@@tobaliciousholland12 For sure, but the guys asked him if he was a hustler. After watching him perform pool magic tricks before asking if they wanted action, they wouldn't have been hustled as much as throwing their money away.
@@vladimir9983 His last role was a random shouting priest in an episode of 'Father Ted' although apart from Star Wars he was best known for 'The Land that Time Forgot' MST3K even put in a nice Jabba line when they riffed the film.
stclairstclair it’s a curse if I see it I have to watch it. I say no but the hand clicks the remote anyway no way to count how many times I have seen this movie.
@@seankock7649 Chaos theory certainly plays a role, especially in a game of pool. Even in the exact same circumstances, it would be close to impossible to create the same game. Try it out with a single shot. Place two balls in the exact same place and shoot to hit one. Repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and you will see that not once, not once, not even after thousands of times, will the shot be exactly the same as a previous one. It almost physically impossible.
@@arcticwolf9332 What if robotic precision was in action? Having the power to rewind time means there is no chaos, one would know the outcome. Human flaw makes you correct but controlled robotics would crush your Choas theory.
As much as I like pool, the film was just fine without this scene. I'm glad that I got to watch over 2 minutes of this lost scene :) Thank for posting.
I like this scene, it makes sense that Phil would kill time by constantly playing pool, also I like how Phil says he's seen those guys every day even though they've never seen him, like he's daring them to figure out what he is but he knows it's beyond them. And Murray's performance conveys how he's come to see this town as a prison.
" And Murray's performance conveys how he's come to see this town as a prison." That's what could have gotten this into the movie - add this to a despair sequence.
@@jefflittle8913 Murray wanted the movie to be much darker and philosophical and Ramis wanted it lighter. The conflict over it caused a rift in their relationship for about 20 years.
I could definitely imagine him playing pool over and over with no one ever interacting with him in the slightest, until on one day he happens to be just good enough that these guys walk up and talk to him. He'd probably jump for joy simply by seeing something change... and then quickly grow bored of it because now that he's so good at pool he can't help BUT trigger the conversation. He's clearly spoken these exact words with them many times over, and it's implied that he memorized those basketball statistics BECAUSE they asked him to bet on them. The first time they said "Basketball" he probably replied "Okay. Same time tomorrow, we'll talk basketball" and spent the next few days/weeks memorizing that day's basketball stats Biff Tannen style.
Decent scene, but I think the reason it didn't make the cut was because the "Jeopardy" scene made the point even more clear, was funnier, and was much quicker.
@Crimson Yes, but we get the same information when he's giving the Jeopardy answers, and we see him improving at something over time with the piano lessons. This scene doesn't provide anything to the story that isn't covered better elsewhere.
Looked out of place. Too long to set up properly with no payoff. (With the piano lesson you see his improvement). And it had nothing to do with becoming a better person.
I actually think this scene was designed to fill two roles at once. It both shows how much time has passed for him and indicates that at this point in the story he DOES NOT care about growth or even doing well on this particular cycle. The implication is that he HAS hustled these people properly before, and indeed has probably figured out that they bet on baketball before and fleeced them there (this time he chased them off by quoting specific outcomes for multiple games, indicating he has some inside track on sports and scaring them off. The goal here was really showing his apathy as much as his competancy. And while things like the jeopardy scene or piano lessons showed learning, things like the drunk driving scene, the suicidal chase scene with the groundhog, and the string of suicides showed his moments of despair. This does tie both concepts together well...but the tone is different. Its less sardonic humor and more pure vitriol. This scene shows Bill's character as having fallen to not only being in despair, but bitter and mean spirited about his situation. That, I believe more than anything, is why they cut the scene.
tnerb tnerb it feels complicated enough for late in the film but amoral enough for early. Structurally, I imagine it only could fit just before the depression sets in, but it isn’t dark enough for that
I love your theory over most others in the comments. I don't think the implication that he's hustled them before is necessarily everything, and I don't think this scene has to be about despair. Consider the following: This scene shows Phil improving: he has mastered pool. He is not hustling (faking poor skill and then playing good when money is on the line). I had initially figured he was just bored and had spent so much time watching sports (Knowing him, probably to distract himself) while he played pool. Thinking more, it's possible that they had fucked with (hustled) HIM on previous days: they look at eachother after seeing what he pulled off and suddenly don't want to play. They're in a POOL HALL. Phil's playing at a master level, which indicates years of practice. Years. Think about what could happen between Phil and those 2 in YEARS. He probably did this yesterday. And the day before. He probably did this for a week... Or maybe, he's so apathetic and rattling the facts off because he JUST wants to play pool and this is the easiest way to get those 2 hustlers to piss off. This scene doesn't have to be all bad.
@@logicphile6207 Also very possible. There's no real way to know what's going through his mind in this scene (without more context its impossible). But between the mean spirited vibe that seems to cut through the scene and the fact that it adds little to the narrative...you can see why, good scene or not, they ultimately cut it.
Why would he hustle? He doesn't need money. When he goes to bed at night, he wakes up reset, with the same money he had the morning before. Unless he could spend the money immediately it's pointless and I'm sure he'd have much quicker ways to get a nice sum of money if that's the case. He probably has gone inside all homes, knows where their cash is, when the owners are out, etc. Doesn't take an hour of pool including setting the hustle up to make some cash.
@@redavatar Well he does demonstrate a need for quick cash to get some things done in the limited time he has for the day, but he already found a much simpler solution: swiping a carelessly ignored bag of money off an armored car (watch the scene, its great). No you're right, the only reason to hustle here would be out of sport or boredom...more indications of him becoming more bored, depressed, and jaded. Probably too jaded for the scene to stay.
I believe the original script called for a scene where he goes to the library, takes a book off the shelf, and reads one page. Then you would see him (via fades) go through that book, one page a day. And then the whole library aisle. Basically the original idea is that he's stuck in there for hundreds of years. Maybe a little too dark? It certainly explains the suicide attempts.
Sonam Adinolf something like that. It was the library at the bed and breakfast (in the film, there are shelves in the dining room, but they didn’t end up using Phil’s ‘calendar’) He estimates that they would last him 20-30 years and then he would celebrate his ‘birthday’ and he claims to be 263 years old. I. He second revision of the script by ramis Phil tells Rita he has been waiting for her for ten thousand years, but that could be taken as hyperbole rather than a literal count-and ramis himself suggested that Phil was in the loop for 30-40 years
@@robertegblack . That's absolutely intriguing and hideous. But wouldn't he have gone totally insane after about a year? (I've done certain jobs for a couple of months and thought I'd die of it!)
I read something like that, too. For all the skills he developed (pool, piano, trivia) he probably was reliving the same day for over 30 years. It freaked me out!
@NinjaRider777R No way did he become proficient at piano, ice sculpting, pool, medicine, etc. in 10 years. Ramis was right 30-40 years is more like it.
@NinjaRider777R Yeah Ramis did saw that, then he reflected on the script and the realities of life and said it was 30-40. I don't think I would care to do anything from 6 am to midnight or later, 7 days a week, for 10 years straight. Even living in groundhog day hell that would be a little much.
The thing I felt sadly got left out by not including this scene, was the fact that as he said "I've played here for Months." and how exceptionally skilled he is, as it really puts into perspective, how long he actually spent in that loop.
one thing thats fun to think about is he probably killed all the people in that town, constantly multiple loops in multiple ways cause there is no consequence just like how we do in games when we can go back to another save
I'm not a big movie goer but I randomly came across this movie one evening while I lived in Korea. It was broadcast on a Japanese TV station in Korea, in English, with Japanese subtitles. I'd heard about the movie years ago and thought I'd watch it and if it turned out boring I'd switch the channel. Turns out.. it was/is definitely my kind of movie. Definitely one of my favorites of all time.
Does anyone else think that Phil, in what was almost certainly decades, if not centuries within the loop, did venture outside Punxsatawney after a while? After all, the blizzard only came that afternoon. If he jumped out of bed at 6AM, grabbed some clothes, and used what cash/resources/stealing abilities he had to pay his way to the airport, he could jet his way to literally anywhere in the world, having several hours to use having fun, meeting people, learning languages and cultures, having any number of adventures that freed him from the monotony of that small town from time to time.
Cool, thanks! I'm going to check out your site. I had some theories a while back, having to do with the colors and things visible in the background (like the red, blue and yellow flags during the Ned scene), but can't remember what they were. Also wanna point out the tree-falling kid is in the hospital with a broken leg when Phil is there asking about the old man. Finally, why does Fred take Debbie's last name? Phil introduces them in the diner as Debbie Kleiser and her fiancee Fred, but at the dance, introduces them as Fred and Debbie Kleiser. Maybe they had the same last name, like the Roosevelts? Maybe it was Ramis' commentary on incest in small-town Pennsylvania??? There really needs to be a full-length documentary on this film, like "Room 237" was for The Shining. :)
One is a friend of mine named Kurt Naebig. Remember he said that Bill would always adlib his lines. When he found out he didn't make it he received a clip of this and was very understanding and quite happy. Bill is a legend and Kurt has done other parts in movies and plays and has been doing this for since he was young. Funny this popped up on my timeline and want to say thanks so much for sharing.
I think an interesting sequel would be, old Phil revisits the town (with his wife of many years), and comes across an erratic individual who is now stuck in the loop. The movie is from the point of view of the new looper who must reveal to Phil everyday what is happening and how Phil and his wife try to help.
@@porc1429 Part way through the film, they come upon a discovery that might bring Phil into the loop, in order to stop it together. He knows what the risks are, but courageously bids goodbye to his non-looping wife and begins looping with the individual. Phil's willingness to sacrifice his timeline to save the looper breaks the spell for both of them. Needlessly convoluted plot twist: Though Phil and the original looper are stuck in a time loop, Phil has his own loop. He must re-explain to the other looper each day that he's a fellow looper now.
@@robb233 I enjoyed the movie, but what if there was a remake and instead of the main actor just ‘being a dick’ he was a bad bad man, rapists, serial killer, thief, murderer etc.
That was an awesome scene. It really also helps enforce just how many loops he lived through, which according to Harold Ramis was way, way more than you'd have guessed from what the movie shows.
Unessacery as this scene is to the movie, it does give you a good idea as to how many times Phil has been re-living the same day since it would take almost an entire lifetime to be this good at pool.
Not at all, I was at least this good and it only took me 2-3 years, it is all a matter of dedication to your craft and how hard you work at it, and how much time you are willing to put into it. So, 2-3 years, 7 days a week, 14-16 hours a day, simple.
Great scene but that is not a hustler! A hustler plays poorly at first for small money until others believe he sucks, then the big money is put down, at that point he plays to his ability and wins!
there are other ways to hustle but none of them is playing like you're God, otherwise how would you sucker someone to put up their own money to play you?
A few years back I was working from home on Groundhog Day and a local station was doing a Groundhog Day marathon, so I saw the movie end-to-end like 6 times in a row.
I would watch any and every scene filmed for Groundhog Day. I seriously think it's the best movie I've ever seen, and that Bill Murray, the rest of the cast, all the writers and directors deserve all the awards for great filmmaking. This is a great scene. It wouldn't have been left out of the final cut of the movie unless they had way too many great scenes to choose from.
The funny thing is, pool is a game where it doesn't matter if you keep replaying the day over and over. Every single game will be different. Obviously he will get better the more he plays, but he won't know each shot before they happen, like he does with everything else.
After a few thousand times playing the same practice pool game, wouldn't his shots be the same after a while? There was no opponent to create a random ball placement. It's all him.
@@jeffgreen3376 No, because it's an action that can't be exactly replicated. If it could, then every single professional pool player, would have the same game every single time. Now there are ways to make it as close as possible though. For example, if every game that he played, his opponent racked the balls and he only played one game a day, at the exact same time. That would get the same rack. He would also have to have his opponent break every time, as that is the shot that would change the most. But even by doing so, the game would still be different later on. As muscle memory is almost impossible to replicate exactly. But with him not having an opponent, every single game would be different
@@alexh8613 I think you're reading too much into it. First of all, it's just a movie and it can't really happen. Second of all, it's just a movie and it can't really happen. Third of all .... lol
@@jeffgreen3376 From a character development standpoint, it makes sense that he would play pool. In a world where he knows the outcome of every single event, he would play a game that would have a different outcome every single time
It's the kind of scene that's easily cut. It's quite self-contained, which means it doesn't do much to drive the story forward. All it would have done is add a little more to the audience's awareness of how long Phil has been stuck in the loop. It would have been difficult for Harold Ramis, and one would imagine also Bill Murray, to convey, in 100 minutes, without spoonfeeding the audience with captions or other conceits, just how long it takes for Phil to break the cycle. Given all of the things Phil learns to do, as well as the effect it has on his mental health, he would have been reliving the day for decades.
This is a movie that should have been made a 6 hour long episode tv show. Too bad. We could have had so much more. Could have had the depressing Groundhog Day we deserved.
I loved that they kept the piano scenes. It is realistic that someone would improve in piano by practicing everyday. I tell retiring people at my work to take up piano now that they have 8 hours of free time every day they didn't have before.
i started playing at 28 when a customer gave me an old piano they didn't want anymore, and loved it, i learned moonlight sonata note by note, just commited it to muscle memory. so i can play it for people and they think im really talented, i'm not, but it's fun to let them believe it. i would encourage anyone to learn piano, nothing has ever helped me to escape "the now" like playing the piano.
@@RazaXML They were just showing the comedic and ironic effect of someone taking too much credit for very little effort. The entire final day scene was sorta like that and even Phil acts in a like manner at points.
Dear Robert E G Black: Thank you, for sharing this gem. Wow! I love this clip! And Bill Murray is so cool! Why would they leave this classic gem out of the film?
Well, no, he's not. A hustler makes you feel like you're going to beat him, then beats you and takes your money. A hustler does not show up and immediately make you realize you can't possibly beat him, causing you not to play with him at all.
Yeah, I see what you mean. You're right. I think the point of the scene was to help show how long he'd been stuck living the same day over & over. Pool was just one more skill that he had time to acquire. Guess they deleted the scene cause they felt it wasn't necessary to make the point again. Looks like it was in the final cut for quite awhile cause the sound & editing are both complete.
The one big thing this scene did add to the film was an idea of how much time he spent just playing pool , months, more like years from the way he was playing and how he was able to pick the basketball games out of the air like that.
Loved it but as per earlier comments not needed. A great film and one of my favourite comedies. Boy imagine being stuck in that time loop - all the fun you could have and make love to all the nice women. However my time loop consisted of getting up around six for 38 years to catch the train before I retired to more local work. 'It's quite likely that on one of the days I heard 'I got you Babe' on the radio as I was getting ready.
Most people are saying they should have deleted it because it doesn't fit with the movie, but I disagree. It doesn't fit because it's unedited. There's no sound mixing, no music, no detailed cuts, just rolling cameras and dialogue. I bet if it were put in, it would be seamless
no people realize its uncut material.. it would've been fine in the movie of course. However it was matched with a better idea with the jeopardy scene which gets to the point quicker and snappier. This one has no pay off at the end unlike the jepordy scene where he is proven to be correct almost instantly.
This is a scene that would have worked in a less optimistic cut. Total stranger comes in, is better than you at everything, seems to be able to see the future, knows you inside and out - and is weirdly unhappy about it, like he doesn't WANT to be any of that but is resigned to it.
