crow in his dreams or Children or Bloodraven, he never goes into Summer - Osha just doesn’t have the heart to tell him that his delusions aren’t true. 😂

22:00 Come on Preston, surely you have seen a child throw a tantrum and just throw everything out?!

Im gonna be honest,ever since the reveal that the original incestuous relationship idea came from Arya Stark and Jon Snow makes this chapter so weird and everything surrounding Needle and "stick em with the Pointy end" so pervy 😆 I cannot separate

I can understand viewing things as retcons from the perspective of manuscript production and writing, but I also think it works well as a way to set expectations that many in ASOIAF have that based on their ignorance or prejudices. Like the commentary on bastards comes mostly from cat who has every reason to denigrate the roles of bastards because jon represents a betrayal

Idk man Ive seen folks do over the top things when grieving. I wouldnt think it so far-fetched for Cat to be so mean to Jon.

Would just like to say I'm loving these chapter-by-chapter vids! Keep up the great work :)

I think the Jon and Arya thing was changed extremely early. I know he had wrote these chapters when he penned that letter to his publisher, but it's not unbelievable that he rewrote their dynamic to be more sibling-like.

I feel like a lot of the gripes you have are how these arent things your feelings and your motivations would do in these situations rather than what these characters with their feelings and motivations would do in this particular story

In the books Rickon is so young in the beginning that he doesn't really have any agency, he's not old enough to understand that Bran is seriously hurt, or the concept of death really.

Some of these criticism are just silly.

Even though Bran is in the “beautiful comma” as you call it, going over his description slowly like this still comes across as horrific. Reading it myself, my ADHD goes over the description quickly and it glosses over the worst of it. The broken legs, back and ribs…like I can understand why Jaimie and Robert were pro-euthanasia.

GRRM intending this scene to be the seed of a Jon/Arya romance does frame it in a very different light. Closing the door so they wouldn't be disturbed. Comments about her body/physical closeness ("skinny arms" 'It's so skinny' 'So are you' "messed up her hair"). Odd description of the scabbard ("supple as sin"). Phallic sword imagery. Crazy that for years this chapter and Arya I were the setup for Stark incest shenanigans, alongside Targaryen and Lannister.

I think fighting as a woman is disapproved enough that every single woman has to force their own way to it, every girl is raised with the assumption they have to be a proper lady. Brienne was also expected to marry and wear dresses and dance, even though she was taller than all the guys and clumsy. Also I don't really remember anything being said about all Dorne women being fighters, it's more like a sand snake thing. And they are bastards so they don't have any expectations for them anyway.

lol. Love the close reading re: the chamber pot. No, I never did think of that. Oofta.

It's not unreastically cruel at all. I had a friend as a kid, who's sister before he was born, had died as a baby. I heard his mother whilst drunk and crying about it tell him it should have been him as he tried to gently console her.

The reason Arya "spilled her chest" and "scattered her clothes on the floor" was because George had some word play in mind for when he eventually wrote their love scene

“Bran doesn’t have any brain damage” yeah but his mind was magically awoken by the Three Eyed Raven you’d think that would repair/enhance his brain, no?

Arya's Needle reminds me of George Patton's assessment of the sabre for calvalry purposes. Patton essentially said that the shock of being penetrated had as (or greater) effect than the actual damage of the weapon. I imagine the effect of Needle to be much the same. 3 stabs of any blade will cause anyone to reconsider violence as a means of resolution of conflict.

I don’t think Jon’s character loses this emotional intelligence, in fact I think so many of his issues in Dance are caused by him intentionally going against that side of his character. Or rather utilizing it in such a detrimental fashion. Even when he’s Lord Commander, he is still basically just a kid.

it's not unrealistically mean for Catelyn to say "it should have been you" to Jon or to have never called him by name. It just speaks to the kind of person she is. If this is a world that has cruelties such as flaying men alive amongst other atrocities that would be considered war crimes nowadays, why wouldn't there be a woman who resents the fact that 1) her husband had an affair with a woman soon after marrying her, 2) brought back his bastard son to raise with her own children (bringing along all the potential dangers of succession etc), 3) won't even say who the woman was and got mad at her for the first time for asking. Even if she can't bring herself to hate Ned, why wouldn't she transfer all that resentment and hate toward the representation of his unfaithfulness to Jon? I believe this scene with Jon is meant to provide a different side of Catelyn to the reader from the side she shows the rest of the world.

we caught up to the patreon

Tbh from cats perspective saying she wishes Jon was the one who fell just makes sense. After having marriage arranged the one consolation prize was Ned’s honor, especially within the marriage. Jon is evidence (from her pov) that cat can’t even have that. Although yes it’s not Jon’s fault for existing, he himself presents a problem for her kids as well. He could have a claim to usurp their titles, specifically because he looks like a Stark, more so than the more tully looking siblings.

We need more!!!! These videos are so good

Even though there are plenty of examples of non-stereotypical (for this setting) women in the story, they are only a very minute percentage of the general population of women... you can count a dozen of these women versus hundreds of thousands of women who don't hear about or know the names of who do play the "women's roles."

Preston, why do you think George decided not to have a farewell scene between Ned and Jon? Obviously the show has a goodbye between them where Jon asks about his mother. Do you think George was trying to hint more subtly to the fact that Jon is not Ned’s son by not having it in the chapter at all?

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

Great chapter!!!Thanks!

29:00 yes k also thought the women warrior thing was somewhat retconned. The key thing is the Mormonts a major house with all warrior trained women. Arya would have heard of them and probably met them sometimes. The lady of bear island would surely have visited the starks at least once in the last 9 years. Arya should probably be obsessed and idolize them . I’d say Martin just came up with that layer but isn’t it in if not GoT then the next book all this about the Mormont women is told.

Preston have you ever gone into great detail into the visions that Danny received in house of the undying?

I never could warm up to Catelyn after this chapter. Whatever good deeds she did after this point, her behavior here was inexcusable.

Mr. Jacobs please make more I love these videos

Wowee great video

I think every time Jon thinks “I’m not stark” the Caitlyn scene comes back up - no need to have him meet lady Stone heart

i always thought that cat's favoritism from bran came from the fact that he was the second boy. the first son would always be "for ned" to raise into lord of winterfell and the girls would obviously fall under her care, but bran was a boy she could raise to be who ever or how ever she wanted him to be

I will say a few things about the hearth tales is for 1 it provides light not just warmth and it's where a group can easily gather as it's likely at a central location with seating arrangements already and people like listening to stories in groups

What if Bran started climbing in chapter 1 in order to chase or find Jon. And Jon took the black to punish himself?

I wonder if Catelyn being uncharacteristically mean is just Jon’s perception of how she treated him.

14:51 ‘it should have been you’ my head cannon is now that this is a telepathic echo Catelyn is getting from an alternate timeline where it was Jon. As Preston speculated , brand fall and coma may have been organized by time traveling bran to awaken his powers early. Maybe the original timeline had Jon find Jaime and Cersei (perhaps on another day) and he was battered or stabbed or thrown out a window. His coma awoke his powers , and brans took longer to cook. That timeline must have ended with the loss of the Long Night and hence ttb had to change it. Catelyn is spending multiple days trapped in one room with little sleep around bran while he’s being telepathically contacted by 3EC , in which he sees other timeline Brans (impaled dreamers) so if she ever was to get a telepathic whisper from another timeline it would be then. Thoughts?

thanks !!!

👉👉👉Are you going to do more reading 📚 of the chapters???

The only way the phrase "it should have been you" makes sense is if, in the past, Cat had prayed for Jon's death (or something more generic like "make him go away")

The ORIGINAL plot may have led to a resolution between Jon and Catelyn, since she was supposed to flee north to the Wall, wasn't she? I believe this was GRRM's original path to wight-ing Cat.

If she called him Jon only once then she was calling him bastard. Again Cat sucks!

Most of the hate goes to Cat and even sometimes to Jon. It should really go to Ned. This big happy family he’s trying to make will never happen.

Are you still doing these?

Bring this back ser preston

HE HATH RETURNED

"It should have been" you to me just shows the mental state Catelyn was in. The kind of rage and sorrow that makes you lash out and want other people to be as miserable as you are at that moment. It's not how she is normal, but it shows how bad she is at that point.

As someone who thinks Jon is quite annoying specially in the later books and the fan obsession with him as the Aragorn-Jesus-Generic prince guy that doesn't even fit the themes of the story, Catelyn being so mean to him is so strange because she's never as mean to someone like that before or after, but also, we don't know how insane she is right now, I like to think she hasn't slept in so long and is so stressed she's just being crusty, cantankerous and utterly brutal to everyone who speaks with her. Only thing that makes sense.

I think its odd to say "why would people in a medieval setting expect someone in a coma to wake up". Like, why wouldnt they expect them to? If they have no knowledge, and he appears to be sleeping I would default to thinking its at least possible to wake up, given no other knowledge

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I've never understood why Martin is surprised that so many people hate Cat. Who didn't start to hate her in this chapter? Even those readers who will find later Cat's character more interesting and more compelling than Jon's (like myself); this early in the first book, even those readers thought Jon was the main character they should identify with. And we never get anything from Catlyn to redeem herself - unlike Jaime, who can virtualy redeem his much bigger sin (the attempted murder of Bran) by his arc in Strom of Swords.

Did Jon have to pay for Needle ?

She had zero reason to ever think about Jon again as she eliminated him as a ‘threat’ to her kids. His possible future claim or that of his future kids would be dead after he takes the black.

14:31 I kinda disagree with this mostly because Cersei lacked opportunity but this is definitely something she would have done If Robert demanded that mya come to court. She would do everything to make her life a living hell.

Some people are just way less forgiving of children that aren’t their own when forced to raise them I have experienced some pretty gnarly things that step parents have done with their spouses kids and it is not all sunshine and roses

I dunno Preston maybe because they have maesters who come from a highly educated institution that's outside the idea of medieval medical learning?

❤

My guess is that the problem between Cat & Jon is that no one knows Jon's real origins, so he can be the oldest kid. If he is legitimised & he's the oldest kid, all of Cat's children would go after him in the line of succession. Cat fears for her position as possible Lady dowager of the North.

A comment for the algorithm ❤

Bran is not the middle child, Arya is. Also Bran was the baby for a while before Rickon. If we’re being fair to Cat we don’t know the Bran she loves so much. Our Bran is handicap and miserable. Her Bran loves to climb and is a sweet boy.

Cat being crazy mean does seam out of character compared to every other time we see her, except every other time she isn't interacting with Jon, I can tell you that that sort of bitterness is entirely believable, I've seen it first hand from a birth parent let alone a step mum

It was good to actually hear the "live" analysis. Half of this is ridiculous besides the one for the prologue chapter, which was decent.

18:28, I don't think that's a smart thing to say, smarter response is "She said it should have been me. She's completely insane, and probably blames me for it. If I stayed here, I'd fear for my life.".

Catelyn got Ned killed!

18:50

i loved you in eurovision

What if the "Jon. it should have been you" line and other uncharacteristic lines said by others are actually a fractured time traveling bran warging randomly through time as he dies. The "it should have been you" line here might refer to him being "the chosen one" that bran ended up being. The fact she had never said his name in FIFTEEN YEARS makes me suspicious.

this series is what i imagine bible studies feel like for kids who are into jesus

Craplen Stark, poopin in the corner

Yeah but it makes me think that Cat has been cruel to Jon repeatedly. If her comment was wildly out of character Jon would’ve been more shocked. At least internally

Catelyn is so over the top resentful against Jon it is truly hard to understand. The fact that she’s so upfront about it is even crazier. I guess we’re led to believe Ned just enabled her the whole way? Idk. Cat not calling Jon by his name for fifteen years is crazy.

Katelyn is a freekin goof!

Bro just release the next fanfic chapter already

Is uncle Ben's beans

13 chapter in and I'm already tired of how disconnected preston with people is, and with how they think, behave and the sh!t they say.

Awful takes. Literally 5 different times i said "wtf are you talking about". This dude cannot suspend his disbelief

Cat gets a lot of shit - and rightly - for being such a huge dick to Jon. I do get though that it’s really hard for her to have this constant reminder of her husband’s infidelity - and a potential threat to her own sons’ inheritance - in her house, playing with her kids.

If lysa fears the lannisters why does she put tyrion on trial for his life, especially when shes the one who killed her husband. Carmine king

The answer to the "why does Arya need to be gender conforming" question of early AGOT when there's warrior women elsewhere is that Arya hadn't giving any real reason why she shouldn't be like others did. She may suck at needlework and ladylike qualities (apart from math apparently), but she still does them. There's plenty of women elsewhere in the story who are "bad" at their ladylike gender conforming ideals. People were just expecting Arya to turn out like that. Cause in reality Arya WASN'T being that unladylike. She wasn't going down to the yard to watch them or ask to join. She wasn't openly playing around with swords, though apparently her and Bran had done some play stick fighting. Jon's the one who gives her a sword before he leaves but also thinks she has no idea how to use one, and indeed that's why she's playing with Micah later. When others find out about it and her sword they're completely shocked that this interests her. She's not going around screaming "I love swords" before AGOT, nobody really knew this. There's other stuff too. She herself mentions in AGOT that she's a better horse rider than Sansa, but it's mentioned in terms of ladylike horsemanship and how that irks Sansa. She's not racing horses, playing at rings, or anything more masculine than just riding her horse well. Harwyn, who Arya remembers leading her around on her pony, is fairly surprised at how good she actually can be when she truly races in ASOS. So she wasn't going around with horses beyond what she was expected to do. It's a byproduct that Arya was being gender conforming up until AGOT when she's finally pushed not to be.

Obviously "it should have been you" is novice time traveling Bran trying to tell Jon hes supposed to be king! Why else would she call him Jon?!?!? /s

The reason Cat says it should have been you had to do with what she told Jon earlier. "I prayed for it," she said dully. "He was my special boy. I went to the sept and prayed seven times to the seven faces of god that Ned would change his mind and leave him here with me. Sometimes prayers are answered." She prayed for some event that would change Eddard's plan. An injury to a child changed everything but she feels the wrong target was selected by the gods. She wanted Jon to be the sacrifice. It's still otherworldly cruel to say but I get why this isn't some out of the blue comment. GRRM does a similar thing with Dany later where she bargins a life to save Drogo. She thinks it is the horse but it ends up her son...maybe. No body was found.

Catelyn isn' t defenseable!!

Arya’s “Sansa can keep her needles, I’ve got a needle of my own” is such a great line that I’m kind of astonished it came from the show and what we have in the book is just downright cringe in comparison with them magically coming up with the exact same word together. Especially when you factor in what the implications are supposed to be of them finishing each others sentences. 💀

In regards to Cats cruelty to Jon, I think you are attributing unrealistic expectation of reasonableness. I love your analysis of asoiaf but every now and then I think your analytical tendencies blind you to the emotional layer. If we accept the text as the truth, regardless of whether we agree or not (as to who *should* be Cats favorite, etc) cat is in extreme emotional distress and has been since bran fell. She would not be thinking rationally, making logical connections, or thinking straight in the slightest. Cat being religious implies that she believes the gods have a hand in what happens in her life and her telling Jon that it should have been him is easily believable as "If the gods saw fit to take a child from our house, they should have taken you instead." She wouldn't be thinking about how this fate doesn't make sense to befall Jon but that her child is near death and Jon is the easiest target for her anger and blame. Her reasoning is not logical or make sense, but that's the point. She feels that something has been stolen from her and she is angry about that. She wants vengeance for that, and until she discovers who hurt her baby, the world can burn. Especially Jon, who she already feels doesn't belong, but is also a constant reminder of something else that was stolen for her. Barely controlled rage and helplessness presented with the most visible reminder of her sense helplessness and hatred. I would argue that in that moment, hoping she would never see him again, it's possible she *wanted* to hurt Jon regardless whether it's true or not, lashing out at an easy target that she already dispised. Claiming a character in extreme emotional distress not making logical sense isn't bad writing. It's characterization. People in real life make illogical decisions and show illogical malice for emotional reasons all the time.

It’s just unrealistic and annoying how awful Cat is to Jon so there’s rly no reason to wonder why fans don’t like her she’s just straight up annoying

How did they hydrate and feed Bran for those WEEKS he was in a coma?

I don’t think you need medical knowledge to hope a comatose person wakes up. I think it’s quite logical to assume they’ll eventually wake up, they just appear to be sleeping. Surely they’ve seen feverish people trash in their sleep for a day or two before waking.