Grabs and The Grab Range Tier List - Smash Mechanics 

So I was actually incorrect about the hitboxes on the grabs, its the other way around. Meaning the grabs effectively have less range when trying to grab aerial opponents. Sorry about that!

It's actually kinda nutty how good gunners grab range is considering it's frame 6. It's actually the best 6 frame grab in the game by a good bit.

I don't know why, but Greninja's pivot grab is just enormous. If you included those grabs, his is among the best

5:45 Actually, their grab range was terrible in Melee and Brawl as well. This was actually relevant in certain matchups in Brawl, there was a few characters in Brawl (such as ZSS, Toon Link, and Peach) that had a winning matchup against them purely because the character is too slippery for the ICs to catch.

I dunno is this was the intention or not, but I think the misplaced verticalness of Ryu/Ken's grabs might be a reference to street fighter in that you can't grab airborne opponents normally.

I absolutely hate the deceptively short grab ranges on some characters.

It's weird. Cause small characters like Pikachu and pichu have very short ranges that extend outside their own hit box, but *technically* have the same range as other characters whose grab hit boxes are more disjointed. Very weird.

Still find it crazy that palutena’s grab used to be even more disjointed at at 15 range. I can understand other characters like Zelda having a higher grab range cause either magic or extending their hurtbox, but palutena just standing still and reaching that far is still ridiculous to this day.

I play Hero for fun and keep wondering why he couldn't grab when it looked like they were close enough. Now I know why, thank you so much.

The reference to the infamous "Kind Dedede" typo from Dream Land 3 at 9:51 made me chuckle out loud; good job, lol

So fortunate for us that Dedede decided to be kind today.

i feel like you should add the frame data to these as well, it would make the reasoning behind the size more apparent also its weird seeing pikachu and sora have the same grab size but pika's is obviously more negatively disjointed, going with the theme of it having a bad grab like how they normally do.

Funny thing about Ryu and Ken's grab box displacement, in SFIII (and probably most SF games), grab boxes come from a characters foot. Probably just a coincidence that they're both so displaced, but I think it's pretty neat.

The thing is in most situations the size of the grab hitbox is largely irrelevant and just there to match the model and pose they take while grabbing. What is a much more effective measurement of grabs in terms of utility is the distance from standing as well as the disjoint. Heavy leaning animations like Melee Marth (especially since melee has JC grab) lets them whiff punish with a grab at spacings others can't, and disjoint like Palu has, as mentioned; lets her just flat out beat hitboxes that would have hit her if not for the disjoint. If you measure it that way instead the list looks extremely different. Large grab boxes inside of the model are only really useful for large characters who the opponent can frequently end up partially inside of the animation like Bowser and DK, or for very fast characters, usually those who have an animation that moves them from their standing location slightly, and so could miss in a scramble, seen in characters like Falcon or Pika/Pichu. After 64 Pika had one of the worst grab ranges in the game because the grab hitbox had basically no range outside of the character model, and that was only fixed in Ult when they just buffed the overall size of the hitbox.

Lmao nice Luigi on the thumbnail

Never underestimate Pac-Man's new grab, it's so big and disjointed, and lasts so long it'll suck you in like a vortex if you try to punish it

giving the whole "you can't complain about these characters' grab ranges now" while brushing past how puff and pichu's grabs are 90% inside their own hurtbox feels a 'lil silly; raw ranges ain't created equal, which you touched on for palu/zelda's disjoints but not the inverse

Length isnt what people are mad about, but moreso how disjointed the grabs are. A lot of grabs in this game are accurate to the model, unlike other games where characters had at least some amount of disjoint

In terms of mechanics you could cover, maybe it's time you descended into the rabbit hole of the terrible mechanic known as the gravity penalty, or GravPen!

The thing I most want for grab range is that I want the ability to grab shields instead of just the character through shield. This will end those funky cases where the entire arm goes into the shield without grabbing, and it will make shielding actually negatively useful against grabs

I have to admit. Before I realized that Zeckmyro's Icon was thd startup to Luigi Up B I always thought that Zeckmyro's Icon had a hitbox on his nose.

Ridley would have one of the best grabs in the game if he just fully extended his arms

Ah yes, my favorite Smash character: Kind Dedede at 9:52

1:35 Shulk go zoom 9:54 Kind Dedede

something to note about mac: while his standing grab is ok, his dash grab is actual garbage, but there’s a tech that while not unique to mac, is mostly helpful to him because of his very large initial dash and roll range, where Mac inputs initial dash, cancels initial dash with shield, then buffering a shield grab, letting mac add his initial dash and roll range to his standing grab range, giving him equivalent range to samus’ and dark samus’ tether

ice climbers: hey can we get some more grab range we only have ten samus: you've had your fun

I would love to see the frame data on the grabs as well. Like greninja has a longer grab than normal but feels unusably slow

Loved the video! do one on get up attacks and legde attacks!

I really wish they'd've buffed Ike's grab range a bit. Since he's so much slower than the other characters tied with him for grab range it's a lot harder for him to take advantage of his throws.

9:07 iirc Mii Gunner has the longest ranged frame 6 standing grab in the game.

EVERY TIMESTAMP OF WHEN HE SAYS pikmin IN THE VIDEO, TOTAL OF 21 TIMES + 1 PLURAL! 10:22 10:25 10:28 10:31 10:54 10:56 10:57 11:18 11:22 11:26 11:30 11:44 11:45 12:03 12:04 12:05 12:22 12:23 12:48 12:48 12:55 13:06 11:22 has pikmin with an S but it counts. 12:48 yes there are 2 pikmin in one second. If you know, you know.

This video really GRABBED my attention

As a pokemon trainer you've made me realize I should reeeeeally be using grabs more. Also wow I should abuse the fuck out of ivy's grab lmao

Guess Bowser got his revenge by swapping grab ranges with Marth.

(1:00) Agreed; mashing in any game I really dislike. Imaging instead if you could "counter" the pummels by pressing the attack/grab button as the pummel hits you, to reduce the damage. So you'll still have some mechanic to do something when grabbed, but it's not destroying the controller.

Cool video. I wonder how youre measuring length. Is it relative to how close you can stand (so touching characters = 0 range and it measures the separation)? Or just foot position? Or something else maybe?

I find it hilarious that pichu has a 0.1u longer grab than pikachu. The baby version that is mostly identical can reach further for literally no reason at all, i love that so much

Well you see, white pikmen aren’t actually that great for grabbing. Big range, but not that much damage or power. But blue is great

It would be interesting if you went over boost grabs as well. Pichu, pit and shiek get significantly better when you take those into account

Great video!

I thought Sephiroth’s grab would be ranked lower. And wow I had no idea Mac’s grab got buffed from 4.

I love that piranha plant has a bigger grab range than ganon despite not having limbs

"At 11.9 we have pikachu and zorua" (Among us impostor noise.)

I love when my characters wraps their arms around someone's ginormous head and instead of grabbing them there's just a little push

I'm so glad King Dedede has finally become Kind

I think it would've made more sense to measure from the edge of the character's chest hitbox (or collision box if those exist here) to the tip of the grab hitbox to account for how characters can't stand inside each other in Ultimate

We need to see R.O.B's hitboxes next xD i have a feeling that it'll be funky lol

Oh ye, grabbin things. Another good vid my man.

just wondering what was palutena's value before the nerf? because i remember it being kinda nutty

you should do this from the end of their standing hurtbox to the end of the grab because unit collision makes it so that many of the larger bodied characters (like ridley, rob, and DDD) can't use most of their grab length

I’m glad I watched this. I main fox and wario and after playing wario for a while and switching to fox I would miss grabs constantly and could not understand what was happening. Now I know lol

Funny you didn't mention Ganon bodyblocking his own grabs, making the range much smaller (although variable, which is admittedly a bit outside the scope of this video). He really doesn't get a break in this game. Oh, well, at least he has his command grabs, which are actually stellar.

Based opinion on mashing mechanics: it's just not fun at all in any game with it and here it also has the potential of making you perform accidental inputs

I see Dedede only has a top tier grab range when being nice

(1:00) Is there any details of how exactly mashing works? Which buttons can be used? How often are inputs registered? As in, can you get really good results without having to destroy the controller?

0:59 This does bring up something that I've been thinking. I get that coding is hard and that Rome wasn't built in a day though these people are probably masters of their trade and so certain issues that shouldn't be there in the first place kind of make you wonder what is actually going on with the developers aside from Sakurai and about how Nintendo Studios design games. Just some food for thought from someone who has never coded a single project in his life and a curious question I've been having in my head for a while now, since I don't really 100% understand the scale and magnitude of these games from the eyes of much more experienced teams and I think that it would be cool and neat if Nintendo could explain that to its fans. Maybe upload something on their Social Media or give us some in-game "Developers Journals", something neat like that for reference.

I just lost it when we cut to gameplay to see Shulk plummeting to the depths of Hell with Backslash

I know it is like inhumanely possible, but I could have sworn you can mash out of Incineroar's side B. I think I found it from one of the beefy smash dude's videos.

One thing I was thinking is that they could add a crouch grab to also hit opponents lying on the floor (missed-tech)

Is there frame data associated with acting out of dashes like dashdancing, foxtrotting, or instant dash attacks if that's of any significance? I think that'd be a neat thing to look into, though unsure how useful

Maybe for the next mechanics cover wall jump/cling/tech/other interactions. They seem really derpy and I can never quite get how they do what they do

Nice thumbnail. Luigi's really packing that plunger

Why does squirtle have a kill throw. Ganon the master of evil has no kill throw but a turtle can toss you into the shadow realm

7:27 LOL, this made me laugh so hard, I main cloud and I complain about his grab range a lot. Good to know that his is actually pretty standard

0:40 - 4:15 nice info on grabs 60 frames (1 sec) for a re-grab and some characters having ungrabable parts

I just want to know that nice sound that plays in the end

10:39 *Big purple rod coming out between big purple DK's legs* Impressive indeed

Luigis grab is super jank

If it weren't for the length of the hitboxes, the thumbnail would be very suggestive

Really surprised by Sephiroth grab, I always feel like it's inexistant when I play Tho it might be because, looking at his animation being like magically grab and holding your opponent in place instead of literally grabbing it in his hand, I expected him to have a similar grab to Mewtwo, definitly not to Cloud or Belmonts

A new Smash Mechanics, surprising

2:00 clutch sonic matchup knowledge

If there were to be a grab tier list you gotta include the speed and hurtbox shifting of a grab besides it's range Crazy Steve got an antiair grab

Can I just say it is hilarious that Pichu grabs Bowser by the nose 0:42

props to Pacman for the largest Grab that isn't a projectile of sorts

Can you do a tier list for Standing grab oos? It would change up the list because some characters like rob have a bad range oos because a lot of the grab is in his body. Also, some characters like Meta Knight don't shift forward so being pushed off the shield because of collusion outranges the standing grab.

9:55 Kind Dedede

Min Min needs it as her grab has the slowest startup in the game

Ganons grab range should not be worse than Roys and Chroms. I could see if it was frame 6 but it's frame 8, the same as Bowsers and K. Rools which has SIGNIFICANTLY better range at 20 units rather than than the sorry a$$ 14 units.

I wanna see grab range with grab speed ranked, like byleth grab is slightly better than banjo, banjo has .9 more than byleth but comes out a frame faster, where joker is a lot better than little mac, joker has .6 less range but it comes out 3 frames Faster. And tether grabs could be separate from normal ones if need be, but that’s up to you

Do fall speed, it doesn't get talked about nearly enough yet it's so important.

At least Inkling has a long Dash Grab! yay!

do different characters have different item throw distances?

Because Hitgrabs are also grabs, so they trade with grabs or do they beat them because they're hitboxes, as well?

I laughed at IC’s range knowing how ironic it was - was this the same in their previous appearances as well, or a sure fire why to prevent IC’s inherently broken nature?

Luigi is packing in that thumbnail.

Everytime I see Hero's grab range. My soul just dies

One tier list I think would be fun is an Airdodge/Airdodege distance tier list. We always say Ness has the best but HOW good is it compared to other characters?

1:58 (talking about gameplay the background) CPU moment.

Could you do a follow up video on little mac? Im intrested to see if your impression of his viability in ultimate has changed

Okay so something I wish was mentioned is hitbox placement, so cloud and pyra and mythra have the exact same hitbox but pyra/mythra's is clearly much better because the hitbox is placed closer to the fingertips, clouds grab only extends like a pixel past his fingers while pyra mythra have a big ass disjoint

The one thing no one noticed is that this video doesn't account for where the grabbox is placed on a character for example Ness and pythra have the same grabbox but ness' is halfway through his model and since you can't pass through characters in this game his grab range is actually shorter than shown but since pythra's is barely through their model they have a larger grab range than shown

"Popo's And Nana's Passable and Neat" hitboxes ?

You got me started. I play much of the cast at this point

bruh luigi is packing in the thumbnail

9:52 ah yes. Good ol' Kind Dedede

Ness literally holds you with psychokinesis why does he need to grab you physically with his hands

We're did you find the grab immune hurtboxes

So charizard tiny dragon Arms has the best grab range that isn’t a teather or a range grab Patrick Makes sense to me

Huh .. weird how certain grabs feel to be more ranged, but they arent and vise versa. I thought that sephiroths grab range was dog shit. Or hell even ganon too lol