I’m trying to remember a historical example of a wrestler ahead on the scorecard on the way to a massive upset getting triangled in the final seconds...
Gordon was never down on points. He went up 2-0 with about 10 1/2 minutes left in the match. Bo getting 2 points for the suplex was kinda wierd though since just taking someone down isnt usually enough, you usually need to maintain control for 3 seconds before points are awarded and Bo just got up and walked away instantly.
@@ccoddington well the problem with this match up was that if bo took him down gordon wouldn’t need to stand up they would have to settle it on the mat which Gordon will win obviously so Bo’s plan was to just sneak the 2 pts at the last minute but the suplex was just too tempting
Not sure where you got 3 seconds control from other than pro wrestling for a pin which isn't real. In Folkstyle, Greco and Freestyle as well as Judo what Bo did would at least score two and could be the win for taking them off there feet and exposeing the back to the ground. By your definition Rhadi ferguson wouldnt have scored two take down in my first No Gi match in 2005. The ref gave him 2 take down and me 2 poinst for taking the back.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PTwcswS4zjc.html
If the person who gets taken down stays down even if you don't hold them down for 3 seconds you've apparently maintained the top position. If they didn't have that rule Gordan Ryan would have to stand up because there "wasn't a takedown" and guard pulling isn't allowed in this match.
Remember Gordon took Bo down twice and were it not for the no leg lock rule the match would have ended early. Also they didn't honor the rule that if you are in a position when going out of bounds you keep your position and reset in the middle of the mat. That kept the fight standing far longer as well.
There wouldn't have been a match without rules to make the playing field fair. Yes in a pure BJJ match the world class BJJ black belt will beat a blue belt. Just like in a freestyle wrestling match Ryan would get destroyed. That's why the exhibition had different rules. Also, the rule for reset from out of bounds is you NEVER reset into a submission hold or a position where a submission is being defended against. You also can't reset into a position where applying the submission only requires one action. For example, you don't reset into an armbar, or a straight ankle lock, or a position where you will have the ankle lock if you just tighten your grip and lean back.
"were it not for the no leg lock rule the match would have ended early." so in other words woulda coulda shoulda. If they played golf who would have won? They agreed to the rules. That is like saying "Ben Askren would have beaten Jorge Masvidal if no flying knees were allowed in the UFC."
I don't know why, but I read the title as "Gordon Ramsey triangle choked NCAA Champion Bo Nickal..." and for a solid minute I didn't realise it was Gordon Ryan.
If Ryan Gordon agreed to any sort of wrestling with almost any rule tweak, Bo Nickel would have destroyed him. If Ryan ever ventured over to put himself in the same position as Bo did, wrestling any variation of freestyle or folkstyle, this would have been a bloodbath with Bo looking far more impressive than Ryan did on this event.
Gord scored 3 takedowns, and consistently gave nickal his back because nickal was so scared of engaging. Remember that all leg submissions were banned, which was gordon's bread and butter of that time.
I really love these grappling vs. Wrestler matches. You definitely can see the strengths and weaknesses of both. I can't wait to Oliveira vs. Mackechev!
It's interesting rewatching this now because there's lots of debate over adcc, ebi, ibjjf rulesets. Do we make it submission only, points, no time limit. I don't particularly mind what ruleset wins out, but I hope we start to focus more on whatever the fans want so grappling might become more mainstream
Decided to watch to learn something new, a little hard to follow, glad I did. ( Must remember MMA has grappling, too, not just striking and kickboxing, right on).
To be fair, there's not really a unified rule set that everyone agrees on, ebi is gaining some traction but there's no athletic comission forcing a certain rule set
Hey uncle chael stupidville is actually a beautiful place especially this time of year. Was born an raised there. It's a dog eat dog town though you never hear about anyone making it out. Very sad but I'm here to tell you that thanks to BAD GUY INC. I was fortunate enough to make it out. Thank you Mr. Chael.
If it weren't for the rule change what challenge would Gordon have? It made it interesting. Gordon can't wrestle and Bo can't jiu-jitsu but they can do something in the middle if we just have a little imagination. It was a fun fantasy match.
I wonder why legs we’re off limits but slams were ok? Your giving one guy all his tools, while the other guy only has bout 60% of his own. Wish I could of been a fly on the wall for the contract negotiations.
This joke is really funny. I'm not being sarcastic...it's truly laugh-out-loud funny. But think of it...Anderson Silva is arguably the best middleweight of all time. Some would say the best of all time, all weight classes considered. And for over 24 minutes, Chael beat the f*ck out of a prime Anderson Silva like no one thought was possible.
It’s kind of silly being that Ryan would have submitted him rather quickly with leg locks, but it was impressive how much a wrestler can stall the match by preventing takedowns and avoiding the sweep from entanglements with scrambling. Chael your entire analysis is wrong being that Nickel didn’t score at all.
Shows you how much wrestling is a factor in mma. Many wrestlers cross over and have good success on holding off submission. Can’t remember his name but he was a blue belt beating all the black belts in the world championship, he was a wrestler.
Unrelated to wrestling, his mother Shelly was my high school tennis coach. She used to have bo run back and forth on the baseline of the opposite side of us and would pay us $10 per hit if we could hit him... he was a little kid then but with his grandpa and his father who was our HS wrestling coach I knew bo was gonna do something
My prediction is Bo Nickal will %100 transition to mma. From his aggressive wrestling style, to his willingness to put himself in a sub contest against the best.. I can just see it in him that he wants to prove what he can do and wrestling is not going to do it for him.
Bo rolled out of the suplex and allowed Gordon to land easy, releasing the bearhug, but if Bo would have gone straight back and driven Gordon into the floor...there may not have been a ground game to follow...Bo could have kept the bearhug and did that over and over and over again...lol. At any rate, it's cool to see match ups like that...very cool...props to both guys for having the courage to get out there and do their thing.
I have a hard time understanding this BJJ versus wrestling thing. The pin is the primary win in wrestling. PS: Looking back at this from 2023, it is now known that Ryan has admitted to using PEDs.
It was still cool and I don't know all the rules and point system but it seems a bit dumb to have a match where one guy is good at getting people down and the other is good at finishing people when they are down. Watching it felt like it was going to be a stalemate.
You gotta do Rodtang vs Demetrius Johnson. It fits perfect in your "1 rule changes everything" statement. It was Muay Thai for 3 min MMA for 3 then Muay Thai.. Rodtang came out like a killer in the first 3 minutes. Dominated the striking and never stopped coming forward. As soon as the MMA round started he was fleeing backwards not engaging at all. Just hoping to run the clock out to get back to Muay Thai. As soon as DJ got his hands on him he took the back and with in 30 seconds had him out cold from a rear naked choke. It's was amazing to watch. A spectical.
I wouldn't even say he dominated the striking department. DJ came to fight in every round, he got pressured hard, but he did actually land some good shots on him and avoided all big strikes from Rodtang.
How did Bo plan to win if he dont do any takedowns and controlong the position? Dont get me wrong, i love wrestling, i train both jiu Jitsu and Wrestling, i think the mix of them is great and needed for mma and real fight. I ocourse also do boxing and muay thai and some kali.
I have not seen it, but is Bo not about 40 pounds lighter than Gordon ? Guessing Gordon would have to cut weight just to make light heavyweight, right ? I am so excited to see Bo in MMA and hope we get to see Gordon in the octagon also !
With all the judo terms used by DDS guys, he doesn't have standing takedowns other than Kani basami? Hmm. The question is, how would this translate to MMA? Though rules change circumstances, a skill can be neutralized just the same.
How much longer do we have to wait. I’ve been ready to see Gordon Ryan go into mma. He’s so good that if he could get into western boxing or Muay Thai half decent he’ll excel. I’d pay to see it.
@Jonesy Cinc yeah, I think so, Gary's striking looks great, I gotta think Gordon's been doing the same stuff, he's been talking MMA for a while. Probably going the same route as Tonon and making sure he doesn't make the same mistake so many other grapplers have in the transition. Doesn't want to end up like Danis, Kron, Marcelo, Galvao etc
Absolutely correct, however wasn’t really trying to play donkey guard. He was just baiting Bo into taking him down and it worked. Lost points, but got to the position he wanted. Well played Gordon.
That was not donkey guard... he was trying to give up a takedown to force Bo to engage on the ground. Donkey guard involves being on your hands so you can shoot your legs up. Ryan was walking backwards into him. Not to mention donkey guard is a guard, a dumb one but a guard none the less and guard pulling was not allowed
