Good Game Design - Super Meat Boy: Motivational Punishment 

Besides the quick respawn the game also does not restart the music when you die which makes it less frustrating.

I wouldn't call this a rage game. A rage game is designed to be _unfair_. This game on the other hand, is 100% fair. Like you said, every death feels like your own fault, and through this you improve and learn.

“Each stage is short too.” *CoughCoughCOTTONALLEYLEVEL20CoughCough*

I hate when games set you back too far for dying. It sucks because I want to practice the specific parts that keep getting me, and not be distracted by the parts I managed to survive. Super Meat Boy shows just how often you need to die to finally get it right and I love when games let you die without too much punishment. If I have to beat a whole bunch of sections each time for an attempt at a harder section, I won't be able to experiment and practice. That's why I love checkpoints and games without lives. These aren't arcade games so there's no reason to limit my attempts. That's what I can't stand about the DK Country games.

“Death isn’t punishing” *coughs in achievments*

Great episode, Sno'

I always tell people that Super Meat Boy is great because of the near-instant respawn. A lot of people i know raged at it and i played through it and thought "that was tough but way too much fun!"

Very insightful, and you found a way to talk shit about the fine bros. Whats not to like? Subbed.

Hotline miami

Dark Souls... A punishingly difficult game however even finding something as a simple piece of clothing becomes incredibly rewarding. Bosses are challenging but leave you feeling satisfied whenever you overcome them. And oddly enough, the story doesn't necessarily revolve around you, rather it revolves around the world. The game is difficult but I wanna keep exploring all the world's intricacies, seeing how many different ways I could traverse it.

I love VVVVVVV and think this fits it pretty well.

Super Hexagon. Though the difficulty can get batshit crazy from the get-go (hence the first level being labeled Hard difficulty), it motivates the player to continue in many ways; through really damn good chiptune music that changes in pace as time goes on, quick respawns, non-disruptive narrated reminders of the player's progress towards "beating" a level, and steadily adapting the player to a randomized set of obstacles that they will have to face in later levels.

Binding of Isaac rebirth, although doesn't set you back to where you died, you have that urge to try and go farther or beat that floor.

Well, i completed Super Meat Boy on 106%, picked up all bandages, all worlds have A+ ratings and stuff, so let me tell you my expression from this game. Super Meat Boy was extremely hard to complete. I passed first 6 light worlds nearly 6-7 years ago and then went back. 3-4 months ago i fully completed this game. It took me nearly 30 000 deaths counting all times i played SMB to complete everything in there. It was hundreds of hours. But what made me sit in this game for so long? Good graphical design, good programming execution, amazing soundtracks and amazing game design, as snomaN Gaming noticed. It doesn't make you hate the game because of lags and when you die it's *fully your fault*. And after every single death you learn how to control your little meat cube, making it passing extremely hard levels and becoming much better with it's controls. Also, instead of "I wanna be the Boshy!" you don't have to complete everything and everywhere to reach the end. You can pass the game completing only 6 light worlds and you can complete 7th worlds plus all dark worlds, if you want to see the true ending. Maybe i said the same that snomaN said, but i wanted to emphasize those sides of the game. Love Edmund McMillen for this game. :D

Pretty sure the Touhou bullet hell games do this pretty well. They may look insanely hard but the part that I love is how you learn how each boss attack works and where and how to dodge it. If you got hit and lost a life, that was because you didn't read the attack pattern or you didn't read it enough to properly dodge it.

you mention how meat boy never changes, just your skill level. i love that in games, and i like when the the harder levels are unlocked at the start for you to try, fail at and then beat with a feeling of accomplishment once youve learned the ropes in the easier levels.

This is why I'm completely against lives in videogames. They're redundant, and serve to bog the player down in load times, transitions, whatever else they can throw at you to pad playtime, while adding nothing of significance. Meat Boy did away with lives, and it's less rage-inducing than some NES/SNES titles, all because you're not thrown back to the beginning of the game for making a dumb mistake. We don't see lives in many games nowadays, mostly just first-party Nintendo stuff, but they're still completely pointless, and need to die off. I don't think Volgarr used lives either, but I could be wrong. Man, I love me some Volgarr. GREAT VIDEO, MAN! I love this series.

I think what really brought this episode together was when you showed the design working its magic on these kids. I actually gave up on Meat Boy a couple months ago in the Hell world. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that I didn't have a controller at the time, but now I'm gonna give it another shot! Great work Sno!

One thing the ultimate edition of SMB said in it's manual (my first introduction to game theory) is how they made sure to always make the music continue- it will never reset when you die like other games, which prevents you from hearing the same three notes over and over again. Team Meat is genius sometimes.

This is why I love Super Meat Boy. It realises that a game doesn't have to be punishing to be difficult (of course there's also the amazing controls and the excellent way of teaching the player what to do, but I think that first bit is more important).

No mention of Celeste? Oh wait, this video is from 2015 and you did another video on Celeste later. Works for me

After I recently beat Super Meat Boy, I realized that it's my favorite game of all time.

I just graduated with my degree in game design and am working as a developer for an indie studio and these are some of the most informative lessons that I have gotten on this topic!

i usually hate rage games but i remember playing this as a kid and loving it despite not being able to get past factory, the movement is just so much fun, fast paced but not ridiculous like the old sonic games and getting closer to completing a level feels so good in itself, and finding the patterns and path to take to complete the level is enjoyable. and getting to see 100 meatboys run the same level on the replay showing how many times you died on the same level is so cool

Give Up It's the same room (with slightly different arrangements) 40 times, and it's very careful about escalating the difficulty. You can beat it in under an hour, but it's still a doozy.

Meat Boy is amazing and I love that it takes difficulty the right way, loads of games like to add challenge in a bad way and it discourages people from trying. Meat Boy, despite being a thousand times harder than most those games is almost impossible to rage at and you always want to continue and improve. I've taken a fairly long break from the game myself and haven't put a dozen hours into it (yet), but one day I do believe I'll push to get all the no deaths achievements, I have just Cotton Alley Light & Dark worlds to complete without deaths, and whilst that's only 2 worlds it outclasses any of the others I've already done by far, but I can see myself doing it. Why? Am I saying I'll get it because I'm some ultra badass gamer pro? No, but because the game motivates you to continue until you succeed, regardless of skill and all that's standing in your way is your persistence and patience, something that's enhanced by its motivational style.

Nice episode! "It's not that this guy gets stronger, you get stronger" : That is really what answer the question at the beginning, why I play games where you die over and over. This is so satisfying to finally beat a game like this. And I agree, replaying the firsts levels of the game afterwards feel awesome because stuff that seemed impossible hours before became super easy.

Super Meat boy is a masterpiece.

The game has great level design. The only thing I didn't like is the circular gravity objects that pushes meat boy higher or lover defending when and how you decide to jump. I beat the game but still have no idea how the mechanics works.

“each stage is short” “looks at the super meat boy forever levels” (PS: I beat this game) well except the cotton alley.

Thanks for making this vid! It's nice to watch a succinct recap of the things I learned from SMB. My game, David, took a lot of inspiration from Super Meatboy and games like it. Hard, short levels, quick death/restarts, no "upgrades", level design and enemy design that attempts to teach the player how to win intuitively.

Another thing about Super Meat Boy that I felt was a nice touch was that the music doesn't loop back to the beginning every time you die. It's what frustrates me about I Wanna Be The Guy, because you just keep hearing the first few notes over and over again.

Lol that phil phish comment earned a sub

Super Crate Box is also a perfect example. Highly addictive game.

it's crazy how there's so many short levels in this game yet I remember a lot of the ones that you showed on the video. Really goes to show how good of a game Super Meat Boy is.

VVVVVV VVVVVV VVVVVV VVVVVV honestly, VVVVVV is tied as my all-time favorite game because it took the lesson of short iteration time to heart and created something extremely difficult but entirely possible and even encouraging through the same means as Super Meat Boy.

Discovered this channel from the Good Game Design episode on Undertale, and watched some more. I love the subtle humor (3:20 and 3:47, etc.) and it looks like we share a lot of opinions about games. tldr i subscribed

Very informative, good job! Also, I love you for that Phil Fish jab.

I think many secret levels in Super Meat Boy emphasize how painful it is to go back to lives screen after dying. Also, try a game called LOVE. This is an example of too short times between dying and gaining control which results you in repeated deaths. Usually 0.3 seconds suffices but if your respawn point is near a death hazard, you'll often forget to let go your controls after dying, resulting a death. It could be solved by a level design but in LOVE you're the one who sets up respawn point.

This reminds me of Prinny: Can I Really be the Hero. It has really good level designs as well, not to mention a pretty unique level system and making you feel weak, but at the same time keeping things obtainable and feeling strong enough to do things.

1001 spikes, super meatboy, I wanna be the guy I like these games, they really teach me perseverence and stayng cool when something goes inevitably wrong.

The replays of stages where you die often are basically a perfect representation of the process of being pregnant

The series that introduced me to your channel. Very nicely done man keep up the good work! Now I really want to play super meat boy... Only ever played the trial version

Yeah, this indie game masterpiece is the one that introduced me to Steam. Since then, I kinda feel nostalgic about that fact sometimes when playing the game. Thanks for this game design explanation anyway. I honestly wish more people would give the game a chance and realize how good it is.

super meat boy fills you with *DETERMINATION*

Super Hexagon does this too.

That was EXCELLENT!! I didn't expect something so short be so good, you proved me wrong. I loved so much the part about the little kids playing, especially the fact there were girls and they were determined. Also to be able to see all your versions running at the same time until "only i will remain" was a strike genius. P.S. I don't quite like letting little kids see something so violent, BUT i myself grew up watching worse things and nothing happened.

Made me think at the end of Long Live The Queen. It's quite curious because as the visual novel with a splash of dating sim that it is you wouldn't expect it but it is very much a game of trial and error. It´s 20 to 120 minutes you have with the game to find a new plan and see where it leads you and how well you can execute it. And then you fall prey to poison chocolate and it's back to the drawing board, now with new information on how the game progresses.... I think it's a nice example of this sort of design being applied in a genre where it is a bit unexpected

Good content, I didn't like the jokes though, especially that they were all taken from elsewhere. I appreciate that you were trying to lighten up the tone of the video, I just don't want to hear the same jokes I've heard a million times. The 'its like X but not weird', the 'its not as bad as Y', the 'thats why they call it "really obvious thing" '. Look forward to seeing more as you're able to delve into lesser covered titles.

I really need to find the motivation to continue to 100% this game...

Another thing to Super Meat Boy's credit is all the red meatjuice that gets spread all over the terrain -- a visual reminder of where you've been and also what things killed you.

Battleblock theater! It's a perfect example of this genre. Not only does it share all the best features of SMB, it also is up to 4 player cooperative (or co-optional as they say). It starts easy, gets insanely hard, has fast respawn, no significant powerups, early stages replayed are easy etc.

excellent explanation, I don't really have any indie game on my mind, but another great game that sorta links to this is Monster Hunter. While death is sorta hard in this game, you don't rly die unless you are being careless. Which makes me think, how about the game design based around risk and reward. In Monster Hunter, sometimes, you can quit your 2 hit then run away type of combo, which is safe. For a more all in approach, it can pay off by putting the monster on the ground, or not affect him enough and you'll get it for ridiculous dmg.

tfw finebros sells you on sno's theory

I wouldn't say this game is "well designed" or anything, but flappy bird is a pretty good example of how effective motivational punishment can be for keeping players hooked

I really loved They Bleed Pixels' design. For the most part it felt very fair, and added in depth combat into the mix, which few rage games actually do.

VVVVVV anyone? is it hard enough? Because I blazed through it in one hour (with 15 trinkets) doesn't mean it's that easy for other players.

VVVVVV Geometry Dash are some of my fav games, and i think they have quite good design

Thanks for these videos, man! You've shown me a different way to look at games and understand what made them so interesting to me.

Holy shit your video's are good. I've been watching a few of them after i discovered your channel today, but this one really got me engaged and made me realize your editiing, jokes, storytelling and your voice are just fucking awesome. You should be getting way more views. I hope you see this because i want you to know how much i appreciate your video's man.

Took me so much time beating the first world, then when I got near the end of the game I beat whole 1st world in under 5 mins :D

My favorite game like this is VVVVVV

Baldur's gate! One mistake and your party gets wiped! But every time you reload, you know you've learned something.

The Souls series (excluding the second one, which was just hard to be hard) seem like the truest form of that principle. Each time you die, it's because you died doing something wrong- you missed a tell, made a bad decision, or got too close to a ledge. So the next time you come up against it, you learn from your mistakes- you dodge that attack, you go left instead of right, you stick to the wall instead of the edge- and progressively get better each time you go through it.

99% of platformers on scratch are good rage games

Hotline Miami has great game design

Nuclear Throne was this for me, though you get stronger over the course of a run, what really matters is your ability. Playing the earlier levels now is a breeze compared to the first times. Let your concentration slip at the wrong time though, and you might die in a really stupid way. Great example of a game where you go from "That's bullshit! I coud never had avoided that" to "That was totally my fault." Thanks for a great vid!

Bit Trip Runner. When you lose, you only throw the controller when you are dehydrated and about to pass out.

Duuuuuuude you need a de-esser plugin

Losing fills you with determination. (I'm sorry.)

I agree with a lot of what you said and to be honest... In rage games, I've always the way they handle death as a form of negative reinforcement. It's like the game is saying "No! This isn't the way you do it! Try again!"

No game has made me curse out loud as much as this game. But it kept me coming back for more. Fantastic game, highly recommend.

why you wouldn't recommend a fine bross production?? just curious. great video! and so awesome that mark brown is watching this too. the best game design series in youtube. congrats

want the list?! ok GD,osu,gd meltdown,and catbug

The point you made about going back is so accurate. Super Meat Boy exemplifies good game design.

Super Hexagon comes to mind, the respawn is even faster than here, you almost never go for over 60 seconds on a level, and when you start to get really good, time actually starts to feel like it moves slower. Like 30 seconds in Super Hexagon are FOREVER. Theres's also no obstacle in the game you just can't avoid, even if you somehow get yourself in a bad position after avoiding other one.

Geometry dash, I'm so hooked

N+

Volgarr the Viking, although you already talked about it, is the perfect ecample of motivational punishment :)

I really liked They Bleed Pixels, but I didn't analyze it on gameplay. I just loved the lovecraftian art style and also the combat.

Geometry dash has good design

Good game design in FPS's?

Thanks for a great series, I use these whenever ever I can in my game I'm creating.

You forgot to mention the meat trail he leaves behind is meant to prevent the player from making the same mistake twice.

I'm sure I'm not the first person in the comments to bring up Dark Souls as a rage game that encourages you to improve yourself as a player. But yeah, I think that one counts.

I know one...SUPER MARIO MAKER

Only two words: Ninja Gaiden for NES. Ninja Gaiden implements this, altogether with energic music and quick mechanics for deaths to not get too old.

This was the best episode yet! Keep up the good work!

I like how so many people are negative about the industry, but you (at least in this video), look for the good bits. Love that!

"There's nothing to blame your death on besides yourself." You undestimate the power of sweaty bois

And the music does not freaking restart when you die, that's a really good motivation to keep playing and trying harder, specially with a great soundtrack like SMB's.

This, VVVVVV and N (and N++) were the games that tought me perseverance and patience

I fully completed super meat boy nearly 6 months ago. I still remember the thorough rage i had on those few levels and how difficult it was to go through but the game was a rage game on its own no cheap tricks no unseen trap just tight controls and amazing level design it actually made me better not only at that but other games mostly fps. Props to edmund mcmillen

I figured out about the dark world by accidentally dropping the controller on the map screen. I went to go pick it up and then I saw that the map screen looked awful and I thought the game glitched.

Another point: The game has a variety of characters, which make certain levels a lot easier. Especially Commander Video who can glide for a few seconds.

This game does this so well. I'm a person who gets very frustrated with games quite easily, yet meatboy has yet to frustrate me . Even though I'm stuck in Lil Slugger and have died constantly to him, all I want to do is keep trying.

You had some footage/mentioned it, but I think I'm gonna have to go with Wings of Vi as one to mention. It's made by the creator of I Wanna Be The Boshy, but it was his attempt to make a game that was rediculouslly stupid hard, but fair...and I think he pretty much succeeded. Unlike Meat Boy, she does get powerups as the game progresses, but it's in a constant state of teaching you how she controls...you can generally always see the obstacles ahead, and since it's the way you have to go, you look at it and say to yourself, 'ok...how do I use the moves I have to get past this?' her jumps are a resource, and you learn how to manage them to proceed.

One of the best expression of the "motivational punishment" principle in my opinion comes from the game Dust Force. Similar to Super Meat Boy, the levels are somewhat short (usually taking around 2 to 3 minutes to complete) but unlike Super Meat Boy, it starts you off from the last safe platform you were on. It has a ranking system that ranks you in 2 categories: completion (how much of the level you've cleaned / how many enemies you killed), and finesse (how many times you died). If you get a S rank in both categories of an easy level, you earn a silver key. These keys unlock newer, more difficult levels in the same area. If you get an S rank in both categories in these levels, you get a gold key, which unlocks even more difficult levels. Even getting to these levels can be challenging, and it requires you to use what you've learned earning those keys even just to open the doors to those levels. I'd go so far as to call this "skill creep" principle (similar to power creep, but with personal skill rather than earning new abilities).

newly subscribed and i love the content. incredibly well thought and you have a really genuine tone. you treat the content like it matters and you care.

I actually like the finite lives system, even preferring it. When great consequence is put on your failure, you learn to act with precision and focus. This is a great metaphor for life.