Grace Millane Case Analysis | Rough Sex Defense 

Lol!!! 😂😂

Yes 🙌🏼

This is excellent. :0)

You are Hilarious!!! 😂

You need a dry dad joke in there too, like "I suppose his favorite TV show is Lawn and Order" as only our good doctor can manage.

I think that as choking goes, "too far" means "at all".

@@JiveDadson it’s ok if people like rough sex, and some people have a kink for choking..but that sort of choking isint supposed to be deadly. It’s not like the goal is to crush the persons neck..it’s like light-medium squeezes for maybe 10-20 seconds or less. Not sitting there for 5 minuets plus feeling someone stop breathing and struggle for their life. So it’s a pretty sharp contrast.

I think you underestimate the power of an orgasm.

Think you probably need to do some research and see what the young ones (and others) are into these days.

@@BellaLeoLicorice You mean squat cobbler?

Milliane played a part in becoming a victim through her questionable actions. I'm not are if you know that in New Zealand prostitutes often use the site. Milliane used

Lifetime movies?

Certainly not to a date!

Yes many gems this time.

What about Dexter? Lol

They did in the middle ages idiot, do your research.

It also takes a lot of strength to strangle someone to death. So he wasn't doing it lightly in the slightest.

I am not trying to defend sexual predators in any way. I am just an athlete, who participated in Judo competitions up to the national level. As such I have plenty of real life, first hand experience in strangling people, who even also tried to defend themselves, since this is a legal technique in Judo. There are two kinds of strangulation: In the first one you cut off the air intake of the whole body by blocking the windpipe.Which takes some time. The other kind of strangulation: you block the carotid arteries in the neck and you stop the direct blood flow from the lungs to the brain. I never used a stopwatch :-D. But I would estimate it takes four seconds for a man to become unconscious. And in contrast to EPs post, the strangling motion itself also takes nearly no force, if you are able to hold down the other person with your bodyweight. I obviously never strangled somebody to death. So I cant tell you how long this takes. But it wouldnt be logic, if this would take very long. But this even supports your point: it sounds very strange (specially for me) but as a Judoka you are actually in the same situation as someone non criminal, "non violent" who participates in consensual strangling sex: you want to go to a point close to/of unconsciousness. But not to a point of death. And its possible: I have never heard of a fatal accident in Judo or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, while plenty of people got choked out in competitions over time.

@@scheisstag well, there's a big difference between just unconscious and dead, it takes much more time to kill the brain.

@@melodi996 I can only repeat myself: "I obviously never strangled somebody to death. So I cant tell you how long this takes. But it wouldnt be logic, if this would take very long." Again you have to differentiate between choking: restricting the air intake and choking: restricting the bloodflow to the brain. I mean: if you restrict the blood flow, the brain shuts down, because the cells dont get enough oxygen to work. So there is no oxygen left. And the brain cells also need oxygen to exist.... The state of the art rule for first aid is nowadays, that you keep compressing the heart to keep the blood flowing, while you dont breath into the persons nose or mouth any more. Because the oxygen in the blood of the whole body is enough to survive until the medics arrive. So the amount of oxygen in the body seems to be sufficient for 6 or up to ten minutes. That means, if you only stop the air intace of a person, this person will survive for quite some time on the oxygen in the body. Which seems not to be the case, if the brain is not provided with oxygen via bloodflow: because thats the only reason why you have to administer the compression: because without chest compression the person would die much faster and before the medics arrive. There you have it: without bloodflow to the brain you die much faster than 6 or seven minutes.... Cant tell you how long exactly . I would assume in less than a minute.

I think anyone who saw George, Floyd's death would know how long it takes to asphyxiate someone. And Mr Floyd was choked to death by being knelt on so it probably took longer than if he'd been strangled with both hands round his neck. After about a full sixty seconds to two minutes it would become intentional rather than accidental, imo.

And the fact that her mother couldn't come to NZ with her husband when Grace was missing because she was battling cancer too at that time.

I didn't realise this, god how sad, and how awful to hear suggestions that your daughter liked "rough sex" xx

it must have been so painful for cancer ridden parents to let her travel for rough sex.

@@leeanncrowley-davies7628 Well, she didn't exactly like vanilla-plain sex, did she? She played with fire. I feel sorry for the dad, too. What a way to go.

I think it showcases the guy's arrogance. He probably expected to get away with it.

Yeah, they showed all of that on a true crime channel a few weeks ago. His defence was disgusting.

Yes that did stand out - so many cases in the US fall down because of grainy or non existent CCTV where there should have been coverage. Some people don't like that they're being videoed but this case shows it is worth it and if it catches out just one creep like Kempson it is worth it.

It was almost as though his every move was being filmed. A frightening level of public surveillance.

@@Seabird41 What he did was frightening not the public surveillance.

They will say that to try to escape severe sentencing, but he went on another date after killing grace

Yeah, those actions reveal his motive.

She was his first kill and hopefully his last. Personally I have to know someone really well before I commit to a relationship. But not everyone is boring like me🙂. Grace had a lovely family so took everyone at face value.

Richard - I agree :)

They seem ahead of the U.S as far as that sort of thing goes.

@@digitaluser1255 as said before. If it’s consensual and done with respect then it dosnt matter. If there is safe words and checking in on each other ect then the chance for murder is lowered.

@@puccipuu1797 There should be zero chance of homicide. If one person is in distress due to an accident, the other would immediately call paramedics and begin resuscitation --- if it was an accident. But a diabolical killer might do that to make a murder look like an accident. Maybe Dr. Grande is right. Forget the choking part.

@@l.w.paradis2108 Quite right.It's been 28 years since it was adjudicated that a person cannot legally consent to actual bodily harm because bodily harm with the intent to do that is absolutely illegal.

It's not in New Zealand tho where this happened!

Justine Brown's Bookshelf, True, especially when looking for a choking partner. Not putting blame on her, of course, but just as a general suggestion.

Lol friends of friends can still be psycho

@@tessajones9393 Obviously, what I suggest is not a panacea. But it will hugely improve the probabilities.

@@tessajones9393 , Yeah, maybe some slightly lighter form of kink on the first date might be wise also.

@jojofromtx As always, the exception proves the rule.

A life changing experience I’m sure

100% absolutely

This comment makes the most sense out of all of them. Great point! 👍

Exactly. People engaging in BDSM usually have a pre-arranged code word for the sub that signifies they want the sadistic activity to cease, such as for example if the sub shouts "red" that is a signal for the dominator to immediately stop and desist. I don't personally indulge in this kind of thing, so I wouldn't know if there's a reason why someone being strangulated can't perhaps slap like is done in strangleholds in Judo, which means that the person performing the strangulation, should stop. But it would make sense to me that there would be such a failsafe that the strangled person can employ to signal that things are going too far. A possible complicating factor might be, I suspect, that strangulation and orgasm might have a link - after all, it does produce a similar kind of dizzyness, which would maybe make the person being strangled not realize that they are about to lose consciousness, but surely the person doing the strangling should realize that he/she is going too far and that the other person has passed out. No, my gut tells me that Dr Grande is quite right in that in a case like this one, it's got to be murder. Especially with the added component of the accused not showing remorse or anguish over the death. There might be another side to that story, though, that I'm failing to see.

Very good point.

@@jenniferh7020 Thanks Jennifer. I was casually reading the comments and it struck a chord with me. The whole "choke me" thing, I never really got but I am surprised by the amount of women that ask for this... I had a girlfriend that for her, this was a deal-breaker in terms of sexual fulfillment. I tried my best but just felt really uncomfortable with it - it's not 'sexy' or anything when you have a naked unconscious woman in your bed! Couldn't do it anymore and we split up. I just hope she found someone who could fulfill her needs and that she is happy.

I would lose my absolute shit if that was me

I love where he says "Avoid serial killers.." XD

@@jenniferh7020 I know. Right. He's hilarious.🤣

You may relate to that statement but I'll politefully suggest there have been words spoken more true

I actually do listen to him to fall asleep. He seems to be able to talk the horror out of any event. I find that really really calming... and relaxing and reassuring.

@@annenextdoor612 He is so calm and measured when talking about shovels and burying bodies. Remarkable.

I used his videos to fall asleep my entire pregnancy lol and now too

I don’t like ASMR but fall asleep to old Dr Grande videos. Never the new ones!

I do this too

I will not defend that defense, but that's not what it is literally or (more accurately) figuratively.

yea , ive heard from someone who killed by choking and he said that it was harder then he thought to kill them. this guy definitly knew

@@rockyevans1584 uh yeah it is.

@@beefortebrea9386 not at all, if you care to clarify your position I'm all ears. That's nonsense tho, don't be so emotional

I need the tension release, and the sense of having some power over my fate. These types of criminals haunt me. I know it could happen to anyone. Knowledge gives us some power. Laughing breaks up the shiver going down my spine.

xDDDD

Not really interesting to the family is it? Did you see the dad at the press conference he had a nervous breakdown due to overwhelming grief. Something a bit distasteful about this. Feels like it’s just entertainment, Grande smiling on the thumbnail with the rough sex caption. It’s a bit sick.

@@katiemiaana I can’t even imagine what her family is going through. For me, these videos are “interesting” in the sense that they attempt to explain what is going on in the perpetrator’s head, what makes someone do such horrendous things. If a story like this is in the news, it’s most likely been sensationalized to the point of being extremely upsetting. It’s “interesting” for me to hear a calmly explained, well informed analysis of these horrendous cases. Over the months of watching, these videos have also helped me make sense of what might be going on with difficult patients I’ve had to deal with (I’m in healthcare) as mental health training is greatly lacking. And my comment should probably read “I appreciate your analysis” instead of using the word “interesting”. I do see your point. Thank you.

@James Rossi I like Dr Grande. But he does make jokes at the expense of young female crime victims. Which is distasteful, this is a pattern I've noticed with Dr Grande.

@@leonieromanes7265 He makes jokes about the KILLERS and not the victims, which is in my opinion nto a horrible hting because a lot of these morons actually take '' pride '' in their '' work '' because people end up making documentaries about them, when instead they should be mocked for being sick losers who can only get off to hurting others. Maybe if they would be known and laughed at as disgusting losers it would change some people's minds

@@katiemiaana Graces Dad got cancer after her death and he died a week before sentencing

@@christophekeating21 what are you on about? What’s that got to do with this? Why even bring it up?

@@gurutruecrimeguru1405 I know.

Unfortunately there have been a couple cases where someone did. There was the case of Bernd Brandes who consented to being eaten by a cannibal.

@@dannycarrington1601 Yeah, except you can poll 5 million people from any random country, and i imagine all of them would give a hard 'no' in regards to being cannibalized. Did something that flimsy actually get taken seriously?

@@mc_zittrer8793 Armin Meiwes, the cannibal, was originally only convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to 8 1/2 years. He was later retried, convicted of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment. This case was in Germany where retrying a convict for a more serious offense is legal, this would not have been allowed in the U.S. When Meiwes was featured in the German press there were many personal ads placed by people either wanting to be cannibalized or seeking victims.

Correction: some people do sometimes consent to being killed.

But accidents do happen. People accidentally kill their selves when trying to choke their selves while masturbating. Not saying that happened with this case but it is entirely possible.

But for sadists and narcissists "torture" is pleasure. Definition of such term is subjective. So who wins in toeture and pleasure definition?

No shit Sherlock!

​@Pois Chiche It's more like she shouldn't have put herself in the position to be vulnerable like that with someone she had almost zero history with. Her "fault" in this is NOT that she was into BDSM. Two consenting trusting people can have whatever relationship they want. The issue with what she did is that she essentially offered herself up on a platter to a stranger who in a way was her preferred highest bidder. Have you even seen the Hostel movies? Kind of reminds me of that. Yes, he may not have paid for her, but he ticked all the right boxes in the right places for her, and then it was off to the races (or gallows)!

​@Pois Chiche Well, I am assuming that you never have NOR ever will fornicate at all since you cast that stone, so that's good for you. Otherwise that would be hypocritical. Yes, she seemed to be a dim-witted and slutty individual, but she did not deserve to be executed for that. However, in the end it does not matter one iota. She paid a heavy price for her lust and desire for attention. But it is not our role to judge. Humans have no legs to stand on.

@@GeistInTheMachine so you're saying this was her fault. Not the muderer's fault.

I wonder if it would have been possible to give him a longer non-parole period, and, if so, why didn’t the judge give him the maximum. Also, Jesse was initially given a lot of leeway in this case, for example, his name and face were initially withheld from the public by the media even though he wasn't a minor. His parents/family must have connections (the usual intel community connections).

I agree. Some people don't value their life. I was also annoyed at all the tearful vigils, etc, here in NZ. They do this for tourists that die, but not local women!

Yup! The motivation to strangle a woman during sex is the same motivation to eventually kill her.

Seconded haha!!!

I know a lot of people are interested in murder stories and stuff but, if we would actually watch murder videos, would people feel the same thing?

Not in my experience...

There are all types of "players" and unfortunately just because you say you're careful doesn't mean half pr even most of "the community" is careful. There's entire groups where their fantasy is rough sex with strangers. So...

I think it's completely ok to be kinky but probably not with some stranger from tinder.

It is never safe to restrict someone's breathing.

I'm not sure what the point would be of a psychological examination of those two. An examination of the evidence in, say, the Venona files would be more useful.

He has many videos on this topic. Look at his older videos. 🙂

I think they're highly skilled at reading and manipulating people, for their own gratification. Perhaps that's what they mean by mindfulness. Narcissists do like to portray themselves as special, it's a large part of their disorder.🙂

@@joannecraft9842 I have watched but I would like a more in depth narrow video about insightfullness and mindfullness/DBT effectiveness on certain type of disorders. Narcissism is just easiest to notice. the presentations can be fairly pronounced

Description of Me every time I watch porn

@@mysteryjunkie9808 description of us all every time we watch porn 😂😂😂😂

@@pembrokelove if you're feeling the need to apologize for the porn you watch, you should seek therapy.

Bizzare childhoods and acting go together I think. There is some connectionn between the ease of becoming another person and the dissociation of childhood PTSD.

Yes he had it rough that's for sure, never able to form interpersonal relationships well

I know right😅

He and Mike Oh from That Chapter. Dry, droll and laconic. Love it

Very low self esteem women...

@@infamousla815, quite the opposite, actually. These were extremely confident, assertive, "Type A" individuals in their daily lives. It was almost as though being dominant over others so effortlessly in everyday, "normal" life made them attracted to being the exact opposite (by extremes) in their sex lives. It was weird...

@@thatpointinlife hard to believe. Maybe they were covering their innate insecurity from you. But I do believe that's been your experience. Not mine though..lol..

It's not just women. There are men also who enjoy violent submission.

@@nighttrain1236, different strokes for different folks...

I wonder if there was even a strong attempt to catch the murderers of the gay men back then.

What you are actually supposed to do is cut off the carotid artery’s blood flow not the air supply of the Trachea. So the person will become lightheaded dizzy and with restricted blood flow more will go to the genitalia’s causing them to become more sensitive and and more powerful orgasm. Also just releasing it allows the blood to return and recovery in just a few seconds

@@mysteryjunkie9808 It's still unsafe, there is no safe way of choking/strangulation. it's a risky kink.

I'd say using Tinder is a much bigger risk.

An extremely dangerous practice that has now become common practice due to the over consumption of porn.

Now I'm curious , what did it say??

@@FreeminderXIII Something like '2 can keep a secret when one of them is dead'

@@katyr2382 wow that's a strange thing to say regardless of what happened

@@FreeminderXIII agreed. That’s quite disturbing

How do you know that she left it? Maybe he used her phone to post it.

Yessss please!!!! Good request

Fell asleep In the shower, wait what.

@@daveycrocker4466 oh yeah....i do that alllllll the time

Exactly! Asphyxiation is cutting off the oxygen supply to the brain. How anyone can think that undergoing asphyxiation is fine and dandy is either unaware of what asphyxiation is (and therefore doesn't care to look this up) or doesn't give a damn about their partner. There are methods to do this other than by choking and NONE of them are safe. But, apparently, the BDSM proponents consider anyone pointing out facts warning about the dangers of their habits is "kink shaming".

@@michellegosse5597 Exactly like that. I know it was using in Japan, like some message. With some sort of scarf, they have been stopped breathing for several seconds. After it was popular everywhere. Maybe in different form they used earlier in the West. The rest you wrote. Supply the brain with oxygen. It is dangerous.

Denial is a river. You have to claim him. He is in your jail. He is there so you don't have to unwittingly meet him.

@@mrparlanejxtra He may be in our jails but he isn't one of us.

@@simone6888 He is a new Zealander. He is one of us.

@@pearlbonnie1369 He can be part of your whānau then cause he ain't in mine.

@@simone6888 Don't be silly. He is a new Zealander. That means he is a new Zealander. He is one of us, new Zealanders. It has nothing to do with families.

There is ethical and unethical BDSM. Ethical respects the wishes and safety of all parties involved (consent, negotiation, means of communication, safety rules and limits, demonstrating and practising these values etc).

In my opinion I think anybody who is turned on or engage in BDSM are mentally deranged.

@@rask004 I’m all for ethical play, but merely applying a more skeptical lens to those that express interest in this type of thing is probably a safer bet. Stay safe and know who you’re with!

@@manilanoakes3966 kinda agree, not sure how normal it is to intertwine pain with pleasure. To each his own I suppose.

@@manilanoakes3966 It is the definition of "she was asking for it".