GREECE: Who came before the ancient Greeks? 

DNA shows the Mycenaeans were Greeks as well.

@@baarbacoa I know.

Linear B is generally considered a precursor form of ancient Greek, yes. In terms of culture and civilization, the Mycenaeans were distinct from the later ancient Greeks. When it comes to how genetically similar they were--how physically descended the diverse ancient Greeks were specifically from the Mycenaeans, I don't claim to know. Could be they were "the same" people in a broad sense, could be not so much. :)

Cultures and civilisations evolve as societies evolve. Linear B has been deciphered and found to be Greek. Societies evolved from gene (gentes), fratries and tribes to the class societies of the city states of classical Greece.

Mycenaeans were Bronze Age Greeks. The term "Ancient Greeks" used mostly for Iron Age Greeks and especially for the classic Ancient Greek period because that student in most.

​@@TheNomadicProfessor Recent genetic studies connect the modern Greeks to the Mycenaeans at about 70% genetic similarity. So how much more genetically connected would the 'ancient' Greeks of the classical period have been to their Mycenanean ancestors? Rather more I would say.

If you just say the same thing that everybody has said all along, you will have no reputation as a historian. Whether it is true or not is not the key thing.

Happy birthday!

In the works!

If the Dorians were different from Myceneans and the Mycenean population and culture was destroyed almost totally , how do you demonstrate that they were "Greek" . And were they Greek or Hellenes ?

They spoke Greek. Don't know what you mean by Greek vs Hellene. @@seaman5705

Well - linear A is a sylabic scrypt , Greek alphabet is a aplhabetic script . How do you know alphabetic phoenician script of the classical and ancient Greeks, derived ,because is not the same, from Mycenean sylabic script ? I assume nobody heard what the Mycenian language or Homer's language sounded like . Greeks called themselves Hellenes , they still do . Romans called them Graeci . Did the Myceneans called themselves Hellenes too ?@@thli8472

@@seaman5705 the only Hellines before Trojan war is the Selloi in Donona and Elloi of Achilles so from the Elloi...Ellhnes.Greece mean the old people before Kataklism.we have Greeks(Γρια Γερος=old)in Dodona,Arcadia,Attika=TanaGRAIA...and ftom tanagraia all land(Xalkida,Orchomenos,Thives,Kymh-Cumae) the Romans take the alfabet and gines us the name Greece.all those people...is Pelasgians

@@user-ik9uo8gz4q Very confusing . What I can conclude is that Greeks and Hellenes are not the same thing . Also Pelasgians is a very loose used term . If you can define what Pelasgian means , beyond your legends , will be helpful . For me Greek identity is given by the steppe people , which brought the language and established the first Greek civilization . Without them , there was nothing remarkable about old/Pelasgian/Greeks , whether they were Hunter Gatherers or Neolithic Anatolian farmers .

We know the existence of the Pelasgians from the ancient Greek texts and only from them. Nowhere is it mentioned that the Greeks expelled the Pelasgians from Greece, on the contrary it is stated that they assimilated into the Greek ethnos ,as linguistic studies prove, since many words in the Greek language have a Pelasgian origin. Baptizing Pelasgians other pre-Indo-European people , like the Etruscans , Rhaetians and the poor Otzi the Iceman , is arbitrariness. There are 2 theories .The Pelasgian language was a Greek dialect that saw extensive changes or is an extinct ancient language.

It is not a matter of arbitrariness at all (more a working theory) as there are indeed old stories of the expulsion of Pelasgians in Greek literature, one example is the expulsion of them to the Island of Lemnos, where it is known the inhabitants spoke a non-Indo-European tongue, as per what has been recorded. The Greek language is Indo-European, where as the early inhabitants of the area were not, being early farmer folk. The Pelagian language and that of the Etruscan/Rhaetian is of a similar type,,, suggesting a possible connection somewhere thru the halls of time. Here is one example of a story of expulsion, via Herodotus: In former times, the Athenians lived on the Acropolis and the Pelasgians near the Hymettus, but the Athenians expelled the Pelasgians, who settled on Lemnos. [Herodotus, Histories 6.137.] Also there is old legend, I couldnt lay my hand too the info right at the moment, of a group of Pelasgian going via the sea and arriving at mouth of the Po, which is legend so may or may not have happened.@@wardafournello

@@BenSHammonds Herodotus mentioned that the Pelasgians of Lemnos were originally Hellespontine Pelasgians who they were refugees in Athens but whom the Athenians resettled on Lemnos. Herodotus mentioned that there were even autochthonous Pelasgians of Athens were previously called Cranaoi. Moreover, Herodotus mentioned that the Aegean islanders "were a Pelasgian race, who in later times took the name Ionians" and that the Aeolians, according to the Hellenes, were known anciently as "Pelasgians". The Pelasgians were considered part of the Hellenic ethnos.(The word nation from Latin "natio" has one race with genetic continuity , but ethnos has races with cultural similarity. Roman empire was a militaristic empire , Greek empire was a cultural empire). There was migration of the Pelasgians to the Po River region of Italian peninsula where they probably transferred the Chalkidic alphabet and grammar, and were finally absorbed by the native populations. Etruscans , Rhaetians are indigenous Italic populations.

that was of much interest to me, thank you for the information. The main curiosity that I have is in the early farmer migrations into Europe, and the peoples of this time frame. In Europe at that time we have no written records but in places such as Greece there are written records/stories from long ago and so there may be various mentioning of remnant populations coming from or of the early farmer folk such as on ancient Crete etc. Modern genetic studies are an amazing new way to study the ancients and their migrations, most of the Indo-European steppe peoples having Y chromosome of R1b in most cases, which is a standard haplogroup in modern Europe, where as the Neolithic farmer haplogroup most often was that if G2a, all of this is fascinating and gives us more area for research and study @@wardafournello

They know because Linear B was deciphered in 1950s

first in the first

That is a stretch

@@subiazim4047 don’t forget the winners write their own history

@@NS-mz8gqTo make yourself feel better maybe

-memnon = mind The Mycenaeans ( Achaeans) were Pelasgjans. Homer says calls them Pelasgians as well as the Trojans(Dardanians)

@@subiazim4047 why me,just saying it like it is.There is so much more history that is not available just because the church doesn’t want to share with what they have been hiding in their Walt’s.We still don’t know how the church supported the Nazis during the Second World War let alone all the manuscripts that go all the way back.Releasing it now would show how they have lied to the people all these years.

Before the Greeks we were in Africa

What a nonsense 😊

@@kyriakoszeibekis4829 What is nonsense?

@@user-lf2jh2ru9f the British version of history

@@kyriakoszeibekis4829 Yes, you got everything from the British, including history.

Ok Turkalbanian budalla