Government Caused Housing Segregation. Do We Need More Government to Fix the Problem?

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How should the 21st century repair the legacy of segregation established in the 20th? Two housing policy experts debated whether governments have a mandate to fix the problem they created - or whether private markets would do the best job of integration.
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"Racial segregation in America was, to a large degree, engineered by policy makers in Washington," writes the Economic Policy Institute's Richard Rothstein in the February 2019 issue of Reason, in an article adapted from his book, The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How our Government Segregated America (2017).
The Manhattan Institute's Howard Husock agrees, calling Rothstein's book an "admirable work" in a 2017 review. But the two part company over Rothstein's confidence "that government today is the appropriate instrument to effect housing integration" and his dismissal of the idea that "the private housing market, guided by rigorously enforced antidiscrimination laws, offers African-American buyers the surest route to wealth accumulation and upward mobility."
On January 14, 2019, the Soho Forum hosted a debate between Rothstein and Husock. The resolution read: "Since the federal government fostered housing segregation in the 20th century, the government should foster housing integration in the 21st. Since the federal government fostered housing segregation in the 20th century, the government should foster housing integration in the 21st."
The Soho Forum, which is partnered with the Reason Foundation, is a monthly series held at the SubCulture Theater in Manhattan's East Village. It hosts Oxford-style debates, in which the audience votes on the resolution at the beginning and end of the event, and the side that gains the most ground is victorious.
Husock prevailed by convincing over 13 percent of audience members to come over to his side.
Rothstein is also a fellow of the Thurgood Marshall Institute of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, and is the author of Grading Education: Getting Accountability Right (2008), Class and Schools: Using Social, Economic and Educational Reform to Close the Black-White Achievement Gap (2004), and other titles.
Husock is the author of Philanthropy Under Fire (2013) and The Trillion-Dollar Housing Mistake: The Failure of American Housing Policy (2003). From 1987 through 2006, he was director of case studies in public policy and management at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government.
Edited by Todd Krainin.
Music: 'Voyeur' by Jingle Punks.

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20 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 149

@jackasschicken5922 5 лет назад

Black kids used to be mad that they were segregated on college campus. Today, they seem to be campaigning for it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't is why the government has no business imposing itself in anyone.

@thomaswatson1739 5 лет назад

The truth is they just wanted White People’s “shit” and to remove us from it

@sailorforlifebestti3366 5 лет назад

How did you even end up in this channel?

@voltarsystems 5 лет назад

Financial illiteracy is the problem. Government created that with the segregation. Putting more regs based in ethnicity will make it worse. Teaching people to financially literate will solve it. But also destroy government because people will realize they dont need the government.

@jtm198 5 лет назад

Yeah, I could cite an example of this every day from co-workers / family / friends. Right now its the "I can't wait for my tax return". I'm say raise your deductions and aim for a small payment on April 15th. No need to loan the government interest free money. They don't get it or don't trust themselves.

@homewall744 5 лет назад

Government is necessary, but clearly we've allowed the Feds to be too big, ignoring wise spending (budget + tax policies are unaligned), and to align to special interests over equal protection.

@matrixman8582 5 лет назад

Ending the centrally planned govt monopoly on education will allow for children to learn finance and business

@bigdurk4115 5 лет назад

mlk50.com/what-would-it-take-to-bridge-the-black-white-wealth-gap-90b326fede10

@jtm198 5 лет назад

@Rabble Repository whats the fire sector?

@DavidGS66 4 года назад

The problem with all poor neighborhoods is not that all poor people are bad but you end up with a critical mass of criminals taking control. Also rich people move away from crime rather than fighting crime.

@TheSipherArcher 5 лет назад

Respectfully, (and I'm a total libertarian) I just didn't find this comedian very funny. Sorry if you're reading this, I just wasn't feeling the timing.

@jpbochi 5 лет назад

he wasn't in the best of his game. BTW, what kind of libertarian talks about Dave Smith as "this comedian"?

@michaz.3075 5 лет назад

--- THE FIVE QUESTIONS ---- by Larken Rose 1) Is there any means by which any number of individuals can delegate to someone else the moral right to do something which none of the individuals have the moral right to do themselves? 2) Do those who wield political power (presidents, legislators, etc.) have the moral right to do things which other people do not have the moral right to do? If so, from whom and how did they acquire such a right? 3) Is there any process (e.g., constitutions, elections, legislation) by which human beings can transform an immoral act into a moral act (without changing the act itself)? 4) When law-makers and law-enforcers use coercion and force in the name of law and government, do they bear the same responsibility for their actions that anyone else would who did the same thing on his own? 5) When there is a conflict between an individual's own moral conscience, and the commands of a political authority, is the individual morally obligated to do what he personally views as wrong in order to "obey the law"? .

@Foxambereyes 5 лет назад

Eloquence itself.

@stampybear5042 5 лет назад

Daily reminder that socialism always ends in starvation and genocide. (Edit): Just finished this. Can't believe they didn't once mention the IQ difference between cultures and its effect outcomes. 1:17:54 This young man asks the single most important question of the night and was dismissed by all three man on stage. I would also add, that only voluntary diversity can ever work. And @Dave Smith, very funny stuff! Congratulations on the baby, keeping making more you legend.

@MikeSmith-fc8tw 5 лет назад

@Hans , Cuba is one of the better Latin American countries because they are mostly white people of Spanish decent.

@Sheeshening 5 лет назад

@Hans Russia could have easily been the US and Eastern Europe the Germany of modern times. Only backwards ideology has held people in destitute conditions. People didn't necessarily always starve but eastern Germany was well known for highly rationed food up to the very end of the regime. Meat was unavailable for months on end, but shortages in vegetables and fruits weren't uncommon either. Needless to say, with even just a little bit of economic freedom, such problems disappear virtually over night. oh and the Cuba with makes a ton of money via cigars and tourism, but is technologically stuck at the time of the revolution? The Cuba from which doctors are fleeing by raft? lol

@robertfield45 5 лет назад

Because the race IQ arguement is drenched in serious issues that have no clear sides. Considering that culture that deal with changing and not tradition have higher IQ. The amount of pressure in homes that value education also have higher IQ. Objectivally race and IQ are correlated not causality.

@dddavidshadowp 5 лет назад

Ya gotta love how liberals are willing to give minorities money and benefits (that cost money), in the name of helping them, but aren't willing to so much as give them basic information on how to budget money in a reasonable manner. That's just stupid. If they want to give people who make bad financial decisions money and benefits (that cost money), then THEY can pay for it, through THEIR own institutions, NOT the government.

@dddavidshadowp 5 лет назад

@SirVixIsVexed Hah, now that would be funny to watch! They would shit their pants.

@jeviosoorishas181 5 лет назад

I don't get this argument that the "government caused it, and thus shouldn't fix it", when in reality, the government STILL does cause segregation, just not on federal level as much as local and state level. Think about how much zoning, by definition, is just another example of a type of segregation. I remember growing up in my mostly white neighborhood, where there were little to no businesses, how there was nearly a revolt at the mention of possibly building a McDonalds in the area. These people were upset and said they were "scared" that it would bring in the wrong kinds of people so they decided to use the power on the local level, to prevent commerce in their area and reduce their tax burden. As a free market person I truly do believe free markets would benefits black people, I just find a lot of the people who say that kind of look away at how much power and influence is used by whites to maintain the advantages that either the Federal, State or Local Governments gave them...that they of course, fail to tell their children about, and not to mention, how much of politicians remaining in office is based on submitting to these people's will.

@Nuvendil 2 года назад

A true free market approach would be to severely curtail the zoning powere of the government at all levels. You're citing examples of government overreach. Pushed for by private individuals, yes. But the solution is to take away that power so that it cannot be abused. And Euclidean Zoning also creates class and race segregation on its own even when not coopted. It's a problem ingrained in the very nature of those policies regardless of who has the levers of power.

@homewall744 5 лет назад

School desegregation worked? No! Be the adult, not the child, and take care of yourself and get government out of the way. Government subsidies increase the price for everyone due to market pricing distortions (look at college costs, healthcare costs, housing costs and all other highly government subsidized areas), and of course the poor always find that a bigger challenge. Liberty works. Try it on, it's a great fit.

@Foxambereyes 5 лет назад

Makes sense economically. The more money you are willing to pay for something, the higher the price for that thing can be raised. And, of course, once government funds have purchased the available good or service, anyone not being supported by them has to pay the higher rate too. And the people being supported by government funds aren't the ones paying into the system, so there is no feedback loop; why would someone getting something for free be conscientious in their consumption of it, as they don't pay for it themselves because someone else with no say in the matter is paying for it?

@cybercel164 5 лет назад

Back women and you're backing society.

@UnityFromDiversity 2 года назад

In free markets you can discriminate against whoever you want for any reason you want. Profit is not the primary interest of most individuals, its survival and reproduction. People discriminate against the untrustworthy and the promiscuous.

@martinsnyder4314 2 года назад

Need less government more comsence and people treating other people the way they went to be treated.

@blazayblazay8888 5 лет назад

We were never interested in integration just the same quality of housing education etc

@mazzb305 5 лет назад

And separate but equal was always a farce. We never wanted to live amongst them, but they were/are hoarding all the resources.

@TheArris1 4 года назад

Stupid. Youve drank too much of the kool Aid. The only housing education that people need is how to build their own home.

@kazriko 5 лет назад

With the standard deduction going up, the mortgage interest deduction is basically useless now and should probably be phased out.

@nustada 5 лет назад

What is wrong with segregation, who give a fuck if people want to live next to others like themselves. The problem is force, in integration or segregation.

@FahrvergnugenTaglich 4 года назад

That makes way too much sense for most people.

@trock7542 5 лет назад

There will always be poor. The question shouldn’t be how are poor people poor but rather how are rich people rich. Destitution is natural state of humanity.

@TH3RIPPA 5 лет назад

Who are the poor people is the point.... smh

@trock7542 5 лет назад

LordSear1982 not an argument

@trock7542 5 лет назад

N0 Fcks 2 gv no the question is “why are the rich, rich”? Why does they are matter?

@TH3RIPPA 5 лет назад

@@trock7542 are u not watching the video? The men at Podium is breaking it down... it was designed for certain people to be rich. It not hard to understand the truth they tell.

@trock7542 5 лет назад

N0 Fcks 2 gv so you disagree? Babies are born with wealth from the womb? Throughout human history the masses got fat and had leisure? No of course not for the vast majority of human history people had very little surviving on less than 2$. Of course there was royalty and aristocracy who used force to acquire resources and the church to legitimize it. But then in the 18th century people starting getting rich. Successful people lead unequal lives. Why was that? Freer markets. Each individual is born with nothing each of us must strive to find our way to get what we need and then what we want.

@justinpaul3110 5 лет назад

It's inherently difficult to say that the government who created this is going to also solve this. Furthermore, this whole problem began with the notion that city planning and policy regarding housing should even exist. To top it all off, he couldn't argue a point to the affirmative without nearly constantly talking about America was still in the peak of post WWII.

@ilv1 5 лет назад

Yes, we need more government to fix it. It's not the "government" that caused segregation, it's the bad policies and intentions.

@HaZeyTheViking 5 лет назад

Imagine being 90 years old and being offended by comedy

@EmberwildeProductions 5 лет назад

The thing I like about ReasonTV is that I don't even have to watch their videos anymore. Their position is that government is always the problem and should be removed from any and every situation they address. Why bother watching a channel that has, ironically, a "one size fits all solution" to every problem?

@Nisfornarwhal1990 5 лет назад

B-but this is an entire debate....

@MilwaukeeF40C 5 лет назад

Why don't you try addressing some of the arguments?

@82394forrest 5 лет назад

Where's Dinesh??

@willard39 2 года назад

I've heard some of the dumbest ideas on here from people who obviously have no clue what it's like to try a sell or buy a home in this climate. Who can afford to pick and choose who buys your house and why would you care?

@qb4428 5 лет назад

Here's an idea: Eliminate the mortgage interest deduction regardless of how integrated neighborhoods are.

@qb4428 5 лет назад

@Hans No. Hell, public housing is more segregated than private housing, especially in leftist enclaves like NYC, so I don't know why you're proposing that as a solution.

@blueferral3414 5 лет назад

Sure, then I will charge people 500 bucks to show them how to set up a LLC. Buy their home through the LLC and then write off the interest and maintenance on their taxes. Then you can come and complain about business deductions.

@qb4428 5 лет назад

@Hans You are statistically wrong. Spending on public housing keeps going up, and NYC is still the most segregated part of America.

@dddavidshadowp 5 лет назад

@Hans Uh, maybe the poor people are leaving? Like really, if poor people are more likely to commit crimes, and the crime is going down, and people are spending more money, which poor people are frankly QUITE LIMITED in the degree to which they can participate, maybe the poor people are MOVING elsewhere!??!?

@dddavidshadowp 5 лет назад

@Hans Well in that case, why would they want to no longer be poor? Poor people get welfare and other benefits that most other people have to purchase with money that they work for. So it would make more sense for the amount of poor people to increase, no? But you said it was decreasing. How do you explain that?

@HaZeyTheViking 5 лет назад

Dave Smith is the man, strange place and time for comedy and I think he still did well, Richard Rothstein is a 90 year old sheltered child for bringing that up at the begining of the debate

@ericherrero3212 5 лет назад

Perfect upload timing 👌

@terminalogicalinexactitude5622 2 года назад

Yes..we need more.

@rumco 5 лет назад

Boring. Even the market guy sounds like half a socialist.

@brandonclobes7788 5 лет назад

rumco he said he agreed that anti discrimination law should be enforced. So disappointing.

@patriciadanon6191 2 года назад

What is not talked about here people will segregated themselves for other issues Culture is one and behavior I was born and raised and lived in a mix community I have seen once beautiful buildings destroyed by some of the people who lived in these government and private owned buildings And is not always the government and private landlords doing some renters have no respect for other people property And my story I lived in a brown stone house and I was the only Irish person in the building a Spanish family upstairs and a Spanish family downstairs I had no issues with the upstairs family but I did with the downstairs family they had party's all hours of the night At that time my daughter was a infant the music was So loud that my home felt like a earthquake was going on even the crib was moving I want downstairs to tell them that the loud music was effecting my baby they did turn it down Only to put it back up No respect so we moved We got to be honest with ourselves is the actions of Some that some don't want to rent out to and also a cultural thing a Italian will sell a home or even rent to another Italian before making a deal with me why You think we have a Irish Italian Chinese etc community's

@spencergraham-thille9896 2 года назад

The government is responsible for correcting its ills, but that's about it. It's not its job to get a certain, utopian outcome.

@ncarmstron Год назад

Despite my deep interest in the subject matter, I almost didn’t watch this after seeing the “comedian” for a couple of minutes. That was unbelievably tasteless as an introduction to a scholarly presentation. I sense that Rothstein came close to walking out. He really should have IMO.

@Sheeshening 5 лет назад

1:18:00 That's Coleman Hughes! oh and terrible performance answering his clearly relevant points

@danielwyvern5 5 лет назад

Sheesh - These two idiots could only wish they had the courage and intellectual honesty that Coleman Hughes possesses.

@justinpaul3110 5 лет назад

I picked up on that too! Man did he crushed them both on that question.

@kredit787 5 лет назад

People segregate themselves because they prefer to live amongst their own kind, government didn't create or cause this, only legalized it in the past. There isn't only monetary profit to strive for, often people want certain things more than financial gain like to live in a safe and familiar environment.

@TH3RIPPA 5 лет назад

Shame on the black kid for try to belittle his own people while three white older men try to help us. I tell u we are our own enemy. Im Glad those men shut him down.

@cmichelle9986 5 лет назад

CANARY I’m hoping this is sarcasm

@hiplivingandwellness2384 3 года назад

Bullshit . If profit overcame racism , these dam developers wouldn't hesitate to invest in these communities upfront in a major way . If it's not about public policy then the wealthy developers and bankers would stop shutting out black contractors when it comes to government subsidized development in our cities . The dude debating Rothstein is stuck on trickle down economics model. But these companies get the trickle up government treatment .

@djwphx 4 года назад

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 substantially reduced the value of the home mortgage interest deduction. The doubling of the standard deduction makes the hurdle for itemized deductions much harder to reach. Eliminating the home mortgage interest deduction is not going to help reduce segregation.

@magister343 5 лет назад

Both of these men, and frankly everyone, really ought to read the works of Henry George.

@slyguythreeonetwonine3172 5 лет назад

*No.*

@sailorforlifebestti3366 5 лет назад

Roestien again well researched.

@slybuford 5 лет назад

So who's going to mention how offensive that comedian was at the beginning? Is this subject suppose to be a joke? Who hires someone with offensive jokes like that right before a serious debate (which is not suppose to be a debate in the first place because we all know America owes African Americans a large check for free labor).

@FahrvergnugenTaglich 4 года назад

You have no idea who Dave Smith is. You probably do not even know who Gene Epstein is. If you are offended by those JOKES you are probably too sensitive and emotional even to debate this topic.

@zachariahphillips 5 лет назад

13:29 Hahahaha, wtf.

@brandonclobes7788 5 лет назад

Zachariah Phillips ikr! I was like ohhhhhh shit!!

@tedphillips2501 5 лет назад

The government did not cause housing segregation. The apartheid of suburbia started after WWII by developers like Levitt, as in Levittown, not selling to blacks. This was combined with the red lining practice of the Rockefeller, Mellon and other banks to corral blacks into non-white neighborhoods. The Fair Housing Act has partially addressed this. The government's ongoing role in this is in providing black neighborhoods with the worst schools. Even Milton Friedman acknowledged this.

@ktp0913 9 месяцев назад

Like rothstein said no banks would guarantee a loan to him the federal government was the only entity that would guarantee the loan with the agreement that he would not sell to non Caucasian ethnic group.

@JSmusiqalthinka 4 года назад

For a channel called ReasonTV, it's interesting that no one in the comments actually addresses the arguments. Lots of euphemismistic racism and chanting talking points like they're a fuckin mantra.

@DarnellHendeason-dk3uw 5 лет назад

Reparations for Black Americans

@michaelpaliden6660 5 лет назад

@truthseeker3397 5 лет назад

Nice try Coleman hughes #narratives

@greamegustave 5 лет назад

This guy is needs to read up about Africa onlyway he'll know what he's saying is not accurate and more about America also

@mehrshadvr4 3 года назад

Lmao look at how Americans lived before public housing.

@keithhill1985 5 лет назад

Wait this argument is the old childish argument he hit me so I get to hit him. I thought we were adults but I guess some never grew up.

@jsphfalcon 5 лет назад

Cloak and dagger stuff. Good luck.

@Watcher4187 5 лет назад

Video starts at 12:25 for those not wanting more "wonderful" comedy before their intellectual debates.

@hameggs4837 5 лет назад

Great.

@cmichelle9986 5 лет назад

The thought of a 5 week old being a vocal racist is hilarious. I love Dave Smith

@TenderRage 3 года назад

Quite hysterical, not... in absolute poor taste when you think that you're speaking to an audience that has never been victimized for the color of their skin...and lack of accessibility... There's something insidious about this completely.

@cxa340 2 года назад

The problem with your statement is that it is for the most part factually incorrect. Housing segregation was not wide-spread, in fact policies like red lining did not exist in most states and only in a handful of democrat run cities like Detroit and Philadelphia, what’s more both of those cities had up until the 2nd great migration diverse and multi-racial communities (more than today) that reversed after the 2nd migration when middle class blacks and middle class whites left the city core to escape the crime and violence brought by newly moved blacks from the South who reflected a poor White northern England culture of violence, drunkenness, criminality and sloth. Many of these same cities today still reflect this great cultural change with the existence of almost completely black upper class suburbs that became enclaves for northern blacks to escape the newly moved southern blacks - Bratenall in Cleveland being once example where a city that never had red lining or housing discrimination in a state that never had segregation reflects how upper class blacks moved to escape their own race while southern blacks moved into East Cleveland - a city that even today ranks as one of the poorest, most violent, and socially destructive reflecting generations of cultural decline in a community run by blacks for blacks with the help of government programs. Remember also there is not just the red-lining type of discrimination but the discrimination by criminality, practiced by blacks against other minority groups, that is used to keep people out of neighborhoods. Institutional black violence was used as a weapon in Los Angeles in the 1980’s and 90’s by leaders of the black community to discriminate against and encourage violence against Salvadorans who had begun moving into these black neighborhoods as they moved to the US to escape the leftist supported civil war in their country attempting to overthrow democratically elected governments. The results was the formation of the pandillas as gangs in Los Angeles for protection against the organized violence blacks committed against Salvadorans - now we know the result of this systemic black violence has been the cost of over 1mm Central American lives as the gangs that formed as a result of this systemic violence exported their own methods back to their home country.

@ktp0913 9 месяцев назад

@@cxa340this is very interesting.

@erikkovacs3097 5 лет назад

Hey Richard! If you wouldn't have agreed to the debate knowing that "bigoted" comic would open for you, why did you go through with it. Stick by your principles and leave. No one is forcing you to do it. That statement is just virtue signaling.

@barbarabrooks4747 2 года назад

Private real estate deeds and bank practices have led to segregation. I think that instead of subsidizing apartments in big cities, people should get housing and moving assistance to go to a cheaper place. If they have an extended family with some people who are not poor, they could be educated about getting a huge mobile home or learning to restore used mobile homes. I think the right program could get children in better schools and decrease dependency. Churches and lodges could be encouraged to adopt these families, while a social worker could help them with their dental and medical needs. Democratic mayors want money to stay in their cities. It would be cheaper to offer them relocation instead of Section 8. We need to empty slums and avoid concentrations of poor people.

@holycrapchris 5 лет назад

I like these long videos. But cut out the opening comedian; he's a distraction from the conversation.

@republitarian484 2 года назад

As if integration is working LOL!

@FifthConcerto 5 лет назад

We have not made the progress in desegregation Howard implies because the integration we see isn't always of a specific two races? MLK day was two days ago. I don't care what the color of Richard's skin is, a comment like this makes me question the content of his character. Nevermind the validity of his point. If Howard didn't win 45 minutes in, I am quite confused.

@bigdurk4115 5 лет назад

mlk50.com/what-would-it-take-to-bridge-the-black-white-wealth-gap-90b326fede10

@LatashaboydgooglecomBoyd Год назад

While creating all the neighborhoods goods is they going to undue the damage? Cause my recorded is damaged all because the public officials sat around to help with it to keep me at this stage.