@BettyLucille Yes, that's where it came from for me. I don't think I was ever taught that men had 1 less rib, I just thought they did because of that story.
I just learned that too, recently. Kinda made me wonder how many other things I have been lied to about 😂 unraveling religious upbringing is so difficult for me.
Informed Consent is the key word. I went back to school recently at 48 and took human sexuality. I was flabbergasted at the information that I learned because of my purity culture upbringing. I did a project on consent and showed some friends my poster and a few of them cried. It was all new information that they wished they had learned when they were younger. So much pain and silent suffering that was due to purity/rape culture. So sad
I grew up Muslim so I totally understand what it's like being in a patriarchal religion and culture. When I was about 22, I ranaway and joined a cult. It was Scientology. That was a whole different ball game. I left in July 2013. I've recently started therapy and it's been a game changer. Thank you for this fascinating interview. I love your channel. 💜
I have 4 nieces that are stay at home daughters. They are 40 yrs. 36 yrs. 30 yrs. and 24 yrs. They will never be permitted to marry. Their father has complete control over their lives. Sadly, they are extremely prideful.
Woah. That’s so awful. It feels like such a gross thing for a father to keep his daughter at home and control her romantic life like that at such an old age. Actually, any age is weird to me. Then again, I’m speaking through the lens of my own childhood trauma.
I grew up in a very abusive family. We were in church all the time and I could not keep up with all the rules. I remember when I asked to go to college,,, my step mother said Well the only way you can go to college is to get a husband. Went to a private christian college which had so many rules it was crazy. Married a husband who was in a religious cult and finally after years and 5 children I escaped .
What your guest today is describing is guardianship which is the law for women in many Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia. Women need their guardian’s permission to get married, hold a job, get a passport, leave the country, as examples. Women cannot rent or own property and live with their fathers until they marry because they must have a guardian. I find that some Christians choose to follow the same model highly ironic.
Well first of all it's all somehow built on the Bible. First Judaism. After Christianity and later Muslime, also patriarchy is a cultural phenomenon. No matter which religion 😢
Even in Italy in small cities people refuse to sign a contract with a woman who is not married or who doesn't bring another man to sign the contract. My friend told me that yesterday and I was absolutely shocked.
My experience is the complete opposite. Grew up in a missionary house with dad the pastor and head of the house. Homeschooled all my life by my mom. Had the best dad ever, he was so gentle and encouraging. Never yelled or got angry and I miss him every day.
I was homeschooled some times, in Christian schools some times and in public schools some times. When I was a teenager, I was the one who just wanted to get married, have kids and homeschool them. My dad was the one who said that I should go to college and get a "marketable skill" in case my plans didn't work out. It was a good thing I guess, because I"m in my 50's now and never ended up getting married or having children but I've been teaching school for almost 30 years now!
The oldest girl of 8 kids I was homeschooled all my life. We were being abused, and neglected and a lot of us have learning disabilities that never got addressed. I was never tested once in my life so my schooling was self-taught and I was responsible for teaching my younger siblings. I think back on it all and am disgusted that the laws still haven't changed. I hope the more people speak out against the lack of laws around homeschooling that it will change
I’m so sorry to hear that. Thank you for sharing. I know that Cait is working on advocating for homeschooled kids to have mandatory testing and reporting
A father controlling your dating life gives me the ickkk! Like I understand and would always respect my fathers advice if he feels off about a guy I may be dating but to lock you up at home, treat you like a wife in training, and then get a 100% say on your love life is so icky
I learned when i got married as a Catholic, that " Giving away" of a daughter was not a Catholic practice but came from protestant influence. Before this, the couple processed together to the altar showing they were freely choosing to marry without outside force. Most Catholics dont know this, but my husband I walked the aisle together. I was not property to be given. My parents didnt support our marriage and learning this was really freeing. So any Catholics out there getting married...your father doesnt need to give you away! You and your husband are choosing this as free adults and thats what the church actually used to encourage.
In Sweden we also walk together. But after the last decades of Hollywood movies influence there are many that think givning the bridge away is the way it should be.
Actually, that's false, @ratrm this practice has been going on as long as the marriage contracts came about. Since you spoke of the catholic church. Where did the catholic church come from? The Roman's and Greeks of higher classes would do this " giving their daughters away " many even in modern times aren't even at their own wedding . The contracts are facilitated by the elders of the family ( mostly men) women help negotiate the contracts . Before marriage becoming a thing of business but of love then they were free to marry without having to be given away. But the problem with that is no witness. No contract people were able to leave and re marry as often as they wanted, and how do you legitimize the children born of these marriages. The catholic church is one of the oldest organizations in history and has done plenty of atrocities and distorted the words of gd and his prophets
@MegaGraceiscool plenty of places but they are wrong the protestants didn't come up with that trend . The Roman's and Greeks did this way before the protestant reformation even came about.😂
@@ingegerdandersson6963 it comes from Roman/ Greek times when woman and girls were the property to be protected by their fathers until they go to the homes of their husband's ( mostly done by the upper classes) REMEMBER marriage for the upper classes were about business. Family alliances were important. Not saying in the poor communities these things weren't important for survival but it depends on if they were free citizens or not. 😢poor farmers and merchants would try to make their own family alliances to gain more lands . Yes they weren't the only people to do it. Many ancient cultures did in different ways.
@@deedee2284 Canada does education much better than the US. We are hoping to immigrate there in the next few years. We are just in love with British Columbia.
Agree im pretty sure In Australia u have to be checked I'll ask my co worker who was home schooled until yr 10 then did online tafe to get her degree (trades n non uni courses) so she can work. But home school is also used for children in remote communities to far from a school its basically an online and im pretty sure teachers created the learning and they get a teachers email it used to be mailed and via radio pre internet , those children got to boarding school from age 12 anyway
I had a coworker who was fully bought in to this. He talked about being a "homesteader," being in charge of the family as the patriarch, and even started talking about how his daughter was turning 18 and he already had men in mind he wanted her to date and possibly marry. This 18 year old girl was about to date a bunch of guys in their mid 20s. All their kids were home schooled and it was very apparent he had total control of everything they watched, heard, and believed. Unfortunately for them too we work in IT, so he knew how to lock down everything he didn't want them to see online. We had many "debates" as we agreed on literally nothing. I maybe got him to pause and think once when I asked him "your philosphy is great for you, but what about your wife who never has any agency in her own life?." It of course changed nothing.
😞 I am glad that you tried. It's difficult to believe families like this exist. I live in Italy and I don't think it would be easy to live a life like that here...
They see themselves as mini-kings. Of course they will never relinquish that power. It is like a drug to them. All you can do is help the family escape.
I would never homeschool, h*t, or seek to control my children. Children are non "mini mes" to control. I want mine to be exposed to diversity and other cultures. They arent raised with a religion and get to grow up to choose who they are and what they believe in on their own. My husband and I were raised the same way. Our familes are both a mix of different religions(including non religious), cultures, ethnicities, etc. There isnt a right or wrong way for people to be. Morals ard subjective and no one should force their own beliefs on their children. Only a few are objective, like smurder without a reason, grape, abuse, and smolestion. Dont try to say your morals are right and someone else's morals are wrong. You dont get to decide that. If someone does homeschool, they need to make sure it's a great education and make sure their child is exposed to diversity. You cannot keep them to yourself.
I have suffered with OCD since I was a child. Growing up in a devout Mormon home, I remember the guilt and shame for thoughts I didn't want and couldn't control. I tried so hard to find confirmation that my behavior was pleasing to God. I am so happy you have found closure and positive growth. God bless!
My story is reminiscent of this in so many ways. Informed by the Gothard / Bob Jones / Calvanist / etc dynamics described here. At 71 it has been an interesting process of discovering the layers of trauma that I needed to unwrap to find my own identify. My generation did not have the resources that exist today.
I remember my mom taking me to a Christian counselor when I was 13 because she discovered I was self harming. My "homework" for my depression was to count my blessings. Literally to write them down as a list. That was it.
At least your mom tried. Mine said I needed a counselor but wasn't taking me because they would say my parents need to change how they were raising us.
@ratrm it wasn't to try to help me. She literally pulled up my sleeve in front of the counselor and said "fix this". And she would ONLY take me because it was a Christian counselor who wouldn't challenge the way they raised us. I gained nothing but bitterness from that experience.
Wow sounds like they just wanted to dismiss regular teenage issues. All teens go through some trials. It's hard being a teen . That's where your growing and finding yourself
@@Lily_of_the_Forest it's functional but muted. We don't get into anything very deep since I had to put a boundary up that I will remove myself if she starts preaching to me, and her entire existence revolves around religion. But I love her as safely as I can for who she is knowing she will never be anything else.
As a mom, I got chills when she said her message to the adults who raised her! I try really, really hard to step back and let my daughter grow into who she wants to be, not who I see her to be.
Too many parents decide from a very age what their children would be in terms of personality, career and dating life. Even in the secular world. Then you find out that those parents were raised in strict Christian homes and took the brainwashing with them. Even choosing their first names based on their personalities but how can a newborn have a personality? No the names they give to their children are based on the parents' personality. The personality you had at 9 isn't the one you have at 15 even.
What a beautiful lady. It’s like she became pure and wholesome but not in the culty way in which she was raised. I can’t explain it, but it’s like despite her upbringing, she’s so loving in a way the ‘believers’ never could be. She’s loving in a very worldly way without being affected by the negatives of the world. I really can’t explain it, but she has something very unique about her. And I love her Linda listen statement. Another great interview. Thank you ❤
I was breifly homeschooled with Abeka, I had no idea they were fundie homeschool books! My parents were 'normal" christians who wanted to try homeschooling, but they're both well educated,my mom was a teacher, and they figured out really quickly that it would either be severely isolating or give me a subpar fundie education, and enrolled me into public school after a year. My mom worked really hard to teach me, so I was actually able to skip a grade!
I went through Abeka as a kid, too. Not at home, but at a Christian school. I’m fine, lol. It’s not a bad curriculum. I was ahead in math and science when I transferred into the public school.
That would have been an ok environment for homeschooling if continued. I went to an Abeka curriculum high school. Thought it was good enough. My public high schools were not great so not much different.
Homeschool mom here. It's frustrating that people more than often assume that my children must be isolated or part of some controlling religious group. There are many secular homeschoolers out there that are passionate about education. We left the public school system because it's lack of creativity and lack of focus on students'individual needs. Prescribing what and how homeschool parents educate is counter productive. Love the show, just wanted to mention this because this homeschool topic keeps coming up. Homeschooling and flexibility of how my children learn has been lifesaving for our family.
I would never even dare to homeschool my kids. In Finland I don't even one kid that is homeschooled. Teachers are highly educated. They all have University degree. I could never be as good teacher. I was forced to try during covid and I sucked😂 Religious teaching in school one/two hours a week and can be chosen other topic.
Glad you brought this up. I was a homeschooling parent . American public school education is terrible. I pulled my son out of school because he was in the second grade and couldn’t read. Within 4 months of being homeschooled, he was reading at a 6th grade level. All my sons read at a college level by the time they were in the 8th grade. My sons played in community sports and 4 H. It’s too bad that people give homeschooling a bad reputation.
When this wonderful strong woman said she wished she had a lunchbox and a locker tha was her dream, I started balling. When she talked about how she wanted to play piano professional as well it was so heartbreaking. I hope you have found Wonderful people that love you and support you to chase your dream. You deserve it so much. Such a horrible yet beautiful Story. Sending you so much love and healing 💕
Opposite of my dream, I wished desperately to school at home, I found it so tedious, horrible kids, bullying, inappropriate touching, boring subjects. I wanted to be home working at my own pace.. I think it's wonderful there are so many choices for schooling now.
@@Mystlyn26 I am so sorry that happened to you. I was bullied as well. So I took it to the gym and worked like a dog so people wouldn't push me around. I was called a f@g. I am gay but at the time I wasn't out to even myself. Bullying is disgusting:( I hope you have found healing my friend ❤️
My father was amazing. I didn’t find out until after his death, that my mother was intensely jealous of the relationship I had with him, she didn’t even tell me he had died until three days later. There is, even now, a barrier between us - I hope before she dies, she might give me a hug like other people’s mothers.
@@katiempojer You are mistaken ... Unfortunately it is not 'Rare' for fathers to be a very negative controlling influence in the lives of their children.
My old church didn't take communion every week, but when they did I remember praying similar words. Mine was, God forgive me of the sins I don't even remember
Wow, I've never thought I would have heared a story so close to my own. I'm nearly in tears at work because I've never felt this validated. Every time I try to talk about my homeschool fundamentalist upbringing, and how I feel like I was given less because of it its usually been dismissed or rejected. I know I'm smart, but equally I know I could have never pursued the sciences because I have lacked the fundamentals when I was a child. I have a college degree, but that's barely any thanks to my parents. I still struggle with agoraphobia and social anxiety due to being raised in social isolation. And I remember accutly being told that 'it's not that bad' or some flavor of 'that's not abuse' when I was allowed to reach out to a trusted adult and tell them about the abuse I was experiencing at home. Mostly because my family was wealthy and pillars of our community. People just didn't believe me and my sibling were being constantly traumatized because we looked like a perfect family.
I'm so sorry that your efforts to advocate for yourself and speak up were met with rejection. You deserved to be safe and treasured, and it took immense courage to ask for help. I hope that you've found ways to start healing those wounds, and though I know it may not count for much, I believe you. You were not exagerrating. You did nothing to deserve the abuse, and it was indeed abuse. I hope with all my heart that your future will be filled with joy and peace.
@just-a-generic-username thank you for your very kind words :) I'm in a much better place now, and have done a LOT of therapy. I have more or less disowned my parents but have very good relationships with my other family members. It took being an adult for people to start believing me but now they do, and I try to be there for people in return, especially those younger then me (used to work as a teacher, now work at social services). While I wish I could have pursued some things I was never given the chance to do, I do have to say I really like the person I am today :)
I grew up in the radical traditional Catholic movement and my circumstances were almost identical. My parents were loving but they and the church instilled so much fear in me that I have gone through the exact same mental trauma. I was so naively literal that I had convinced myself that I was an awful person and I lived in constant fear of hell… even for just having the wrong thought float through my head. After 15 years of marriage and 8 c-sections, my husband and I managed to crawl out of the insanity. But the mental trauma is still there, Anxiety, depression, scrupulosity, imposter syndrome, on top of recently finding out that I have severe ADHD. I’ve also had PMDD since puberty and my therapist is pretty sure that I have CPTSD as well. I truly understand you and feel for you. It’s so miserable to be ruled by fear. Stay strong!
Homeschooler here: I promise we aren't all this brainwashing of our kiddos. I'm sorry this was your experience and kudos for rising above it. I can see the power in homeschooling and how it can be a blessing or a curse.
Exactly! All 3 of my home schooled children are self-suppoting and highly intelligent: 1st born is a tattoo artist 2nd graduated from Navy boot camp with the Navy Leauge award 3rd is a commercial welder. All are able to communicate with people of all ages.
@@lindawells8167 Some of us would've never gotten an education if it wasn't for Public School. I'm not against homeschool by any means, and it could be a better option for many families, but not everyone has the time, money, energy, ability, or resources to homeschool properly. And some use homeschooling as a cover for educational neglect. Not to mention other countries have better public education systems, which indicates that the problem isn't inherent to public education. Basically, rather than it being a matter of which is better, I think they both have their place and both leave room for improvement policy wise.
1.I literally shuddered when you mentioned Christian Liberty press. I was home schooled for high school (I asked my mom to homeschool me because I was being very bullied). My mother was a very conservative Christian. We did my first year of high school through Christian Liberty academy and used the Christian Liberty books for the curriculum. Even my incredibly conservative mother couldn't handle the BS in those books. They didn't even make any sense. The way they try to shoehorn conservative beliefs and "bible-based" rhetoric into every lesson without bothering to even try to make it a semi-believable or logical drove us crazy. Thankfully we only used that curriculum one year. I can't imagine going through one's entire education with that trash. Thankfully we went with a more secular curriculum the rest of my high school 2. Tampons. I wish I was kidding when I say that my mothers reason for not letting me use tampons was "Once you get used to putting one thing up inside there..." Implying that if I used tampons then that would ultimately lead me to having premarital sex. Purity culture😅
My mother attempted to do this with me. I went on my first date when I was 21. Didn’t move out until I got married at age 26, and even then, my mom did her best to thwart my marriage even attempting to manipulate me into delaying a year. Thankfully my husband is stubborn and was just like, hell no. Not waiting for your mom to come around. (He had the wisdom to sense that would never happen)
Was she trying to stop you from getting married as she doesn't want you to get married and be in the same cycle? My mum was working hard to stop and thwart all my marriages as she really wanted me to "run away." That's all she could do for me. I didn't see it that way. When I was leaving , she gave me all her money and told me to get a degree and be someone 😢....I didn't understand then what she was doing, and it just looked like she was manipulating me. She really couldn't get away from him and the whole community.
@@tarrysmileyour mom was scared you were going to not go down the path she wished she did go down..I guess because she wish she had a degree so just in case she could get out..she was worried for you..and she’s correct always have a backup plan. Thanks for sharing ❤ I’m sure you realize that now
In Germany homeschooling is not allowed at all. To become a teacher here you need a Bachelor or a Master degree, ,depending in which kind of school you will be teaching. For the school that gives students the opportunity to go to University a Master's degree is mandatory. Then you can teach two, maybe three subjects. Compare that to a homeschool mom, who "teaches" every subject for every grade. The immense difference in quality is obvious.
She speaks alot about things that I've repressed in my memories. I remember wanting to wear tampons but I was told that it would break my hymen. I even felt guilt for having crushes on "worldly" guys.
I remember the weaponization of doubts and anxiety in a biblical framework. Made decision-making sinful, so when someone else decided for you there was relief and a grooming to surrender to others' decisions or hastily make your own.
This makes me so sad. I homeschool my children because the public (and private) education system is so effed up. I refuse to use Christian based programs for science and social studies. My children are provided tons of social interactions with children of all ages. I give them opportunities to learn from other adults. They learn at their own pace and study what interests them. This sounds vastly different from your experience. Not all homeschool is bad. Thank you for sharing your story.
Are you unschooling? That's what we do with my grandchildren, and I am a public school teacher of over 36 years. And because I am a teacher of over 36 years, we unschool! Broken system.
@@LauraBeard-cz4nj No, we don’t unschool. We pick what curriculum works best for each subject and with the way my son learns. Lots of opportunities for exploration.
I’m sorry there are so many people defending their homeschooling experiences rather than acknowledging your story. Your pain & struggles are real. Thank you for sharing.
Really loved this conversation. Cait, thank you so much for sharing your story, it feels like we were raised in such adjacent homes. My dad was also a super controlling man who treated his children like mindless puppets and healing from that is a crazy journey.
This is a rant/ away to get this off my chest because I had a flashback a few nights ago. I was homeschooled. It wasn’t like her story. I definitely lacked a lot of things. My mom didn’t believe in learning disabilities I have diagnosed dyslexia but undiagnosed adhd. My mom has told a story of how she knew I was dyslexic from a young age and how incredible it was to see me “fix” it myself. I was never told and I was severely disciplined harshly extreme spanking,(levels of being bruised) things taken away,(90% of my stuff taken away), emotionally abused via being insulted, or threatening to sell my stuff to kids who needed it more. Depression wasn’t a thing I was allowed to have because I was too young to have it. If my mom had known about these it would have helped so much. My mom would do spelling in the car and I could mentally spell out words or fully read 3-5 syllable words on my own. Or I didn’t know how to read words I had seen before. I would get yelled at for not knowing. I think my mom now realizes her mistakes but I don’t trust her with secrets because she’ll tell the rest of my family. She told secrets to everyone and I currently don’t trust her anymore with my personal secrets. I have no way to end this rant but this is how it’s going to end. I know it’s pointed in my mom’s faults. My dad didn’t help he did do spankings but as I grew older I realized that spankings was his only took he knew how to discipline kids. My dad didn’t help with anything but I don’t have as much emotional or physical abuse from him.
I'm only partway through and already relate. I'm so thankful my mom didn't homeschool me (which my fundamentalist preacher father pushed for). Public school is the only thing that told me that women can contribute in more ways than just pushing out babies and being subservient. I recently helped a woman run for Congress, and intend to help on her next run. Women deserve a voice.
Her father was a typical religious fanatic who subscribes to the "I lived my life, now I want to live yours" mentality. Life is too short. Don't let someone else live your life.
I homeschool my kids and I am also a stay at home mom. As far as the stay at home mom thing I really think it comes down to choice. If it’s forced onto someone than that’s on a different spectrum and that’s different. As far as homeschooling it can be done in the right way. But I’ve also seen it done for all the wrong reasons. Where kids are being abused or when it’s done for religious parents to shelter the children. Again, that’s not the right reason to homeschool.
@@nancimanuele4129 and if you don't abuse your kids regulations and checks shouldn't bother you. Ans actually knowing that those kids that are abused, and go unnoticed while kept away from mandatory reporters, would be saved from those situations, should be something everyone wants
@@silmuffin86 "the problem is the lack of regulations" A problem is the lack of regulations. Unfortunately, the bigger problem is that 'Home Schooling' will always appeal to the very parents that should NEVER be allowed to do it.
Homeschooler( with Abeka) missionary kid, and married now and still an independent, fundamental Baptist. I had the absolute best childhood. My parents loved us so much and gave us everything they had. I’m so sorry for all the abuse people have endured, and these things should be called out and never swept under the rug. However, I just have to say that the Bible never once condones abuse. These are MEN who have taken God’s words and twisted them and made a god of themselves. The Bible says that men should love their wives and provoke not their children to wrath. And on the homeschool side, I graduated high school and college with honors. Scored very well on the ACT. I had an amazing education, and I’m so thankful for my godly, loving parents and I will shout it from the rooftops. So much of what I am seeing is man made garbage, and it’s not in the Bible. Yet it is being blamed on God. In the words of one of my favorite songs, “Though some may be content to just sit by, I for one must stand and testify. That’s my God, and I love Him. That’s my Jesus. He died for me. For all the world to hear, I’ll say it loud and clear. That’s my God.” ❤️
So true I’ve been involved in an extreme cult and I found Jesus from coming out of it. Actually after I was kicked out. Then I went into pentecostalism, charismatic religion. That felt unsafe too and triggering from the previous cult. I eventually left organised religion altogether but Jesus came with me. He’s so beautiful and cults are nothing Godly at all. In fact they’re a man made copy
Wow. She is so brave. To break away from that. Both of you are fantastic! I love this channel. I think so many people are in their own mental prison with or without others putting them there. These stories are so good to help us recognize whatever prison we are in. Thank you for your work.
I love how she talks about the library and community college being integral to her mental/emotional freedom. ❤ My mom got us out of a fundie-type church when I was still very young, so I did not experience the level of abuse and educational neglect that she did. But libraries have always been so special to me. No matter what I was going through, I could be curious, imaginative, and peaceful at the library. And my community college's library was where I learned about proper research methods. Still makes me happy just thinking about it.
It's so common in these stories, give people access to information and they want more. There's a reason social movements and mobility exploded with the invention of the printing press
I found your channel about two months ago. It has become one of my favorite channels. I love your content. Keep doing everything that you were doing. Thank you for giving these women a platform to share their stories.
Mandatory reporting, equal education, and social interaction is SO important! Great job both of you for bringing this very important subject to light! ❤
It's nice to folks talking about family cults. So much of what I've heard from the past two guests has reminded me of my childhood. We weren't in a cult, we just had parents who dreamed back to the supposed good old days.
It makes me so upset that these evil people use God as an excuse and reason to do all these things. All these rules put on people and making women and girls to be treated as less than is NOT what God wants. He wants a relationship not rules. He loves us. I'm so sorry for all these precious children and women who are treated this way. I had no idea these family "cults" are going on.
Hello, Shalise!! I hope motherhood is treating you well. I’m an ex JW who really wants to tell my own story somehow, and videos like this remind me why. We have to shed a light on this kind of thing here, so it doesn’t keep happening. Sending you and your family a big hug!! ❤
I'm obsessed with your channel! Such amazing, inspiring stories and so Important to shed a light on these heinous organizations and individuals and provide a resource for the public but more importantly other people who have suffered similar abuse! Thank you so much :)
I grew up in a home where I was taught we as woman are to submit to male authorities! I believe this led to me being SA as a child ! I don't blame my parents at all. The individual that assaulted me is to blame. However, the idea that young ladies/ woman have very voice over their own bodies and minds in every culture is a common thread that should be addressed more often. Thank you for sharing your experience ❤
From all these videos ( I love the channel) I can conclude that ( us) women are SO POWERFUL based on all the attempts to suppress,dumb down and control us in ALL of these "religions". We are so much more powerful, impactful and capable than we know!
This kind of patriarchy infuriates me. Even in Biblical times women had jobs and worked alongside their husbands. There is nothing in the Bible that forbids women from working outside the home. In fact, many women in those times DID. As for a woman's responsibilities - does not Genesis say she is a "helpmeet?" That means PARTNER The whole thing about women being submissive all relates back to Adam and Eve with the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. That is Old Testament - and not even fully interpreted correctly by many of these groups. Then there is also the fact that Jesus himself - you know, the person on whom the entire religion of Christianity is founded, restored women to their place as EQUALS. He spoke to women he didn't know, in public, at a time when the culture had evolved n such as way that men didn't speak to women hardly at all, much less a stranger in public. He treated the women who followed him the same as he did the men. He spoke with them, taught them. answered their questions, and treated them as equals and partners to men, not servants. If they want to preach Biblical principles and continue to call themselves "Christians" I think they should go re-read their Bibles, and consider THAT part.
Thank you. I get a bit annoyed when these super conservative religions are seen as the only form of Christianity. My favorite verse is Galatians 3:28 " . . . there is neither male nor female for you are all one in Christ Jesus".
Proverbs 31 wife had strong arms from her WORK. She invested, she sold merchandise, she was a farmer. It's just hot garbage and an excuse to put women down. The only time women are "second" is in marriage, where it supposed to be a free choice and given to a man who is equally commanded to love you more than himself and to put you first. It should never feel oppressive if he follows his end - someone has to be the final say and it should be a bigger burden to carry that responsibility because if he acts badly he has to answer to God for it.
@@katieociardha2196 Even historians and anthropologists talk about the evidence around what kind of work women did. I completely agree with you about the final say and the bigger burden. It also means that he is supposed to take HER thoughts and suggestions into consideration in the process. I loathe how patriarchy misrepresents it all and caters to the male ego at the expense of everyone who is not them. That's the opposite of what marriage is supposed to be. I could go on all day about this. Thank you for adding that scripture and explanation. We need more of that.
@@interlocution6619hi, I’m an anthropology student and can confirm that outside of upper middle class white women in the 40s-70s, and outside of the upper 1% of society, all women have always worked. On farms, as maids, as wetnurses, as spinners, weavers, milkmaids, shopkeepers, etc. Women usually married men from the same trade as their fathers, and therefore the woman would have grown up either helping her father with his work or helping her mother run their shop. The general model was the man was the craftsman or worker and the wife was the seller or refined the raw materials into the final product. Think of fishwives, their husbands caught the fish and they sold the fish. With farmers, which a majority of people were, the man would tend the farm and harvest the goods, and the wife would take the milk, wool, crops and fruits ans turn them into cheese, butter, yarn or cloth, and jams or flour or whatnot. Women and men have always worked side by side because until the past 100 to maybe 200 years, the jobs humans did NEEDED more than one pair of hands, which is also why farming families had so many children.
I had the same thing happen. Though 3 years later my dad told him before he told me that he could marry me. I had nothing to do with my courtship and I still struggle with it all and we just passed out 25th anniversary. It has been far from easy.
my background is so, so similar to Cait’s. i had a little more socialization but was a lot more educationally neglected. her story resonates so much with me, and i feel so lucky to have gotten out of my parents’ house when i was 18.
Stay at home daughters is not just a belief held by this cult. Obviously, my church didn’t teach this, but several members heavily criticized my parents and other parents for allowing their daughters to go away to college and live alone. The implication was that we couldn’t be guaranteed to be pure virgins anymore because we had left the oversight of our fathers and so they wouldn’t ever “allow” their sons to marry us.
So proud of you for sharing your story, Cait! It's been a long road letting things go. I'm glad I got to know you and that we've both been able to move away from those toxic beliefs. Your friend, Skittles. 😉
My life, this is how I was raised. Calvanist. No make up, couldn't cut my hair after the age of 13 or shave my legs until I was 16, belt used as punishment, had to wear dresses or skirts to a country public school (think church clothes)... and so much more. But I wasn't a "good" daughter because I rebelled. But all three of my fathers oldest told him absolutely no to chosing our spouces. Also, the whole communion thing, I remember the feeling of being scared to take it, and being scared of not taking it. I haven't had a relationship with my father in over a decade but I still deal with the effects of the abuse, anxiety, ptsd, and depression is no joke.
I grew up in the PCUSA, which is the liberal branch of the Presbyterian church. I always felt safe, valid, and welcome as a queer woman. It’s so interesting to hear about the PCA and how different the culture is, even though a lot of the theology is similar.
I meant “don” the name Presbyterian, not dion. Also, it might be interesting to view a sort of branch chart to see what sects and divisions occurred over time within the name “Presbyterian.” I’ve seen one of those charts once on the Amish and Mennonites. It was interesting to me because as I recall, it showed that the Amish (followers of Ammon or whatever his name was), broke off from the followers of Menno (the Mennonites) rather than the other way around, as I had previously thought. It’s always interesting to know and guess which one is or was “the real McCoy..”. Also interesting to observe is the denominational and just religious antagonisms and ridicule between intellectualism and the “just-believe-it-because-it’s-in-the-Bible” sorts. That can get real “Hatfields vs McCoys” sometimes. Depending on the subject at hand, I could be on either side of the gem fence there, and also sometimes I think the intellectuals can be arrogant and compassionless. But so can the others, too!!! (Obviously!). My beliefs however tell me to be pretty much totally merciful towards those who “walk in darkness” and have never had access to certain truths. Of course everyone has their unique perspectives though, of the particular travesties they’ve seen in life, and then that sets them up for their future of what sorts of snake pits and all that they want to avoid. Some of these cults are major snake pits, and on the inside looking out, individuals come to know that. Then the grass looks greener everywhere else. No where is perfect. Evil lurks everywhere. Sometimes it locks in and gets worse and compounds on itself, like when individuals are seen more like objects than other human beings. Okay I’ve said enough, I think. Until I think of something else, anyway.
I grew up in the PCA, and I really want to hear more people talk about it. I've stopped going to church for a couple years now because I just couldn't reconcile their teachings with what I learned in therapy (and Christian therapy at that!). My mom just doesn't get it and keeps asking me to come back when they get a new pastor (the other one just pissed me off too much). Idk how to tell her that I disagree with so much of the PCA's views that I can't go back no matter who the pastor is
Homeschooling mom here! There are so many resources for homeschoolers now and tons of co-ops and communities. I know this guest had a valid and horrible experience with "homeschool". I think the vast majority of homeschooling families do it responsibly. Its becoming more common and there is so much support. Homeschoolers have much more freedom to explore their own interests and learn what is really exciting to them. No matter what curriculum you use, there will be a bias whether you're in public school, private school or homeschool.
Always a bias. Always an indoctrination. Always a slant. You are correct. It doesn't matter if the family, individual, or school is religious or secular, conservative or liberal.
I know that there are good homeschool families out there, but when I hear the word "homeschool," it makes me cringe. I was a GED teacher for many years, and I had so many older teens and adults come into class to work on skills for the GED test. The first thing we did was test what they needed to learn to pass the test. Some of these adults tested at 2nd grade levels for reading, math and other subjects. It hurt my heart to tell them the results of their intake tests. If you want to homeschool your kids, please be educated yourself, first.
@@monkfruit2389 We took in anyone over 16 with a "permission slip" from a school, and anyone over 18 who wanted to attend. The testing levels just showed where they were starting from and gave us a starting point to begin working with them. It's actually a brilliant system because if you come in knowing all your math, but lack reading skills, we'd just focus on that instead of making you sit through a required math class. The intake test we used could also pinpoint exactly which skills were needed, for example if you needed to study fractions or how to find the main point in a reading passage, etc. Before teaching GED, I thought anyone could get one. Not so. 60% of graduating high school seniors could not pass the GED test, yet they are being given a diploma. People with a GED diploma are smart cookies!
Thank you for sharing your story. I grew up the same way. When you spoke about communion, wow that was me!! I grew up with so much stress and trauma from spiritual abuse. I identify with you in so many ways. I thank God for Christian professional therapist that I went to for years as an adult and have been able to work on a lot of the trauma and heal from it and be free. Thank you again for sharing your story
The reason she was scared at communion is because she didn't believe the true Gospel. God paid for your sins if you believe in the work Jesus did on the cross and resurrection and you will understand you don't have to work for your sins any more
I was a homeschooling parent. I put together my own curriculum. I used Saxon Math. I taught my children how to read using The Phonics game. We went to the library and checked out history books. My children were all avid readers. My sons went to our local community college to take science and math in the 9th grade. Not all of us homeschoolers are extreme. I went to school overseas and had a great education. The American School system sucks and this is why I pulled my kids out of public school and homeschooled.
Wow…. I think I may need therapy. Listening to this story and comparing notes, I realized that I was also raised with a lot of cult mentality. This is like an exact description of my childhood.
I’d definitely call the courtship thing an arranged marriage. Ultimately, it’s your father’s decision. It doesn’t matter if you can technically say no when you’ve been raised to never say no.
No... Biblical arranged marriage doesn't have this weird courtship thing. This would just falling into arranged courtship or dating than arranged marriage.
While I don’t love everything about Pennsylvania, the homeschooling laws are great! Also, we did all kinds of activities outside the home (our son is very social). He has volunteered several places and even had a job (from 15-17). He had his evaluation and got his diploma on Tuesday, turns 18 on Saturday, and has a job interview tomorrow afternoon.♥️
OMG, let’s be real homeschooling in less than 2% of the scenarios are not about teaching a certain child but more about indoctrination and grooming and isolating children. It’s lonely and isolating and it’s about control. We could argue about the environment of a local or community school and there are downsides to that as well. They can be academic or social, but the goal of school and community is about learning social skills as well as educational skills so the very definition of homeschooling means it’s about isolation and about only allowing , social interactions of anyone other than you and your family to be the metric by which all relationships are based.
Cait's story and others recently on the channel have made me reflect a lot on both the good and bad of my own religious upbringing. I love that Cait mentioned community college, too, because for me that played a big part in widening my perspective and starting to empower myself.
I’m proud of having homeschooled my kids for 13 years, and of how that worked out for them. However, we did “Christian homeschooling” for exactly one year of that. That was NOT the education I wanted for my kids.
My upbringing was adjacent to this, and I have cousins who are stay-at-home daughters. It’s heartbreaking. Cait’s story brought up a lot of my past and shone a light on some things I hadn’t fully realized. I don’t remember my parents explicitly forbidding us from having crushes or romantic emotions, but it was absolutely the standard and expectation. Thank you for sharing the episode. I feel very seen through Cait’s story.
