Going Over the Prologue, A Game of Thrones 

And he's probably gonna finish it before Winds.

@@iliaponomarev1624I came here to post this

@@iliaponomarev1624 If it's once a week that would be crazy. I think winds wil be out before that.

Holy shit George really did plan it all

Haha

"the economy is great" Preston is back!

If I look back I am lost

"If we start back we are lost" gerrod opined, as the woods began to grow dark around them.

It's kinda weird that he says "dance" when "dancing" is for bravosi

Or Sir Arthur saying "then you shall have it" to the smiling knight in regards to Dawn.

Right up there alongside "Bring on your storm, my lord-and recall, if you do, the name of this castle."

@@lomiificationI feel as though a song of steel deserves a dance, in any culture.

Eh I'm with the White Walkers on this one, dude was talking a big game then got BTFO'd. One of the things that really sold me on the series is that there's no Aragorn and crew just mowing down orcs and bad guys. He was out numbered, out gunned, and out played. Just because its fantasy doesn't mean it should completely deny reality. His goose was cooked and his bravado made it funny.

"the economy is great" Prestoner is back.

@@Holypikemanz Facts over feels, bro 🤷‍♂

Preston gonna finish this series going through every chapter before Winds comes out

Thanks

@@secondeye1574 Reality over gas lighting, sis

Agreed. He was acting cocky about it, but dude had every reason to go check personally. He asked all the right questions (how many bodies, their position, their clothing, etc.), and made all the right deductions (not being cold enough to kill 8 grown men with heavy clothes and shelter nearby). He wanted to prove himself on his first ranging and he wanted to impress his Lord Commander. He had no reason to suspect that he would run into literal ice zombies thought to be dead for centuries haha! Respect for Waymar Royce.

And in their hands, the daggers.

Back we start should

I always imagined that he was sent to the wall for a crime instead of being executed. Maybe he did something and was offered a choice. The pride made him hide the real reason why he took the black. Alternatively, his father the lord ordered him to join the Night Watch as he was deemed unworthy of the name, for some reason (as Sam was).

​@@berlineczkaUmm strange for old Yohn to do that, no matter him being one of the spares I doubt Lord Royce would just dispose of his son like that in the way Randyll did.

He or his parents may have known Robert, too, given that Robert and Ned grew up in the vale

And during the rebellion, it would make sense to call out "For Robert!".

Preston might be putting too much emphasis here on how the prologue was meant to set the tone for the series. George very well might have just written it this way because he was in Will's head and that's the way Will quite naturally viewed the world and these interactions, instead of a broader thematic trough line. Because, as an idea, it's dropped very quickly. There isn't a remotely lowborn perspective in the first book besides Will. We only sort of get lowborn perspectives in the next book with Arya and Davos.

I mean when I read the prologue I took it less as a point about classism and more about ‘people in power will ignore obvious red flags so long as there is some personal benefit to be had from continuing onward’, which is *very* prevalent in the series. In GoT alone you have Dany trusting Mirri while everyone around her points out she’s a witch, and Rob heading south to face the Lannisters while Osha warns of the coming threat in the North, and Mormont ignoring the very scared animals in bringing the bodies of wights back to Castle Black, nearly leading to his death, and Ned’s… ‘gestures broadly at King’s Landing’ just all of that (pairs well with Joffery’s failing to read the room and not kill Ned, making war inevitable).

@@PineappleLiarwhat do you think class struggle is

Yeah, it was pretty obvious why they were making fun of him 😂

How bout the sticky tree sap, like blood, on the side of his face. Does that remind you of someone’s winestain birthmark? Also, seems symbolic. Do you think the “watchers” are the CotF?

@@danlapointe5140 Yes, the watchers are CotF. Relatedly the biblical term 'Watchers' is what the angels were called who came down to mate with humans, creating unholy hybrids that caused the apocalypse. So I think Martin is switching it from the Advanced Watchers coming down to mate with the lowly Earthborn woman - to the humans being more advanced onces, who are mating with the magical earthborn Child women.

This is bang on

@@umwhaI agree and I’m glad you see it. So in the line, “They emerged silently from the shadows, twins to the first.” the “twins” is a vague reference to the woman in the ironwood tree. She’s “the first” watcher(a far-eyes) Will saw. Do you agree? Would you also agree that the watchers were mistaken for the wildling raiders that Will first saw in the camp?

@@MC-el2usCan you also see the imagery Martin is creating in that scene. Waymar, against the backdrop of a snow-covered ridge , dressed all in black, turning in a circle is the yin within the Yang. He’s fighting a “white shadow” emerging from the dark of the wood. Agree?

It’s also interesting to think that “Robert” spelled backwards is “Trebor”. "Jordayne" is similar to "Jordan", and "Tor" is Jordan's publisher Trebor Jordayne is the Lord of the Tor and the head of House Jordayne in Dorne. Trebor Jordayne is a reference by George R. R. Martin to author Robert Jordan, who was one of Martin's friends. So “For Robert” backwards could be Trebor rof or Trebor ring of fire?

Isn't the Night's Watch supposed to be apolitical? I remember Mormont's speech (from the show) where he stressed that they're not fighting for any king or lord but just to protect the realms of men.

@@Siegbert85 Nothing has ever been apolitical, especially people who say they are.

@@ashleydavis3318 I guess... but I remember from either the books or the show, not sure rn, that the Night's Watch hosting Stannis was a problem because it could be seen as them picking sides. Officially they're supposed to stay out of Westerosi politics.

@@Siegbert85 Yeah, I get what you mean. Nonpartisan is probably a better term, but even then there are mamy examples of members of the night's watch taking sides politically. Yoren saves Arya, Thorne hates Jon because he's a Targaryen loyalist, the Warden's bastard son is suddenly in line for leadership from the moment he swears his oath, etc.

in just three years we will meet an equilibrium, when the last book was released as long ago as it took George to write all 5 books combined (14 years)

@@ivandankob7112Good god. He really must have hit a lot of plot thread walls. Or just fallen out of love with writing it. It is pointless to me even thinking about why, it only brings more questions.

@@aclockworkcranberryhave you read any Grrm stories that he has finished? They also leave far more questions than answers, it’s his style. Some people find more joy in mystery and ambiguity.

Some say there’s already a large obsidian mirror in this chapter.

Yeah and it’s not like he could’ve known that magical ice monsters from fairy tales used ice magic to freeze a camp of wildlings, specifically to set a trap for his ranging party

You're the man quinn!

Hey Quinn, did you see Will drop his dirk? Are you seeing the Purkinje effect with Waymar’s blood? Did you notice that Will closes his eyes before the “cold butchery”? How bout the needle in Waymar’s eye? I have some great thoughts on these, I’d like to share my logic with you. There’s lots to take in and digest. One more thought, Waymar, dressed all in black, circling down below against a moonlit snow-covered ridge juxtaposed with a “white shadow” which emerged from the dark of the wood. From Will’s perspective can you see the Yin and Yang imagery?

Yes and i think preston was uncharitable in his interpretation. Will was right but so was Royce.

​@@superninjaraidingman Yeah I have to disagree with Preston's characterization that Will and Gared are right about everything while Waymar's showing his inexperience by ignoring them. It's the complete opposite IMO. Waymar repeatedly shows that he's a well trained highborn applying his skills to his new station, who's unfortunately got experienced but uneducated and lazy commoner underlings who don't respect him because of the class differences so keep poorly questioning him. There's tons of examples of this: - Will comes back and tells them the wildlings are dead, let's just go home and Gared agrees. Waymar correctly wants to know more and what/if anything killed them because of course Jeor, another trained noble, is going to ask that instead of brushing it aside like Will and Gared want to. Jeor would be furious if they just came back with another mystery and would immediately toss them back out... now 2+ weeks worth of a trail behind than if they just kept the investigation going right now like Waymar wants to - Will says they're dead, but when questioned by Waymar admits there's no blood and they've still got their weapons. Heck one's even still up in a tree far away from whatever happened in the clearing to kill them. Waymar correctly points out they could be alive then and just sleeping, and if actually dead then obviously weren't killed in battle. So a second mystery to investigate. - Will and Gared say it was just the cold as that causes people to die as if they just fell asleep. Waymar correctly has already thought through that possibility and dismissed it because it hasn't been cold enough for that, and on top of that they had furs, shelter, and a fire even if it was. Thus something killed them and did so without leaving any blood or signs of a struggle. Again, worth investigating. - Also if something's out there that can kill 9 wildlings so effortlessly it can probably also kill 3 rangers so they need to investigate this more carefully than just taking one look and leaving like Will and Gared want to. If Will's right they're in a dangerous spot, not they should just turn around and go home like nothing's happened. - Will and Gared are uneased by something, but they both can't put their fingers on exactly what's wrong as nothing so far actually is. Waymar correctly points out all they've seen and heard are the wind, rustling trees, and a wolf howling. None of which are anything to be afraid of and so they should continue forward. - Waymar leaves Gared behind to guard the horses. This is a smart move as he only needs Will to take him to the clearing, not all 3 of them, as well as protects their horses in case something's actually out here and they need to quickly escape. It's the decision that ends up saving Gared's life and leaving Gared capable of reporting back to Jeor. Gared unfortunately ruins this by deserting instead of returning to report to Jeor and saving the mission. - Gared wants to light a fire. Waymar correctly tells him he's an idiot to risk a fire when they're trying to sneak up on either a possible wildling camp or something that killed one just because it might scare off a wolf or bear. A fire would alert whatever, wilding camp or their killers, that they're there and risks them all when right now as far as they know they haven't been detected. - Will and Waymar get there and the wildlings are gone. So Waymar was right to come back and check again as either they're alive and they need to continue trailing them per their original orders or something did kill them but then oddly moved them. Waymar's obviously right to double down here and try and investigate the clearing. - Waymar orders Will into the tree to watch over him and get a different view than he'll himself have at ground level. Something perhaps he even chose to do because Will said the wildlings had done so and he's learning on the job? Regardless, Waymar's smart move saves Will's life (for now) and ensures the mission should've succeeded even with his death by not keeping them together - Waymar, not Will, is actually the first to notice something is actually wrong and pick up on more than just a bad feeling. Which btw we have no idea if he hasn't had these all night too as he's not our POV. Commanders are trained to put their men at ease, not make them afraid too. Waymar dismissing Will and Gared's superstitions is what he's trained to do. Waymar's the first to realize they're not alone and call out "Who's there". Will hadn't noticed anything and only notices after Waymar's alert. - Despite being alerted by Waymar, who further orders him to tell him what he can see (and presumably if there's enemies then actually come help him), Will abandons Waymar. Who's the shitty team member now? - The Other confronts Waymar with a sword. If the wildlings are actually dead and this is who killed them, then this is infinitely better than whatever it did to kill the wildlings without battle. A swordsman can be fought. We've seen how good the Royces are in battle (Yohn and Robar are excellent) so Waymar's probably pretty good too. And no doubt Waymar was also probably one of the best at the Wall if for no other reason than like Jon he's castle trained, and hasn't run into that much competition since he's been north compared to what he's used to in the Vale. Waymar has no reason to think he's not the better swordsman and can win a sword fight north of the Wall, and if nothing else this is still his best path to victory compared to if it just simply kills him however it killed the wildlings without fighting them. And he's right as does pretty well considering the other Other we see fight dispatches Small Paul and disarms Grenn effortlessly, meanwhile Waymar had a prolonged battle with his. - Having found what killed the wildlings and now Waymar, and proof of their ancient enemy, both things Jeor obviously needs to know, instead of going back to Gared to leave immediately Will decides to go see Waymar's corpse. There he decides Waymar's broken sword will help sway Jeor as though a 4 year veteran's eyewitness account and Waymar's obvious death can't. This gets him killed too, leaving only Gared alive. Who's again only alive because Waymar ordered him to stay with the horses instead of bring him with them. And then deserts on them instead of reporting to Jeor. Like holy crap, Team Waymar all the way. He does nearly everything right and how he should've as a trained and educated noble who's been prepared all his life for leading these kind of missions. Waymar fails solely because it's a magical/supernatural situation instead of a normal one, an impossible situation Waymar couldn't have ever been trained or prepared. And neither were Will or Gared. The prologue's the very first time GRRM hits us with POV biases and inaccuracies in his story by tricking us into thinking Waymar sucks by having Will and Gared keep second guessing him. It's actually them who don't know better as they've never been trained like Waymar has. Waymar didn't have to say "Dance with me then" to win me over. He's had me all chapter. He's leading this mission extremely competently but is simply in an impossible situation because there's magical and supernatural factors against him.

@@therealmarkg171 thank you for the comment cause these were my thoughts exactly. Team Waymar indeed

@@therealmarkg171 Preach.

@@therealmarkg171 "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."

Interesting theory, i like it.

"Dance with me then" GRRM setting the tone early

He had the mettle, as they used to say.

Ranger of True Watch the Nights

It's not like you can even blame him either. Assuming you didn't believe in the others, there wasn't THAT much to fear. A real cool solid character with completely understandable flaws.

He was a fool😊

I was just going to say this as well. I love the idea that this fight is a test.

I thought JoeMagician had that idea first but I might be wrong

That’s my reading of it, and I came about it independently. Among other things, it explains what Arya does in the last season. (I think Stannis, Aegon VI, and Jorah will be involved in certain plot points that we saw in the last three seasons.)

I've never heard that, how interesting! Waymar is wearing quality clothes, carrying a nice sword, he's young, fairly new to the watch, and grey-eyed... Who else do we know like that? ❄️ I really gotta check out David Lightbringer now.

@@alisonvoshell8355 JoeMagician had that theory too!!

Did you notice that Will closed his eyes during the “cold butchery”?

Grand Frey Conspiracy?...

The Freys under Lord Walder don't care about honor and only care about duty insofar as it is duty to obey higher ranked Freys, so unless one of them committed a crime, none of them would voluntarily join an organization that is widely considered a joke outside the North, other than by a handful of houses like the Arryns and Mallisters. Those two houses happen to be on good terms with the Starks and thus have a respect for the Watch, but for the most part, no southern houses send their younger sons to the Watch unless it's as a punishment (e.g. Sam Tarly).

So true. Tbh if he had talked to Mormont and not Ned the whole thing might have been avoided. Gared is a well-known veteran and his word might be worth more than many others.

Nah. The Starks take it very seriously is what the first chapter tells us. It's not the wall commanders that prevent deserters. It's not the lords.

George is struggling with Winds cause he kinda forgot what he was hinting at in the prologue 30 years ago

or, hive mind thought he could be armed with a valyrian steel and tested this with just one of its nods

@@ivandankob7112 That's certainly an interesting theory, but considering the "lazy" parry, it doesn't seem like the other was all that concerned about the possibility, unless by then it had already figured out it wasn't valyrian by then. You'd think if it considered that a possibility, they would have just sent in wights and wouldn't have risked one of their small number, but who can say.

And then he will be like: Oh, hi Grey Robb

Someone yells out "For Eddard and Winterfell"

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin Oh, they were yelling out for Ned. I see. That makes sense.

@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin I've been listening to you for over a decade, man. You inspired me to be a smarter person. Thank you.

@@sermycahwhent4165 Thank you! That's quite some praise.

Well seeing as how TWoW will never come out, I think that's a safe bet.

With that, I wondered if Osha is the vestige of an earlier plan from TTB, where she was going to kidnap Bran and bring him north of the Wall... but that plan failed, so TTB had to send Robb south, get Theon to sack Winterfell and bring in the Reeds instead.

Not beyond the realm of possibility, certanly. But it's also just as likely that she was meant for rickon to begin with@@Mj_Jetson

Alt Schwift X already has you covered ;)

Grey eyes is a common trait in House Royce.

@@DominionSorcerermodern members of house Royce have Stark blood from a fairly recent intermarriage. House Royce gets their grey eyes from the Starks.

@@chrisrubin6445 Jocelyn Stark, Ned's great aunt, married Benedict Royce who belonged to a junior branch of House Royce - might be House Royce of the Gates of the Moon, but not the main branch. Together they had three daughters who married into houses Waynewood, Corbray and potentially Templeton. So no, the Royces do not get their grey eyes from Stark blood. We don't know if they even have any stark blood in their veins.

@@DominionSorcerer oh dang for real? The mainline Royces always seemed so Starkish to me I must have mixed it up. Ah probably just the Blood of the First Men. Regardless, thx for the correction friend.

@@chrisrubin6445 definitely First Men heritage, a lot of Northern houses typically have grey eyes, like the Boltons whom have as far as we known never intermarried with the Starks.